Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Luminis]

Personally I find it rather impressive that people bother to use their time to criticise something they have never tried yet. People have their right to opinions, but in alot of cases people act like they have all the facts at hand, yet know more or less nothing.

Knowing the features available (or the lack thereof), for example, is something you can and will know fully well before the game is released. So yeah, that is having facts at hand. Some people are acting like having perfect phisics somehow makes the lack of features disappear.

People are free to talk like they wish, but doing so without having put some time down in the product at hand don't really make sense to me. It's like pulling air out of your behind and demand that a random new car is horrible, because the hood looks wrong,and therefor surely the rest of it must be just as bad.

They look at the car, think it looks bad and say it looks bad (to them). What's wrong with that? No matter how it drives, it still looks the same. When I first saw the Veyron, I thought it was ugly. I still think it's ugly after seeing it in real life. And driving one wouldn't change my opinion on it being ugly. So what's your point?

Random stuff aside, call me a GT white knight if you must. At least most of us come here because it's GT planet, after all, not Whine and Cry central. Would people still be crying over stuff if they had not seen anything about the game untill it came out, had played for a day or two, then came back to the forums to talk about it? I think not. At least very few would. Most would be full of joy over the amazing graphics, the even more amazing physics and all you can do inbetween.

So, having awesome physics makes cars look better and enables them to do more stuff? Awesome.

 

[Greyum]

I have solved the problem of no cockpit in standard view!

I made this last night because I was tired of hearing all the bickering about this subject. It only took me like an hour to make. I customized it by putting the Evil Monkey from Family Guy on the steering wheel. All you have to do is use the bumper cam. lol

Brilliant!

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Personally I find it rather impressive that people bother to use their time to criticise something they have never tried yet. People have their right to opinions, but in alot of cases people act like they have all the facts at hand, yet know more or less nothing.
.

Ever looked at a menu in an ethnic restaurant and read a description of something that seems less than appetizing? Sure you have...and you didn't order it.

But the case of GT5 is a bit different. It's expecting a burger at a fast-food joint to look just like it does in the advertisements but upon further inspection, it looks like a small grease cake.

There's plenty of 'facts' out there and there's plenty of reasons to question PD & GT5. Look at the car list, track list, and features you cannot use when in a standard car. Ya, people are a little perturbed. They expected a magnificent juicy burger, but instead they feel like they are being served something that died screaming with a side of fries.

 

[gaming25]

>Devedander trolls real hard
>Devedander trolls
>Devedander

Does not compute.

May I ask you why do you think Devedander is trolling? Could you cite examples too? I'll wait.



King is a pretty cool guy. eh discusses with Devedander and doesnt afraid of anything.

(Sorry, had to do it)



It's funny how some things you say could apply to you if you switched two games in that sentence.

By the way, why should he say anything bad about Forza in the first place if this is a thread dedicated to GT5?







A: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.
B: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.
1: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.
2: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.
X: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.
Y...: Be able to change wheels on standard cars.

Is that really asking too much? Really? All I ever wanted, all I ever needed, were standard cars that were not inferior in any form to GT4 cars. You want my list of what I wanted for GT5? Here you have it, you decide if I was asking too much:

1 - GT4 cars plus more.
2 - GT4 tracks plus more.
3 - GT4 features plus more.
4 - Better physics than GT4.

And the less important thing I wanted:

5 - Better graphics than GT4. (20.000 polygons per car was more than acceptable, considering GT4's cars had in average 4.000 per car and they look pretty good, as you have said so many times.) Keep in mind I'm not mentioning cockpit because it was not in GT4, and I never asked for something that wasn't in GT4 that were not cars or tracks.

So, what did we get from that? Certainly not 1 and not 2, which means a lot to me. And a new thing to ask for GT6 after seeing this standard vs premium issue:

6 - Every car and track to be equal.

I'm sorry for asking too much, PD. :sad:



Someone who understands. Finaly.





Sorry to everyone who has to skip through this. The hypocrisy in this thread has gone way too far.

Wheels have already been a cosmetic addition, and one you can barely ever see during a race. Why you are moaning about it not being in the game to the extent that you are is beyond me.

And if it was really easy to do all of the things that you wanted in the game, idk, wouldnt it actually be in the game?

"1 - GT4 cars plus more.
2 - GT4 tracks plus more.
So, what did we get from that? Certainly not 1 and not 2, which means a lot to me. "

Actually you have gotten #1, there are more cars, with better graphics and improved physics. And let me address #2, this is what all games do, they take away old tracks, but guess what, they give you new ones!!!!! New tracks that arent old and ones that havent run its course (no pun intended). Plus a track editor.

"I'm sorry for asking too much, PD. :sad:"

When you realize that adding the things you asked for were unnecessary and wouldve taken the game until 2012 to come out, then you should realize that you are asking for too much.

 

[gaming25]

Ever looked at a menu in an ethnic restaurant and read a description of something that seems less than appetizing? Sure you have...and you didn't order it.

But the case of GT5 is a bit different. It's expecting a burger at a fast-food joint to look just like it does in the advertisements but upon further inspection, it looks like a small grease cake.

There's plenty of 'facts' out there and there's plenty of reasons to question PD & GT5. Look at the car list, track list, and features you cannot use when in a standard car. Ya, people are a little perturbed. They expected a magnificent juicy burger, but instead they feel like they are being served something that died screaming with a side of fries.

They are still getting the same magnificent game, because if what you said was the case, then Forza 3 should be considered dog crap.

 

[analog]

There is a difference between critiquing and complaining. There are recommendation threads and wish lists that people can make on this forum. But people saying that the game is awful or wont be of quality (like many posts in this thread say) is ridiculous.

What you're describing is the difference between complaining and suggesting different things you'd like to see in recommendation threads and wishlists.
Being critical about the two-tier system is also saying you'd like to see it differently though, not by adding stuff but by removing inferior stuff.
Somehow this is more controversial to some people (depending on whether you regard them as inferior that is) although the same can be said of a lot of suggestions to add more stuff in my opinion.

The game overall will probably be a quality product but unlike previous GT's I'll make a carefull selection of its content regarding cars (I want killer, no filler) based on whether they're Premium or Standard, sorry can't help it.
And yes I do think the two-tier system affects the overall quality of the game and am therefore very critical of it, although I still do look forward to GT5.
I hate this two-tier system in fact, and wish the Standard cars simply weren't there for the sake of coherency and overall consistent quality being more important than reaching the magic number of a 1000 cars but guess what, yesterday I finally decided to pre-order GT5 and it will arrive on my doormat next Wednesday.

All the new features like day/night, weather, tons of tracks (well compared to Prologue at least), coursemaker, etc. and about 220 cars will keep me busy for a long while and even though I know I will enjoy the game I keep being critical of this aspect.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

At this point, the "no wheels change" for standards isn't just disappointing, its absolutely pathetic.

Almost 6 yrs. we've been waiting for this freakin game!

No livery editor and they can't throw in some wheels?
Pathetic.

Its a 200 car game and has never been anything else.

This only serves to reinforce my biggest concern about the marriage of Sony and PD. The influence of hype and fluff over the very soul of the game.

Yeah but its got 3D baby!
Well whoopee do.

Deavedander has bee ntrolling around in this thread since it's existed. And has been bashing standard cars since. Standard cars could come with free beer for a year, a sex hole, and a million dollars, and he would still bash them.

Maybe so, but I gotta give him credit for one thing; Unlike many on this thread, if you give him s*** on a stick smothered with mustard he's still gonna know what it is.

 

[Instrumental]

I just think it's a glass half full or half empty situation. If you're like me, you see the premium cars as a bonus, if you're not, you see the standards as incomplete. Just a matter of perspective on the same thing really.

 

[adramire]

Not being able to change wheels on standards is just lame, anyone that says it is no big deal is a huge fanboy and is not being honest.

 

[X-Power]

Out of curiosity, have PD given a reason as to why standard cars can't have their wheels changed? I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's because the high detail wheels would make the body of the car look worse?

 

[Tenacious D]

Every time someone dares to criticise the game, a GT white knight will jump at his throat and try to shut him up. Devedander being accused of trolling is just one example of this.

Well, it doesn't happen just with Gran Turismo, now does it?

Just notice how often some of us are told that criticizing a certain other game is irrelevant, pointless and tiresome, even if it's brought up a number of times as the better product, and a model to follow. Even farming out work as Turn 10 have done is stated as something Kaz should have done, with no regard to the consequences of T10's decision. It's this arbitrary perfect case scenario in which every other game company seems to be able to go to a shack in Burma, write a check with two or three zeroes in it, and come away with hundreds of impeccably modeled cars perfectly suited to the company's nifty new game engine, and not a bug to be found.

If every other game company produced perfect games that featured everything we wanted, I'd own those games, and tell Kaz, "Uhm... maybe I'll get this after the first price drop, and then we can talk when you get serious in GT6."

But see, those games don't exist. There are really good racing games. Forza, obviously being the closest thing in comparison, is about our only serious alternative. And I have played a lot of all three. Well... sort of. FM1 I played about 8 months total. FM2 about 10 months. FM3.... two. I didn't stop playing what should have been the ultimate Forza so soon because GT4 or Prologue were oh so much better in every way, or any of my other racers for that matter. I quit because Microsoft is Microsoft, and finds a way to somehow ruin something in almost everything they make.

Yes, Forza is a neat series. Of course, Forza is also Gran Turismo American Style. And no, I'm not telling anyone that Forza is poo and shouldn't exist (MS itself is another story). Yes, Forza does a couple of game things other game makers could stand to incorporate, like their Livery Editor and the Drivatar structure in FM1. But no, I don't consider it the Holy Grail of racing games.

Just think if GT5 had some of the same flaws and bugs ported through three games, or had some of the really BAD issues with Forza, like do this and it gets you permabanned from the PSN, until you convince someone at SONY to undo it. Or it could take hours to get a handful of pics uploaded, and then they were messed up. If this happened, I think millions would run screaming from it, and it would sell at Forza levels.

"I can't believe we can't buy wheels for Standards... what good are they!"

In my case, most of the cars I'll want to own are Standards, so obviously they mean a lot to me. This is up to you guys to decide how valuable they are or aren't. But I think not being able to swap rims is a pretty thin reason to pee on them.

"What has Kaz been doing for six years!"

There are literally thousands of people hanging on every word coming from a certain Croatian, anxious to know the details of that very thing, and most of them are delighted with every bit of news that he reveals. Evidently the rest of the game outside of the matter of Standard car wheels and missing cockpits is looking just a little bit stupendous.

This posing as if every other game is chuck full of awesome and only GT5 is disappointing will win points with some folk, but we all don't see the playing field that way.

 

[Luminis]

Well, it doesn't happen just with Gran Turismo, now does it?

[...]
FORZA
FORZA
FORZA
More FORZA
[...]

This is a thread about Gran Turimso. About an issue with Gran Turismo, to be precise. For the most part, whenever FOrza was brought up, it was in direkt comparison to a single feature in GRan Turismo. Of course, thr models that were created by farming the work out are nowhere near the level of premium cars. Not at all. However, they are better in terms of visual quality and availability of features. Hence, pointing out that, instead of just using GT4's cars as Standards, going with Turn10's idea of just farming the work out seems rather natural. It doesn't mean Forza is the better overakk game. It just means that there are a few parts that GT5 could have picked up there. Having a livery editor doesn't make Forza a better game, but it means it hsa a better Forza editor than Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo 5 would be a better game if it had Forza's livery editor. Anyways, I haven't seen a lot of people defending Forza, at least not as being an impeccable game or whatever. But yeah, it did some things right, it did some things better than GT and I honestly wonder what's so hard about admitting that. Again, I'm not saying it's the better game, at all. It has a crapload of flaws and issues, but this, most certainly isn't the thread to bring all of them up just to point out that one is not considering it to be the better game.

Anyways, Gran Turismo not being the only game that's adamantly defended doesn't make it any better that people are having a go at anyone to shut down justified criticism. Not in my book, anyways.
Forza isn't an excuse for anything, really. "Forza is worse than that!" isn't going to add anything to Gran Turismo. It won't imrpvoe the standard cars, it won't improve the customisation, no nothing.

"I can't believe we can't buy wheels for Standards... what good are they!"

In my case, most of the cars I'll want to own are Standards, so obviously they mean a lot to me. This is up to you guys to decide how valuable they are or aren't. But I think not being able to swap rims is a pretty thin reason to pee on them.

Because lacking the ability to have their rims changed is the only thing that was pointed out by those who oppose standard cars. We were reduced to graphic whores when it was about the looks, crappy racers when it was about cockpit view, ricers when it is about modification, crah kids when it's about the damage model. Add all of that and, in my opnion, you have a pretty valid reason to dislike them, without being a 'hater'.

"What has Kaz been doing for six years!"

There are literally thousands of people hanging on every word coming from a certain Croatian, anxious to know the details of that very thing, and most of them are delighted with every bit of news that he reveals. Evidently the rest of the game outside of the matter of Standard car wheels and missing cockpits is looking just a little bit stupendous.

And because everything else is great, that's a reason to not being allowed to criticise what's not great about the game? That kinda logic doesn't fly with me, sorry. Not at all.

This posing as if every other game is chuck full of awesome and only GT5 is disappointing will win points with some folk, but we all don't see the playing field that way.

Dunno about everyone, but as far as I am concerned, I freely admit that Gran Turismo will still be my game of choice. And I can freely admit that it's the best of its kind in my opnion. Blowing Forza and every other racing game out of the water is, again, something that I fully expect GT5 to do and I am indeed willing to admit that much.

And while I can't speak for others, and probably shouldn't, I haven't seem that many of the other guys opposing the standard cars claiming Gran Turismo to be a bad game. Disappointing because it didn't live up to the hype, because we expected more out of a GT game and because PD was very, well, careful with what they wanted to showcase about the game for a long time, yes, that's true. But if you look at some of those who did post negative comment in this thread a lot, like analog, Lucas, Toronado, SlipZtrEm or myself, none of those people actually said they hated the game. On the contrary, as far as I remember, everyone was voicing that, despite being disappointed, despite expecting more, they're going to get it.

Sorry to the users I mentioned specifically in my post, I didn't mean to speak on your behalf without your consent or anything, I just thought that it might be a somewhat important point to make.

 

[Devedander]

I just think it's a glass half full or half empty situation. If you're like me, you see the premium cars as a bonus, if you're not, you see the standards as incomplete. Just a matter of perspective on the same thing really.

The glass is twice as big as it needed to be

 

[Instrumental]

Darn engineers!

 

[analog]

Sorry to the users I mentioned specifically in my post, I didn't mean to speak on your behalf without your consent or anything, I just thought that it might be a somewhat important point to make.

I can only speak for myself that it doesn't bother me being mentioned as it's accurate, I did post a lot of negative posts in this thread (or hopefully constructive criticism as I see it) and to be honest, this is the first major issue I've ever had with any GT-game, all other issues seem very minor and irrelevant in comparison.
And like you said, those who you mentioned and yourself aren't therefore going to criticize the whole game, in fact I've seen most (if not all) praising and enthused by many other aspects of the game.
It simply isn't as black and white as people make it out to be (buy or don't buy for example), there are enough shades of grey as well, on this issue however my opinion is largely black and white meaning that if I were in charge I simply removed the Standard cars from GT5 but then again I'm obviously not.
Can't wait to finally play GT5, even when I choose to skip a large part of its content at least in the beginning.

 

[Lucas]

Wheels have already been a cosmetic addition, and one you can barely ever see during a race. Why you are moaning about it not being in the game to the extent that you are is beyond me.

It's the simplest form of customization GT's cars have had since the beginning (or at least GT2, never played GT1). I'm sorry, but Photomode is a feature that I enjoy a lot in GT4. Changing wheels in a car makes a huge difference in Photo travel, the right set makes the car look a million times better. You don't care about them? No prob, I do and a other people do too, that's why Premium cars can change their wheels.

And if it was really easy to do all of the things that you wanted in the game, idk, wouldnt it actually be in the game?

Really easy? I never said that. Easier than doing over 150 cars with over 200.000 polygons each? You bet it is, it's common sense. Put it this way: would have it been easier to do 200 cars of 10.000 polygons each or 200 cars of over 200.000 polygons each? If the cars are the same, the answer should be obvious. Adding one track or two can't be that difficult if you import all the previous tracks from GT4 and add two or three. Is that really that difficult? Have them all be in the same conditions, and you are set for rule number 6. Weather? I don't need it. Day & night? Don't need them, though it would be a super cool addition.

Once again, which game would have been easier to make? Mine or PD's?

"1 - GT4 cars plus more.
2 - GT4 tracks plus more.
So, what did we get from that? Certainly not 1 and not 2, which means a lot to me. "

Actually you have gotten #1, there are more cars, with better graphics and improved physics. And let me address #2, this is what all games do, they take away old tracks, but guess what, they give you new ones!!!!! New tracks that arent old and ones that havent run its course (no pun intended). Plus a track editor.

Have I gotten #1? GT5's car list says "no". Unless you can find me some FPV cars in the list, I haven't gotten #1. All cars present in GT4 should be on GT5.

Have I gotten #2? No. I don't care what other games do. If every game decided to farm work to third world countries, should PD do it too? Once again, it wasn't a hard task compared to what has been done in GT5.

Better physics? Absolutely. Better graphics? Not the same quality for every car, therefore, *BZZZT*.

When you realize that adding the things you asked for were unnecessary and wouldve taken the game until 2012 to come out, then you should realize that you are asking for too much.

Adding cars while keeping the ones in GT4 was unnecessary? Adding tracks while keeping the ones in GT4 was unnecessary?

How could my ideal GT5 (which mind you, is much more simpler than the real GT5) could have taken two more years to be released? Mate, why you don't understand this is beyond me.

And if it was really easy to do all of the things that you wanted in the game, idk, wouldnt it actually be in the game?

Except that people would consider my version of the game to be worse than the actual GT5, including Kazunori Yamauchi. That's the other side of the coin: my game wasn't harder to make, it's just that Kazunori's ambitions were much bigger. Happy with my answer?

Moreover, the GT5 I would have made would have taken less time to make. If you can argument why it would have taken more time, feel free to explain. I'm listening.

I repeat: I'm sorry for asking too much, PD.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Dunno about everyone, but as far as I am concerned, I freely admit that Gran Turismo will still be my game of choice. And I can freely admit that it's the best of its kind in my opnion. Blowing Forza and every other racing game out of the water is, again, something that I fully expect GT5 to do and I am indeed willing to admit that much.

And while I can't speak for others, and probably shouldn't, I haven't seem that many of the other guys opposing the standard cars claiming Gran Turismo to be a bad game. Disappointing because it didn't live up to the hype, because we expected more out of a GT game and because PD was very, well, careful with what they wanted to showcase about the game for a long time, yes, that's true. But if you look at some of those who did post negative comment in this thread a lot, like analog, Lucas, Toronado, SlipZtrEm or myself, none of those people actually said they hated the game. On the contrary, as far as I remember, everyone was voicing that, despite being disappointed, despite expecting more, they're going to get it.

Sorry to the users I mentioned specifically in my post, I didn't mean to speak on your behalf without your consent or anything, I just thought that it might be a somewhat important point to make.

Snipped, but I agree with it all. I can't 👍 this enough.

The thing is, Luminis, is that it's possibly a lot easier for some members to overlook the fact that most of us "haters" are still buying the game (and that it is indeed our preferred racing/driving title). Or that we really are impressed with a great deal of GT5. Why overlook that? Because it's easier to create claims like these:

Just notice how often some of us are told that criticizing a certain other game is irrelevant, pointless and tiresome, even if it's brought up a number of times as the better product, and a model to follow. Better product?

...It's this arbitrary perfect case scenario in which every other game company seems to be able to go to a shack in Burma, write a check with two or three zeroes in it, and come away with hundreds of impeccably modeled cars perfectly suited to the company's nifty new game engine, and not a bug to be found... Nobody's come up with that but you.

...Just think if GT5 had some of the same flaws and bugs ported through three games... Which it has.

...This posing as if every other game is chuck full of awesome and only GT5 is disappointing will win points with some folk, but we all don't see the playing field that way...Doing the opposite is somehow more acceptable?

Hyperbole, thy name is TD.

"I can't believe we can't buy wheels for Standards... what good are they!"

In my case, most of the cars I'll want to own are Standards, so obviously they mean a lot to me. This is up to you guys to decide how valuable they are or aren't. But I think not being able to swap rims is a pretty thin reason to pee on them.

How about no Photo Travel (or the limited zoom ability in race replays)? How about a very limited, melty-butter damage model? How about (likely, though not 100%) no more aero mods than the handful of wings like GT4?

I'm sure these are all "thin reasons to pee on them", just as I'm sure if any more further issues with them arise, those will be too. That's great. There are people who've seen them adding up though, and I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed with them because of it, especially in light of what Premiums can do. I've been disappointed about the Standards since we knew exactly what they entailed (GT4-ness of it all), but I still said I'd be using them once in a while (just have a preference towards Premiums). But more and more exceptions and limitations are being made apparent.

Am I disappointed with the game as a whole? Can't tell you, since I don't have it yet. I am disappointed with some aspects that have come to light, and I don't need to play to decide on that (the missing features of Standards aren't going to magically appear when I put my copy in my PS3). I expected after such a long wait for GT5 to trounce other competitors in virtually all areas, whereas now it's looking like it will in certain ones, but still needing to play catch-up in others. Does it dampen my enthusiasm for next Wednesday? A bit... but I'm still plenty excited, for reasons past the Standards. I guess some members will always find it odd that some of us aren't enamored with every single aspect of the game (but overall, are definitely still fans).

 

[Lucas]

Dunno about everyone, but as far as I am concerned, I freely admit that Gran Turismo will still be my game of choice. And I can freely admit that it's the best of its kind in my opnion. Blowing Forza and every other racing game out of the water is, again, something that I fully expect GT5 to do and I am indeed willing to admit that much.

And while I can't speak for others, and probably shouldn't, I haven't seem that many of the other guys opposing the standard cars claiming Gran Turismo to be a bad game. Disappointing because it didn't live up to the hype, because we expected more out of a GT game and because PD was very, well, careful with what they wanted to showcase about the game for a long time, yes, that's true. But if you look at some of those who did post negative comment in this thread a lot, like analog, Lucas, Toronado, SlipZtrEm or myself, none of those people actually said they hated the game. On the contrary, as far as I remember, everyone was voicing that, despite being disappointed, despite expecting more, they're going to get it.

Sorry to the users I mentioned specifically in my post, I didn't mean to speak on your behalf without your consent or anything, I just thought that it might be a somewhat important point to make.

QFT, well said Luminis. 👍 You can always speak on my behalf, you seem to know me well.

 

[VXR]

I'm now more upset about not being able to add CSL wheels to other BMWs than I am with the standards being of lesser quality.

 

[-Cheezman-]

I third that. Except for the Forza part, because I don't own an Xbox, nor plan on owning one, so I don't know (or care) which is truly "better."

After watching a lot of the "leaked" videos, I've grown to accept GT5 despite it's short comings, because at the end of the day, it's still going to have the longevity that every other Gran Turismo shares.

 

[gtracedriver]

Photomode...


Let me get this straight: He should be banned. For discussing things. On a message board.


You say that as if it isn't possible for an opinion to be wrong. Fair enough for people who are posting about how they don't think the Standards are a big deal, or they aren't bothered by them or whatever (for example, even I honestly did not care about the Standards being what they were until I started hearing all of the stuff that PD excised excised from them within the past couple of weeks. I was, and to a lesser extent still am, truthfully looking forward to driving some of the carryovers with the GT5 physics engine). This thread didn't get to nearly 10,000 posts because of people expressing sentiments like that. However, I've seen an awful lot of opinions in this thread that were pretty patently untrue. You can't hide behind "its my opinion" if you were to say "the sky is blue," for example, and people doing things similar to that is why this thread is as long as it is.


Yes, it is a good thing that we have you to so valiantly and blindly defend them. Even those (several) times when it was colossally clear that you didn't know what you are talking about, you stood by them. It is quite commendable, such dedication.

No, I am saying how and why are people allowed to post not 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 but hundereds of post complaining about a game

Ok they have their opnions take 50 posts but stop after that. It is annoying for many users the same guys complaining over and over and over and over again Some one will come and post why he hates it and the same guys will show up again and put more fuel in the fire. Some one has to stop them

 

[Luminis]

No, I am saying how and why are people allowed to post not 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 but hundereds of post complaining about a game

Ok they have their opnions take 50 posts but stop after that. It is annoying for many users the same guys complaining over and over and over and over again

You know, you don't have to read his posts.

And, second, those posts at least are ontopic...

 

[HaylRayzor]

Here's my thought on standard vs premium...

I understand that some cars are standard, and others are premium. Whether this is good or bad is a discussion I'll leave to others.

What is unclear to me is why some cars have both standard and premium versions in the game... It seems to me that once the car has been created as a premium model there is no point in the standard model. I have spent some time searching for an answer to this and found nothing.

 

[eSZee]

No, I am saying how and why are people allowed to post not 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 but hundereds of post complaining about a game

Ok they have their opnions take 50 posts but stop after that. It is annoying for many users the same guys complaining over and over and over and over again Some one will come and post why he hates it and the same guys will show up again and put more fuel in the fire. Some one has to stop them

Look at it from his view and you'll see he's as annoyed having to write it over and over as you are to read it. He says the same thing a hundred times because a hundred people say the same thing. Just be happy that his post are coherent and easy to read.

 

[analog]

You know being a fan of something or someone doesn't mean you can't be critical or disappointed but ultimately still remain a fan (under the condition that the criticism is taken to heart next time round I guess).
Maybe it's a bit like looking forward to the next album of your favourite band, promising a new direction and a double-album consisting of around a 100 tracks.
Baffled by this huge number and even questioning their ability to write that much new material you're still confident that if anyone could pull it off they would.
Suddenly they announce around 20 new tracks (which are truly great masterpieces) and the rest of the album consisting of remastered old ones from previous albums which despite being remastered can't hide the fact being recorded in an inferior way compared to the new stuff.
Not only that, they aren't really that much different than the ones you already listened to on those previous records (even lacking some distinct sounds).
Whilst still buying the record to listen to the new material foremost, the old songs are still, well old songs which you may still listen to occasionally but the shock of the new is absent.
Really like the new direction, a milestone away from their previous stuff but why include the old songs as I already know them (admittingly on vinyl, not CD) which just appear like filler.
They still advertise the album saying it includes a 100 tracks though, still love this band and their music but not their decision to go for this approach.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I'm now more upset about not being able to add CSL wheels to other BMWs than I am with the standards being of lesser quality.

Oof, the amount of inter-manufacturer swaps that occupy my GT4 garage is massive. RS4 and RS6 rims on TT's, R34 rims on Z32's, CSL rims on... every Bimmer. Sure, it's mostly cosmetic, but the visuals are a huge, huge part of GT. Looks like we're back to after-market rims only in GT5.

it's still going to have the longevity that every other Gran Turismo shares.

Oh agreed, even if I did limit myself to "only" 220-some-odd Premiums. The online gameplay alone will make it a hugely long-lasting affair, and if there's DLC, extend that even further...

Here's my thought on standard vs premium...

I understand that some cars are standard, and others are premium. Whether this is good or bad is a discussion I'll leave to others.

What is unclear to me is why some cars have both standard and premium versions in the game... It seems to me that once the car has been created as a premium model there is no point in the standard model. I have spent some time searching for an answer to this and found nothing.

They all seem to be cars that were included in PSP, in addition to the GT4 models in that game. So it makes sense to reason that the cars were downgraded to a form of one-piece model for that game (compared to the multi-piece, interior'd Premiums), so PD saw fit to include both.

Er, wait... other P/S models are also ones that already had a model in GT4, and have had a scratch-built Premium for GT5. I assume the Standards are kept for the Used lots, if people want a discount (though yeah, I can't see why someone would want the Standard version of an identical Premium, other than completists).

 

[shawtyoner]

Not being able to change wheels on standards is just lame, anyone that says it is no big deal is a huge fanboy and is not being honest.

I agree, about the wheels, I will get over it sooner or later, but why not just include standard wheels as well?

 

[Tornado]

Have I gotten #1? GT5's car list says "no". Unless you can find me some FPV cars in the list, I haven't gotten #1. All cars present in GT4 should be on GT5.

I've actually been wondering about this. How closely does GT5 follow the GTPSP car list? I note that a couple of the cars have returned that I can think of (like the Caterham and the Plymouth Prowler), but I mean, surely we could have stood to lose 7 Miatas in order to get back the cars that PD didn't include from GT4. Hell, we could have stood to lose 14 Miatas with nothing in return.

No, I am saying how and why are people allowed to post not 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 but hundereds of post complaining about a game

Because this is GTPlanet. Not Soviet Russia.
And on the other hand, why does volume dictate the right to post? Why exactly are Devedander's posts egregious, but the people he is debating with aren't?
When a certain member comes back into the thread after a prolonged absence and goes "I told you the Standard cars would look better than you guys were saying" when they in fact look exactly like some of us had been saying, why is Devedander (or anyone else with post counts in the hundreds in this thread) wrong for pointing that out? Especially when it is usually quite obvious that such initial posts are specifically targeted at the members of this thread with higher post counts?

It is annoying for many users the same guys complaining over and over and over and over again

So imagine how annoying it is for him to keep doing that every time someone enters the thread and starts going on about how Standards are the best thing ever and look better than Forza models and blah blah blah.

Some one has to stop them

No. No they don't. You don't like them, you could very well not enter the topic to complain about how you "have" to read them.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Oof, the amount of inter-manufacturer swaps that occupy my GT4 garage is massive. RS4 and RS6 rims on TT's, R34 rims on Z32's, CSL rims on... every Bimmer. Sure, it's mostly cosmetic, but the visuals are a huge, huge part of GT. Looks like we're back to after-market rims only in GT5.

Precisely.
Its the only significant option to personalize your cars.

Again, IMO part of the soul of the game.

Thats 800, countem, 800 plain Janes you cannot change.

My understanding is there is no wheel changing on standards.

I assume your talking about future DLC with regaurd to aftermarket wheels?

 

[gaming25]

It's the simplest form of customization GT's cars have had since the beginning (or at least GT2, never played GT1). I'm sorry, but Photomode is a feature that I enjoy a lot in GT4. Changing wheels in a car makes a huge difference in Photo travel, the right set makes the car look a million times better. You don't care about them? No prob, I do and a other people do too, that's why Premium cars can change their wheels.



Really easy? I never said that. Easier than doing over 150 cars with over 200.000 polygons each? You bet it is, it's common sense. Put it this way: would have it been easier to do 200 cars of 10.000 polygons each or 200 cars of over 200.000 polygons each? If the cars are the same, the answer should be obvious. Adding one track or two can't be that difficult if you import all the previous tracks from GT4 and add two or three. Is that really that difficult? Have them all be in the same conditions, and you are set for rule number 6. Weather? I don't need it. Day & night? Don't need them, though it would be a super cool addition.

Once again, which game would have been easier to make? Mine or PD's?



Have I gotten #1? GT5's car list says "no". Unless you can find me some FPV cars in the list, I haven't gotten #1. All cars present in GT4 should be on GT5.

Have I gotten #2? No. I don't care what other games do. If every game decided to farm work to third world countries, should PD do it too? Once again, it wasn't a hard task compared to what has been done in GT5.

Better physics? Absolutely. Better graphics? Not the same quality for every car, therefore, *BZZZT*.



Adding cars while keeping the ones in GT4 was unnecessary? Adding tracks while keeping the ones in GT4 was unnecessary?

How could my ideal GT5 (which mind you, is much more simpler than the real GT5) could have taken two more years to be released? Mate, why you don't understand this is beyond me.



Except that people would consider my version of the game to be worse than the actual GT5, including Kazunori Yamauchi. That's the other side of the coin: my game wasn't harder to make, it's just that Kazunori's ambitions were much bigger. Happy with my answer?

Moreover, the GT5 I would have made would have taken less time to make. If you can argument why it would have taken more time, feel free to explain. I'm listening.

I repeat: I'm sorry for asking too much, PD.

You should realize that I would assume that you were talking about ADDITIONS to the game. I didnt know that you wouldve wanted to subtract chuncks of the game just so that you could have all of the cars from GT4.