Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Tornado]

I'm aware of the amount of cars PD says are in the game. I'm also aware that with the exception of maybe ten or so newly created ones, all of the cars added for GTPSP are the result of obnoxious padding done simply so the game would have a bigger car number than GT4 did (and that is ignoring the handful of cars that were already like that in GT4).

When you take into account the cars removed from the game that were previously in GT4, it is possible (likely, even) that the game has less cars than GT4 did; and I seriously hope PD doesn't pull the same crap with GT5's roster that they did with GTPSP.

 

[gtracedriver]

Premiums, standard or mix of both?

Not bad at all for psp game

Looking at these I think standard cars will be great.

Also to those who think standard will look worst and like PS2 HD. That will only happen due to pixelation but as I keep saying let us wait for retail version. There is no way they can do direct port PS2, PSP cars into PS3 which is suppose to run those cars in HD res. Because then it will look worst and I think PD, Sony knows more than us that this game is suppose to look good 💡

 

[gtone339]

Haven't you guys tried out GTPSP yet? I have it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

the rest all the same:damage,customization,same tracks,same locations,cockpit view and photomode(not interior view BTW just dashboards)and pretty much the same cars always,and the introduction of drifting points.

Since you're such a fan of making huge generalizations: GT4 had pretty much the same cars always... and considering the Standards in GT5 are just ported over from that... your comment rings even more true for GT5.

Not to mention there's still a good chance GT5 ends up with a dashboard view for only 200 cars. We also don't know if the customization will even hit Forza's level. Heck, games like Tokyo Extreme Racer had a higher level of customization, back on the PS2.

Another one: a lot of the same locations. Though I'll concede GT does have more total, the majority are infact carryovers. How is that a bad thing though?

GT4: 722 cars / 51 location(world class locations and almost all original tracks )(it had photomode and Forza were just coming out for the xbox)
GTpsp: 830 cars/ 45 locations(and it was a handheld with nurburgring on it)

Almost all original tracks? There were a handful more than GT3. GT4's track number increase was mostly down to real world additions (which is preferable to me anyways, but still)

And the car count... . In GT4, I could buy the 350Z, because it was regionalized for the US. In GT PSP, I can buy the 350Z (US), the 350Z (EU), and the Fairlady Z. All three are identical, bar a word on the back. I can buy 3 different Tiburons, also all identical save for name. I can buy the exact same Vauxhall lineup as the Opel one. The Miata might very well have as many variations as the Skyline. This is how PD gets the car numbers it does. Forza's number might be lower, but it's got just as much variety.

GT goes better and better every time,now the feature damage and day night transitions,GT allow to play with cool cars like F1 and the nike 2022,while forza features the same cars,no innovation there,

Damage - In plenty of other games, previous generation (and before that).
Nike 2022 - I actually want to bet money this car won't make a return in GT5.
Innovation - Same cars, you say? GT5 using a ton of ported-over GT4?

also is not just me everyone thinks the same,

Oh?

that is not true because the models will be updated,like all the cars in forza, increasing the numbers of polygons and they will look like forza 3 models,and just check these videos:

McLaren called this only a few hours ago. I see we still do have people who think 650+ models can be upgraded to FM3 levels (or even Prologue levels) in 2-3 months.

I'm aware of the amount of cars PD says are in the game. I'm also aware that with the exception of maybe ten or so newly created ones, all of the cars added for GTPSP are the result of obnoxious padding done simply so the game would have a bigger car number than GT4 did (and that is ignoring the handful of cars that were already like that in GT4).

When you take into account the cars removed from the game that were previously in GT4, it is possible (likely, even) that the game has less cars than GT4 did; and I seriously hope PD doesn't pull the same crap with GT5's roster that they did with GTPSP.

Well, let's see: we got the R8 LMS, Furai, GTbyCitroen, GT-R V-Spec, ZR1, the Lambos, the Ferraris, the Bugatti... am I missing anything else?

We lost the Toyota MTRC, The Nike, Auto Union, Jay Leno, Caterham, all the Astons, the Model T, the ancient Benzes... yeah, I think it's roughly even.

Not bad at all for psp game

They're all from the opening movie. The game doesn't look anything like that.

I keep saying let us wait for retail version.

I agree... but all of my comments are based on what we've seen so far. The Standard video makes it pretty clear we're looking at GT4 assets so far.

 

[Tornado]

And the car count... . In GT4, I could buy the 350Z, because it was regionalized for the US. In GT PSP, I can buy the 350Z (US), the 350Z (EU), and the Fairlady Z. All three are identical, bar a word on the back.

My absolute favorite bit of blatant and shameless padding can be seen over in the Toyota and Nissan dealerships with the Silvias and GS300s. Not only is the whole issue confusing anyways because GT4 had a lot of stupid Americanization inserted that was carried over (labeling the Japanese versions of cars with their American names even though the American versions had different drivetrains), but GTPSP took it beyond the impossible.

For example, the Lexus GS300 '91, Lexus GS 300 '00 and Lexus GS 300 Vertex Edition were all actually the Japanese versions of those cars (as they all had the 2JZ-GTE engine in them), but then PD turned around and included the reskins of them using the correct JDM "Toyota Aristo" nameplate.


Indeed, if I really felt the need to do so, I could almost certainly lop a hundred or so cars off the GTPSP car list with no effort at all; without even touching some of the sillier GT4 carryovers. And, again, I'll have to punch someone if whatever idiot who thought to do that does the same for GT5.

 

[McLaren]

Wow a lot of forza fanboys take over the whole standard premium car issue,still forza is a good game , make no mistake but(and yeah there is always a but):

GT goes better and better every time,now the feature damage and day night transitions,GT allow to play with cool cars like F1 and the nike 2022,while forza features the same cars,no innovation there,also is not just me everyone thinks the same,the fact that it got good reviews is because it was a polish product,something that should be in the begining,when you saying wow that was forza 1 for xbox,you see that they havent almost improved in detail,just polygons and FM3 is more like a DLC for forza 2 if you think it more criticism,now they say,well 200 cars premium models ,the rest is just crap,that is not true because the models will be updated,like all the cars in forza, increasing the numbers of polygons and they will look like forza 3 models,and just check these videos:

Irony is a funny thing.

Not bad at all for psp game

You do realize a lot of that isn't in-game footage, right?

 

[Devedander]

Also to those who think standard will look worst and like PS2 HD. That will only happen due to pixelation

I do not understand what you mean....

 

[Devedander]

PD dug a hole for themselves, they didnt lie to everyone but they were definitely MISLEADING people with the whole standard and premium, all in all I'm dissapointed with this, I will still enjoy the game

I think it safely falls under "lie of omission".

 

[steve30x]

Problem is, the difference in quality is so easy to spot when both types of models are on screen together. Just take a look at that last picture. We know the Ford GT is a premium model, but clearly the Viper is a standard model judging by the jagged edges. That said, the GT PSP's intro certainly goes a while back, well before last October. So the quality of the standard models may have been slightly upgraded since then.

You must have some good eyes to be able to tell the difference in that screenshot when everything is very blurred.

 

[FyreandIce]

Wow....

The lighting reflections do help alot.

But compared a standard car to a premium

 

[pay2021]

the rest all the same:damage,customization,same tracks,same locations,cockpit view and photomode(not interior view BTW just dashboards)and pretty much the same cars always,and the introduction of drifting points.

I dont understand what you point with "no interior just dashboard" in F3 you can roll your "head" to sides, not a fix view.

And for the car list, aware im a GT fanboy, but the best car list today by far is the F3, even the stock without the DLC, and with DLC maybe the best of all time.

GT goes better and better every time,now the feature damage and day night transitions,GT allow to play with cool cars like F1 and the nike 2022,while forza features the same cars,no innovation there,also is not just me everyone thinks the same.

Yes GT is going better, must be because now they have maybe no serious, but a lot of competition.
Again the car list, in no other game you can "drive" for ex. a Morgan Aero, or a Ultimate SCC, Aston Martin Rapide, Audi R15, Furai or simply a Diablo! they have a wider range of vehicles.
And for the F1, its nice to have a real F1 car in GT but i want to race against other different F1 cars, not 15 Ferraris.

 

[Scaff]

I dont understand what you point with "no interior just dashboard" in F3 you can roll your "head" to sides, not a fix view.

And for the car list, aware im a GT fanboy, but the best car list today by far is the F3, even the stock without the DLC, and with DLC maybe the best of all time.



Yes GT is going better, must be because now they have maybe no serious, but a lot of competition.
Again the car list, in no other game you can "drive" for ex. a Morgan Aero, or a Ultimate SCC, Aston Martin Rapide, Audi R15, Furai or simply a Diablo! they have a wider range of vehicles.
And for the F1, its nice to have a real F1 car in GT but i want to race against other different F1 cars, not 15 Ferraris.

Given that the full car list for GT5 has not yet been released I am a little confused as to how certain people are getting about what cars will and will not be included in the game.

I'm even more confused about how this has morphed into a Forza vs GT car list flame war.

Please get this topic back on track now, its a discussion thread for GT Standard vs Premium cars, so please keep it on topic.


Scaff

 

[pay2021]

^ The 80% of the list is the GT4/PSP/GT5P cars, they claim that.

And sorry for off-topic i just get on that "train".

 

[shadynader]

How about option D: just a bunch of screen grabs from the PSP opening movie.

Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?

My point being, if they are indeed standard model assets in better game engine, they look more than good enough to me. Even if they are standard models in a rendered video where the cars have been key framed, they are still good enough for me. Remember, we are looking at the assets here to see if they stand up to HD. I feel they do.

Seriously, how can you not see the relevance?

 

[ItsHim]

I'm struggling with the marketing pitch - again.

When they said "1000 cars" I was hoping for ~ 400 genuinely different models. I absolutely took it as fact, that all would sport cockpits. Over 5 years in development, today's industry standard, them being PD, and so forth.

Now it rather seems we get 200 cars, and a kind of classic car pack with all the rides from GT4 to brighten up the brochure.

I know that numbers seem so terribly important to some, but I would have wished for more honesty. So the rumours and half-hearted announcements about cockpit view totally disappointed me. It's less I get, not more than I expected.

 

[sher_da_putt]

I'm struggling with the marketing pitch - again.

When they said "1000 cars" I was hoping for ~ 400 genuinely different models. I absolutely took it as fact, that all would sport cockpits. Over 5 years in development, today's industry standard, them being PD, and so forth.

Now it rather seems we get 200 cars, and a kind of classic car pack with all the rides from GT4 to brighten up the brochure.

I know that numbers seem so terribly important to some, but I would have wished for more honesty. So the rumours and half-hearted announcements about cockpit view totally disappointed me. It's less I get, not more than I expected.

As long as the physics are perfect, to me it its still 1000 cars, and sometimes I think the standards look just the same as premiums just with darker windows.

 

[thesuperfunk]

I assume we're going to be able to race Premium cars against Standard models?

Seems a bit daft though that they would model something like the old Celica and Impreza rally cars as Premiums but not touch classics such as the old Peugot 205 and Lancia Stratos?

 

[gtracedriver]

Since you're such a fan of making huge generalizations: GT4 had pretty much the same cars always... and considering the Standards in GT5 are just ported over from that... your comment rings even more true for GT5.

Not to mention there's still a good chance GT5 ends up with a dashboard view for only 200 cars. We also don't know if the customization will even hit Forza's level. Heck, games like Tokyo Extreme Racer had a higher level of customization, back on the PS2.

Another one: a lot of the same locations. Though I'll concede GT does have more total, the majority are infact carryovers. How is that a bad thing though?



Almost all original tracks? There were a handful more than GT3. GT4's track number increase was mostly down to real world additions (which is preferable to me anyways, but still)

And the car count... . In GT4, I could buy the 350Z, because it was regionalized for the US. In GT PSP, I can buy the 350Z (US), the 350Z (EU), and the Fairlady Z. All three are identical, bar a word on the back. I can buy 3 different Tiburons, also all identical save for name. I can buy the exact same Vauxhall lineup as the Opel one. The Miata might very well have as many variations as the Skyline. This is how PD gets the car numbers it does. Forza's number might be lower, but it's got just as much variety.



Damage - In plenty of other games, previous generation (and before that).
Nike 2022 - I actually want to bet money this car won't make a return in GT5.
Innovation - Same cars, you say? GT5 using a ton of ported-over GT4?



Oh?



McLaren called this only a few hours ago. I see we still do have people who think 650+ models can be upgraded to FM3 levels (or even Prologue levels) in 2-3 months.





Well, let's see: we got the R8 LMS, Furai, GTbyCitroen, GT-R V-Spec, ZR1, the Lambos, the Ferraris, the Bugatti... am I missing anything else?

We lost the Toyota MTRC, The Nike, Auto Union, Jay Leno, Caterham, all the Astons, the Model T, the ancient Benzes... yeah, I think it's roughly even.



They're all from the opening movie. The game doesn't look anything like that.



I agree... but all of my comments are based on what we've seen so far. The Standard video makes it pretty clear we're looking at GT4 assets so far.

Forza is really bad in gfx and their cars do not look any better in gameplay. Standard models they have not shown to public so far apart from that 30sec video. More time they spend on standard cars, more they can improve. They also said they have to polish the game even though the E3 build was the latest.
This is some improvement they made from GT5P and I think they will keep doing such thing till the game is finished.
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5s-improved-textures-flying-debris/

I think it is called, game gone gold when it is complete and only polishing is left.

I do not understand what you mean....

I mean PSP, PS2 run at very low resolution. To port those cars into PS3 as GT5 runs twice the resolution might lead to pixelation, where the pixel will be messed up because those were meant for lower resolution not HD. Upscaling trick is used but doesn't really help when the difference is so big. More number pixels by increasing the resolution, the sharper the game will look. So I think, they it will be really nice even though the polygons are much less than Premiums

 

[G.T.Ace]

I seriously doubt Premium cars can drive against Standards.

I mean PSP, PS2 run at very low resolution. To port those cars into PS3 as GT5 runs twice the resolution might lead to pixelation, where the pixel will be messed up because those were meant for lower resolution not HD. Upscaling trick is used but doesn't really help when the difference is so big. More number pixels by increasing the resolution, the sharper the game will look. So I think they it will be really nice even though the polygons are much less than Premiums.

GT4 runs in 1080i in the NTSC version and the Photomode models are build for high resolutions (including the textures).

EDIT: And the 3D model itself isn't really affected by the screen resolution, you will see the same edges in 480p or 1080p.

 

[Dravonic]

Wow....

Shouldn't we compare the same cars?

Like this?

 

[RedSuinit]

I seriously doubt Premium cars can drive against Standards.


GT4 runs in 1080i in the NTSC version and the Photomode models are build for high resolutions (including the textures).

EDIT: And the 3D model itself isn't really affected by the screen resolution, you will see the same edges in 480p or 1080p.

I am confused by your post. Did you mean to say that "I seriously doubt Premium cars can't drive against Standards,"? Because with the way it is written not, is sounds like you are saying they won't be able to race each other, but then the rest of your post is giving reasons why it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[gtracedriver]

I seriously doubt Premium cars can drive against Standards.


GT4 runs in 1080i in the NTSC version and the Photomode models are build for high resolutions (including the textures).

EDIT: And the 3D model itself isn't really affected by the screen resolution, you will see the same edges in 480p or 1080p.

It support those resolution but it is not native resolution. There is a big difference. It is just upscaling it. If they don't touch 3d models ? it will be same but they can improve textures. It will look better at high res stretching it will make it worst

 

[G.T.Ace]

Why does the rest of my post give reasons for that?
Of course there aren't technical problems behind this, but artistic and design ones.
Standard cars are rendered by the same engine as the Premiums, but it would be completely ridiculous to drive with a low-poly C5 against a high-poly C6 for example, the difference in the 3D models is huge.

EDIT: Dude, 3D models don't have "resolutions" (like 1920x1080), textures have and the video output itself.
The 3D models will be rendered in 1080p, that's all and the low texture resolutions are the reason why they look so "muddy" on the Standard cars.

 

[JDMKING13]

I seriously doubt Premium cars can drive against Standards.

@ 1:45

FT-86 Premium VS AE86 Standard on Fuji.

 

[G.T.Ace]

You don't know if the AE-86 will be Premium or not, they could've just used it as a placeholder there, you can't even really see if it's a Standard car in that video.

 

[JDMKING13]

You don't know if the AE-86 will be Premium or not, they could've just used it as a placeholder there, you can't even really see if it's a Standard car in that video.

Windows look totally blacked out thats the reason i said it.

 

[Dravonic]

Windows look totally blacked out thats the reason i said it.

Black windows are a necessary condition for a car to be standard, but not enough to make a car standard by itself.

 

[Antti-san]

Food for thought, that video was from before we were shown any standard cars.

 

[JDMKING13]

Funnily enough, the "GT5 2010 standard cars" appear to be even worse.

Shouldn't we compare the same cars?

Like this?

You said "Funnily enough, the "GT5 2010 standard cars" appear to be even worse. So i put a picture of the standard car vs forza pic. Then you come back and tell me that I should compare it to a GT4 for PS2 model I thought your were talking about standard cars from GT5 not GT4 cars from PS2

Black windows are a necessary condition for a car to be standard, but not enough to make a car standard by itself.

No doubt 👍

 

[gtracedriver]

Why does the rest of my post give reasons for that?
Of course there aren't technical problems behind this, but artistic and design ones.
Standard cars are rendered by the same engine as the Premiums, but it would be completely ridiculous to drive with a low-poly C5 against a high-poly C6 for example, the difference in the 3D models is huge.

EDIT: Dude, 3D models don't have "resolutions" (like 1920x1080), textures have and the video output itself.
The 3D models will be rendered in 1080p, that's all and the low texture resolutions are the reason why they look so "muddy" on the Standard cars.

There is something know as texture resolution which happens is some PC games and even GOW collection which is basically a PS2 port clearly looks much sharper. Irrespective of 3D models they will be huge bump, they can also use tiling and various other things that expert in PD should be knowing. So I find these PS2,PSP comparison really silly