Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

I like the weather system to be there than it not to be there like Forza etc.

Calling it a "system" at this point is looking to be a bit of a stretch. Though I guess we'll find out exactly how intricate (or simple) it is once we have our hands on it.

But what is really wrong is this whole notion that Kaz was focused more on a commercial success than the quality of the game. Kaz is one of the main devs in the industry who does pay attention to detail and quality.

He is far from being the only one though. And who knows... there could be outside pressures involving the Standard cars inclusions. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if there is.

And quality is measured by the amount of content this game has, but yet you are focused on these standard cars?

What? Quality isn't measured by the amount of content, it's measured by the, uh, quality. Recycling models from last generation (and then taking away some features enjoyed in that old game) doesn't speak well to the "king of simulation racing" crown. And I'm focused on the Standards because that is the topic... and because they make up the vast majority of the game.

 

[Killinator]

... and because they make up the vast majority of the game.

Every time I'm reminded of that I start to choke on my own rage!

 

[Griffith500]

...



What? Quality isn't measured by the amount of content, it's measured by the, uh, quality. Recycling models from last generation (and then taking away some features enjoyed in that old game) doesn't speak well to the "king of simulation racing" crown. And I'm focused on the Standards because that is the topic... and because they make up the vast majority of the game.

I get what you're saying, and I'm disappointed with the revelations recently, but is that all Gran Turismo is, its car-roster?

"The game", to me, isn't the cars themselves, rather what I can do to and with those cars. Yes, the Standards are less flexible in that respect, but without them the game would be virtually unchanged in my mind. It'd just have far fewer cars!

 

[gaming25]

I get what you're saying, and I'm disappointed with the revelations recently, but is that all Gran Turismo is, its car-roster?

"The game", to me, isn't the cars themselves, rather what I can do to and with those cars. Yes, the Standards are less flexible in that respect, but without them the game would be virtually unchanged in my mind. It'd just have far fewer cars!

Exactly.

 

[BORDER323]

The make up most of the cars, not the majority of the "game".

well it is a racing game...and cars do play quite an important part of that ... lol

 

[Akira AC]

Here we go again 4 months later!!!

In all seriousness to the new people around here,this was debated,GT5 have standards cars will least features,stop giving reasons for them,at least they made Wagan..,sorry SS7 so I can blast on highways on premium.

Well something is something that you cannot do in other games.

 

[Killinator]

but is that all Gran Turismo is, its car-roster?
!

PD seem to believe thats a large part of what GT is otherwise they wouldn't have so hap-hazardly thrown in 80% recycled vehicles to up the numbers for the back of the box.

 

[LaBounti]

Kaz is the only one to blame, We have few 500K polygon car models that take half a year to make just one. and you have GT4 models with a shiny coat of paint and no visual customizing. This just sours my excitement. It's clear now why they wanted to keep these things secret before the game came out. Still going to get it but its no longer the epic game I assumed it would be thanks to over doing the premiums and under-doing the standards. Meet us half-way Kaz!

I was all for the standards thinking you could put some nice new wheels on them. Oh well.... Will still play it like crazy.

GT3 was like GT1, GT4 was like GT2, Odd numbers seem to have "less" content.

 

[Griffith500]

PD seem to believe thats a large part of what GT is otherwise they wouldn't have so hap-hazardly thrown in 80% recycled vehicles to up the numbers for the back of the box.

Of course. A racing game needs cars, I get that. I'm sure there is an element of "hey, watch this, if we add the GTPSP cars to what we've modeled so far for GT5, we get over 1000!" as much as offering a more diverse car roster for the game itself, something I missed in GT3 to some extent.

But is that a reason to exclude them?

 

[Dravonic]

I get what you're saying, and I'm disappointed with the revelations recently, but is that all Gran Turismo is, its car-roster?

Certainly not, but I think everyone agrees the car roster is the main focus of the game. It's not all the game has to offer, but it's the main thing it has to offer. Such a huge letdown in it's main feature is not something I can shake off like that, while pretending it's all fine and dandy.

 

[Griffith500]

Certainly not, but I think everyone agrees the car roster is the main focus of the game. It's not all the game has to offer, but it's the main thing it has to offer. Such a huge letdown in it's main feature is not something I can shake off like that, while pretending it's all fine and dandy.

You know I longed for a "retro" feature in GT for years, with the idea that it would be of the same "standard" as the game the assets were coming from, just "injected" into the newer game. Now this has finally happened, one of the things I thought wouldn't happen, has (updated tuning / parts); but another that I thought would, hasn't (aftermarket wheels).

I'm still fairly happy. I don't consider it a let-down at all, mostly because I was prepared from the very start for the eventualities we're seeing now.

 

[gaming25]

well it is a racing game...and cars do play quite an important part of that ... lol

I never said that it didnt.

 

[Killinator]

Of course. A racing game needs cars, I get that. I'm sure there is an element of "hey, watch this, if we add the GTPSP cars to what we've modeled so far for GT5, we get over 1000!" as much as offering a more diverse car roster for the game itself, something I missed in GT3 to some extent.

But is that a reason to exclude them?

If PD/Kaz were upfront about them from the start then they would be accepted alot better,

BUT

This 'surprise' wouldn't have been found until after we had handed over our cash and were playing the game,
The only reason we know about these problems is becasue of a leaked copy, obviously PD/Kaz/Sony were all too ashamed of standards to even give us a run down of what the TRUTH was and not the PD marketing version of the 'truth',
and THAT is not acceptable to me, and is why I'm somewhat angered by the issue.

 

[JDMKING13]

Of course. A racing game needs cars, I get that. I'm sure there is an element of "hey, watch this, if we add the GTPSP cars to what we've modeled so far for GT5, we get over 1000!" as much as offering a more diverse car roster for the game itself, something I missed in GT3 to some extent.

But is that a reason to exclude them?

Griffith I like your style man 👍 don't waste your time bro with some of these folks man. Nothing is going to change, Its just sad to see these people bash A game they never played. I am upset about the rim issue also, but I will not stoop down to that level.

 

[BORDER323]

I never said that it didnt.

well you kinda did...

no cars... no game... so they do make up i would say not just the majority.. but all of it..

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

I kind of wish premiums weren't so detailed so we could have 1000 fairly decent cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I get what you're saying, and I'm disappointed with the revelations recently, but is that all Gran Turismo is, its car-roster?

"The game", to me, isn't the cars themselves, rather what I can do to and with those cars. Yes, the Standards are less flexible in that respect, but without them the game would be virtually unchanged in my mind. It'd just have far fewer cars!

Well, I don't think it's a stretch to say the car roster is one of the most important aspects of a "car game" . Tracks and physics being the other core important features, in my mind anyways.

I would've preferred a game with one consistent level of quality and interaction with cars. Which is what I've always said, and something that definitely isn't coming to us with this two-tier business...

 

[Griffith500]

If PD/Kaz were upfront about them from the start then they would be accepted alot better,

BUT

This 'surprise' wouldn't have been found until after we had handed over our cash and were playing the game,
The only reason we know about these problems is becasue of a leaked copy, obviously PD/Kaz/Sony were all too ashamed of standards to even give us a run down of what the TRUTH was and not the PD marketing version of the 'truth',
and THAT is not acceptable to me, and is why I'm somewhat angered by the issue.

Now you're just doing that typical "it's not fair, I'm being misled" rubbish I see in the tabloids every day (or would, should I care to look...)

From the very beginning, I suspected that there would be some sort of catch. I even over-estimated its severity. The community here did a good job of convincing me otherwise at times, but I remained grounded in my expectations.

I don't blame Sony or PD for "hiding the truth" or whatever. The truth is, everybody does it and we all ought to be wise to it. It doesn't excuse it, but what game doesn't have a little white lie or over-stated feature on the back of the packaging?

EDIT: @ SlipZtrEm So your issue is with inconsistency? I can understand that. But the game clearly separates the two tiers of cars, so the "inconsistencies" have a logical base that is plain to see. I think the hang-ups are clearly from a time before we learned the details behind rumours, and everyone assumed that we were getting 1000 premium cars, with all the features associated with that. For some reason I didn't, and maybe that's why I don't mind the two-tiered structure even though I despise inconsistency (GT's sound, anyone?)

Oh, and, by your own reckoning, the Standard cars constitute less than a third of the game!

 

[Dravonic]

I kind of wish premiums weren't so detailed so we could have 1000 fairly decent cars.

Blasphemy!

Call me crazy but I would rather have 200 premiums than 500 semi-premiums or 1000 decent cars.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Blasphemy!

Call me crazy but I would rather have 200 premiums than 500 semi-premiums or 1000 decent cars.

Graphics mean nothing to me if the gameplay isn't there.

 

[BORDER323]

I kind of wish premiums weren't so detailed so we could have 1000 fairly decent cars.

i kind of agree with this...

i mean.. these days there is so much emphasis put on DETAIL, 50% of the time you wont even be looking at this detail, so is there really any need to model a cigarete lighter to such a high standard ?

why couldnt they spend a little less time on PERFECTING 200 cars..and spend more time polishing the other 800 a bit more.

i know they say thay have UPGRADED the gt4 models to be more inkeeping with gt5.. but by the looks of it to me its only supperficial upgrading. more could have been done..

 

[Dravonic]

Now you're just doing that typical "it's not fair, I'm being misled" rubbish I see in the tabloids every day (or would, should I care to look...)

From the very beginning, I suspected that there would be some sort of catch. I even over-estimated its severity. The community here did a good job of convincing me otherwise at times, but I remained grounded in my expectations.

I don't blame Sony or PD for "hiding the truth" or whatever. The truth is, everybody does it and we all ought to be wise to it. It doesn't excuse it, but what game doesn't have a little white lie or over-stated feature on the back of the packaging?

Now you're just doing that typical "He is wrong, but they are wrong too!" rubbish I see everyday

 

[Griffith500]

Now you're just doing that typical "He is wrong, but they are wrong too!" rubbish I see everyday

I don't get your point, but that doesn't matter. I think this discussion ran it's course long ago. We don't need to question why the Standard cars exist anymore, rather the concessions that PD have had to make in "bringing them up to current-gen standards".

I.e. simply focus on their impact, rather than their validity.

 

[Killinator]

Now you're just doing that typical "it's not fair, I'm being misled" rubbish I see in the tabloids every day (or would, should I care to look...)

From the very beginning, I suspected that there would be some sort of catch. I even over-estimated its severity. The community here did a good job of convincing me otherwise at times, but I remained grounded in my expectations.

I don't blame Sony or PD for "hiding the truth" or whatever. The truth is, everybody does it and we all ought to be wise to it. It doesn't excuse it, but what game doesn't have a little white lie or over-stated feature on the back of the packaging?

Nice with the tabloids, you either read them or don't,

Seems your getting the perfect game going over your posts, it seems GT can do no wrong in your eyes as you seem to have called it all already,
If its in the game your happy, if its not then "oh well" you saw it coming and can accept it,
If I've been doing the typical 'rubbish' of "its not fair" then your plenty guilty of the very highest level of fanboyism rubbish.
You seem unable to admit that this is a bad thing,
Your actually trying to put a positive spin on this issue despite it being a completely negative issue.

I don't get your point, but that doesn't matter. I think this discussion ran it's course long ago. We don't need to question why the Standard cars exist anymore, rather the concessions that PD have had to make in "bringing them up to current-gen standards".

I.e. simply focus on their impact, rather than their validity.

Yes lets stop talking about this 'insignificant issue' and go back to lauding the greatest game Jesus never played.

And as far as this is concerned:
"bringing them up to current-gen standards"
we are still waiting.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Now you're just doing that typical "it's not fair, I'm being misled" rubbish I see in the tabloids every day (or would, should I care to look...)

From the very beginning, I suspected that there would be some sort of catch. I even over-estimated its severity. The community here did a good job of convincing me otherwise at times, but I remained grounded in my expectations.

I don't blame Sony or PD for "hiding the truth" or whatever. The truth is, everybody does it and we all ought to be wise to it. It doesn't excuse it, but what game doesn't have a little white lie or over-stated feature on the back of the packaging?

being up front about it and telling the truth months ago would have curbed the rage, but were past the latest release date and only found out because someone leaked some information their not suppose to. So when were we supposed to find out, after we bought it? that's bad business, real bad to hide info like that.

I don't now what kinda work you deal with but being mislead in my job can cost thousands and gets people fired. I have a feeling that is the case with most real world jobs people have, gaming is different because you have millions of others that will just fall in line. I don't do business with people like that and would trust only as far as i could throw them. Kaz credibility is sinking pretty fast right now.

 

[EAGLE 5]

Personally I'm in it for the Physics. I don't car if I'm driving a box or a 911 Turbo if i'm in a box it better handle like one if it's a 911 Turbo it better not handle like a box!

 

[Killinator]

Personally I'm in it for the Physics. I don't car if I'm driving a box or a 911 Turbo if i'm in a box it better handle like one if it's a 911 Turbo it better not handle like a box!

I don't know about boxes but the 911's in GT don't handle all too well

 

[BoneSawTX]

I don't know about boxes but the 911's in GT don't handle all too well

must have one of those super limited editions

 

[Griffith500]

Nice with the tabloids, you either read them or don't,

Seems your getting the perfect game going over your posts, it seems GT can do no wrong in your eyes as you seem to have called it all already,
If its in the game your happy, if its not then "oh well" you saw it coming and can accept it,
If I've been doing the typical 'rubbish' of "its not fair" then your plenty guilty of the very highest level of fanboyism rubbish.
You seem unable to admit that this is a bad thing,
Your actually trying to put a positive spin on this issue despite it being a completely negative issue.

What issue, exactly? Having Standard cars at all? How is that entirely negative? Now I don't expect to have a particular "identity" in these parts, but I've been called a fanboy so often (but only in this thread...) that people must not "recognise" me from post to post. I never claimed I saw anything coming, just that I smelled a rat.

Yes lets stop talking about this 'insignificant issue' and go back to lauding the greatest game Jesus never played.

And as far as this is concerned:
"bringing them up to current-gen standards"
we are still waiting.

Now it seems that you can't rationalise my disagreement with you, so you resort to character assassination based on imagined traits? Good work - just like a tabloid, even!
And I put that phrase in quotes for a reason.

being up front it laying it out there months ago would have curbed the rage, but were past the latest release date and only found out because someone leaked some information their not suppose to. So when were we supposed to find out, after we bought it? that's bad business, real bad to hide info like that.

I don't now what kinda work you deal with but being mislead in my job can cost thousands and gets people fired. I have a feeling that is the case with most real world jobs people have, gaming is different because you have millions of others that will just fall in line. I don't do business with people like that and would trust only as far as i could throw them. Kaz credibility is sinking pretty fast right now.

Standard cars have been on the official website for some time now, with quite a few highlighted differences. Sure, it might not have been soon enough for our community, but we're all slaves to the rumour mill.

I'm talking about being misled about a game, and in its advertisements. I know all about what you're getting at, but I'm pretty sure Kaz's credibility is up there, else he wouldn't have the job. This is the kind of hysterics that I feel is unecessary and totally short-sighted. None of my friends care about the "shortcomings" of the Standard cars, because they never knew any different. We only knew different because of rumours and putting two and two together and wishing for the stars - we're not blameless, just as Sony / PD aren't.

 

[Killinator]

must have one of those super limited editions

No, you only get 911's with the Uber Cool Happy Fun Time Edition, it comes with a piece of the Holy Grail on a GT keychain