Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[A4r0_57!G]

I've tried to read as much of this thread as possible so apologies if this has been raised and discussed but isn't this whole "standards vs premiums" thing rooted in the question how many cars is too many? At the end of the day that 1000+ number can be arrived having around 500-600 cars (even if only 200 are premium) and featuring the best customisation/test engine ever seen. Why have 50+ Skylines (most of them standard) when could in theory have even more by having circa. 10 premiums (maybe less) and making them as customisable as possible e.g. r32 production and race spec, r33 production and race spec e.t.c It's folly in my opinion to try and produce 1000 cars to GT5 quality, especially considering how big and dedicated the GT community is. They could bang out some seriously good car setups, mods e.t.c and knowing Kaz's attention to detail I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be so good actual racing teams could use it to test bed.

Honestly speaking I don't (unless forced) plan on owning or keeping standards (except perhaps for the specialty racers like DTMs and LMP1s). And to add to that anyone expecting anything more than 500-600 premiums in GT6 is fooling themselves unless Kaz hires more help.

Btw for those people saying this was a fully PD effort, it wasn't. Kaz was asked in an interview what the hardest thing about the game was and it he said it was co-ordinating the whole thing including outside help. Don't remember where the interview was but Polyphony did contract some work.

 

[Devedander]

The real deal looking gorgeous.

I always wonder why, in a forum full of people who like to deny graphics are important and physics is all that matters, gorgeous screenshots command attention and droolfests that can stop a conversation dead in it's tracks...

 

[Greyum]

Exactly i know I prob will have around 50 cars, I really think people just like to moan, when I played the GT5 demo I did not car about anything but driving it was so addictive.

That's because every car in the demo was premium...

I hear what people see saying about settling down to only regularly using a fraction of the cars available, but it still does not hide the fact that this decision to include standard cars was the most ridiculous idea. It's not that they look inferior, it's the fact that they are so limiting in many other ways.

 

[Pedersen]

I always wonder why, in a forum full of people who like to deny graphics are important and physics is all that matters, gorgeous screenshots command attention and droolfests that can stop a conversation dead in it's tracks...

I don't deny that graphics CAN be important. And it CAN be part of what matter. It sure helps, in some aspects, and im not going to say that I don't love every single little polygon that GT5 has to offer. I really do. But when it cooks down to basic facts, The graphics are still awesome, even standard cars. Yes they might not be tricked out with bling rims, heck, not even race wheels. Though, don't you really drive a car because it's exactly that, A car? The one you might want to try, master it. Feel how it handles etc. Everything else is just a bonus to eyecandy. Because at the end of the day, that's what it is.

I can drool all day at games, but if it feels like I have superglue for tires and a jet engine strapped to my 5kg car made of feathers, It just aint worth it. Cockpit is a big pluss, but is not a must in any way,shape or form. Im used to every other GT game. I loved every single one of them. And we didn't have the luxury to complain because we did not have cockpits then. We managed quite fine I must say.

I take stuff for what it is. And I might prioritise stuff alot diffrent than you, and I respect that. No one is alike, some will want more focus on cockpits, some on pure graphics, some on gameplay, physics etc. It's just a personal prefrence, and what you want out of the title really. Regardless of our choices, we still will probly end up meeting each other online at one time, in standard or premium cars for a laugh with our favorite cars. Slow or fast, it don't really matter. As long as the person behind the controller or wheel has an awesome time doing so.

 

[MidianGTX]

That's because every car in the demo was premium...

I hear what people see saying about settling down to only regularly using a fraction of the cars available, but it still does not hide the fact that this decision to include standard cars was the most ridiculous idea. It's not that they look inferior, it's the fact that they are so limiting in many other ways.

Yeah like the way you can't drive/race them as per the aim of the game.

The way I look at it is this... GT5 has 220 cars. It's not necessarily loads when compared to the competition, but the game is generally better so that's okay. As an added bonus, PD threw in the option to use 800 GT4 cars. I'd rather have the bonus than nothing. If you don't like it you can ignore it, apparently the standard cars all count as used cars in the game anyway.

 

[Brando-K]

Yeah like the way you can't drive/race them as per the aim of the game.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Greyum]

What do you mean by that?

He quite badly tried to come across as sarcastic, implying that the main purpose of the cars is for them to be driven rather than modified. True, but that's not just what the game is about.

I call it SFI (Selective Fanboy Ignorance) where people are happy to accept shortfalls in a game and take a different view just to convince themselves that it's actually alright.

The fact is, they would have been better off just giving us a game with 250 - 300 premiums, reducing the stupid number of duplication in cars like the Skyline, and making all features consistent across the board.

 

[amar212]

The fact is, they would have been better off just giving us a game with 250 - 300 premiums, reducing the stupid number of duplication in cars like the Skyline, and making all features consistent across the board.

It is not the fact, it is your personal oppinion.

Pronouncing your own oppinion as an fact is pretty egoistic.

 

[NBH]

The problem is I doubt you can say that GT5 has 200 cars and 800 standard 'bonus cars' as I would imagine that a lot of those 800 cars will have to be used in licence tests and other various races to progress through the game.

I guess PD thought that we never had cockpit views before so 200 out of 1000 is better than nothing. I agree that the problem lies with other areas such as reduced damage, no full beam headlights, reduction in customisation. It just makes the gap between the two sets of cars greater which highlights the flaws more.

Lets be honest, GT5 Prologue has 70 cars all with cockpits and GT5 has 200 so they have only added around 130 cockpits which isn't that many in the scheme of things but I guess PD's aim was to add additional features and not give every car a cockpit view otherwise I'm sure they would have done it.

 

[HKS racer]

I recon about race cars the premium will be SuperGT, Nascar, 3 LMP1 Le Mans, 3 '60 Le Mans, some WRC cars, all the rest will be standard

 

[DestinyDanny]

I recon about race cars the premium will be SuperGT, Nascar, 3 LMP1 Le Mans, 3 '60 Le Mans, some WRC cars, all the rest will be standard

If you check the car list thread you'll see which are premium, and it's not just the ones you listed.

 

[PzR Slim]

That's because every car in the demo was premium...

I hear what people see saying about settling down to only regularly using a fraction of the cars available, but it still does not hide the fact that this decision to include standard cars was the most ridiculous idea. It's not that they look inferior, it's the fact that they are so limiting in many other ways.

Agree, it's going to be a nightmare when putting together a list of cars to use in the tournaments the site I'm on run. Do you limit it to only premium or only standard or do you mix and match.

 

[shirakawaa]

Regarding Premium cars, to me 220 models would have been OK if there was more balance in their selection:

- No "one-off" makers
- Race-ready cars reduced in number to the minimum possible, to be mostly covered by race modification of road cars
- One important historical car per maker, if available
- A few important modern (late '80s - 00's) models per maker in their best trim available
- A few important current production models per maker in their best trim available
- Given the nature of the game, it's expected that japanese makers will have in total a few more models than western ones
- After balance is achieved in this way, try to to fill "holes" by including cars from different manufacturers to achieve small groups of different categories (for example, Muscle Cars, Kei cars, Hot Hatches, Supercars, Medium sized sports, etc)

 

[Otom1c_Nat1on]

I don't deny that graphics CAN be important. And it CAN be part of what matter. It sure helps, in some aspects, and im not going to say that I don't love every single little polygon that GT5 has to offer. I really do. But when it cooks down to basic facts, The graphics are still awesome, even standard cars. Yes they might not be tricked out with bling rims, heck, not even race wheels. Though, don't you really drive a car because it's exactly that, A car? The one you might want to try, master it. Feel how it handles etc. Everything else is just a bonus to eyecandy. Because at the end of the day, that's what it is.

I can drool all day at games, but if it feels like I have superglue for tires and a jet engine strapped to my 5kg car made of feathers, It just aint worth it. Cockpit is a big pluss, but is not a must in any way,shape or form. Im used to every other GT game. I loved every single one of them. And we didn't have the luxury to complain because we did not have cockpits then. We managed quite fine I must say.

I take stuff for what it is. And I might prioritise stuff alot diffrent than you, and I respect that. No one is alike, some will want more focus on cockpits, some on pure graphics, some on gameplay, physics etc. It's just a personal prefrence, and what you want out of the title really. Regardless of our choices, we still will probly end up meeting each other online at one time, in standard or premium cars for a laugh with our favorite cars. Slow or fast, it don't really matter. As long as the person behind the controller or wheel has an awesome time doing so.

LTLFTP

After what seems like an eternity lurking around these forums, and witnessing what at times can only be described as immature and juvenile ramblings. The above quoted post came across like a ray of light to me on this somewhat overcast, post before you think attitude of certain members of this forum.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments posted above. And I for one cannot wait to meet up online with like-minded souls, who share the same passion for fantastic racing regardless of how the in-game models look.

 

[dazzi]

What is this fuss about, I have just seen the video of the standard car race and the damned things look great, not premium model but alteast Forza 3 level which is far from bad and great work from PD to model with such quality back in 2001-2004.

 

[Brando-K]

He quite badly tried to come across as sarcastic, implying that the main purpose of the cars is for them to be driven rather than modified. True, but that's not just what the game is about.

I call it SFI (Selective Fanboy Ignorance) where people are happy to accept shortfalls in a game and take a different view just to convince themselves that it's actually alright.

The fact is, they would have been better off just giving us a game with 250 - 300 premiums, reducing the stupid number of duplication in cars like the Skyline, and making all features consistent across the board.

Oh so that was sarcasm. Thanks

But about the Skylines, I like the duplication, it's a requirement of GT games

And about having consistent features across the board, I agree it would be nice to have cockpits for all cars, but it would have taken forever to do (from all information about the time it takes to model the cars). They didn't finish all the tracks so they obviously didn't have the time needed. (Or Kaz didn't want us racing on the test track, I don't know.)

 

[Greyum]

It is not the fact, it is your personal oppinion.

Pronouncing your own oppinion as an fact is pretty egoistic.

Ah, the old "fact vs opinion" response...as old as forums themselves. It's all semantics. If you are unable to separate a true statement of fact versus the strong opinion of somebody, that's not my problem. Arguing about it and saying it's egotistic is pretty egotistic in itself.

 

[Scaff]

Ah, the old "fact vs opinion" response...as old as forums themselves. It's all semantics. If you are unable to separate a true statement of fact versus the strong opinion of somebody, that's not my problem. Arguing about it and saying it's egotistic is pretty egotistic in itself.

If you start a post "The fact is...." as you did, then don't be surprised if its taken as such, particularly if the member in question has English as a second language.

As someone who trains and teaches I can assure you that a rather apt truism is that if your not being understood the fault lies with yourself not the audience.

If you don't intend it to be taken as fact then don't start your post in this way.


Scaff

 

[MidianGTX]

He quite badly tried to come across as sarcastic, implying that the main purpose of the cars is for them to be driven rather than modified. True, but that's not just what the game is about.

I call it SFI (Selective Fanboy Ignorance) where people are happy to accept shortfalls in a game and take a different view just to convince themselves that it's actually alright.

The fact is, they would have been better off just giving us a game with 250 - 300 premiums, reducing the stupid number of duplication in cars like the Skyline, and making all features consistent across the board.

You ought to rethink your theory on my post then, because it's totally incorrect. I'm fully aware of the games shortfalls, and could list them right now if I wanted to. Unfortunately for the pessimists around here, I'd rather just concentrate on overlooking them and hype myself up for the good stuff. Fanboyism that is not.

 

[Beat the Beat]

- Given the nature of the game, it's expected that japanese makers will have in total a few more models than western ones

Surprisingly this hasn't turned out to be true for the premium selection.

 

[James2097]

It is not the fact, it is your personal oppinion.

Pronouncing your own oppinion as an fact is pretty egoistic.

As much as they way Greyum said it might have been a little intense, I (and many others) would have much preferred the GT game he described, assuming that it may have been possible if PD had gone down that route early on.

 

[MidianGTX]

Surprisingly this hasn't turned out to be true for the premium selection.

Especially when you look at what percentage of Ferrari's are premium

It seems they really consider the main bulk of the game to consist of the premium cars, and in that respect they've given the same amount of love and care to all regions. I don't care if there are a million extra Skylines ripped straight from GT4, I'm just glad the GT5 section is a little more equal.

 

[Greyum]

If you start a post "The fact is...." as you did, then don't be surprised if its taken as such, particularly if the member in question has English as a second language.

As someone who trains and teaches I can assure you that a rather apt truism is that if your not being understood the fault lies with yourself not the audience.

If you don't intend it to be taken as fact then don't start your post in this way.


Scaff

Quite clearly, what I write in relation to "what could have been" in the game is my opinion, regardless of how I write it.

 

[shirakawaa]

Surprisingly this hasn't turned out to be true for the premium selection.

As a result, there are no important Premium japanese sport cars like the Toyota Sprinter Trueno AE86, Toyota Supra MkIV, Mitsubishi 3000GT (GTO), or important cars like the Honda Beat (the last car designed by Soichiro Honda), or the Subaru 360 (it would have been nice to see the SS Young version), and the list goes on (european hot hatches especially are lacking).

But we have 11 Ferrari (it's true they are all different, but were eleven of them really necessary, when so many important cars are not Premium?), 11 very similar NASCAR cup cars, 3 Suzuki Cappuccino, 2 identical Suzuki Swift Sports, many SuperGT clones, etc.

PD/KY have been very lazy with the Premium car selection; if we remove clones or similar versions that don't take much time to tweak from "base" ones, we end up with about 160 unique Premium cars (another user did the count, I don't feel like confirming it personally right now).

 

[Scaff]

Quite clearly, what I write in relation to "what could have been" in the game is my opinion, regardless of how I write it.

I will make this quite plain and please excuse my lack of patience, but the boards are more than full of noise and nonsense of late.

What you say is possibly clear to those for whom English is a first language. However we have a significant number of non-English speaking members here at GT Planet for whom is it often far from clear.

I'm fairly certain that your own ability to discretely break down the exact nature of Croatian is far from perfect, so make allowances for those who may not speak English when you post.

Please note that this is not advise, rather it is instruction. I am more than busy enough without a discussion on what is and is not acceptable here when posting.

I would also advise laying off the 'fan-boy' insults, argue the point not the person.


Scaff

 

[Piotrov]

Yeah like the way you can't drive/race them as per the aim of the game.

The way I look at it is this... GT5 has 220 cars. It's not necessarily loads when compared to the competition, but the game is generally better so that's okay. As an added bonus, PD threw in the option to use 800 GT4 cars. I'd rather have the bonus than nothing. If you don't like it you can ignore it, apparently the standard cars all count as used cars in the game anyway.

The only problem is that 70% of the conumer base has no idea of this fact because Sony is promoting the game as bing 1000 cars of the same quality.. (even tho they do not mention that).

Most consumers are gonna be very bitter when they open the box with that has 1000+ cars on it and find that over half of them are just bonus vehicles.

Marketing and Misleading are two different things. Unfortunatly its becoming a norm in gameing these days.

 

[alucard0712]

As a result, there are no important Premium japanese sport cars like the Toyota Sprinter Trueno AE86, Toyota Supra MkIV, Mitsubishi 3000GT (GTO), or important cars like the Honda Beat (the last car designed by Soichiro Honda), or the Subaru 360 (it would have been nice to see the SS Young version), and the list goes on (european hot hatches especially are lacking).

But we have 11 Ferrari (it's true they are all different, but were eleven of them really necessary, when so many important cars are not Premium?), 11 very similar NASCAR cup cars, 3 Suzuki Cappuccino, 2 identical Suzuki Swift Sports, many SuperGT clones, etc.

PD/KY have been very lazy with the Premium car selection; if we remove clones or similar versions that don't take much time to tweak from "base" ones, we end up with about 160 unique Premium cars (another user did the count, I don't feel like confirming it personally right now).

Man come on!
Premiums are decided that way because of gameplay - you drive premiums all the time, even at very beginning (slow cars, FF and old cars).
Standard cars are here to mix the opponents - that way game will never drop fps and we can have all 16 cars on screen at once without ugly tearing.Not to say that they are mostly used cars.Bugatti is decided earlier or PD have not enough time to make it premium.As Kaz said - we drop 1 or 2 cars if we have not enough time.And surely we will have a some DLC cars.

Edited:

(PS - look of the car is depended not only on amount of polys - environment are as important as model itself (shadows, reflections, overall lighting quality) - that's from Proper Graphics professionals)
I mean they will look better than in GT4!

 

[Spark_GTP]

👍

- Better rims
- Better reflections

 

[DestinyDanny]

👍

- Better rims
- Better reflections

That Accord does look very nice, i could mistake that for premium in a quick glance, but then why does that look nice and yet the Micra look so bad?

 

[Scaff]

A very large number may think I'm mad for the following, but I was rather pleased to see the Mazda Autozam AZ-1 listed as Premium (well P/S), always loved that little car.

Spend a fortune on tuning it up (and it does end up being a fortune) and its a hoot to drive, well it was in GT4.



Scaff