Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

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What would you have rather had PD do about "premium" vs. "standard" cars

  • Keep everthing the same

    Votes: 324 19.1%
  • Release the game later with all the cars "premium"

    Votes: 213 12.6%
  • Not do "premium" cars at all but focus on other features i.e. dynamic weather

    Votes: 134 7.9%
  • DLC packs after the release

    Votes: 844 49.8%
  • Wished PD didn't get are hopes up, lol

    Votes: 180 10.6%

  • Total voters
    1,695
Hey does anyone know if the interior details in Premium cars have been added, I was just wondering if there's working clocks etc (like in Forza 3, omg).
In Prologue there wasn't, so I'm just gonna give you guys this puzzle and wait for the answer from someone who maybe owns the game or has played it.
 
Hey does anyone know if the interior details in Premium cars have been added, I was just wondering if there's working clocks etc (like in Forza 3, omg).
In Prologue there wasn't, so I'm just gonna give you guys this puzzle and wait for the answer from someone who maybe owns the game or has played it.

The interiors are TONS better in GT5 than in Forza 3. No game has this amount of detail with interiors.
 
As far as we know, they did so on some of the standard cars, but not on all of them. That's why you get pretty decent ones (like the Veyron) and some not so decent ones (like the Pescarolo).


Exactly.

I see. So basically a fair few of the standard cars aren't really even going to be on par with Forza 2 then let alone Forza 3??
 
The interiors are TONS better in GT5 than in Forza 3. No game has this amount of detail with interiors.
He was talking about working clocks and odometers only, so no need to get all fired up :)
I see. So basically a fair few of the standard cars aren't really even going to be on par with Forza 2 then let alone Forza 3??
Carefull there, you'd better get your flame-resistent suite on before making that kind of statement.
 
I would say standard car looks in menu/photomode/replay like FM2 cars but when you race against them, they look like upped to HD GTPSP cars, that's how I feel so far for them. Also some seems a bit better than other.
 
Yeppers, thanks for the info RX7. I think we all still be satisfied with the amazing quality of the interior and it's materials and such. And who has the time to look at the clock while concentrating on mastering the corners of the Nordschleife :P
 
I'll make this quick. It's the same thing as saying 'Forza 3 looks like Forza 2'. So, call it whatever you want, but it's kinda interesting that you seem to be okay with it as long as it's about Forza, but have the urge to step in as soon as it's about Gran Turismo.

Well, at least I know what to call that: Hyporisy.
Considering I don't "live" here like some people, usually there are a number of guys who pounce all over anti-Forza posts, such as you, GT Skeptic, Slip etc. I've never felt the need to answer something that's already been sufficiently addressed. Looks like spam to me. I've deleted replies in my posts when I find out others have already addressed them. Maybe you're the other way and like to pile on. ;)

Secondly, I know this will be a huge shock to you, but this is a board oriented towards a certain racing game. This fact, to me at least, indicates that it's going to attract people with a certain preference. Most likely, they won't see things in an "all things being equal" sense, but "this game is better" way. I do have preferences of one game over another, and this should be understandable, and okay. This is known as "having free will" and "being a human." My preferred game does happen to be Gran Turismo. It's not just because I like rolling around in Japanese car lots, but because of the attitude of the developer and the fact that one of these companies isn't nearly as bad as the other, which has been taken to court for monopolistic, market hostile actions.

If this doesn't sit well with you, not only should you skip my posts, I'd suggest you're really on the wrong board.

Thirdly, and I know this will be a further shock, but often, Forza 3 does look like Forza 2.

And - here's the real shocker - this isn't necessarily a bad thing. :lol:

The reason is that, aside from all the stupid flaws, FM2 was actually done pretty well. If you bother take the time to fire up F2 and F3 and check them out one after the other, like I did when I was considering liveries I was going to redo on the "better" game, you'd be surprised how similar they look, at least in the garage. Both look about as crisp, with just a scouche better graphics in F3. Of course, on track it's a different matter. It seems T10's environment artists got a little carried away or something, because many times, F2 does look a little better than F3. Montserrat is a good example, as the puffy looking rocks look kind of like a styrofoam movie set. From what I remember, Sebring looks better on F2, more real life. Photo Mode is another story. In F2, pics can flat out look terrible. In F3 they look great... until you upload them to the Forza site. I don't know why Microsoft tends to break nearly everything they do somehow.

Regarding the 'farming work out' thing: Notice how I never said it was going to be cheaper? All I said was that it's going to give you cars with a higher level of detail than the standard cars without consuming more time on PD's part. I'm fully aware of the fact that recycling old assets you've got lying around somewhere is cheaper than that.
Well, sure, let's just spend astronomical amounts of money to make the PS4 into a Cray 19 and sell it for $99, why don't we. ;)

Sure, disregarding crucially important factors like... oh, say, cost, you can make anything sound awesome, like my whimsical remark above. However, some of us do like to at least keep one foot on the surface of the planet. But, if by some amazing twist of space and time, you know of a modeling shop which will crank out 800 high poly cars with interiors in no time for under a million dollars, I'm sure just about every racing developer would be interested in that. Do share!
 
Do we have a definitive answer to this question yet: can standard cars be upgraded to the same extent as in GT4 (disregarding wheel upgrades)?

I really want to know.
 
I wasnt a fan of GT4 game mode so I didnt play it much, can you be more precise ?

I will take my AE86 Levin as example, on it I can tune everything on the motor/suspension etc.. except brake who can be tune from stock. Also 3 stage to make it lighter, no carbon hood tho.
Now on the exterior tuning part : You can add 3 sort of Wing on it and that's it. Option seems to vary here, guess it depends on cars.
 
I see. So basically a fair few of the standard cars aren't really even going to be on par with Forza 2 then let alone Forza 3??

even the best standards won't be on par with FM3. in reality, the FM3 cars are far better than the best standards (IE: the bugatti), even the "in game" models, with the best standards being more up to FM2's spec. the worst standards should be up to GT4 spec. the way they are modeled (as a single piece with textures for headlamps, creases, door handles, panel gaps, and brake lights) mean that they really can't look up to the spec of this generation of top-level racing game.
 
Considering I don't "live" here like some people, usually there are a number of guys who pounce all over anti-Forza posts, such as you, GT Skeptic, Slip etc. I've never felt the need to answer something that's already been sufficiently addressed. Looks like spam to me. I've deleted replies in my posts when I find out others have already addressed them. Maybe you're the other way and like to pile on. ;)
I just like to answer stuff that's directly aimed at me, by quoting a post of mine, for example.

Secondly, I know this will be a huge shock to you, but this is a board oriented towards a certain racing game. This fact, to me at least, indicates that it's going to attract people with a certain preference. Most likely, they won't see things in an "all things being equal" sense, but "this game is better" way. I do have preferences of one game over another, and this should be understandable, and okay. This is known as "having free will" and "being a human." My preferred game does happen to be Gran Turismo. It's not just because I like rolling around in Japanese car lots, but because of the attitude of the developer and the fact that one of these companies isn't nearly as bad as the other, which has been taken to court for monopolistic, market hostile actions.
So, uh, you're a fanboy. Anything I didn't know? Besides, this being a Gran Turismo Forum doesn't mean you have to be (or appreciate) that way to post here, right?

If this doesn't sit well with you, not only should you skip my posts, I'd suggest you're really on the wrong board.
Am I? Dunno, I don't think the AUP states that only those who favour GT because it's bearing the GT badge are allowed to post here.

Thirdly, and I know this will be a further shock, but often, Forza 3 does look like Forza 2.
Fine with me. Just as GT5 looks (at times) like GT4. I never challenged that point. All I'm saying is that there's no point in acting all high and mighty if both games are that way.

And - here's the real shocker - this isn't necessarily a bad thing. :lol:
Do you consider looking like the older (and technical inferior) entry in the franchise a good thing? I know I don't.

The reason is that, aside from all the stupid flaws, FM2 was actually done pretty well.
Basically what I'm saying about GT5, so far. Okay, I'd call GT5 (from what I've seen) great, not just pretty well.

If you bother take the time to fire up F2 and F3 and check them out one after the other, like I did when I was considering liveries I was going to redo on the "better" game, you'd be surprised how similar they look, at least in the garage. Both look about as crisp, with just a scouche better graphics in F3. Of course, on track it's a different matter. It seems T10's environment artists got a little carried away or something, because many times, F2 does look a little better than F3. Montserrat is a good example, as the puffy looking rocks look kind of like a styrofoam movie set. From what I remember, Sebring looks better on F2, more real life. Photo Mode is another story. In F2, pics can flat out look terrible. In F3 they look great... until you upload them to the Forza site. I don't know why Microsoft tends to break nearly everything they do somehow.
See, this is pretty, well, unimportant considering I never challenged the point that, at times, FM2 and FM3 look alike. Even though I still consider that a bad thing.


Well, sure, let's just spend astronomical amounts of money to make the PS4 into a Cray 19 and sell it for $99, why don't we. ;)
Considering the amount of money PD/Sony spend on GT5... Well, if MS was able to pay for it, why wouldn't Sony?

Sure, disregarding crucially important factors like... oh, say, cost, you can make anything sound awesome, like my whimsical remark above. However, some of us do like to at least keep one foot on the surface of the planet. But, if by some amazing twist of space and time, you know of a modeling shop which will crank out 800 high poly cars with interiors in no time for under a million dollars, I'm sure just about every racing developer would be interested in that. Do share!

As I said, it can't be that expensive if MS did it and didn't went bankrupt, especially considering that Forza isn't anywhere near as succesful as GT5 will be. It at least is testimony to the fact Sony could do it as well if they wanted to. A company that's willing to spend some 60 million dollars on a game can't be that poor.
 
(flip, flip flip, flip...)

Considering the amount of money PD/Sony spend on GT5... Well, if MS was able to pay for it, why wouldn't Sony?
Maybe because MS doesn't manufacture squat, is a market-hostile megacorporation, and is rolling in money. Some of it mine, and taken without my permission. Oh, and "game preference" = "fanboy"... such deep thinking, there. ;)

Anyhow, I think this would be a great thread to give our impressions of the Standard cars. I expect a few "I knew I'd hate this," but I do expect one or two surprise posts.
 
Says who?

Because the last time I checked you don't own, operate or run this site.

Jordan (who does) has no issue with the staff getting involved in debates and discussions on any of the threads, as long as we keep discussion and moderations separate no issue exists.

I would however appreciate it if you refrained from tell the staff what they can and can't do.

I am glad you actually took time to check that I do not own, operate this site lol

When did I say what Jordan has to do ? I was just giving my honest opnion because I have seen SlipZtrEm big wall of text in lots of heated arguments.

I don't think mod should get involved in it. Of course my opnion has nothing to do how this site runs but I was just saying, ok.

Calm down big Fellow :rolleyes:

Now...

First thing - lay off the M$ nonsense, flame bait is not needed or helpful (and just to be clear that's my mod hat on).

MS have no issue with either of these things. They do charge a separate license fee for each disc, which can make it cost prohibitive for developers, but that's quite a different thing.

As for not liking installs, how would you then explain the option to install every (and I mean every) 360 game?



They provide a range of options to the purchaser, you may see it as crappy many do not.


Now aside from contradicting yourself in this sentence and the one I quoted above, its also not true. They have a separate license fee for each disc which makes it cost prohibitive. Quite a different thing to a maximum limit.

As I have mentioned FF XIII is an exception.

They charge fees for games more than 2 disk. Many developers want to use more disk space but they do not want to pay extra fees. For example Rage, FPS game from ID software which will release next year was suppose to have 5 wastelands but they said it would be very difficult on 360 because they are limited to 2 disk and people will have to swap disk from going to different wastelands.

360 arcade was meant so that people can play without HDD. Obviously it is catch because soon they realise that arcade is crap and they need a HDD if they want to play more games and it doesn't help because install makes faster loading times. 360 are generally louder, it can effect lifespan of DVD drive also. But install and 2+ DVD is something they do not like developers to implement

Both the things I have said as absolutely valid :)

@all - Now we have had that little PS3 vs 360 love fest how about we get things back on topic.

Ta

Scaff
 
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Maybe because MS doesn't manufacture squat, is a market-hostile megacorporation, and is rolling in money.
Uh... Yeah... That's why Sony's revenue is higher than Microsofts, eh? Which Already considers manufacturing costs.
But, anyways, you are indeed right, maybe a little talk about the standard cars is the better way to go.

As seen in one of the videos I've seen recently, it appeared that standard cars can't get the bare carbon hood... So, uh, I kinda thought this would be possible, as it would just change the texture of the car... Thoughts?
 
Are the standard cars of lower quality than the cars in Prologue? I know there is no cockpit view on standard cars, but do the standard cars look as good as Prologue? I can see from screenshots that the Premium cars look way better than Prologue, but I have not seen too many shots of the standard cars to see how they stack up against the Prologue. I thought the Prologue cars looked pretty good, so I can't see the standard cars being made at a lower quality than at least Prologue. Maybe I am wrong, either way I will getting my copy on Wednesday.
 
Are the standard cars of lower quality than the cars in Prologue? I know there is no cockpit view on standard cars, but do the standard cars look as good as Prologue? I can see from screenshots that the Premium cars look way better than Prologue, but I have not seen too many shots of the standard cars to see how they stack up against the Prologue. I thought the Prologue cars looked pretty good, so I can't see the standard cars being made at a lower quality than at least Prologue. Maybe I am wrong, either way I will getting my copy on Wednesday.

I really am not sure.

Apparently this is a picture of the Pagani Zonda C12S in GT5. If it's correct then no, the cars do not look as good as they do in GT5P. In fact they don't. Someone else here said They cars basically look like GT4 cars in HD and I'm inclinded to believe them.

2z3s70z.jpg
 
I am glad you actually took time to check that I do not own, operate this site lol

When did I say what Jordon has to do ? I was just giving my honest opnion because I have seen SlipZtrEm big wall of text in lots of heated arguments.

I don't think mod should get involved in it but of course my opnion has nothing to do how this site runs but I was just saying, ok.

Calm down big Fellow :rolleyes:

I will 'calm' down when you stop informing the staff of what they are permitted to do.

You did not post as opinion, you posted as instruction, you stated what mods should and should not do. So no it is not 'ok' at all, and should we see a repeat of this kind of attitude then further action will be taken.


As I have mentioned FF XIII is an exception.

They charge fees for games more than 2 disk. Many developers want to use more disk space but they do not want to pay extra fees. For example Rage, FPS game from ID software which will release next year was suppose to have 5 wastelands but they said it would be very difficult on 360 because they are limited to 2 disk and people will have swap disk from going to different wastelands.

360 arcade was meant so that people can play without HDD. Obviously it is catch because soon they realise that arcade is crap and they need a HDD if they want to play more games but they do not like installs on their console.


I doesn't help because install makes faster loading times and 360 are generally louder, it can effect lifespan of DVD drive also

Both the things I have said as absolutely valid :)

No you stated that MS allow a max of two discs, you only (correctly) clarified that to being in regard to license fees after I posted as such, however that's another discussion for another thread (feel free to find it and post in it).

Now get back on topic.


Scaff
 
even the best standards won't be on par with FM3. in reality, the FM3 cars are far better than the best standards (IE: the bugatti)

I found some veyron pics to compare (if we can do that in this thread, I saw some GT5/F3 comparisons before). I like some things from the standard GT5 veyron and some things from the Forza 3 veyron as well. I might be leaning more toward the Forza veyron but the GT's isn't that bad to me either tho


veyronedited.jpg


http://img502.imageshack.us/i/nrburgringnordschleife4i.jpg/

https://www.gtplanet.net/80-new-gt5-screens-veyron-lf-a-damage-snow-more/nrburgringnordschleife3-2/

forza-3-oxcgn-veyron1.jpg


autoblog-video-exclusive-the-bugatti-veyron-joins-forza-motorsp.jpg



http://img113.imageshack.us/i/veyron.jpg/

Edit: Just posted the link for the pics that wouldn't show.
 
I really am not sure.

Apparently this is a picture of the Pagani Zonda C12S in GT5. If it's correct then no, the cars do not look as good as they do in GT5P. In fact they don't. Someone else here said They cars basically look like GT4 cars in HD and I'm inclinded to believe them.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2z3s70z.jpg/img][/QUOTE]

Rather looks like a GTPSP car than a GT5 Standard car. :scared: But could well be. Or has GTPSP also a level counter? I know it's a low res shot but you can see that the car is badly detailed. If it really is GT5, I'm not taking no pic of that car, nor driving it.. or maybe once at max...:grumpy:
 
I found some veyron pics to compare (if we can do that in this thread, I saw some GT5/F3 comparisons before). I like some things from the standard GT5 veyron and some things from the Forza 3 veyron as well. I might be leaning more toward the Forza veyron but the GT's isn't that bad to me either tho

Those Forza images use a model that's a far higher quality than the one used during gameplay. Bullshots have really been one of the worst things to happen this generation.
 
Maybe because MS doesn't manufacture squat, is a market-hostile megacorporation, and is rolling in money.

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft either although I do use some of their products (right now as we speak, Windows) just out of convenience or laziness (it came with my PC) as I got used to it and not that interested or bothered by it to be honest to go for open-source software or go the Apple route (the only conscious choice I made regarding this matter was choosing a games console).
But to say Microsoft is a market-hostile megacorporation is a no-brainer frankly but so is Sony, remember you mentioned Microsoft being sued (and lost, which was instigated by the European Commision by the way)?
Well didn't Sony have some legal issues also regarding the Dual-shock controller which lead to the first PS3 controllers coming without this function (I know, got 2 of them which came with my PS3) and which made me have to buy a new DS3 when it finally arrived.
If Sony found itself in the same position regarding certain products, be sure they would act the same way if they could (like most corporations, small or mega).

All this however has nothing to do with the choice made by PD to include inferior looking previous generation cars lacking features in their first full title on the current gen of consoles.
Having the last laugh in the eternal fanboy war isn't yet a certainty regarding this issue at least.
"Expect perfection"? Rather "except perfection", GT5 will no doubt turn out to be a great game overall (it sure has the momentum right now), it isn't however the ultimate blow out to settle this argument yet.
Like you I respect Kaz (maybe not on the same level though), although I did wish GT5 would be closer to the perfect game he has invisioned in his mind than the one we're getting, having a perfect vision is one thing, knowing how to consistently, coherently and efficiently materialize it may not be his strong suit.
Not saying I could do better, just saying his enormous talent regarding a lot of issues has its limits too, he probably indeed needs a vacation and a clear mind and focus when working on GT6.
 
I really am not sure.

Apparently this is a picture of the Pagani Zonda C12S in GT5. If it's correct then no, the cars do not look as good as they do in GT5P. In fact they don't. Someone else here said They cars basically look like GT4 cars in HD and I'm inclinded to believe them.

2z3s70z.jpg

So I guess PD just upgraded the cars from Prologue to Premium and added more Premium cars to that and made the standard cars somewhat better looking than the GT4 cars......Does anyone have any screen-shots of a race filled with standard cars only? This whole standard vs premium thing is really interesting to me :) I think it is because I was under the impression that the cars in Prologue were created to show what could be done in a short period of time and that the Premuim cars are what could be done if PD took the time to really make the cars look realistic. It would seem that the cars in Prologue are in fact closer to Premium cars than they are to Standard cars. Still can't wait to play the game.... Come on Wednesday!!!!!!!!!!
 
I found some veyron pics to compare (if we can do that in this thread, I saw some GT5/F3 comparisons before).

Please don't.

While I appreciate the level headed nature of your post, we already have threads dedicated to discussions regarding FM vs GT and this thread is for discussion regarding standard vs premium models.

Every time FM is brought into the mix it ends up with daft flame bait and arguments for the next x number of pages.

Guys no more with the GT vs FM in here please, that goes for Sony vs MS discussions too.

Seriously anyone who ignores me on this will be getting a 10 point infraction.




Thanks

Scaff
 
Those Forza images use a model that's a far higher quality than the one used during gameplay. Bullshots have really been one of the worst things to happen this generation.

That makes it even worse, because that GT5 image of the Veyron is also not from gameplay and is of far higher quality in the replay mode shown.

Come on, I hope these standard images are not true. I will be the judge come Wednesday, but I think we are getting some BS photos from some photoshoppers to be honest.
 
Those Forza images use a model that's a far higher quality than the one used during gameplay. Bullshots have really been one of the worst things to happen this generation.

Whilst this is true, it's also not quite right. Yes, the models in Forza 3 have a slighty higher LOD and use 4xAA instead of 2xAA in photo mode but as for the actual car models, they're practically the same as they are in gameplay. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference where the Veyron is concerned.

Some other cars do lose more detail during gameplay in Forza 3 such as the Ferrari F40 Competizione aroudn the back grill. In gameplay the stuff behind the grill isn't rendered in 3d with polygons whereas in photo mode it is. Other than that it's the same.

On the subject of GT5 though, it's only the past day or so I've actually come to realise the scope of this standard vs premium. I mean, truthfully, when you look at cars like that zonda with it's low polygon count and practically a HD GT4 version, you have to think to yourself, well, there is actually only 200 or so new cars in the game. The rest of them are all "upgraded" GT4 models. So really, just what HAVE they been doing for 6 years? Seriously?
 

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