Yeah it's a REALLY long claim haha. Theres so much proof out there that the models are largely unchanged from GT4...which have maybe 1/40th of the detail that prologue cars have (and thats being VERY generous with polycounts in favor of the GT4 models). It's not even close...not within miles.
Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
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Yeah it's a REALLY long claim haha. Theres so much proof out there that the models are largely unchanged from GT4...which have maybe 1/40th of the detail that prologue cars have (and thats being VERY generous with polycounts in favor of the GT4 models). It's not even close...not within miles.
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That was brought up a while ago... power wise it makes sense, but we haven't heard of it anywhere... it seems like it would have been brought up by now no?
The shame in it is that NASCAR is all premiums so where it would REALLY count, it's out of the question...
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
We don't know because Kaz is going to be releasing info a bit at a time. Something like having more cars in Standard Car races is probably a big talking point that Kaz is keeping for GamesCom or TGS. And he did mention in an interview that he was going to try and get the game engine to work with more than 16 cars in race, so we'll see.
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- Organ-Donor
Maybe more cars on track for standard cars would make the "I'm not gonna touch standard cars" people reconsider. Larger grids would add alot of fun if the AI is improved, and the online races would be pretty sweet . The only thing with bigger grids for standard cars would mean only standard cars on track without premium cars, which would split the game up into two seperate halves, something I wouldn't want to see.
After watching old GT Vision videos with a good 30+ cars on track really makes me hope that they end up doing that for standard cars. It would definitely make the standard cars more useful and more attractive from a gameplay standpoint.
The bolded part is actually exactly what I want to see. Having both tiers on track at the same time is going to look ridiculous. 400,000+ poly car with amazing textures and fully modeled detail followed by a 7,000 poly car with limo tint, blurry textures and drawn-in details. No thanks. It will completely break the immersion of the game; especially if a premium car and standard car get into a wreck.
The bolded part is actually exactly what I want to see. Having both tiers on track at the same time is going to look ridiculous. 400,000+ poly car with amazing textures and fully modeled detail followed by a 7,000 poly car with limo tint, blurry textures and drawn-in details. No thanks. It will completely break the immersion of the game; especially if a premium car and standard car get into a wreck.
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- Organ-Donor
Maybe if your in photomode or park them next to eachother, but when your racing 150mph in motion I don't think it will bother me as much. I could be wrong, a vid or screen shot with both on the track would clarify it better. I just don't like the idea of not being able to race certian cars against eachother because of the standard/premium stickers on them, it just breaks the game up too much IMO.
I also see where your comming from, about the two different models clashing and breaking the immersion.
The differences are very easy to pick apart; even during a race I know I'll be driving by cars thinking "premium...premium...ugh a standard..." etc. The windows alone would be an immediate giveaway, along with illegible decals due to bad textures, blocky body lines etc.
When 2 different modelling levels are on track at one time, it really hurts the gameplay experience. Even when modding PC games where there can be much less of a poly count and detail difference, it kills the game for me to have cars of different quality on track together; I'm very picky when I decide which cars to keep and which to remove from the game because of that.
And can you imagine seeing a wreck between a premium and a standard? How dumb will it look when one car has dents and body panels flopping while the other just has a couple of scratches in the paint? Very dumb if you ask me.
Agreed. Not only would it make standard cars a lot of fun to use, it could also stand as another way to show off the PS3's horsepower without having to make uber-high poly models. I definitely wouldn't mind GT4 ported models if it meant I could race against 25-30 AI opponents. The limitation would actually be in the amount of AI and physics calculations possible, not polygon counts.
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I was looking at the GT4 section photo galleries and it really shows the beauty of the cars in GT4. Knowing the standard cars are going to look better than the PS2 version make me happy. The visual upgrade and physics upgrade make me a happy man.
As someone who spent a lot of time in the photo galleries section, don't take those images as anything representative of what GT4 actually looks like. Many of us fiddled with our pictures post-PS2 a lot. There are raw, unedited images floating around over there, but they're the minority. Plenty of us learned ways around the GT4 models' drawbacks; I've redrawn panel gaps, cleaned up shoddy textures by hand, and improved the lighting and shadows myself. And provided more accurate blurring in some cases too.
...and the shading/lighting demands of 30 cars
.It would make the Standard car pill a lot easier to swallow, really. Having that many cars on track would make for a lot of fun.
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- GTP_bullie77
You're not sure about my point because you are, again, making an abusive interpretation out of my words and trying to read things beyond what in fact it's written.
If YOU think the visually quality of Standard cars is fine, that's OK by me. It's your own opinion. I conceed that, when observed alone or next to other standard cars, they aren't all that bad. I have absolutely nothing against people having this (or whatever other) opinion.
Want I do manifest against however is "people trying to throw-in sand to other people's eyes", with statements such as "they look as good as Premium cars", "they are much alike GT5
quality", etc, something that it is absolutely incorrect. I'm sorry to say but to claim that visually the quality of the standard cars seen at E3 standard car videos is close to or similar GT5, I can only explain that under the lights of extreme fanboyism and denial.See the difference however? I'm OK with whatever opinions YOU might have about standards/premium cars, as long as YOU don't try to enforce it on others based on things that are not correct. (please note the YOU used it's not towards you personally but in a generic sense).
My point of view of the matter is simple and based on the roots of the series. On of its many attibutes is the way all cars, from the slowest can thin to the high-tech spec racing machine, were equally treated and presented. That's a pillar of the series, and having for whatever reasons two tiers of car qualities and features is simply against this.
To preserve that "integrity", that "consistency", there are only two options:
a) Get rid-off of Premium cars and release the game with 800+ Standards;
b) Get rid-off of Standard cars and release the game with 200+ Premiums;
a) would get that consistency undoubtly but would go against two other pillars of the game which are graphics quality and evolution. Standard cars as we have seen are below the graphical and features and represent a retrocess (not an evolution) of what was shown in GT5
. So to keep those pillars untouched the only logical solution would be b).I'm totally OK to other people having different opinions on this and defend the way things are is better, or standard cars only, whatever. What I found abusive and disrespectful is people trying to convinced others of the superiority of their argument using things that are absolutely ridiculous like that of comparing standards with FM3 cars.
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Well, you're going to be a very frustrated bullie then, because neither of your two options are going to make anyone but a small handful of people happy. Maybe just you for that matter. It seems that the rest of GT Planet are either happy with the two tier system or are warming up to the idea. I'd suggest whatever cathartic method works for you to work out your frustration, because your wish doesn't line up with reality.
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- GTP_bullie77
Why me stating that I disagree with the path choosed by PD is synonimous of being frustrated? Is it hard to understand that I can buy a game, enjoy it, but still have some criticism about it?
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No, you have to like everything about Gran Turismo 5. Kazunori and PD are never going to make a wrong decission. Their effort alone forbids any kind of criticism. We all have to be grateful for what they are amply giving out to us, as we may only think of it as a gift; and humbly offer our money to impeccable PD in an attempt to praise them. If that doesn't fly with you, GTFO GT5.Why me stating that I disagree with the path choosed by PD is synonimous of being frustrated? Is it hard to understand that I can buy a game, enjoy it, but still have some criticism about it?
I don't have to use sarcasm tags, do I?
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Why me stating that I disagree with the path choosed by PD is synonimous of being frustrated? Is it hard to understand that I can buy a game, enjoy it, but still have some criticism about it?
Seems pretty definitive. And now it sounds like you're saying, "I'll enjoy GT5 but I sure won't like it."
I don't know, I guess I'm not helping any. I'll just let you fume here on the boards. It will probably be a good release of steam anyway.
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After all this time you still manage to surprise me - you really should work on that condescending attitude of yours. 💡
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Here you go.
FTFY.Seems pretty definitive. And now it sounds like you're saying, "I'll enjoy GT5 but I sure won't like having two tiers of cars."
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Well, not taking one or other side in this discussion but the Standard cars look decent, nowhere near the quality of GT5P but still good enough to look and decent to watch in the replays.
I'm not saying "Oh my god, I'm completely satisfied in having only 200 Premium cars", but this is what we're getting, I always stated I just wanted Prologue with more content, but the new features are a nice addition and worth the onus of having just a fraction of the cars, modeled in GT5 spec.
But that's just my opinion and I honestly respect who thinks otherwise, many people prefer to have only Premium cars in the game, others like the Standards too, and I see and understand their points, but regardless of what happened, a feeling of betrayal remains in the air, mostly due to the high standards previously established in Prologue and not doable in time for the full game. So again, PD lacked planning to do this game, a project whose scope was getting bigger and requirements were changed on the fly, if you analyze by this side of the facts, and realize all the bad planning done, it's a miracle we're finally getting something to play. Let's hope they don't do this again for GT6.
Two cents, from a resigned fan.
I'm not saying "Oh my god, I'm completely satisfied in having only 200 Premium cars", but this is what we're getting, I always stated I just wanted Prologue with more content, but the new features are a nice addition and worth the onus of having just a fraction of the cars, modeled in GT5 spec.
But that's just my opinion and I honestly respect who thinks otherwise, many people prefer to have only Premium cars in the game, others like the Standards too, and I see and understand their points, but regardless of what happened, a feeling of betrayal remains in the air, mostly due to the high standards previously established in Prologue and not doable in time for the full game. So again, PD lacked planning to do this game, a project whose scope was getting bigger and requirements were changed on the fly, if you analyze by this side of the facts, and realize all the bad planning done, it's a miracle we're finally getting something to play. Let's hope they don't do this again for GT6.
Two cents, from a resigned fan.
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- GTP_bullie77
Seems pretty definitive. And now it sounds like you're saying, "I'll enjoy GT5 but I sure won't like it."
I don't know, I guess I'm not helping any. I'll just let you fume here on the boards. It will probably be a good release of steam anyway.
I think you're being a little narrowminded here: I imagine you like sports and support some team. Do you always agree with the decisions made by the board of directors? Or do you criticize some of those decisions, that you're against and still you support your team?
Get it?
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Thanks Lumis.. Much appreciated.
O.k from that I can understand some of the frustration but in all fairness some people are majorly overreacting. Whilst granted they are not GT5 quality they still are good enough and accurately detailed to the extent that in a race or replay won't detract.
Obviously photo mode would be pretty pointless however. Come release I'm sure most people will be glad to have these cars in despite the lack of quality compared to the premiums. Too expect 1k premiums would be very very optimistic in the first place.
O.k from that I can understand some of the frustration but in all fairness some people are majorly overreacting. Whilst granted they are not GT5
quality they still are good enough and accurately detailed to the extent that in a race or replay won't detract. Obviously photo mode would be pretty pointless however. Come release I'm sure most people will be glad to have these cars in despite the lack of quality compared to the premiums. Too expect 1k premiums would be very very optimistic in the first place.
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I don't know that 1000 premiums was that optimistic. The number that was always chucked around for modelling was that one car took 6 months. Presumably, that's six man-months/six months of one guy working on it, because otherwise they'd only have thirty six cars. Extrapolate that by 5 years and you're looking at a modelling team of 30-35 people to get it done. That doesn't seem like that many people to me, and it's certainly not out of the realms of possibility.
Why they were unable to do it, or chose not to is anyone's guess. It'd be interesting to hear an educated person's guess on the division of labour in a 100-150 person dev team like PD has, but that's probably beyond the scope of this thread.
SuperCobraJet
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gtracedriver
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There are some videos where they have shown 12 and even 16 premium cars on track. So standard cars definitely should not have any problem in making 16 cars. In fact I think all race involving standard cars will have 16 of them. May be even more if the car models are not great. But so far they haven't said anything so I guess 16 is maximum.
