Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[gtracedriver]

I thinkt he first step in that is to tone down the apoligists and denialists who are sure that:

GT will be great
Complaining will get you nothing
We should always be happy for what we get
Will buy it no matter what

Sony is a company.... they are there to make money and when making money you want to invest the least to get the biggest return.

If they can half ass it and have a couple of million people willing to bend over backwards to show their appreciation for it and money comes pouring in, what incentive exactly do they have to do more?

Both in content and quality they are miles ahead of the competition
http://translate.google.com/transla...smo-5-para-aquellos-que-ya-se-estan-quejando/

 

[MidianGTX]

PD have always wanted to push the tech further and do more, with or without complaints from anal customers. It's not your whiny emails that inspires Kaz, it's his passion for cars and driving. It's one thing to give genuinely constructive criticism, but smack talking on a forum when you haven't even played the game yet doesn't help anyone.

 

[Akira AC]

GT5 has shown quite elegantly the value of releasing bad information in small pieces and preferably cryptically over time. This way your fanbase only ever has to swallow one bitter pill at a time and they have a long time to digest each one before moving one.

Soon the previous bitter pills actually help you as you can do things like delay a month and people will say "who cares it's only a month!" since compared to previous waits a month is nothing... and if you have a part of your game with a lot of shortcomings, they can then take each shortcoming in stride and make it seem relatively minor to the bigger picture because "while Y may be gone, you should be happy you got X!" (and if X goes just make sure there is at least a pretty Z to keep them occupied).

I wonder which will be bigger... the flood of users who are suddenly caught off guard with this whole standard cars issue, or the Forza fanboys who have taken so much crap for years now about how much GT5 would be perfect and slaughter the competition and now have an actual product to critique instead of vapor ware which can always be touted as "going to be perfect".

Agreed,all that Sony has done during the last year or so is a dreadfull marketing campaing,making the whole standard vs premium issue get worst,adding the FM fanboys fights over GT fans on the whole thing,Well I consider that there is not too much FM fans these days but the whole SvP will b a huge blow in the reviewins,at this time I'm expecting the Famitsu review,and Ign's which turns out to be acurate in what the game features.

 

[JDMKING13]

Both in content and quality they are miles ahead of the competition
http://translate.google.com/transla...smo-5-para-aquellos-que-ya-se-estan-quejando/

I just don't get why people hate GT5 so much when A they never played the game, B if you play Forza and like the game how can you not like GT5? Then people cry and whine talking about its a half ass game bla bla, or some people act like they are forced to buy the game. This is the funny part though on day one they go out and buy the game, I cant believed how people front on this forum.

 

[Dapper]

Hardly feel you can say that about GT5 considering $60-80 million was spent on developing the game. I can't think of any racing game that has had such a large budget.

You can call this game half ass if you want but based on what i've seen it looks a stunning game. Im a realist who realises it would of been impossible to model all cars to premium standard plus have all the wonderful features that GT5 has. Also worth mentioning that in gameplay you cannot tell the difference between a grid consisting of standard/premium cars and this is based on those who have already played GT5.

No doubt you will ignore my post and continue to be negative. Funny how I still haven't seen one positive post from you in the other threads. I imagine you will continue to be negative on these forums whilst the rest of us are enjoying playing GT5.

Usually logical arguments are conviently missed by some. I understand this is the standard vs premium thread, but dwelling on such a minute detail-- which is essentially standards lacking cockpit view-- is really worthless even talking about considering the scope of the game. And then considering cockpit view is essentially an obstructed bumper view, it becomes an even more moot battle.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

And I'm sticking with Gran Turismo as my racing game of choice.

I'm doing the same thing. Which is why I find it odd that criticisms are apparently invalid or "Forza fanboy" material.

• SONY needs to fund the hiring of more modelers for the Polyphony staff. This content takes forever to make, so if we want to see 600 well modeled cars and 90 tracks or more in GT6, that means a bigger team. SONY writes the checks, so we need to make them hear us.
• We need to be as ambitious as Kaz and ask for the things we missed in GT5, and think of serious worthy additional content and features for the sequel. That full featured Livery Editor should be a top priority, along with more "Premium" cars and tracks - I expect no more Standards in Gran Turismo. Race Mod for every car, if possible. A true Track Creator, MNR style, where the landscape is sculpted and trackside details added, and we lay the course by hand - a good use for the Move. Weather and time of day for all tracks. Refined damage modeling. Even more Photo and Movie Mode features. Online should offer even more of an experience. And I'd love to see my concept of a lifelike Career Mode and Season Mode.

See, now this I agree with. I'm still shocked a livery editor didn't make the cut, since the main competitor has had it for literally years. I'm impressed with the smoothness of the current track generator's layouts, so yeah, and MNR-style one where we actually have control of the layout itself isn't too out-there of an idea. I agree that no more Standards should be created for GT; whether or not they look good enough visually has never been my primary concern, more of a symptom of their out-of-date method of creation. Going forward, solid block cars won't have a place in games.

Sony is a company.... they are there to make money and when making money you want to invest the least to get the biggest return.

If they can half ass it and have a couple of million people willing to bend over backwards to show their appreciation for it and money comes pouring in, what incentive exactly do they have to do more?

This brings me to a weird conundrum: on one hand, I want PD (and Sony) to know my criticisms, in the hopes of an improved experience the next game. I do still have faith they can do it, and want to see them do it. On the other hand, buying the current game as a sign of continued support can send the message that everything is A-okay as is. Hrm.

Hardly feel you can say that about GT5 considering $60-80 million was spent on developing the game. I can't think of any racing game that has had such a large budget.

I doubt Sony is particularly happy with the sum of money that's been sunk into development. Considering it's cost far, far more than any of the previous GT's, I imagine they hope it will sell considerably more too to make that up. Something tells me GT5 is unlikely to outsell juggernauts like GT3, though. Not because of the quality of the game even; just the installed user base of the PS3, and there have been people who have just given up the wait. It will still sell well, of course.

You can call this game half ass if you want but based on what i've seen it looks a stunning game. Im a realist who realises it would of been impossible to model all cars to premium standard plus have all the wonderful features that GT5 has. Also worth mentioning that in gameplay you cannot tell the difference between a grid consisting of standard/premium cars and this is based on those who have already played GT5.

I'm a realist too, who saw the same thing as you. We couldn't get all Premiums, that'd be ridiculous. I just wouldn't have minded not hitting that magical 1000 car number by dint of giving us limited-feature cars. I should be able to tell which tier I'm racing as soon as I bump one (or they bump me). If I see sad-face Land Rover in my rear-view, I'll know .

I would use these words to describe a certain game coming from Redmond, Washington, and the car company which makes and manages it.

Is there hope that Forza might one day reach the level of Gran Turismo, mostly free of bugs, and flaws carried over from the FIRST game?? I don't know, they haven't seen as interested in that as chucking games out the door on a two year rotation.

I associate myself with the remarks of IVORBIGUN. Especially since the main factor in this whole debate is Kazunori Yamauchi. You can replace Dan Greenawalt with any yahoo and Forza will most likely still be Forza, and the same for any game from Codemasters, Simbin, you name it.

But there are certain game companies which are headed by very unique visionaries, such as Ted Price and Insomniac, Hideo Kojima and Kojima Productions, and Kaz and his family which make up Polyphony Digital. And it seems that after a little vacation, Kaz and the lads are going to be hard at making the Gran Turismo game he originally wanted. More than likely, SONY will invest in the vision because they know a winning formula when it's staring in their face with 52 million sales. And counting, to say the least.

This is a good example of what I mean about bringing up the other games needlessly. An entire post basically dedicated to it. Dude, we know you have some irreparable bone to pick with FM3... head on over to the board for the game to grouch about it. You can't argue that the people who are critical over certain aspects of GT5 at least keep it to one board .

I just don't get why people hate GT5 so much when A they never played the game, B if you play Forza and like the game how can you not like GT5? Then people cry and whine talking about its a half ass game bla bla, or some people act like they are forced to buy the game. This is the funny part though on day one they go out and buy the game, I cant believed how people front on this forum.

Say games are food. Racing games are fruit. Just because I like apples doesn't necessarily mean I'll like oranges. Just because people like one game, doesn't mean they'll like the other, or vice-versa. It also means people can't only like one, something a lot of members seem to have a problem with. Even not owning FM3, just playing it, I've grown to appreciate certain aspects of it. Some aspects... less so. Same with GT. The fact some people turn it into a "Chevy vs Ford" kind of rivalry is just unfortunate.

Nobody's forcing me to buy the game, but the fact of the matter is if I want a game that focuses on realistic handling and a variety of cars (and the ability to tune them, performance-wise), on the PS3, I'd be sort of silly not to buy GT5

Usually logical arguments are conviently missed by some. I understand this is the standard vs premium thread, but dwelling on such a minute detail-- which is essentially standards lacking cockpit view-- is really worthless even talking about considering the scope of the game. And then considering cockpit view is essentially an obstructed bumper view, it becomes an even more moot battle.

It's a minute detail for you. People talk about GT's realism but quickly dismiss what arguably adds more realism to the game. Yeah, the cockpits take up some screen real-estate, and it might feel odd to have two wheels in-front of you (I'll admit, if we could get rid of the wheel/arm animation, it'd be pretty cool), but somehow I don't see anyone fussing about driving their invisible car from "not-quite-bumper" view. An actual bumper view isn't any more accurate, either.

Like so many other things in this thread though, different strokes.

 

[JDMKING13]

Say games are food. Racing games are fruit. Just because I like apples doesn't necessarily mean I'll like oranges. Just because people like one game, doesn't mean they'll like the other, or vice-versa. It also means people can't only like one, something a lot of members seem to have a problem with. Even not owning FM3, just playing it, I've grown to appreciate certain aspects of it. Some aspects... less so. Same with GT. The fact some people turn it into a "Chevy vs Ford" kind of rivalry is just unfortunate.

Nobody's forcing me to buy the game, but the fact of the matter is if I want a game that focuses on realistic handling and a variety of cars (and the ability to tune them, performance-wise), on the PS3, I'd be sort of silly not to buy GT5

Slip I feel you man and I also have a lot of respect for you. I'm not going to front either you have taught me many things in are heated arguments over the days. 👍 One thing I like about you Slip is you don't front man. I understand what your saying about the fruit, but even in Forza and being a Forza fan since FM1 the game has not made drastic changes IMO. There is many things I wish they changed and upgraded, however I still enjoy the game and try to take the positives from it. When i'm on FM forums I don't cry and say this should be better this should be blah blah. Don't get me wrong I still post things like I wish they had 12 car grids etc, but IMO when being on the forums its about having a good time with the communities yes lets acknowledged the negatives on the game so we can give some positive feedback to the developers to make the game better. Some people on this forums though just cry to much for me and 90% of the time talk about the negatives. Its cool though thats their right, and i will not communicate with those folks. all I was saying everybody talks about wanting to play the best racing game and I agree. This is why I own a Xbox so I can play FM3 because its another great racing game I can experience. So saying that I just don't get how people can love FM3 but then hate on GT5 they are both great racing games with GT5 IMO being better.

I get called a fanboy which is shocking because you can read my post history and see I post positive things about FM3 that GT5 dont have and things I don't like about GT5. Makes you go hmm, but what ever i'm looking forward to learn some photo tips from you, this is an aspect of my game I want to improve Sip.

 

[Lucas]

I just don't get why people hate GT5 so much when A they never played the game, B if you play Forza and like the game how can you not like GT5? Then people cry and whine talking about its a half ass game bla bla, or some people act like they are forced to buy the game. This is the funny part though on day one they go out and buy the game, I cant believed how people front on this forum.

I just don't get why people call people who criticize GT5 with reason are called GT5 haters.

One person in this page criticized the author of the article to be biased, when all he said seemed pretty true to me. Moreover, said guy who criticized the author also said the following things, regarding absence of Porsche in GT5, but presence of RUF:

Same body, same chassis. If it looks like a Porsche, sounds like a Porsche, drives like a Porsche, but does not have the Porsche name, is it not still a Porsche? Or is that little nameplate really that important?

lol Steve. RUF = Porsche!

Seriously? Some people seem to go that far to defend GT5.



On the other hand, I perfectly get why people who constantly bash another game irrelevant to the discussion for no apparent reason other than to make GT5's flaws look acceptable are called GT fanboys. Or when throw the words "Forza troll" here and there, all the time. You don't have to look far in this thread to find some of said fanboys.

And if you read my user title, you will know exactly how I feel about standard cars, and what I thought Kaz's face would look like when we find out about how limited standard cars really are. That opinion would be very different if you could at least change the wheels on them.

 

[HuskyGT]

Like most bad things in life, I´ve just learned to live with it. I was really pissed and it took me like a week to accept it, but right now it doesn´t bother me anymore. Just like any GT game, there is always something that will dissapoint you, but you learn to live with it.

Right now I can´t even tell how excited I am about having the game the next week. You all should be

 

[Devedander]

Hardly feel you can say that about GT5 considering $60-80 million was spent on developing the game. I can't think of any racing game that has had such a large budget.

You can call this game half ass if you want but based on what i've seen it looks a stunning game. Im a realist who realises it would of been impossible to model all cars to premium standard plus have all the wonderful features that GT5 has. Also worth mentioning that in gameplay you cannot tell the difference between a grid consisting of standard/premium cars and this is based on those who have already played GT5.

No doubt you will ignore my post and continue to be negative. Funny how I still haven't seen one positive post from you in the other threads. I imagine you will continue to be negative on these forums whilst the rest of us are enjoying playing GT5.

The irony is that I have said multiple times (I think probably even direclty to you) that I do post in the postive on some subjects and even gave examples and explained why I post the negative things I do. Do I post on the negative more? At GTP and lately especially the answer is very much yes! Either I am a negative nelly, or there are legitimate reasons. The fact I back up my thoughts and posts with logical arguments and evidents I think tells you which of those is the fact.

But then I am not surprised you have conveniently missed thoses posts

As for this post, I do see that they have spent a lot of money... $$$ spent is (obviuosly) not the only measure of what is getting done and if it takes more money or different use of that money, that's part of what I think would need to be brought up.

Not to mention there is such a thing as a moneypit... ever see a house that cost 1.5 mill to build but is honestly only worth 800k? Not saying this is necessarily the case, but with a little better management of assets and time I wouldn't have been surprised to see a much fuller and complete game come out of 80mill and 6 years.

BTW I constantly see people reminding us of what GT5 DOES have and how that proves it's the greatest because no other game has those things to that level... but that's a flawed argument because you can pick almost any game and say it has things no other game has... look at the list of what GT5 has certainly! But then also recognize how truly inovative it is and how fully it's implimented... then honestly look at what GT5 doesn't have and you will see why saying "GT has this and this and this" is not in and of itself enough of an argument to excuse everything else.

For instance:

Livery Editor (Forza obviously amongst others)
20 Cars on track at once with day/night transition and changing weather (24 Hour Leman on DREAMCAST none the less)
Open world map driving (Burnout Paradis, TDU amongst others)
Cops and Robbers style chases, traffic check, crash mode, other variations of game play (Burnout and NFS series)
Tunnel vision simulation (Noteably NFS shift recently)
Full track editor (Modnation, Test Drive VRally (again the latter on Dreamcast)
You could pick features for days...

Any game can be made to sound good if you choose what it does and then use that as the metric for what's good. It's a form of confirmation bias... doens't mean much on it's own.

This brings me to a weird conundrum: on one hand, I want PD (and Sony) to know my criticisms, in the hopes of an improved experience the next game. I do still have faith they can do it, and want to see them do it. On the other hand, buying the current game as a sign of continued support can send the message that everything is A-okay as is. Hrm.

The best I can come up with is be vocal about it in places like this... certainly PD pays attention. I can't believe the GTP damage poll didn't have some weight on the decision to push for damage in GT5 amongst other issues... Many seem to have an idea of Kaz sitting in solitary like a Buddah creating his masterpieces, but ultimately they certainly pay attention to feedback.

Obviously your pocketbook is your strongest weapon, just don't buy, but that is the extreme in this situation. I opt to buy only on noteable sale (how much that passes back to PD is questionable but certainly if less money is made on a sale then the ripples travel back up the line, perhaps indirectly) or buy used/second hand. I guess the ultimate insult would be to pirate if possible but that's a whole nother story.

But when it comes to voting with the pocket book, realistically it becomes a case of "anything better than the bear minimum to keep me from NOT buying will earn 100% of my money" and as such it's not a very valuable message to pass along as "all or nothing" rarely is.

 

[mva5580]

I just don't get why people call people who criticize GT5 with reason are called GT5 haters.

One person in this page criticized the author of the article to be biased, when all he said seemed pretty true to me. Moreover, said guy who criticized the author also said the following things, regarding absence of Porsche in GT5, but presence of RUF:

Seriously? Some people seem to go that far to defend GT5.

On the other hand, I perfectly get why people who constantly bash another game irrelevant to the discussion for no apparent reason other than to make GT5's flaws look acceptable are called GT fanboys. Or when throw the words "Forza troll" here and there, all the time. You don't have to look far in this thread to find some of said fanboys.

And if you read my user title, you will know exactly how I feel about standard cars, and what I thought Kaz's face would look like when we find out about how limited standard cars really are. That opinion would be very different if you could at least change the wheels on them.

You sound way too logical and reasonable for this board.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Well you know what the answer is don't you Devedander don't buy GT5.

I fully understand why some are disappointed with the car/track list but this debate about standard/premium cars is getting boring. We have known about the limited number of premium cars in GT5 for a very long time which is why this whole debate is getting tedious.

When you actually played GT5 you can then turn round and make comments about what PD have been doing these past 6yrs. However until we play the game nobody can make any comment.

Devedander constant moaning reminds me of a certain person lol.

 

[Devedander]

Well you know what the answer is don't you Devedander don't buy GT5.

I fully understand why some are disappointed with the car/track list but this debate about standard/premium cars is getting boring. We have known about the limited number of premium cars in GT5 for a very long time which is why this whole debate is getting tedious.

When you actually played GT5 you can then turn round and make comments about what PD have been doing these past 6yrs. However until we play the game nobody can make any comment.

Devedander constant moaning reminds me of a certain person lol.

If you actually read what I posted you would see my approach was somewhere in the middle... buy the game but at a price which feels like it's still a good value to me and hopefully (even if indirectly) send a message I am not interested in getting it full price.

But I am not surprised you didn't really pay attention... the truth get's in the way of your fanatasy world beliefs I am sure

And as I said, all or nothing is not often the best way to go... much like waiting a long time to go to your favorite steakhouse only to find out their sides and desert now suck, one is left making the choice of being totally without, or bending over and taking it to get the steak they were after for so long even if the trimmings are now sorely dissapointing.

But it doesn't mean we should encourage apologists or the behavior if we don't want the next visit to said steakhouse to be similarly dissapointing... after all, who spends money on top notch ingredients and chefs when the customers rave about the frozen deep fried stuff?

The argument "well then don't do it!" is tossed around in many areas and is just as worthless in almost all of them... sure a vote with your dollars sounds like the strongest act, but really it's not... the strongest act is to voice your opinion so that it can be heard by others and if the sentiment is common, the group voice will come across quite loudly.

Sure a hit in sales might sound mightier, but how do you quantify the number of people who didn't buy something? How do you know how many WOULD have sold had things been different? As complex as the video game market is, a few millions sales this way or that could easily be written off to any cause... was it bad marketing, time of year, competitive products, was it this feature, that feature, is the market just more/less saturated? Or did we just over/underestimate the number of sales that "should" have happened?

But people saying what they think and voicing their opinions is unmistakable and sends a far better message, the message is:

I don't like what you did this time, but I believe in your ability to and want you to work towards these ends. I have purchased your product, filled your coffers and now remind you that the consumer writes your paycheck, listen to what the consumer wants.

It's not as nice an escape as "well don't do it then!" but then when someone says the TSA naked body scanners aren't a big deal because "don't fly then!" it doesn't really come across as the best argument does it?

Then again... your strong point doesn't seem to be making the best argument so I'm not surprised

PS wait till you play it... sure... basically if it's negative, there is always some reason to write it off until later... wait for the next game show, wait for the next demo, wait for the next interview, wait for the pre release leaks... wait for the final release... wait for the DLC...

Do you wait until after the elections to talk about what politicians you think are bad? Since when is that good logic?

How bout we talk about what we see before us now, and YOU wait to dismiss what we see until YOU play it? It's only a few more days.. surely you can stop whining about people who are dissapointed for that long? Well I guess to be honest your track record says no, but I can hope right?

 

[Dapper]

One person saying the same thing 10,000 times is no different than that one person saying it once, in this case.

 

[Devedander]

One person saying the same thing 10,000 times is no different than that one person saying it once, in this case.

If the person says it to 9,000 different people and repeats it to a handful of people who also say only their own same things themselves, isn't that a little different?

Surely you would agree that a man on a corner saying something 10,000 times to people who pass is not the same as saying it once. Just becuase you stood next to that corner the whole time, it doesn't mean he was only talking to you.

People seem to think that just because YOU have read the same thing over and over and it's nothing new to you, it's nothing new to anyone else and thus has no value...

How many times have people said "wait until the next ___________ then you will see!" only to have the next __________ reveal actually something else dissapointing? Yet I don't see the same rally cry about that...

 

[Dapper]

People voice their opinion. Just because you sit around and refute every person's opinion with your own opinion does not invalidate their opinion, nor does it make you opinion any stronger.

People on a corner? PD is one 'person', try again...

 

[Rdp616]

Umm.. pointless..

Woah, negative nancy. Pointless how? Yeah it's pointless if noone signs it. Man, how many ignorant dick's can you have on one forum...

 

[steve30x]

I think the premiums look like crap and the standards look out of this world good.

 

[jonny_goddard]

I think the premiums look like crap and the standards look out of this world good.

Ummmmm............ okaaaaay?

 

[gtracedriver]

Well you know what the answer is don't you Devedander don't buy GT5.

I fully understand why some are disappointed with the car/track list but this debate about standard/premium cars is getting boring. We have known about the limited number of premium cars in GT5 for a very long time which is why this whole debate is getting tedious.

When you actually played GT5 you can then turn round and make comments about what PD have been doing these past 6yrs. However until we play the game nobody can make any comment.

Devedander constant moaning reminds me of a certain person lol.

Well you shouldn't take him seriously. This is his fav thread and he trolls real hard. This thread is more than 100days old. Let's say he makes 2-3 post in this thread that means 200-300posts in this thread alone. If Webmaster can check somehow I won't be surprised if he has more than 500posts moaning and complaining over it in this thread

I can understand people disappointment over standard cars but making hundreds of post isn't it too much. I think he should get banned otherwise he will go on to make more than thousands of post here and it is really annoying

 

[GT]

some deal different with disappointment...I accept that some things cannot be changed and don't waste energy on it when I can use that energy for something worthwhile.

 

[Devedander]

People voice their opinion. Just because you sit around and refute every person's opinion with your own opinion does not invalidate their opinion, nor does it make you opinion any stronger.

People on a corner? PD is one 'person', try again...

No neither side is legitimized through repetition... but rather through logical and rational reasoning.

But maybe we are talking about diferent things... I wasn't refering to PD as who is getting talked to... I was referring to the fact many people are on this forum, see over and over again "MY POINT OF VIEW" every day for months and think "SHUT UP I already saw your point of view, you don't need to repeate it anymore!" ignoring the fact that they are saying it to different people each time about different things... so like a person on a corner saying their piece to each passer by, if you heard him all day you would think he is an idiot and repeating himself, but to each new person he says it to, that's the first time he said it.

Well you shouldn't take him seriously. This is his fav thread and he trolls real hard. This thread is more than 100days old. Let's say he makes 2-3 post in this thread that means 200-300posts in this thread alone. If Webmaster can check somehow I won't be surprised if he has more than 500posts moaning and complaining over it in this thread

I searched for posts by me in this thread and it comes up exactly 100 which seems like an oddly round number so maybe it maxes out at 100...

I always love it when people try to make it out like posting a lot to a forum makes you somehow bad... like high post count is wrong or should be punished... it's a forum...

It's almost as silly as when someone makes fun of a poster for being a video game nerd when they are posting on a video game forum... it's kind of what the forum is for.

So this is GTP which is for talk and speculation of GT5 (in this subsection at least) and that's what I am doing. Perhaps not how you like it but that's how it is...

You on the other hand are talking about a poster and how it bothers you... which is not what the forum is for and calling for a member to be banned because you don't like his style is tacky to say the least and I wouldn't be surprised if somehow outside the AUP.

I can understand people disappointment over standard cars but making hundreds of post isn't it too much. I think he should get banned otherwise he will go on to make more than thousands of post here and it is really annoying

Well then make your own forum, I will join it, complain about something and you can ban me. Will that make you happy? Sheesh... talk about whiney... how about instead of whining about what I post, you either post something valuable or just ignore me?

 

[Dapper]

No neither side is legitimized through repetition... but rather through logical and rational reasoning.

But maybe we are talking about diferent things... I wasn't refering to PD as who is getting talked to...

Obviously your pocketbook is your strongest weapon, just don't buy, but that is the extreme in this situation. I opt to buy only on noteable sale (how much that passes back to PD is questionable but certainly if less money is made on a sale then the ripples travel back up the line, perhaps indirectly) or buy used/second hand. I guess the ultimate insult would be to pirate if possible but that's a whole nother story.

But when it comes to voting with the pocket book, realistically it becomes a case of "anything better than the bear minimum to keep me from NOT buying will earn 100% of my money" and as such it's not a very valuable message to pass along as "all or nothing" rarely is.

Ok, you are on a bad roll today.

 

[kyve]

About the problem with rims in standars cars maybe the rims redesign to fit perfect in premium cars and maybe cant fit in standard because have less polygons than premium

Sorry for bad english....

 

[Devedander]

Ok, you are on a bad roll today.

No I was just reading your post as the normal "whine about how negative people just keep spouting the same stuff over and over on this forum" (which is ironically quite frequently said around here). Since you didn't quote anything in particular the only reference I had was that that same sentiment has popped up many times on this forum about people who are percieved as only having one thing to say but saying it over and over.

It appears you were trying to reply to something (quotes help BTW as you seem to have figured out now) about voicing your opinion to PD I don't think you understand how it works... Since KY isn't actually here to debate with us, we debate amongst ourselves... I am saying the same thing to many people... I am not directly saying it to KY or PD since they aren't here participating.

If I was writing a letter to KY or sending him an email, I wouldn't send 10,000 copies.

But let's take an actual look at the scenario of say 10,000 people at a rally or even talking to the actual person in charge all saying something once, or 10,000 people chanting the same thing over and over. Which as more impact? Did you ever wonder why people chant at rallys and demonstrations? It's not what I was suggesting we do, but you couldn't be more wrong on both fronts.

If you honestly don't understand the diference and how a debate or discourse between differing views draws attention to the fact that the issues exists and is a significant concern, then I fear there is not much I can do for you... you will need a little more common sense before I can impart any actual relevant information on you.

 

[shadynader]

Hey Dev....

Remember you quoted some dude in your sig about rewind.........

Bad news......

Oh, and one very important thing for the very end - almost forgotten in lights of news - there is no Rewind Thank you Kazunori-san, ありがとうございました.

 

[Devedander]

Hey Dev....

Remember you quoted some dude in your sig about rewind.........

Bad news......

Yup we had a bet... he bet Kaz would never inpliment rewind. Looser had to buy the other a playseat. I took that bet because I had forever... but when the ground got shakey and it looked like rewind might be in he back peddled faster... than something that can backpeddle really fast...

I definitely remember.... it's not so much bad news because he chickend out a long time ago and as much as said he would never have paid up anyway... sucks.... I want a playseat but not $300 bad...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I searched for posts by me in this thread and it comes up exactly 100 which seems like an oddly round number so maybe it maxes out at 100...

Funnily enough:

Devedander: 481
JDMKING13: 449

...and I'm third

 

[Spagetti69]

We've all known about the standard premium issue for awhile. At some point the line was blurred, just ask king.

When the game releases there will be many many more who just discover it when they first play.

I think this thread will get quite busy.

 

[Devedander]

Funnily enough:

Devedander: 481
JDMKING13: 449

...and I'm third

And unless I am mistaken JDM King has been as staunch in his position if not more than either of us...

We've all known about the standard premium issue for awhile. At some point the line was blurred, just ask king.

When the game releases there will be many many more who just discover it when they first play.

I think this thread will get quite busy.

I was talking to my buddy just yesterday who knows I am a GT fan and he said he saw a video with the release date and it looked awesome so he was seeing if I knew any deals on PS3s right now. I told him watch for Black Friday, I would think something will come along, btw did you know about standard and premium? He said yea, premiums would be DLC cars and standards would be included in the game.

I pointed him towards some pictures of standards and premiums and what they meant... he pretty much on the spot decided to go ahead and just spend his money on Black Ops and a stereo for his car instead.

The point being that while we sit here and debate whether graphics are more or less important than driving physics and how awesome GT driving physics will be, a large percentage of the market is sold on little more than a video and a blurb and a large percentage of them don't care about driving physics...