Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Dan_]

PD said damage won't be necessarily enabled in all races, so the Standards and Premiums will live altogether and happy at the same race.

Being so, the maximum number will likely be 16 cars t the track, the possibility of a Standard only event still, and then more than 16 is perhaps possible, depending on how costly the physics model is to the PS3 hardware. We'll find more about it only when the game ships, as always.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

I remember hearing about the 6 months per car modelling time frame in 2007. At the time I genuinely though the following:
-that was an exaggeration to empathise the fidelity of the car models
-that in the near future, the 6 months time frame will be drastically reduced as PD acquires better technology or streamlines the process
-that PD has a much bigger team than 40 3D modellers, and whatever the size of the team was, it would be increased significantly to ensure those 1000+ cars target would be met
-that the delays of GT5 development back in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now 2010 have most likely prompted PD to outsource a lot of the 3D modelling work 👍

Why did I think that? Because it was the clever, normal, intelligent thing to assume. Not in a million years did I think Sony, or any other firm in the world, would bankroll a stupid idea to model cars in such detail that they can only do 200 in over 5 years. For example GT4 was already less successful than GT3 and took more time and money to develop, and sold less copies than GT3... Even so, in 4 years development, GT4 came with 4 times more cars and tracks than GT5 will in nearly 6 years! I'm ignoring the Standard cars when counting as these are not new models. So my assumption was this: There is no way Sony, PD or (detached from game development reality and business model while probably unintentionally alienating one of the biggest franchise fan base in the world) KY would do such a stupid thing. Correct?

Now even if this is the case and this idiotic plan of game development was accepted back in 2005, in over 5 years a team of 40 3D modellers could have managed 400+ cars, but GT5 has 200! Why? As some rightly explained it's most likely because the 3D modellers had to develop many other assets. Of course the illustrious GT PSP financial success was in the way, (Yes I am being sarcastic), and also the demo for sale, GT5P, and the numerous 1 off demo versions along the way. But still, at no point someone at Sony or PD raised the alarm and said: "Guys this is not working out! We need to seriously increase or outsource workforce, even if the QC is still done after by PD. Trying to explain to fans and general public that in the last 5+ years we've done 200 cars is bound to make us look like amateurs. It's not like there is much room for turning back, we've had KY running around going on about the incredible 1000+ car models, the weather, night racing and so on. Fans have seen GT5P and would obviously expect even more in GT5."

Something should have been done about this when the above was clearly apparent. At least that's what development, business, PR and downright common sense would have inspired most software development companies and publishers out there. One only has to look at the content that COD games developers produce every 2 years, to see what good management of the above can produce in terms of franchise success and profit returns.

But no, after all these years this bipolar GT5 is what the we, the fans, are supposed to swallow. Well it's not happening, as can be seen not only on GTP but other websites. Why? Most of the fans and potential GT buyers may have a lot more of the grey matter, that Sony, PD and KY would like to believe.

Here is the skinny: The biased PR spinners , blinded fans and the weak of mind will post on this website, and others, how all the above is nonsense and how GT5 is going to still be the best thing ever and will sell like crazy. But the reality is the above and the truth will be very apparent when GT5 goes on sale. It's cost considerably more than GT3 + GT4 to make and took as long as the 2 put together. Yes GT5P may have recuperated some of that cost but nowhere near enough to offset. We'll see if it sells more than GT3 + GT4 in a world in recession, a less PS3 favourable than PS2 console market, and with a lot more driving games of the same vein as GT on the market and new ones released around the same time...

 

[kingcars]

I totally agree with you, Cobra. I was actually going to bring up a similar situation with a game I used to follow during its development, called STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl. Started off as a very impressive sounding game with awesome features never before seen in an FPS. After years of delays and the project being tossed around to different companies, they came out and said "Hey guys, this is a bit more to bite off than we can chew, so we have to remove some features." They did not come out and say "We had to stop after finishing the first 2 levels then do the rest with left over Half Life 1 assets" 5 months before release. And in probably the smartest move, they took advantage of the PC platform and left most of the code for those extra features in the game for modders to perfect and release (in fact they even somewhat-recently released the old levels from old old screenshots and videos).

But back to the point at hand, I really think it was dumb of PD to claim to have 1000 cars in a game. Anybody who sees that is never going to think "oh, most of those are probably GT4 models." No other racing game, or ANY game for that matter, has pulled such a trick. You see a screenshot of a game and you expect the whole game to be up to that standard. Nobody saw Half Life 2 screenshots and expected the last 10 levels to look like Half Life 1. Nobody saw NFS Shift screenshots and figured some of it would have old Hot Pursuit 2 models. I don't see why PD should get away with something that no other gaming company could.

 

[RedSuinit]

I remember hearing about the 6 months per car modelling time frame in 2007. At the time I genuinely though the following:
-that was an exaggeration to empathise the fidelity of the car models
-that in the near future, the 6 months time frame will be drastically reduced as PD acquires better technology or streamlines the process
-that PD has a much bigger team than 40 3D modellers, and whatever the size of the team was, it would be increased significantly to ensure those 1000+ cars target would be met
-that the delays of GT5 development back in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now 2010 have most likely prompted PD to outsource a lot of the 3D modelling work 👍

Why did I think that? Because it was the clever, normal, intelligent thing to assume. Not in a million years did I think Sony, or any other firm in the world, would bankroll a stupid idea to model cars in such detail that they can only do 200 in over 5 years. For example GT4 was already less successful as GT3 and took more time and money to develop, and sold less copies than GT3... Even so, in 4 years development, GT4 came with 4 times more cars and tracks than GT5 will most likely in nearly 6 years! I'm ignoring the Standard cars when counting as these are not new models. So my assumption was this: There is no way Sony, PD or (detached from game development reality and business model while probably unintentionally alienating one of the biggest franchise fan base in the world) KY would do such a stupid thing. Correct?

Now even if this is the case and this idiotic plan of game development was accepted back in 2005, in over 5 years a team of 40 3D modellers could have managed 400+ cars, but GT5 has 200! Why? As some rightly explained it's most likely because the 3D modellers had to develop many other assets. Of course the illustrious GT PSP financial success was in the way, (yes I am being sarcastic), and also the demo for sale, GT5P, and the numerous 1 off demo versions along the way. But still, at no point someone at Sony or PD raised the alarm and said: "Guys this is not working out! We need to seriously increase or outsource workforce, even if the QC is still done after by PD. Telling them in the last 5+ years we've done 200 cars is bound to make us look like amateurs. It's not like there is much room for turning back, we've had KY running around going on about the incredible 1000+ car models, the weather, night racing and so on. Fans have seen GT5P and would obviously expect even more in GT5."

Something should have been done about this when the above was clearly apparent. At least that's what development, business, PR and downright common sense would have inspired most software development companies and publishers out there. One only has to look at the content that COD games produce every 2 years, to see what good management of the above can produce in terms of franchise success and profit returns.

But no, after all these years this bipolar GT5 is what the we, the fans, are supposed to swallow. Well it's not happening, as can be seen not only on GTP but other websites. Why? Most of the fans and potential GT buyers may have a lot more of the grey matter, that Sony, PD and KY would like to believe.

Here is the skinny: The biased PR spinners , blinded fans and the weak of mind will post on this website, and others, how all the above is nonsense and how GT5 is going to still be the best thing ever and will sell like crazy. But the reality is the above and the truth will be very apparent when GT5 goes on sale. It's cost considerably more than GT3 + GT4 to make and took as long as the two put together. Yes GT5P may have recuperated some of that cost but nowhere near enough to offset. We'll see if it sells more than GT3 + GT4 in a world in recession, a less PS3 favourable than PS2 console market, and with a lot more driving games of the same vein as GT on the market and new ones released around the same time...

How many copies of GT5P were sold again? Wasn't it like 4 or 5 million?? If Prologue sold that well, I am sure GT5 will sell MUCH better than that. Then didn't the GT5 GT Academy demo get downloaded some 15 million times? I think it will be just fine.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

...Nobody saw Half Life 2 screenshots and expected the last 10 levels to look like Half Life 1. Nobody saw NFS Shift screenshots and figured some of it would have old Hot Pursuit 2 models...

That pretty much sums my super long post. Something to be said about short and sweet, and funny too. 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

Cobra, I think you have a few unforced errors in your post.

GT5 has been out four years less than GT3. And believe it or not, is still for sale, and with a huge number of used copies on the market. Yes, GT3 sold over 14 million and GT4 a mere 11 million, but it's never going to catch GT3 until GT3 is dumped completely into the used bins, and possibly not even then, with the huge numbers of copies for sale new and used either one. However, I have to scoff that people still insist that GT4 "clearly wasn't as successful" with a mere eleven million copies sold. Plus, stating that:

We'll see if (GT5) sells more than GT3 + GT4 in a world in recession

Is a bit of a baffling statement, since I'm not sure any game is going to sell more than 25 million units even in a roaring economy. Sorry, I'm calling useless text on this one.

Even as expensive as the PS3 is/was, it's still keeping remarkably close pace with PS1 and 2 sales curves. Also flagship games don't seem to correlate to the size of the installed base all that much. When the XBox was at a piddling 18-20 million installed units, 10 million Halo games were still sold. And the PS3 has sold more than 34 million units worldwide. By all indications, PS3s are going to sell even more when GT5 ships, especially since this will be square in the holiday shopping season.

Prologue, even in the shape of a game so small that people consider it a demo, still sold well over 4 million copies. And believe it or not, past performance can be an indicator of future success.

And just to muddy the waters even more, Sean Cole stated in the 15 minute E3 video review of GT5 that the Standard Cars in GT5 were of the quality of Prologue's cars. I'm sure some of you are sharpening your knives even now, but don't blame me, I didn't say it. I'm just presenting food for thought.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

Yes, Tenacious D, GT4 was not as successful as GT3, it cost more money and it took more time to develop, twice the time in fact, and it sold less copies. As I said in my earlier post, there will be many, especially on this forum, that will try to spin what I wrote but that's still a pure fact. Can't quite understand how that's baffling to you but maybe it isn't, maybe You can't handle the truth! I'm saying that out loud but can't quite match Jack's grin and super cool attitude. Whether you like the reality of it or not and whether you scoff at the truth or not.

And yes, in recession sales drop. In a market where the PS3 is not the dominant console, in fact at the moment it's last, behind Wii and XBOX360, sales won't be as good as they were in the PS2 days.

Lastly, wow! GT5P and GTPSP sold a total of around 6 million units in nearly 6 years. Well that's just another true sign of a very successful developer and publisher at work at the helm of the most famous driving game franchise of all time. (There I go with the sarcasm again) So we've gone from selling nearly 25 million units of GT3 + GT4 in 6 years of development to less than 6 million in the same space of time? I'm ignoring GTC, TT and GT4P sales during the same GT3 + GT4 6 years, just to give you a break here. And please, don't scoff at the fact that GT5 has obviously cost more to develop than GT3 + GT4, anyone that knows anything about this generation of HD games knows the costs of development have gone sky high. So now GT5 will have to sell a minimum of 19 million units to barely touch the previous financial success of the GT franchise as to not show a business decline, this is ignoring, as I said previously, GTC, TT and GT4P sales during the same GT3 + GT4 6 years.

Oh so the thing where the Standard cars are as good as in GT5P, as per that, one, quote. Yes we've seen the videos and read the press releases on the official GT website. Sure, as it's with the mindbogglingly hope beyond reason, threads and posts on here, PD are toying with us and, in fact all Standard cars will be of GTP quality. (Yes, yes sarcasm again) Because if 20 reports tell you the truth but you don't like it, hang on to the one quote that tells you otherwise. Well, whatever floats your boat.

You did muddy the waters a little, but I hope I've cleared them up for you.


EDIT: At the beginning of yout post you wrote GT5 has been out 4 years less that GT3, I wish. I think you meant GT4

 

[freshseth83]

Cobra, why don't we talk about GT5, yeah?

See we all know that naysayers exist on these forums, but we don't need anyone telling us things that you THINK are fact that obviously are based off of your OPINIONS.

PS2 was an aging system, GT4 was on the late aging systems last leg. But still sold 11 million. Prologue was released on a new system that was expensive, and was an incomplete game. Prologue is what it's name was. Obviously it's not going to sell 10 million copies. GT5 being as big as a game it is and the fact that the PS3 is now half the price of what it was, plus the implementation of new tech like 3D, move, netflix, dlc; expect GT5 to move systems like all GT games have before it. 10 million or not were not looking for numbers, were looking forward to playing the best racing game there will be.

Say what you want about other games, Forza or whatever, the point is all those games together are what GT5 will be. No game has combined the Rally, F1, Super GT, Nascar, Sports Car, Drift, day to night, damage, realistic physics, etc. etc. together until GT5. No other game comes close. We haven't even tipped the scaled yet of the content GT5 has and yet already we know it'll be bigger than every other racing game.

Point is your reckless banter is off topic, as is my post. This is a GT5 thread, about Standard and premium cars, not sales.

 

[gtone339]

Yeah he's really annoying.

Don't like fanboyism. 👎

Added him to my ignore list. 👍

Okay back on topic: It will be better if we just till Gamescom for more news on this.

 

[JDMKING13]

Cobra, why don't we talk about GT5, yeah?

See we all know that naysayers exist on these forums, but we don't need anyone telling us things that you THINK are fact that obviously are based off of your OPINIONS.

PS2 was an aging system, GT4 was on the late aging systems last leg. But still sold 11 million. Prologue was released on a new system that was expensive, and was an incomplete game. Prologue is what it's name was. Obviously it's not going to sell 10 million copies. GT5 being as big as a game it is and the fact that the PS3 is now half the price of what it was, plus the implementation of new tech like 3D, move, netflix, dlc; expect GT5 to move systems like all GT games have before it. 10 million or not were not looking for numbers, were looking forward to playing the best racing game there will be.

Say what you want about other games, Forza or whatever, the point is all those games together are what GT5 will be. No game has combined the Rally, F1, Super GT, Nascar, Sports Car, Drift, day to night, damage, realistic physics, etc. etc. together until GT5. No other game comes close. We haven't even tipped the scaled yet of the content GT5 has and yet already we know it'll be bigger than every other racing game.

Point is your reckless banter is off topic, as is my post. This is a GT5 thread, about Standard and premium cars, not sales.

👍 Good money right there. I cant wait to play the best racing game on any console.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

...Point is your reckless banter is off topic, as is my post. This is a GT5 thread, about Standard and Premium cars, not sales.

Of course, I simply went on a sales tangent to reply to someone's post.

And my post is not reckless banter, I'd appreciate if you are not insulting as I have not insulted you or whatever you posted. Please and thanks. Hope it's not too much to ask.

Yeah he's really annoying.

Don't like fanboyism. 👎

Added him to my ignore list. 👍

Okay back on topic: It will be better if we just till Gamescom for more news on this.

Post reported. 👎

 

[steve30x]

Post reported. 👎

LMAO You reported that post because he ignored you , because he said your annoying (which I agree with) and because he called you a fanboy? Grow up. Geez!

 

[Cobra_NZ]

LMAO You reported that post because he ignored you , because he said your annoying (which I agree with) and because he called you a fanboy? Grow up. Geez!

I reported his post as he has made personal and flame bait posts aimed at me before and such behaviour, whether you agree with or not, is against the GTP Forums AUP. That very same flame bait has invited other members like yourself continuing and perpetuating the flame war...

I'm not going to be insulting back as I'm not going to lower myself to your level. 👎

 

[steve30x]

If you say so.

 

[EAGLE 5]

The optimist in me thinks the Premium cars are the screenshot detailed versions we see and the regular ones are cars made like the GT5 prologue with details that are a little fuzzy but still have interiors.

The realist in me knows that standard cars will be like the GT5 PSP cars at the most with an outline of the interior.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

The optimist in me thinks the Premium cars are the screenshot detailed versions we see and the regular ones are cars made like the GT5 prologue with details that are a little fuzzy but still have interiors.

The realist in me knows that standard cars will be like the GT5 PSP cars at the most with an outline of the interior.

That's it in a nutshell, I've dreamed, like you guys, of GT5 over the last 5+ long years. The reality slapped me across the face quite hard at E3.

 

[steve30x]

I highly doubt the standard cars will be as bad as the GT PSP cars. I would think they will be as good as the GT5P cars but perhaps without the interior.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, Tenacious D, GT4 was not as successful as GT3, it cost more money and it took more time to develop, twice the time in fact, and it sold less copies. As I said in my earlier post, there will be many, especially on this forum, that will try to spin what I wrote but that's still a pure fact. Can't quite understand how that's baffling to you but maybe it isn't, maybe You can't handle the truth! I'm saying that out loud but can't quite match Jack's grin and super cool attitude. Whether you like the reality of it or not and whether you scoff at the truth or not.

Actually you are both correct, it simply depends on how you use the information at hand.

Total Sales
GT3 - 14 million
GT4 - 10 million
Winner = GT3

Sales per year
GT3 - 14 million / 9 years sales = 1.55 million per year
GT4 - 10 million / 6 years = 1.66 million per year
Winner = GT4

Facts are great this way, you can use them to say just about anything you want.

And yes, in recession sales drop. In a market where the PS3 is not the dominant console, in fact at the moment it's last, behind Wii and XBOX360, sales won't be as good as they were in the PS2 days.

Once again we can play with facts to get the results we want

Overall sales worldwide
360 - 40.6 million
PS3 - 35.6 million
Winner = 360

Sales per year worldwide
360 - 40.6 / 5 years = 8.12 million per year
PS3 = 35.6 / 4 years = 8.9 million per year
Winner = PS3


The lesson here is quite simple, without context and with added bias statistics are useless.


Scaff

 

[analog]

Cobra_NZ, I mostly agree with you to a point but have one suggestion regarding your posts, please don't use yellow to accentuate your point.
It becomes literally unreadable, if you want to accentuate you might want to use the bold function.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

You know EAGLE 5, I was looking again at some of the screen shots on this thread of the Standard cars and it made me wince again. Especially the Corvette and the LM car.

It makes absolutely no sense to me to stick those Standard cars and Premium cars in the same game, possibly the same races, especially online. In a strange way adding all the 800+ Standard cars seems to do more harm than good...

Cobra_NZ, I mostly agree with you to a point but have one suggestion regarding your posts, please don't use yellow to accentuate your point.
It becomes literally unreadable, if you want to accentuate you might want to use the bold function.

I'll change the color to green now. 👍

 

[Kinetic]

Comes down to this simple fact.. will Cobra buy GT5, here's the answer Yes

 

[analog]

Comes down to this simple fact.. will Cobra buy GT5, here's the answer Yes

Come on please, that's a poor argument and you know it.
It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation for those already owning a PS3 and who love driving games as GT5 is the only one of its sort for this console.
I've owned every GT game ( and TT ) and am a huge fan of this series, that doesn't exclude however possibly being disappointed by it or being critical.
I most certainly will buy it, and therefore any possible "pressure" on PD will be worthless, if at all impacting, as for sales figures.
The only thing this will do is exclude me from having a great time playing GT5 despite possibly being let down by the experience not being what I was anticipating.
The biggest risk for PD is probably not sales but reputation damage which in the long term can also affect sales.

 

[Kinetic]

Hows that poor, he's moaning like he's been so hard done too and so let down if you really feel so strongly then boycott it. If Forza is a much more acceptable substitute then just keep you're 360 and play that. How he argues the point about it.
Thing is people are having these strong opinions without even playing the game to see how the standards look in an actual racing situation bar some one minute clip.

 

[Luminis]

Hows that poor, he's moaning like he's been so hard done too and so let down if you really feel so strongly then boycott it.

So you're saying that you should either buy GT5 and shut up or criticise its flaws and boycott it? Dunno, but first off, that's quite narrow minded. Second, keeping our mouths shut about would only suggest that we are content with the two tier sollution to PD. After all, they said they're reading forums like GTP. Expressing the distain to certain flaws might at least make them work them out for the next GT game.

 

[Kinetic]

So you're saying that you should either buy GT5 and shut up or criticise its flaws and boycott it? Dunno, but first off, that's quite narrow minded. Second, keeping our mouths shut about would only suggest that we are content with the two tier sollution to PD. After all, they said they're reading forums like GTP. Expressing the distain to certain flaws might at least make them work them out for the next GT game.

No you're right to an extent, but in all fairness money spent is money spent.

Theres also expressing disdain and trashing it

 

[RedSuinit]

Come on please, that's a poor argument and you know it.
It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation for those already owning a PS3 and who love driving games as GT5 is the only one of its sort for this console.
I've owned every GT game ( and TT ) and am a huge fan of this series, that doesn't exclude however possibly being disappointed by it or being critical.
I most certainly will buy it, and therefore any possible "pressure" on PD will be worthless, if at all impacting, as for sales figures.
The only thing this will do is exclude me from having a great time playing GT5 despite possibly being let down by the experience not being what I was anticipating.
The biggest risk for PD is probably not sales but reputation damage which in the long term can also affect sales.

What a load of malarky! Every time a GT game comes out, people whine, complain, and talk about how PD has let them down (again) and how this is hurting their image. This same old, and tired trend is downright childish IMO, but it's not limited to GT. This happens to EVERY franchise, including the greatest selling video game series of all time, HALO. All of you who THINK you know what is going to happen because of the complaints, look at the past history of EVERY GAME IN THE WORLD, and you'll see that there has NEVER been a well selling, frequently played video game that hasn't been criticized to death. Yet they still sell, VERY WELL. Why? Because they're still excellent games even though not everyone likes every detail about them. GT5 will be more of the same, and time will prove that.

That is all.

 

[kingcars]

Yeah he's really annoying.

Don't like fanboyism. 👎

Added him to my ignore list. 👍

Darn those pesky facts!! Always getting in the way.

Actually you are both correct, it simply depends on how you use the information at hand.

Total Sales
GT3 - 14 million
GT4 - 10 million
Winner = GT3

Sales per year
GT3 - 14 million / 9 years sales = 1.55 million per year
GT4 - 10 million / 6 years = 1.66 million per year
Winner = GT4

Facts are great this way, you can use them to say just about anything you want.

That is a good point and all, but there is a problem. Games always sell the most when they're new, then the sales settle out and lessen over the next few years. GT3 has had way more time in that "settle" period, therefore skewing the sales per year number in favor of GT4. Now if we could, say, compare the 2 games' sales after the same number of years, that would be a much more fair comparison. 👍

 

[Raitziger]

Overall sales worldwide
360 - 40.6 million
PS3 - 35.6 million
Winner = 360

In dollars PS3 has sold more.

 

[Devedander]

I remember hearing about the 6 months per car modelling time frame in 2007. At the time I genuinely though the following:
-that was an exaggeration to empathise the fidelity of the car models
-that in the near future, the 6 months time frame will be drastically reduced as PD acquires better technology or streamlines the process
-that PD has a much bigger team than 40 3D modellers, and whatever the size of the team was, it would be increased significantly to ensure those 1000+ cars target would be met
-that the delays of GT5 development back in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now 2010 have most likely prompted PD to outsource a lot of the 3D modelling work 👍

Why did I think that? Because it was the clever, normal, intelligent thing to assume. Not in a million years did I think Sony, or any other firm in the world, would bankroll a stupid idea to model cars in such detail that they can only do 200 in over 5 years. For example GT4 was already less successful than GT3 and took more time and money to develop, and sold less copies than GT3... Even so, in 4 years development, GT4 came with 4 times more cars and tracks than GT5 will in nearly 6 years! I'm ignoring the Standard cars when counting as these are not new models. So my assumption was this: There is no way Sony, PD or (detached from game development reality and business model while probably unintentionally alienating one of the biggest franchise fan base in the world) KY would do such a stupid thing. Correct?

Now even if this is the case and this idiotic plan of game development was accepted back in 2005, in over 5 years a team of 40 3D modellers could have managed 400+ cars, but GT5 has 200! Why? As some rightly explained it's most likely because the 3D modellers had to develop many other assets. Of course the illustrious GT PSP financial success was in the way, (Yes I am being sarcastic), and also the demo for sale, GT5P, and the numerous 1 off demo versions along the way. But still, at no point someone at Sony or PD raised the alarm and said: "Guys this is not working out! We need to seriously increase or outsource workforce, even if the QC is still done after by PD. Trying to explain to fans and general public that in the last 5+ years we've done 200 cars is bound to make us look like amateurs. It's not like there is much room for turning back, we've had KY running around going on about the incredible 1000+ car models, the weather, night racing and so on. Fans have seen GT5P and would obviously expect even more in GT5."

Something should have been done about this when the above was clearly apparent. At least that's what development, business, PR and downright common sense would have inspired most software development companies and publishers out there. One only has to look at the content that COD games developers produce every 2 years, to see what good management of the above can produce in terms of franchise success and profit returns.

But no, after all these years this bipolar GT5 is what the we, the fans, are supposed to swallow. Well it's not happening, as can be seen not only on GTP but other websites. Why? Most of the fans and potential GT buyers may have a lot more of the grey matter, that Sony, PD and KY would like to believe.

Here is the skinny: The biased PR spinners , blinded fans and the weak of mind will post on this website, and others, how all the above is nonsense and how GT5 is going to still be the best thing ever and will sell like crazy. But the reality is the above and the truth will be very apparent when GT5 goes on sale. It's cost considerably more than GT3 + GT4 to make and took as long as the 2 put together. Yes GT5P may have recuperated some of that cost but nowhere near enough to offset. We'll see if it sells more than GT3 + GT4 in a world in recession, a less PS3 favourable than PS2 console market, and with a lot more driving games of the same vein as GT on the market and new ones released around the same time...

Coulda been one of my own posts except if it were me it would have been even longer winded

One thing to address, Gt3 and GT4:

I think one thing that contributed to this sales dichotomy is likely that many people want "a" awesome race game on their system. When GT3 came out, it was the GT for PS2 and people bought the crap out of it.

When GT4 came along, I think a lot of people already had a GT game on their console, only the truer fans needed more, many regular game buyers probably never even finished GT3 so weren't looking to pay more money for a game that looked basically the same and had more of what they already hadn't finished.

I loved Bioshock but never finished it, when Bioshock 2 came out I didn't buy it because it was more greatness but I already had too much greatness in Bioshock. Same with multiple sequals in my history and some of my friends the same. It's harder to buy more of what you already have than what you don't have any of (for that particular console at least).

So I wouldn't be surprised if many of those 14 million GT5P sales have "fulfilled" their GT need for PS3 now... I lent my copy to a buddy and liked it, but only played about 50% through it and he was pretty much done. When I told him GT5 is coming out soon he asked if I didn't already have it and when I explained the difference and what is in GT5 he was nonplused. Basically to him I already have great looking cars driving around tracks in races that border on too long and too hard to be fun.... why would I pay $60 for more?

So take from that what you will, and it's pretty much entirely specuation and opinion but thought I would put that out there...

 

[Dravonic]

^ I think you mean 4, not 14.