Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Devedander]

Unless I have serious reading issues, I do believe I posted a number of PS3 games which were sub-720p. But then, I don't seem to be the one with selective reading syndrome.

Anyhow, have fun proclaiming your own brilliance, Dev. This is the intranet after all, someone will be along to venerate you.

I think you do have reading issues...

I said that many sub 720 games are lower res on the ps3 than the 360 and referred to them as THEY. I even gave a link and example for Red Dead Redemption that commpletely removes an possible ambiguity.

You asked who these THEY (the games which are lower res on ps3 than 360) were, then proceeded to list a bunch of games, not drawing any connections between the ps3 and the 360 counterparts.

Since you clearly were asking what games I was talking about that are lower res on PS3 than 360 (and didn't in any way list anything of the sort in any meaningful way) I went ahead and did the hard research for you and posted a handful of games that were lower res on ps3 than 360...

Honestly D, I think you do have a reading problem... I think you missread it as a 1080p comparison issue and not a sub hd resolution issue or something... I am reading the post again and again right now and there is no two ways about it... you didn't read what you thought you read or you didn't say what you thought you said... either way, somethings not right in Tenacious land...


EDIT BTW your choice of pre 2008 games is actually an odd one because the sub hd movement has been actually quite strong lately as game companies give up pixels for effects and framerate (and MS relaxing it's mandatory 720p rule) as is evidenced by the multiple recent games in the sub hd categories.

 

[CarreraGT]

I just got through seeing some of those pictures from the 80 new pictures (featuring the LF-A and snow and other stuff). You hate that not every car is Premium and can be tuned to Premium limits, but I really think the Standards don't look that bad to be honest. Compared to Premiums, of course, the Standards look like they don't even belong in GT5. I saw the picture featuring a gold Dodge Charger and the 1996 Corvette Grand Sport in the Toscana (gravel) environment). I think the re-touching job isn't all that bad. It wasn't like the GT4 models were just brought in cold turkey (no pun intended with Thanksgiving on the way). At least the note of a visible 3D driver is some sort of saving grace.

Again- I am not here to extend a debate or get railed for my views, so I wanted to just post that I'm overall pretty happy with how the Standards have been handled. I still have yet to race a Standard car apart from my Premium runs in the GT5 kiosk demo. I'm probably not missing anything (as anyone will likely tell me), but I just want to see Standards and Premiums in action and in person. Perhaps even against Premiums. I'm going to be a pretty happy boy (a 27-year old boy) when I get [a PS3] and GT5.

Good to see someone get this thread back on topic. You shouldn't be afraid to post your view, after all that's what a forum is for.

As for you clowns who insist on arguing on every thread, do it elsewhere because it just means that those of us who want to contribute have to read through pages of your bickering.

I agree that compared to the premiums, it is difficult not to notice the shortcomings of some of the standard models. Funnily enough it almost makes it seem ok for me to have the standards sold through the used car lot and the premiums through the dealerships, except of course for that fact that I would love to see a (LOT) of the the standards available as premiums.

I've come to the conclusion that it will be impossible to make a proper judgement until I actually play the game and see the difference in person. Until then (3 days away), I'll just have to wait

 

[Tornado]

who made you moderator you argue way too much for a mod. A mod job is to see the forum is behaving properly not get involved in arguments

Better let Famine know that, then.

Unfortunately the 10MB of memory isn't enough to go into the 1080 range for it's magic but this is what lets the 360 hold the higher resolution edge over PS3.

Not really. 360 GPU is better than PS3 and has unified memory 512mb. PS3 has slightly faster memory but it is 256 for gfx chip and 256 used by Cell processor.

You are both kind of off. Yes, the 360 has a notably better dedicated GPU than the RSX in the PS3, being essentially an ATi X1900 with some HD2900 parts thrown in plus some eDRAM compared to the PS3's GeForce 7800 GT with the serial numbers filed off.
However, the major graphical powerhouse PS3 games (Uncharted, GT5, very likely the PS3 version of FFXII, probably MGS4) don't actually use the RSX for much of anything, and the developers who really put the time into the system can get stuff that can't really be done easily (if at all) on the 360. That's the rub, though. The PS3 is quite a bit like the Saturn was in comparison to the PSX in that respect, though not nearly that hard to program for.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

after reading all the post on page 486.. i needed to check the title again .. cause man this page turned into a Ps3 vs 360 fast

 

[gtracedriver]

^^^
Devedander will be here arguing till 1000 pages, he will reach 1000+ post in this thread alone

Better let Famine know that, then.



You are both kind of off. Yes, the 360 has a notably better dedicated GPU than the RSX in the PS3, being essentially an ATi X1900 with some HD2900 parts thrown in plus some eDRAM compared to the PS3's GeForce 7800 GT with the serial numbers filed off.
However, the major graphical powerhouse PS3 games (Uncharted, GT5, very likely the PS3 version of FFXII, probably MGS4) don't actually use the RSX for much of anything, and the developers who really put the time into the system can get stuff that can't really be done easily (if at all) on the 360. That's the rub, though. The PS3 is quite a bit like the Saturn was in comparison to the PSX in that respect, though not nearly that hard to program for.

PS3 exclusive games make proper use cell pocessor unlike multiplatform games.

 

[Inferno251]

i have a request that applies to all cars...
In GT4, there were a few cars you couldn't modify or race as they were "special" cars (i.e: Caterham 7). I hope that i can use every car in every race.

 

[Tornado]

i have a request that applies to all cars...
In GT4, there were a few cars you couldn't modify or race as they were "special" cars (i.e: Caterham 7). I hope that i can use every car in every race.

That was because of technical limitations. There is no reason that I know of that such a thing would happen with GT5.

 

[fitftw]

^ use every car in every race? There will be restrictions. Might be a loophole in one or two events but for the most part, no.

 

[Tornado]

^ use every car in every race? There will be restrictions. Might be a loophole in one or two events but for the most part, no.

He was referring to the cars you couldn't race at all in GT Mode.

 

[RedSuinit]

Slip, you're a super-mod? Have you always been? Or did it happen recently? Congrats though man, it's a big responsibility.

 

[Tornado]

Slip, you're a super-mod? Have you always been? Or did it happen recently? Congrats though man, it's a big responsibility.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132969
A bunch of members got bumped up to help deal with the tidal wave of members who will join next week.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Weellll................ I was pretty tired today, so obviously I misread something badly, sorry. So I guess I'll go back and redo the post point by point instead of lump-summing it.

You NEVER remember the essence of what I say (exaggeration). Oh well, I'm used to it (sarcasm ).

Fair enough, as you'll understand I am now tired. I snipped it out for other members' benefit (as quotes can really lengthen a post), but you're forgetting one important word: the outsourcing model can bring about those drawbacks you suggest. They are not a sure-thing; better quality control, or fine-tuning after receiving outsourced assets, can definitely help.

I can actually make this much, much shorter. Dave said it best:

As I said, standards seem to have many detail levels among them. Some look pretty good while others are abysmal. I think some premiums are better looking than others as well.

The "ugly" images of Standards belong in this thread just as much as the good-looking, GNX-infused ones. Some cars look far better than they did in GT4; some, bizarrely, look worse. We'll all be exploring these differences in a few dozen hours.

i have a request that applies to all cars...
In GT4, there were a few cars you couldn't modify or race as they were "special" cars (i.e: Caterham 7). I hope that i can use every car in every race.

There is a video around, somewhere, that has the Fireblade running around with supercars. It certainly seems that of the "Special" cars that remain in GT5, all of them can now race freely against other opponents 👍

...

I have hope for this thread, despite the far-too-often sidetracks, because when people don't let things get personal, constructive discussion has, and can, happen. Also, like it or not, this thread will see action after release, as new-to-GT gamers join GTP and are curious about the two tiers. Keep that in mind, and keep it civil, and at least make an effort to keep it on-topic. The important thing to remember is that we all (or at least, a very high percentage of us) are still GT fans at heart, and will be playing it in a few days.

Red - That is is, thank you

 

[zork123]

this has probably been asked before, but...


are standard cars the only ones with the jagged shadows or are all cars like this now? just curious. i'm still getting the game regardless...

 

[gtracedriver]

^
No that is game problem sadly and it happens sometimes

 

[Spagetti69]

Bloody hell Slippy, did they do that to shut you up lol. Well done.

 

[LaBounti]

Regarding car choices, he speaks for plenty of people.

The same can be said for those who do not feel the same which makes your reply irrelevant. By reading the many pages the last few months its obvious there is a divide. But he does not speak for everyone and that's my point.

 

[scandisk]

Bloody hell Slippy, did they do that to shut you up lol. Well done.

Tell me more

 

[Tenacious D]

Bloody hell Slippy, did they do that to shut you up lol. Well done.

Oh wow, high praise that! 👍

i have a request that applies to all cars...
In GT4, there were a few cars you couldn't modify or race as they were "special" cars (i.e: Caterham 7). I hope that i can use every car in every race.

That was because of technical limitations. There is no reason that I know of that such a thing would happen with GT5.

Err... I know it's way past my bedtime, and I'm probably making myself sick not getting to it, but... one more post.

It seems like in some user made videos that are supposed to be from the released version of GT5, I've seen 8, 10, 12 and 16 car races. And in Rally, is it 4? I'm pretty beat and headachy right now, but I remember that number being used.

It's possible that some races have such a high demand that not all races are 16 car fields, such as highly detailed city courses. Tracks with time of day changes and weather. Races with cars which used to be processing bears, such as convertibles, the Tank car and the Caterham, or cars with full damage modeling.

But I don't know. So far, I'm unaware of anyone saying anything about less than 16 car races, but then I've been kind of dodging certain threads I think might hold massive spoilage. Then again, I'd like to browse the "First Impressions" thread, so I'm sure I'm about to eat some dynamite.

Regardless, here's to races with a field 16 strong, with several of them being Caterhams! 👍

 

[Akira AC]

Congratulations SlipZtrEm,a good mod for the incoming photomode contest will be necesary.

And getting on topic I want to point out that the battle between PS3 vs Xbox is based on the claim of memory vs pixel shadering,you see the xbox can shader and optimize certain graphics tasks due to its pixel shadering technology,by the other hand the PS3 can handle more complex graphics due to its memory speed and procesing.

My point is that PS3 is desingned to manage more elements and handle more calculation,show of this is God of war 3,which handles both hq graphics and processing management,by the other hand we have games like BFBC2,which shows in the 360 version a better management of the pixel shadders,in conclution its all down to the game developer to decide how take the power of these console.

sorry for spelling mistakes I'm on PSP

 

[Ya Pops]

The same can be said for those who do not feel the same which makes your reply irrelevant. By reading the many pages the last few months its obvious there is a divide. But he does not speak for everyone and that's my point.

I never said he spoke for everyone which makes your reply even more irrelevant.

 

[Scaff]

who made you moderator you argue way too much for a mod. A mod job is to see the forum is behaving properly not get involved in arguments

Says who?

Because the last time I checked you don't own, operate or run this site.

Jordan (who does) has no issue with the staff getting involved in debates and discussions on any of the threads, as long as we keep discussion and moderations separate no issue exists.

I would however appreciate it if you refrained from tell the staff what they can and can't do.


Now...

Also M$ do not likely to have multiple disk or install.

First thing - lay off the M$ nonsense, flame bait is not needed or helpful (and just to be clear that's my mod hat on).

MS have no issue with either of these things. They do charge a separate license fee for each disc, which can make it cost prohibitive for developers, but that's quite a different thing.

As for not liking installs, how would you then explain the option to install every (and I mean every) 360 game?

They sell crappy 360 arcade with 4GB.

They provide a range of options to the purchaser, you may see it as crappy many do not.

Only FF XIII has 3 disk they limit developers to max 2 DVD only.

Now aside from contradicting yourself in this sentence and the one I quoted above, its also not true. They have a separate license fee for each disc which makes it cost prohibitive. Quite a different thing to a maximum limit.


@all - Now we have had that little PS3 vs 360 love fest how about we get things back on topic.

Ta

Scaff

 

[F34R]

Personally, I wish they had kept the detail to a point where they could guarantee a consistent experience throughout the entire game. As it is, this isn't something anyone will have.

 

[Luminis]

First off, congrats to becoming a Super Mod, SlipZtrEm 👍

Is this hyperbole? Exaggeration? Flat out lying, Slip?

I'll make this quick. It's the same thing as saying 'Forza 3 looks like Forza 2'. So, call it whatever you want, but it's kinda interesting that you seem to be okay with it as long as it's about Forza, but have the urge to step in as soon as it's about Gran Turismo.

Well, at least I know what to call that: Hyporisy.

Regarding the 'farming work out' thing: Notice how I never said it was going to be cheaper? All I said was that it's going to give you cars with a higher level of detail than the standard cars without consuming more time on PD's part. I'm fully aware of the fact that recycling old assets you've got lying around somewhere is cheaper than that.

 

[gaming25]

Regarding the 'farming work out' thing: Notice how I never said it was going to be cheaper? All I said was that it's going to give you cars with a higher level of detail than the standard cars without consuming more time on PD's part. I'm fully aware of the fact that recycling old assets you've got lying around somewhere is cheaper than that.

Something I will say is that they couldve farmed out the standard cars and have those people make the interiors. But I dont know what exactly was PD's situation.

Personally, I wish they had kept the detail to a point where they could guarantee a consistent experience throughout the entire game. As it is, this isn't something anyone will have.

Speak for yourself. And also, there is a reason why they are called "premiums" and "standards". And if you dont want to play with the standards, then dont. There are many people who will enjoy the 1000 cars.

 

[MidianGTX]

Something I will say is that they couldve farmed out the standard cars and have those people make the interiors. But I dont know what exactly was PD's situation.

Even if they'd just had people remodel/texture the exteriors we'd have been in a better position. I think PD are a little too protective of their baby.

 

[strik3out]

What exactly is the deal with the standard cars? I mean, they're not actually just upscaled GT4 cars are they with the same amount of polygons and exactly the same model, right? They can't be, surely. I mean the Veyron is a new car but that's a standard car.

At least tell me they have actually improved the models and added detail and polygons to even the standard models??

 

[LaBounti]

I never said he spoke for everyone which makes your reply even more irrelevant.

I never said you did.

 

[Luminis]

What exactly is the deal with the standard cars? I mean, they're not actually just upscaled GT4 cars are they with the same amount of polygons and exactly the same model, right? They can't be, surely. I mean the Veyron is a new car but that's a standard car.

At least tell me they have actually improved the models and added detail and polygons to even the standard models??

As far as we know, they did so on some of the standard cars, but not on all of them. That's why you get pretty decent ones (like the Veyron) and some not so decent ones (like the Pescarolo).

Something I will say is that they couldve farmed out the standard cars and have those people make the interiors.

Exactly.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

If you ask me standard car are ported from the PSP HD version (the one you see when you select cars on PSP). They look exactly the same and the texture are well really bad, especially in race with you.

 

[Tornado]

Speak for yourself. And also, there is a reason why they are called "premiums" and "standards". And if you dont want to play with the standards, then dont. There are many people who will enjoy the 1000 cars.

Has not, and never will be, a valid rebuttal for this issue.