Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[JDMKING13]

The Audi R8 will power-over on FM3 through Suzuka's hairpin, but only if you clip the rubbing strip on turn-in. Considering the RWD cars are pretty spot-on, it's a shame the 4WD cars have been botched.

Exactly you will see me get loose only once I hit the zebras. Its been like that since FM1. Again i'm not hating on it I still play it sometimes, but I just find it odd.

 

[Akira AC]

Well after analysing the situation I can conclude a couple of things:

1. Devedander is complete right,both DLC and game marketing don't care about the fan base,simply because the fan base are fans therefore they will buy anything they release,FM fans were GT fans who got tired of waiting and liked the FM concept.

By the other hand the regular buyers will take they option that they like the most so its all down how the game looks and how the people will respond to the game,I have to say that this whole "standard" car issue will become an the negative thing that will spoil the game,so for regular buyers will be something to think about but although the pluses against their competitor are a lot,an awful lot.

2. GT5 even if its delayed will be a mayor success for Sony,it just will(not being a fanboy its the truth), because all fanbase its almost all racing game market and they show GT5 as a piece of flesh to a hound of wolves,which got tired of waiting but never got tired of expectations.

Initially I though that GT5 will be another Duke nukem forever project,it was so high in expectations that something like it will never be completed,but I was wrong about this because they are releasing it as "a work in progress" aiming their mayor goal towards GT6.

I try to analyse what it seems to be the only mayor fault on GT5,at the end fans will hide this fact and regular users will not care.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy I'm just trying to understand fanboism and marketing,which seems to be a very good business, I wish to make a game of those dimensions and not a stupid earthquake simulator.

 

[VXR]

[/B]

Exactly you will see me get loose only once I hit the zebras. Its been like that since FM1. Again i'm not hating on it I still play it sometimes, but I just find it odd.

Don't worry. That's how I found GT4, when cars simply refused to power-oversteer, including a more powerful variant of a car I've experienced power-oversteer in!

EDIT: The Mine's GT-R has just power-oversteered for me easily on Kaido, in second.

 

[Devedander]

Well after analysing the situation I can conclude a couple of things:

1. Devedander is complete right,both DLC and game marketing don't care about the fan base,simply because the fan base are fans therefore they will buy anything they release,FM fans were GT fans who got tired of waiting and liked the FM concept.

Exactly... look at this forum... pretty much no one here is going to not buy GT5 short of the price going up 10x or KY actually coming over and slapping your mother in the face.

The hardcore fans are simultaneously the hardest to actually chase away, the smalled demographic and the hardest to truly give what they want.

 

[Gejost]

Come on, how can anyone be against mixed races. So what, a premium car will look better, doesn't mean the standard cars will look like **** compared to them. Graphics, graphics, graphics... that's all that matters these days.

 

[JDMKING13]

There you have It, You be the judge FM3 AWD cars show little to no oversteer since FM1, This was the 1st thing I tested when I bought the game in October. Still its a fun game. 👍

 

[Devedander]

Come on, how can anyone be against mixed races. So what, a premium car will look better, doesn't mean the standard cars will look like **** compared to them. Graphics, graphics, graphics... that's all that matters these days.

People can be against mixed races because they actually know what the differences between standards and premiums are. (Hint: It's not just graphics)

 

[Gejost]

People can be against mixed races because they actually know what the differences between standards and premiums are. (Hint: It's not just graphics)

Damage model? As long as standard cars suffer from the same mechanical damage as premium cars, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Anything else?

 

[Devedander]

Damage model? As long as standard cars suffer from the same mechanical damage as premium cars, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Anything else?

Well that depends somewhat on to what extent the damage can effect things such as parts falling off actually messing you up if you run into them and also weather effects that only negatively effect cockpit view which only premiums have or wipers again in a similar method. Night races of course bear the whole high beams vs low beams issue.

There is also the fact that we really don't know all that much about standards and assume that they are only different in the ways we have been told so far.

I don't want to get into the detailed explanations again, but there are any number of things that could be different that we have no way of finding out since there are no demos featuring standards available to us.

 

[Teh_Loserer]

There you have It, You be the judge FM3 AWD cars show little to no oversteer since FM1

I beg to differ. I always set all my AWD cars to 85% rear bias. They slide the rear end out just fine.

 

[JDMKING13]

Damage model? As long as standard cars suffer from the same mechanical damage as premium cars, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Anything else?

Man you going to get D started again I agree with you though, but some don't just gotta respect it. 👍

I beg to differ. I always set all my AWD cars to 85% rear bias. They slide the rear end out just fine.

Just watch the video I'm mashing the gas in the corners nothing. Even when tunning its slight kicks out no like it should though Just watch the Best Motoring Video the mines GT-R rear can break out anytime.

 

[Devedander]

Man you going to get D started again I agree with you though, but some don't just gotta respect it. 👍

Too late!

 

[Akira AC]

I don't know there is a million thing involved in that test such:

tires:?
advance settings:?
tuning:?
stock car or mod car:?
brake balance and gear transmission settings:?

I see your point it does creates a lot of understeer,like the Lamborghini reventon,but I have play with the R8 and it doesn't create that amount of understeer.

Either way I say that is more down to how each car was scripted.

 

[Gejost]

Well that depends somewhat on to what extent the damage can effect things such as parts falling off actually messing you up if you run into them...

GRID comes in mind, I've had some crashed because of parts falling off and laying on the track. Good point.

...and also whether effects that only negatively effect cockpit view which only premiums have.

I'm sure in a premium only race people won't always drive with cockpit view, or they'll change it occarding to the weather. You don't get forced to drive with cockpit.

There is also the fact that we really don't know all that much about standards and assume that they are only different in the ways we have been told so far.

I don't want to get into the detailed explanations again, but there are any number of things that could be different that we have no way of finding out since there are no demos featuring standards available to us.

I'm sure PD wouldn't allow mixed races if there are fundamental differences between premiums and standards physics wise. The differences are only cosmetic as far as I know. Atleast, that's how I see it. That none have any disadvantages over the other, except cosmetic.

 

[JDMKING13]

I don't know there is a million thing involved in that test such:

tires:?
advance settings:?
tuning:?
stock car or mod car:?
brake balance and gear transmission settings:?

I see your point it does creates a lot of understeer,like the Lamborghini reventon,but I have play with the R8 and it doesn't create that amount of understeer.

Either way I say that is more down to how each car was scripted.

Everything is stock in both games no tunning. The mines GT-R on street tires should = Rear kicking out on hard acceleration. Why should you have to tune the car, In GT5P the Mines had S2 tires thats it, anytime I came out of a corner smashing the throttle the rear kicked out. The GT-R is AWD but from many tuners opinion it handles like a FR with the plus of being AWD.

 

[Gejost]

Man you going to get D started again I agree with you though, but some don't just gotta respect it. 👍

That's true, and I'll respect their opinion. I just having a hard time to understand it. It's bad enough that only ~200 cars will have a cockpit view, and not allowing them to race with the other ~800 cars makes it only worse imo.

 

[JDMKING13]

That's true, and I'll respect their opinion. I just having a hard time to understand it. It's bad enough that only ~200 cars will have a cockpit view, and not allowing them to race with the other ~800 cars makes it only worse imo.

Same way I feel bro Its all good though I just want to enjoy the game with all you guys cant wait!

 

[Devedander]

I'm sure in a premium only race people won't always drive with cockpit view, or they'll change it occarding to the weather. You don't get forced to drive with cockpit.

True, but it means that you know in a race against standards you are forcing a disadvantage on yourself to use cockpit, which is real shame if you happen to really like cockpit view...

I'm sure PD wouldn't allow mixed races if there are fundamental differences between premiums and standards physics wise. The differences are only cosmetic as far as I know. Atleast, that's how I see it. That none have any disadvantages over the other, except cosmetic.

While I hope you're right, I think if you asked people a few years ago if GT5 would be like what it is a lot of it would be met with "I'm sure PD wouldn't allow that to happen".

 

[Gejost]

We'll have to wait and see. It's going to be a nice surprise to find out how everything will work together if you ask me. Let's hope it will be a pleasant surprise.

I'm off to bed, good night all.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

hey you guys,has any video,any evidance as to premium cars and standard cars on track at the same time?Im really leaning towards 'no' ,they cant be on track at once.I expected to see a trailer that would depict this by now,but nothing.I would guess,that includes rain,snow etc.The fact that standard cars also dont have bright lights,says to me that they might not even be used with dynamic weather of any kind.if its night and its raining,without brights,how would a standard car from bumper cam fair in nurburgring?

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

hey you guys,has any video,any evidance as to premium cars and standard cars on track at the same time?Im really leaning towards 'no' ,they cant be on track at once.I expected to see a trailer that would depict this by now,but nothing.I would guess,that includes rain,snow etc.The fact that standard cars also dont have bright lights,says to me that they might not even be used with dynamic weather of any kind.if its night and its raining,without brights,how would a standard car from bumper cam fair in nurburgring?

To be fair, we have only seen one trailer of standard cars, and no gameplay.

 

[Zonda_Guy]

hey you guys,has any video,any evidance as to premium cars and standard cars on track at the same time?Im really leaning towards 'no' ,they cant be on track at once.I expected to see a trailer that would depict this by now,but nothing.I would guess,that includes rain,snow etc.The fact that standard cars also dont have bright lights,says to me that they might not even be used with dynamic weather of any kind.if its night and its raining,without brights,how would a standard car from bumper cam fair in nurburgring?

Here's the pic that confirms they can be mixed during a race. IMO it's good news and there's no problem with Standards and Premiums racing together.

 

[JDMKING13]

hey you guys,has any video,any evidance as to premium cars and standard cars on track at the same time?Im really leaning towards 'no' ,they cant be on track at once.I expected to see a trailer that would depict this by now,but nothing.I would guess,that includes rain,snow etc.The fact that standard cars also dont have bright lights,says to me that they might not even be used with dynamic weather of any kind.if its night and its raining,without brights,how would a standard car from bumper cam fair in nurburgring?

Guess you have not seen this before. They are racing at night, so I think its safe to say standard cars can race on any track with dynamic weather. 👍

Edit: The standard look good IMO, just bring on GT5.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Guess you have not seen this before. They are racing at night, so I think its safe to say standard cars can race on any track with dynamic weather. 👍

Edit: The standard look good IMO, just bring on GT5.

I think the LMP cars at the beginning look almost as good as the premiums.

 

[JDMKING13]

I think the LMP cars at the beginning look almost as good as the premiums.

No doubt man they look good IMO, Its really hard to compare any cars to those premiums though they just look amazing.

 

[alucard0712]

They looks good because of low resolution video.On Full HD they you will see true power of premiums!

(but yeah, they look ok!)

 

[KilzoneStrife]

if the level of external damage and and lack of interiors in standards are the only divide,Im cool with that.Im actually excited to see how the cars turned out,cars that would maybe be impossible for PD to get hold of in any case.The Mercedes D2 CLK-DTM.Any confirmation if GT2 cars are being worked through?I highly doubt it,but I would love to see the Mercedes C43AMG from GT2 be in.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

OT here but I am sure this will all become DLC in a few weeks/months.

T10 is just making a stab at the market trying to sell a few more copies and steal some thunder from GT5. Releasing as DLC does not generate any new sales as that just means people who already own the game will buy the DLC. Also considering you can pick up used copies for cheap, many people would probably opt to buy the used copy and some DLC which means no money for T10.

By selling it as a non DLC exclusive they get money for the sales and potentially steal some GT5 sales or even confuse some people out of GT5 sales (grandma I want that game with race cars and top gear stig guy).

This little refresh to the Forza name nets them some sales and market now, maybe even gets a few existing owners to buy a new copy like a sucker and in a few months, the content hits DLC because that's basically free money.

Basically it's a wise business decision and a money grab.

Continuing the O/T-ness, for a bit:

See, the only problem I see with the FM3 Ultimate Collection is a matter of poor marketing decisions (and one DLC mistake). Much like how GT5 would've benefited from a different marketing approach in regards to the two tiers, this new FM3 collection is very similar to the Game Of The Year edition of LittleBigPlanet, which didn't get any complaints. That had a bunch of previously-released DLC bundled with it, and a lower price. Basically, what FUC is... except that has some unavailable-to-current-owners DLC. I can only imagine this FUC-exclusive stuff will be available shortly... but if that's true, they really should've told their fanbase ahead of time, that hey, this new stuff is only going to be exclusive to the new game for a short time. That would've avoided alienating current owners, and would've still accomplished the desired goal of grabbing a chunk of new sales with a nice, value-oriented re-release.

If GT5 gets some similar treatment, I'd hope they'd realize this.

Don't worry. That's how I found GT4, when cars simply refused to power-oversteer, including a more powerful variant of a car I've experienced power-oversteer in!

This is why I'm genuinely confused about people going back to GT4 and being able to say it's still a great game. I know, it's all a matter of taste, but for a game that relies on it's reputation for physics, to so utterly botch them is depressing. I've been replaying it, and again, on N-tires it's really not that bad, but GT4's strength lays in the car diversity, not in the questionable physics.

Guess you have not seen this before. They are racing at night, so I think its safe to say standard cars can race on any track with dynamic weather. 👍

Edit: The standard look good IMO, just bring on GT5.

To be fair, we haven't seen them on any weather-affected tracks... but yeah, I fully expect they'll be on there, as there's no reason to think they wouldn't. One thing I have noticed; the LMP's in that video still aren't using proper headlights like the Premiums do at La Sarthe. They don't project any light, illuminating what it hits; they just have the same texture on the ground in front of the car, like in GT3 and GT4. The two cars on Toscana seem to be mostly the same; the Pug illuminates a tiny, tiny bit of the dirt the Renault's kicking up, but not nearly as much as playable demos have shown. Odd.

They looks good because of low resolution video.On Full HD they you will see true power of premiums!

(but yeah, they look ok!)

Exactly... for us people with bigger TV's, the flaws will be a bit easier to spot than on a tiny resolution Youtube video .

 

[Nish]

Slipstream you were partially correct about why I still like GT4. I do like the diversity (of the cars, tracks and # of series to compete in) but also for the time you have to put in to finish it, it adds more to the game to me (rather than most games I've pretty much finish in less than a month). The handling wasn't right by a longshot you are correct but to me it's just a fun game.

 

[Griffith500]

I've struggled to follow this thread, so I don't really know where we are. Apologies in advance

The way I see it is that if there is a large gulf in gameplay (racing) between the standards and premiums, then PD probably won't put them together.


The lights are a non-issue, since the high / low beam thing is probably only about graphical representation (two-stages of "illumination" on the actual car, whilst the Standards only have the one, and PD can't justify going back over them to add the second level).

So, the Standards only have one level of lighting (at least as far as the car appears). However, we've already seen the LoD switching at LeMans at night where cars around the player use "high beams" and those further away switch to low'uns. This behaviour should extend to the Standards, whose default setting would better be full beam, rather than dipped, for obvious reasons. All this means is the projected light will change, but the car will still appear to be giving full beans.

If PD really are so fussy as to not allow the LoD to affect Standards, then that poses a serious problem, doubly so since the Toscana video only looks like low / dipped lights.


Another issue, one that Devedander mentioned, and one I've been thinking about for a while, is bits dropping off cars. But, as far as I can recall, this will only apply to certain cars anyway (i.e. not all Premiums - it's a three tier damage system, not two.) We've only seen Premium rally cars with doors flapping and / or missing.
Maybe this is partly because of the Standards and this behaviour will be disabled for mixed-tier racing.

And what about the horn? I'm sure they recorded the horn sound when they did the engine / exhaust sessions, though.


Tuning is a bigger issue, frankly, since GT5 appears to be using a new system (going by the exhaust section screenshot from earlier in the year) so it might be the case that Standards use the old, GT4-style tuning / parts - though hopefully this shouldn't have any effect on the mixed-tier racing issue.


Additionally, I don't think mixed-tier racing should be prevented by simple, cosmetic / aesthetic reasons. Maybe PD feel differently.