Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Strittan]

I've thought this too for a while but I've also heard people "in the know" saying the same thing but if Amar believes it too then that is as good as confirmed in my eyes.

The inverse is not true, the Ferrari 330 P4 '67 is proof of that.

As much as Amar has contributed to the forums, he has been wrong about stuff as well. For example, he refuse to admit that the standard cars are nothing but GT4 models with updated reflections.

 

[Beat the Beat]

I've thought this too for a while but I've also heard people "in the know" saying the same thing but if Amar believes it too then that is as good as confirmed in my eyes.

The inverse is not true, the Ferrari 330 P4 '67 is proof of that.

I think it's reliable to assume all cars beyond 2005 will be Premium, with possible exception of Bugatti Veyron, Audi R8 LMS Race car, Mazda Furai.

 

[Spark_GTP]

I'm very confuse about the way PD make a car.

The SL55 is a premium car but SL500,SL600,SL65 are standard.

The Skyline R34 is a premium car but the rest of its version (10+) are standard.

Why they do like that?

 

[pay2021]

They should have announced that there would be over 1000 premium cars! And then have 200 'premium extra' cars as an extra feature!

They should have announced ANY, we dont know car list, track list!! A DATE!!! that we know its just for the people who research!!!

 

[Tornado]

I'm very confuse about the way PD make a car.

The SL55 is a premium car but SL500,SL600,SL65 are standard.

The Skyline R34 is a premium car but the rest of its version (10+) are standard.

Why they do like that?

Because hopefully it means large quantities of easy Premium converts without much effort sometime after the game comes out.

 

[paulpg87]

i don't like the fact that you will be forced to play standards.. there is a huge difference in gameplay experience and i don't mean physic, i mean overall experience.. because for me there is a huge difference in playing with the cockpit view with the wheel and headtracking and playing without it.. it just not an eyecandy like the painted rims or blacked out windows or damage. It 's like another game and i still don't get how the hell Kaz allowed, in 2010, a driving simulator with 800 cars without the place where the driver actually is. I fell really upset. I would've prefered quality over quantity and wait for gt6. Like gt3 and gt4.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think it's reliable to assume all cars beyond 2005 will be Premium, with possible exception of Bugatti Veyron, Audi R8 LMS Race car, Mazda Furai.

Doh, forgot about those 3 (though I'm still assuming the Veyron is indeed Premium, just not purchasable...)

 

[gaming25]

Appearantly there is a pic in another thread that says that you can change and probably customize the wheels for standard cars, and that only the default wheels cannot be customized. So that should stop all of this complaining on this thread.

 

[Luminis]

The bold part is my point, that there are double standards between Forza and GT5. You may not agree with what I post, but what the hey. [...] LOTS of words [...]

So, well, wait a second. What do you expect? Should people complain about Forza everytime they complain about something in Gran Turismo?
You do realise that this is a forum that's dedicated to Gran Turismo, it's a thread dedicated to Gran Turismo and it's about an issue with Gran Turismo, don't you?

And really, does it make standard cars any better that Forza has LoD on the bot cars? In my opnion it doesn't. If Forza isn't better in that regard, will it improve my experience with Gran Turismo? Hell no, it won't. It will stay the same either way.

Let me put it this way. If your car is rusty like hell and breaking apart, but your neighbour's car is even worse, will that stop your car from falling to pieces? If it does, then I'd probably like to live in whatever reality you appearently live in, really.

Okay, so Forza's bot cars look crappy. Fine. Does it matter?
I still won't be able to put new rims on a standard car. I still won't be able to drive a standardcar from cockpit view. It doesn't make them any better.
So why bring Forza up every time?
It's not an excuse for anything!

And while the reasons behind the standard cars might be an excuse, it still doesn't make them any better, either.

I want to drive some damn cars, and own them, a lot of them, a thousand of them, and have the drive of my life! You malcontents can do whatever you want.

Heh, maybe that's the problem really. You're about quantity. About numbers.
I'm not. I'm about quality. Cars that come with limited graphics, limited features and, thus, limited quality are absolutely not my cup of tea.

But if it floats your boat to jump to GT's side and act like a white knight of some sorts, for all I care, please do. If it makes you feeel better about GT, keep reminding yourself of the flaws in Forza. But don't expect everyone to do the same.

Personally, I will keep criticising flaws about the game. And I will still like it. Maybe that's a concept some people can't fathom at all. But everybody who's had a relationship should probably understand that you can very well love something (or someone) and still apply criticism.

And if there's one thing that I will criticise, it's the standard cars. And I do hope a lot of people will. Even if it's just for one single reason: PD not making the same mistake with any other GT game.

Appearantly there is a pic in another thread that says that you can change and probably customize the wheels for standard cars, and that only the default wheels cannot be customized. So that should stop all of this complaining on this thread.

For chrissake, that's the exact same grasping at straws as it was with the cockpit view. The exact same kind of denial. It's the same thing really. PD could be slapping people across the face with a big sign saying 'NOT POSSIBLE!' for hours on end and someone will still come up with a reason as to why we'll still see said feature in the final realese.

 

[gaming25]

Heh, maybe that's the problem really. You're about quantity. About numbers.
I'm not. I'm about quality. Cars that come with limited graphics, limited features and, thus, limited quality are absolutely not my cup of tea.

But if it floats your boat to jump to GT's side and act like a white knight of some sorts, for all I care, please do. If it makes you feeel better about GT, keep reminding yourself of the flaws in Forza. But don't expect everyone to do the same.


For chrissake, that's the exact same grasping at straws as it was with the cockpit view. The exact same kind of denial. It's the same thing really. PD could be slapping people across the face with a big sign saying 'NOT POSSIBLE!' for hours on end and someone will still come up with a reason as to why we'll still see said feature in the final realese.

The standard cars will have new physics which is the core part of the game, so the standard cars are not soley about the numbers. Your only case is about the interior models, which you cant seem to understand they werent able to do them. The thousand cars is great because many people will enjoy the mass amount of cars you can drive.

The problem with your criticism is that you are nitpicking at the extra features, many of which cannot be even found in other games. You're not even making a case against the core features (career mode, and online) which are probably going to be amazing and are the main things that matter. Content is added to this game, but it seems like you dont appreciate that and you want more of it. Weather implimentation and other factors are a BONUS, which means that you wouldnt have even paid attention to them if they werent even announced in the first place.

And also, the pic basically says that you can change the wheels, I am not grasping at straws, it is in flat out english.

 

[amar212]

As much as Amar has contributed to the forums, he has been wrong about stuff as well. For example, he refuse to admit that the standard cars are nothing but GT4 models with updated reflections.

I refuse and I always will

 

[gaming25]

I refuse and I always will

You should refuse actually because the main difference is the physics, which is the main thing that matters.

 

[gaming25]

Heh, maybe that's the problem really. You're about quantity. About numbers.
I'm not. I'm about quality. Cars that come with limited graphics, limited features and, thus, limited quality are absolutely not my cup of tea.

But if it floats your boat to jump to GT's side and act like a white knight of some sorts, for all I care, please do. If it makes you feeel better about GT, keep reminding yourself of the flaws in Forza. But don't expect everyone to do the same.


For chrissake, that's the exact same grasping at straws as it was with the cockpit view. The exact same kind of denial. It's the same thing really. PD could be slapping people across the face with a big sign saying 'NOT POSSIBLE!' for hours on end and someone will still come up with a reason as to why we'll still see said feature in the final realese.

The standard cars will have new physics which is the core part of the game, so the standard cars are not soley about the numbers. Your only case is about the interior models, which you cant seem to understand they werent able to do them. The thousand cars is great because many people will enjoy the mass amount of cars you can drive.

The problem with your criticism is that you are nitpicking at the extra features, many of which cannot be even found in other games. You're not even making a case against the core features (career mode, and online) which are probably going to be amazing and are the main things that matter. Content is added to this game, but it seems like you dont appreciate that and you want more of it. Weather implimentation and other factors are a BONUS, which means that you wouldnt have even paid attention to them if they werent even announced in the first place.

Also, I thought the pic was explaining what you could do with the car behind it, I didnt know that it was supposed to be the info on the feature.

 

[VXR]

I'm going to be spending around £250 to play a cut down version of GT4's car list, when my 2001MY PS2 is probably worth a tenner if I'm lucky and these cars are fully featured.

That doesn't seem right, to me. It's the same with the new Crazy Taxi downloads on XBLA/PSn. They no longer feature the Offspring & Bad Religion on the soundtrack or the Pizza Hut/KFC/Fila stores and this is replaced by generic offerings. So where is the incentive to buy it when a £5 Xbox version of CT3 would offer me a full experience? The same goes for the standards really.

 

[maxpontiac]

I'm going to be spending around £250 to play a cut down version of GT4's car list, when my 2001MY PS2 is probably worth a tenner if I'm lucky and these cars are fully featured.

That doesn't seem right, to me. It's the same with the new Crazy Taxi downloads on XBLA/PSn. They no longer feature the Offspring & Bad Religion on the soundtrack or the Pizza Hut/KFC/Fila stores and this is replaced by generic offerings. So where is the incentive to buy it when a £5 Xbox version of CT3 would offer me a full experience? The same goes for the standards really.

No said you had to buy GT5. 👍

 

[Mr Turismo]

i´m still shocked with the fact that we can´t change the rims in standard models...

 

[gaming25]

I'm going to be spending around £250 to play a cut down version of GT4's car list, when my 2001MY PS2 is probably worth a tenner if I'm lucky and these cars are fully featured.

That doesn't seem right, to me. It's the same with the new Crazy Taxi downloads on XBLA/PSn. They no longer feature the Offspring & Bad Religion on the soundtrack or the Pizza Hut/KFC/Fila stores and this is replaced by generic offerings. So where is the incentive to buy it when a £5 Xbox version of CT3 would offer me a full experience? The same goes for the standards really.

Because GT5 is a completly different game and a new and better experience than GT4, while Crazy Taxi on PSN is the same game it was on the Dreamcast.

 

[VXR]

If Kaz didn't want to include them, he should have put his foot down with Sony's marketing department who merely want a number on the box that trumps their nearest rival in console sim gaming. I can't see how it's anything other than a protest by the studio to include them and then remove some of their functionality, which needn't have happened were they to port over GT4's wheels for GT Auto.

Because GT5 is a completly different game and a new and better experience than GT4, while Crazy Taxi on PSN is the same game it was on the Dreamcast.

80% of the car list is the old game with less functionality.

 

[Ryan81]

This whole standard/premium thing along with only 20% of cars having cockpit views has been the biggest letdown for me. Sure, I will still buy GT5 because it will be a very good game. Nevertheless, it certainly won't be the epic masterpiece that I was hoping for......

 

[Gt5anticip8r]

Physics, physics, physics...enough already. It's one thing that the games physics engine is good. Doesn't change the fact that there are 800 cars which are completely below par. Stop pretending that PD did us a huge favour by including 800 crappy cars - after all, they aren't making the game out of the goodness of their hearts. They doing it to make money, and it was always going to help to market your game as having more than double the car count of your nearest competitor. That Forza guy may be an arrogant a##, but at least he doesn't claim to be a perfectionist and then leave 80% of his main content unfinished.

 

[VXR]

All premium line-up: 100% of cars have cock-pit view.

How that didn't sound appealing to Sony I don't know. You need never even mention a bald figure for the total number of cars if you can claim 100% coverage.

No matter how you slice it, only 20% of the line-up is actually what PD set out to achieve.

 

[Ryan81]

I get annoyed when I see some people constantly trying to defend the standard cars:

"So what? It's still 800 cars to choose from!"
"Beats Forza anyways"
"They didn't have time to model the interiors for the standards"

Etc, etc.

I would have been happier with 200-250 premiums. Still plenty of cars to choose from rather than this whole concept of Sony wanting to boast about having 1,000 cars. Yeah, and 80% of them are GT4 models with a bit of improved texturing and supposedly new physics. They forget to mention that on the back of the box.

 

[VXR]

I'll be truly amazed if the box mentions Premium & Standard when listing the number of cars.

 

[Aarron_M]

i´m still shocked with the fact that we can´t change the rims in standard models...

It's not true. Go to the body modding thread.

 

[LaBounti]

That Forza guy may be an arrogant a##, but at least he doesn't claim to be a perfectionist and then leave 80% of his main content unfinished.

those 80% were finished 6 years ago............

 

[Gt5anticip8r]

@ Ryan81

Exactly my point. The fanboys simply don't realise what a marketing gimmick the Standard cars are. Not enough time? They had nearly six years! It beats Forza? How? Forza has 400 finished, proper cars. GT5 has 200-250. And I'm sorry, but any current gen game blows the Standard cars right out of the water. Now, some imbecile will probably post a picture showing how the fourth left screw on the Forza M3's firewall isn't as detailed as the one on GT.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Personally, I will keep criticising flaws about the game. And I will still like it. Maybe that's a concept some people can't fathom at all. But everybody who's had a relationship should probably understand that you can very well love something (or someone) and still apply criticism.

I think you're onto something here, Luminis...

For chrissake, that's the exact same grasping at straws as it was with the cockpit view. The exact same kind of denial. It's the same thing really. PD could be slapping people across the face with a big sign saying 'NOT POSSIBLE!' for hours on end and someone will still come up with a reason as to why we'll still see said feature in the final realese.

+1. This image:

Is pretty clear to me. That last sentence in particular. Sure, I could twist all the words around and interpret differently if I really wanted to, just like a bunch of people are doing now (and did with the cockpit view thing, as you mentioned), but that just seems silly.

The standard cars will have new physics which is the core part of the game, so the standard cars are not soley about the numbers. Your only case is about the interior models, which you cant seem to understand they werent able to do them. The thousand cars is great because many people will enjoy the mass amount of cars you can drive.

The new physics are being hailed as a huge feature, and while they are the most important one in a sim (this I agree with)... they had better be improved after 5+ years! GT4's had a lot of problems.

The problem with your criticism is that you are nitpicking at the extra features, many of which cannot be even found in other games. You're not even making a case against the core features (career mode, and online) which are probably going to be amazing and are the main things that matter. Content is added to this game, but it seems like you dont appreciate that and you want more of it. Weather implimentation and other factors are a BONUS, which means that you wouldnt have even paid attention to them if they werent even announced in the first place.

Which extra features that aren't available in other games? Cockpits? The ability to change 80% of the cars' wheels? In GT4, in 2004, I could change very nearly every car's wheels (the "Specials", like the Prowler, and a few others, excepted). This is literally a step back. I really shouldn't have to make a case against the core features; they should be good, since they are the core. Just because they're "probably going to be amazing" doesn't mean the other features should be given a free pass if their quality isn't there.

Luminis isn't asking for more content. He's asking for more quality additions. The Standards are looking like an increasingly obvious shrewd marketing tactic; casual gamers will be drawn in by the lure of 1000 cars, and as has been proven on these boards, obsessive fans will literally take anything PD gives them, happily (like "training" to stop using the cockpit view they've grown accustomed to in Prologue).

GT5 will be a great game for me, no doubt, but it's shaping up to hardly be the masterpiece I was expecting. Kaz' "expect perfection" hyperbole probably didn't help.

And also, the pic basically says that you can change the wheels, I am not grasping at straws, it is in flat out english.

"You cannot change the wheels on a Standard Model car." Yep, flat out English.

I'm going to be spending around £250 to play a cut down version of GT4's car list, when my 2001MY PS2 is probably worth a tenner if I'm lucky and these cars are fully featured.

The reason I'm still excited about GT5 is because as far as I'm concerned, I'm buying it for the actual current-gen stuff. It's a game of 200+ cars with all the new tracks, features, and online. For me, that's still something worth getting excited about. The Standards and this whole poorly-handled situation is disappointing, but looking past them, the game still appeals to me. We'll see what else they're limited to, though...

 

[VXR]

It's not true. Go to the body modding thread.

I love the clutching at straws in that thread. "You cannot change the wheels of a Standard Car" has been reworded to "You cannot change the wheels of a Standard Car, by which we mean, you can change the style, but not the height, width and diameter of the wheel."

Slipz; I'm really looking forward to the premiums, as photomode kept me playing GT4 far longer than the game alone would have and I'm an avid in-game photographer, even if the game doesn't include a screen capture feature. My beef is, I can't even make the best of a bad situation and say, add an M3 CSL's wheels to the E90 330i or an SL55's to an SL600. Now, six years after I could on my relatively archaic PS2.

 

[Aarron_M]

"You cannot change the wheels on a Standard Model car." Yep, flat out English.

But you can PURCHASE them, or don't you understand "flat out" English?

 

[Aarron_M]

The first sentence gives us two options: purchase new wheels or change.

1. Purchasing new wheels meaning you buy them and replace them.

2. Changing wheels might mean modifying the existing wheel. That might mean making them bigger, changing their width.

The last sentence states that we cannot change the wheels on standard cars, but there is no mention of not being able to purchase and replace.