Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SuperCobraJet]

I am sorry, you do not know what you are talking about.

I don't?

Well then enlighten me.

By your explanation GT4 would look much improved by just playing it on the PS3.

Thats not the case.

Please tell me why.



OOps sorry for the double post.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Meh. From everything we've seen so far, I'm firmly in the "ported-over GT4 models" camp. It's only because my eyes work properly.

That being said, I completely agree with SCJ that as this isn't the final, release copy, we don't know for certain if this is representative of Standard cars we'll be playing with come November 2nd. Given PD's usual development time, it's incredibly likely they are, but not a sure thing. Or hell, they could be throwing a curve ball by showing us these Standards, while work on updating them to a level not so last-gen has actually advanced pretty far behind the scenes. We don't know.

But how people can watch the Standard vid, or look at the image comparisons, and not recognize GT4 models... that, I don't understand.

By your explanation GT4 would look much improved by just playing it on the PS3.

Er... I think he means the cars look better in GT5 than they did in GT4 not due to just being on the PS3, but being in GT5's lighting engine.

 

[kingcars]

I know what hypothetical means, but I don't think you do.
The image didn't come from the released game.
So it is still as of yet, a hypothetical rendering of what we may get.

So according to you, the fact that we're getting a racing game with cars in it is also hypothetical. Maybe it'll come out on release day and be a first person shooter set on Mars.

 

[Bellzie]

would it be possible to upgrade a standard car to premium spec after the game is released through patches/dlc??

 

[SlipZtrEm]

would it be possible to upgrade a standard car to premium spec after the game is released through patches/dlc??

There's no reason for that not to be the case, and is a pretty logical plan. KY has expressed his dislike for DLC in the past, but they did offer the upgrades to GT5P, so here's hoping for the Premium numbers to be continually built up over the months/years.

I really, really hope that "Standards", in their current state, are really a last-resort, and no more cars will be modelled to that standard, but always aimed for Premium. It doesn't make sense to work with a woefully out-of-date quality level, especially since the basic design limits the features available to the entire tier (proper physical damage, for example).

 

[SuperCobraJet]

So according to you, the fact that we're getting a racing game with cars in it is also hypothetical. Maybe it'll come out on release day and be a first person shooter set on Mars.

No, not exactly.

But do you know exactly what cars will be in the game or exactly how many?

No, it is still unconfirmed.

Look, I'm not saying when we get the game that the standard cars may not look exactly like that screenshot. But I'm not saying they will either.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm in denial.

I just don't see how with 1080p HD and 3D, they would'nt have to look better than GT4.

It just doesn't seem to add up.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GT4 ran in 1080i. And GT5's lighting/shading/rendering is extremely impressive. If it's all running at 60fps, GT4 models can be used without looking completely out of place.

They just won't look as good as proper current-gen models, whether it's Premium GT5 models or models from other games/platforms

 

[kingcars]

I just don't see how with 1080p HD and 3D, they would'nt have to look better than GT4.

It just doesn't seem to add up.

I've never once said that they don't look better than they do in GT4. I'm saying that the actual models are THE same. That does NOT include the lighting, resolution or texture differences. JUST the ACTUAL 3D model. Nobody seems to understand...

 

[JDMKING13]

I've never once said that they don't look better than they do in GT4. I'm saying that the actual models are THE same. That does NOT include the lighting, resolution or texture differences. JUST the ACTUAL 3D model. Nobody seems to understand...

I understand you, but who cares? In the end they look better then GT4 PS2 version like you said.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

*sigh*

nobody's arguing that. We're saying they're far from the standards set by nearly everything else this generation. 5k poly models that use textures in place of depth looked great in 2004. They are quite literally last-generation in 2010.

 

[JDMKING13]

*sigh*

nobody's arguing that. We're saying they're far from the standards set by nearly everything else this generation. 5k poly models that use textures in place of depth looked great in 2004. They are quite literally last-generation in 2010.

I understand and respect your opinion, but thats your opinion. I think they look very good compared to all the other racing games i have. Not only that the experience with these cars will be better than all the racing games i play (Forza3 NFS)

 

[evilfoxhound]

We're saying they're far from the standards set by nearly everything else this generation.

Appart from a few low-res textures, I thought they looked fine in that video.

Could easily stand up to most other racers this gen.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

GT4 ran in 1080i. And GT5's lighting/shading/rendering is extremely impressive. If it's all running at 60fps, GT4 models can be used without looking completely out of place.

They just won't look as good as proper current-gen models, whether it's Premium GT5 models or models from other games/platforms

If thats the case, then it is possible the FM3 boys will have a legitimate point about the modeling of 800 or so cars in GT5 being sub-par.

Although, 200 will probably be better than current gen.

I would still have to reserve judgement until I play the game and see for myself.

Thats one of the problems with taking almost 6 yrs to make the game.
Expectations can grow beyond GT5 to GT6 proportions or at least GT5.5.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If thats the case, then it is possible the FM3 boys will have a legitimate point about the modeling of 800 or so cars in GT5 being sub-par.

Although, 200 will probably be better than current gen.

I would still have to reserve judgement until I play the game and see for myself.

Thats one of the problems with taking almost 6 yrs to make the game.
Expectations can grow beyond GT5 to GT6 proportions or at least GT5.5.

I know it's easier for you to lump everything in a black & white way ("FM3 boys")... but I'm critical of this Standard car thing, and I don't prefer FM over GT. It is a legit point though; using GT4 models, even with high-res textures (if we do get an upgrade) are still low-rent compared to the current-gen.

Agreed, 200 are definitely above-par for the generation. No qualms with that statement.

And about the expectations, also agreed; it doesn't help that PD helps to build them up. Did they tell us to expect two levels of detail a year ago? Yeah, they did. But they also told us GTHD, which was just a demo showing what an uprated GT4 would look like with PS3's power, wasn't going to be indicative at all of GT5. Now, sadly, it looks like the majority of the car lineup is exactly that.

Like it's been said before though (and by you), we don't know for sure yet. And even if the game we get on November 2nd does have Standards exactly like how we've seen them so far... at least we know (or at least hope) that from here on out, Premiums will grow in numbers, only to be the actual Standard. Both for the game, and the entire generation. Which would be nice, huh?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I know it's easier for you to lump everything in a black & white way ("FM3 boys")... but I'm critical of this Standard car thing, and I don't prefer FM over GT. It is a legit point though; using GT4 models, even with high-res textures (if we do get an upgrade) are still low-rent compared to the current-gen.

Agreed, 200 are definitely above-par for the generation. No qualms with that statement.

And about the expectations, also agreed; it doesn't help that PD helps to build them up. Did they tell us to expect two levels of detail a year ago? Yeah, they did. But they also told us GTHD, which was just a demo showing what an uprated GT4 would look like with PS3's power, wasn't going to be indicative at all of GT5. Now, sadly, it looks like the majority of the car lineup is exactly that.

Like it's been said before though (and by you), we don't know for sure yet. And even if the game we get on November 2nd does have Standards exactly like how we've seen them so far... at least we know (or at least hope) that from here on out, Premiums will grow in numbers, only to be the actual Standard. Both for the game, and the entire generation. Which would be nice, huh?

I point out the FM3 thing only because, at least IMO, it is the most comparative current gen game. I have and play FM3 and I think its a pretty good game, but again IMO it isn't likely to hold a candle to GT5.

The standard cars rendering is only one aspect of the game and certainly not the most critical.

As to the your last question:

YES, absolutely.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I understand and respect your opinion, but thats your opinion. I think they look very good compared to all the other racing games i have. Not only that the experience with these cars will be better than all the racing games i play (Forza3 NFS)

So you recognize they're out of date, understand that current-gen racers have far more advanced models... but still favour them?

I'm done feeding the trolls.

The standard cars rendering is only one aspect of the game and certainly not the most critical.

As to the your last question:

YES, absolutely.

Technically, I guess you're right. It isn't the most critical when we look at the online code, or the physics. The thing is, I have faith in those working out. I'm not used to PD actually deciding not to meet the competition... which the Standards do. It's sad, but in the long-term... we get Premiums, which are well above everything else. It's a trade-off... just one I didn't expect after 5 years of waiting.

On that last bit, though: Aw yeah 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

I understand and respect your opinion, but thats your opinion. I think they look very good compared to all the other racing games i have. Not only that the experience with these cars will be better than all the racing games i play (Forza3 NFS)

So you recognize they're out of date, understand that current-gen racers have far more advanced models... but still favour them?

I'm done feeding the trolls.

Troll?? You say they are out of date even though you saw 1 little @$$ clip of standard cars and the game has not been released yet. All i said i respect your opinion but don't agree with you they look fine with all games a play. Please don't call me a troll 👍

To me all you cry about is standard car graphics not meeting up with other games. i don't care all about graphics. These 800 cars are going to drive better than any racing game i played on a console thats what i'm looking for.

 

[Luminis]

You say they are out of date even though you saw 1 little @$$ clip of standard cars and the game has not been released yet.

PD said they were taken from GT4. Polished or not, they've been created prior to 2004. And that is out of date, one way or another; they've got a low poly count, the details aren't modelled but painted on with textures, they're one-piece models that allow superficial damage and customisation only = they're outdated.

On another note:

Troll?? You say they are out of date even though you saw 1 little @$$ clip of standard cars and the game has not been released yet. All i said i respect your opinion but don't agree with you they look fine with all games a play. Please don't call me a troll 👍

To me all you cry about is standard car graphics not meeting up with other games. i don't care all about graphics. These 800 cars are going to drive better than any racing game i played on a console thats what i'm looking for.

You're blaming other people for judging the standard cars based on a single trailer, but you're judging how they drive based on, well, nothing?

 

[JDMKING13]

PD said they were taken from GT4. Polished or not, they've been created prior to 2004. And that is out of date, one way or another; they've got a low poly count, the details aren't modelled but painted on with textures, they're one-piece models that allow superficial damage and customisation only = they're outdated.

But you forgot they will have GT5 physics. Again i dont care so much about graphics yes they are important but if the car dont drive right who cares how beautiful it is. This is Forza3 problem IMO

You're blaming other people for judging the standard cars based on a single trailer, but you're judging how they drive based on, well, nothing?

WOW So you didn't read they were going to run on GT5 physics your funny guy i see your post crying about these standard cars you guys make me laugh.

 

[kingcars]

But you forgot they will have GT5 physics. Again i dont care so much about graphics yes they are important but if the car dont drive right who cares how beautiful it is. This is Forza3 problem IMO

I like how you totally ignored the next part of his post. Well played.

 

[Luminis]

But you forgot they will have GT5 physics. Again i dont care so much about graphics yes they are important but if the car dont drive right who cares how beautiful it is. This is Forza3 problem IMO

The cars' physics have nothing to do with the models that are being used, so no, I didn't forget that. It just means that the physic engine will not have two tiers of cars.

WOW So you didn't read they were going to run on GT5 physics your funny guy i see your post crying about these standard cars you guys make me laugh.

What's making me laugh is that I said you have no experience with how they handle. Of course they're running on GT5's physics, but have you played the full GT5 yet? If not, you don't have any experience to judge them by. Remember that the physics have been changed since GT5P.

And seeing that you can't even tell physic engines and car models apart, I suppose I shouldn't be suprised by your reaction to my post, should I?

 

[kingcars]

The cars' physics have nothing to do with the models that are being used, so no, I didn't forget that. It just means that the physic engine will not have two tiers of cars.

But didn't you know that, as a loyal fanb...I mean...customer, it's your DUTY to sugar coat every bad decision made by PD?

 

[JDMKING13]

The cars' physics have nothing to do with the models that are being used, so no, I didn't forget that. It just means that the physic engine will not have two tiers of cars.

Ding Ding Ding. Thats the most important aspect buddy you are acting like the cars are going to look like GT4 on the PS2. I bet when you play with them you will forget about the poly count they have, and focus on how well they drive 👍

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I like how you totally ignored the next part of his post. Well played.

Posting is kinda like boxing, you gotta duck, move and jab.

 

[analog]

But didn't you know that, as a loyal fanb...I mean...customer, it's your DUTY to sugar coat every bad decision made by PD?

 

[kingcars]

Posting is kinda like boxing, you gotta duck, move and jab.

Hahahaha that's going into my sig 👍

 

[Luminis]

Ding Ding Ding. Thats the most important aspect buddy you are acting like the cars are going to look like GT4 on the PS2. I bet when you play with them you will forget about the poly count they have, and focus on how well they drive 👍

I only supported another user's opinion that the car models are outdated. Nothing more, nothing less. You're the one who dragged the physic engine into this, which is completely besides the point, as I was talking about the models only. Not how they drive, not even how they look; just that they are outdated.

 

[JDMKING13]

But didn't you know that, as a loyal fanb...I mean...customer, it's your DUTY to sugar coat every bad decision made by PD?

Your so funny king and immature. Lets see king ill give you a choice ok.

Forz3, NFS, GT5 with only standard cars. You can only play one game, and it has to be for a year which one would you pick and why.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Your so funny king and immature. Lets see king ill give you a choice ok.

Forz3, NFS, GT5 with only standard cars. You can only play one game, and it has to be for a year which one would you pick and why.

Uh oh, I think he's going for a knockout punch.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Don't bother guys. JDM will continue to purposely avoid the point that the conversation is about the models. Not about the physics. It's apparently too difficult to grasp that physics don't enter this equation. Just look at the posting history.

Photoshop skills needed to convert that flag into a PD logo? I'm stuck at work