Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[steve30x]

Which is exactly why people are complaining, because other than a shiny layer of improved reflections, they are GT4 cars.

You must be looking at different cars and comparisons , because from the comparisons I have seen so far I see there more than just a shiny layer added to the cars. The comparisons I have seen show more detail to the cars.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Sounds more like an issue with your attention span or multitasking capabilities if you can't appreciate the graphics while racing. I for one can do both quite easily at the very same time.

No just a very old gamer who knows what is important and what isn't.

The problem with some on this forum is they are obsessed with trivialities and yet ignore features that are more important. For example a thread discussing the shade and shape of leaves on the trees will probably recieve more replies than a thread discussing online aspects of the game. This I believe stems from a lack of gaming experience from some members who have continued to play GT4 whilst waiting for GT5. However I have experienced the joys of Xbox live and how important online features are in a racing game i.e FM2, PGR3. Sorry but im afraid some gamers on this forum are still living in the dark ages!!

Let me say this to you. When I upgraded my TV from a bog standard widescreen 28" to a 40" HDTV the first few weeks I was amazed at the difference. However I hardly notice this anymore and I bet everyone else is the same. Why is this then? answer because your eyes adjust and its the same with graphics on a video game!

 

[JDMKING13]

So everyone who cares about a good presentation of their racing game, about a coherent experience, has little interest in racing?

Seeing two cars crash and one of them getting ripped apart while the other one gets a little dented and scratched up isn't going to further my immersion in the game. It's certainly not going to make it feel any more like a race.

I feel some would accept black bricks as cars as long as they are featured in a GT game...


No problem 👍

Just to let you know many games have different levels of damage during game play not just GT only race cars will get ripped up piece to piece many manufacture will not let their cars get destroyed.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Sounds like the wrong game for you Biggun.
Graphics are PD priority.
For the most part atleast.

Actually from what I have read PD have focussed alot of attention on the online aspect of GT5.

What im looking forward to the most on GT5 is racing against my friends online whilst using my G25 and cockpit. Also I love hotlapping and competiting for the top of the leaderboards and whilst doing this I shall be concentrating on my racing line, braking points. I won't have time to look at how pretty the graphics are.

 

[steve30x]

Actually from what I have read PD have focussed alot of attention on the online aspect of GT5.

No they hired a team just for the online aspect who dont do anything else to the game other than work on the online aspect of the game only.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I don't think the damage is too much of a problem, when two cars smash into each other, as long as the mechanical damage is the same it won't effect the race. Sure it might take away a little from the experience, but it's not as if the other car will drive away perfectly ok. It all depends on what cars PD have chosen to make premium. When I first heard the figure of around 200 cars I thought that it would be all of the race cars. That's obviously not right now so I just hope they haven't made some crappy cars premium.

I can think of an easy example right now: A Premium car will leave debris littered along the track. A Standard won't. If a bumper can get dislodged and end up stuck somewhere on the Premium, advantage: Standard.

I'd bring up the aerodynamic affects of having dislodged and/or missing panels on Premiums, but seeing as how PD can't model the different aero effects of the Veyron's multi-setting spoiler, I don't expect them to be doing a lot with the frankly far more complicated damage model.

You must be looking at different cars and comparisons , because from the comparisons I have seen so far I see there more than just a shiny layer added to the cars. The comparisons I have seen show more detail to the cars.

Uh, what? Are there some new ones I haven't seen yet? Because every one so far (the C5R is the most-used example) makes it plainly obvious they're carryover assets. Where are the ones showing more detail?

 

[steve30x]

IUh, what? Are there some new ones I haven't seen yet? Because every one so far (the C5R is the most-used example) makes it plainly obvious they're carryover assets. Where are the ones showing more detail?

I can clearly see the C5R is more detailed than the GT4 version. Its not a huge difference but its a big enough difference for me. Im not going to argue over it though.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That's fine. If that's the case, I'll have whatever it is you're having!

 

[steve30x]

That's fine. If that's the case, I'll have whatever it is you're having!

No need in being like that.

 

[JDMKING13]

I can clearly see the C5R is more detailed than the GT4 version. Its not a huge difference but its a big enough difference for me. Im not going to argue over it though.

Your right man don't get caught up in the negativity the car looks way better than the GT4 version that is a fact. 👍

 

[Marry_Me_GT]

Apparently there are two separate physics just like it is in GT5 Prologue- Standard and Professional. But seriously if you step out of your demented world you'll probably find that when the game is released, the visual difference is quite negligible. That is if you don't try to go over it with an extra fine-toothed comb.

The recently released 1080p video by PD of the Standard cars, while still heavily compressed (perhaps even more so than the 720p video), gives a better quality capture. You can clearly see that in some cars- example the Camaro and the red Alfa Romeo and the string of cars on the dirt road at the end of the video-the drivers are clearly visible. You can even make out the "Arai" on the helmet in the Alfa. While the rest of the images are just for show:

Man, they are some sexy screenshots!

 

[eSZee]

Man, they are some sexy screenshots!

They are, but there's no point in quoting all of them and making people scroll and scroll and scroll to get to the next post. Next time just quote the message and not the pictures.

 

[steve30x]

I agree. Please dont quote all the screenshots next time

 

[Devedander]

I can clearly see the C5R is more detailed than the GT4 version. Its not a huge difference but its a big enough difference for me. Im not going to argue over it though.

Are you talking about the actual base model of the car, or are you just talking about the results of being at a higher resolution and a better lighting engine?

The former I don't think you are correct on, the latter is certainly correct.

I think a lot of people are confused here... no one is saying the standard cars look EXACTLY like the GT4 cars ie low resolution chunky images... I think a lot of people may not really understand how the graphics are rendered and thus aren't able to see certain aspects like the car model vs the finished rendered image.

 

[VXR]

Resolution is a final output. I don't think car models are as dependent on resolution as they are polys. That is why GT4 can output at 1280x720 in photo mode and HD-ready consoles can be played on SD televisions.

Essentially, those cars look like a 1080p version of PS2 technology. That's probably not so great when you have cars from the zenith of this generation alongside them and that's why I feel that as a technical experience, the game would be without equal were it to have just the premium cars.

 

[JDMKING13]

Are you talking about the actual base model of the car, or are you just talking about the results of being at a higher resolution and a better lighting engine?

The former I don't think you are correct on, the latter is certainly correct.

I think a lot of people are confused here... no one is saying the standard cars look EXACTLY like the GT4 cars ie low resolution chunky images... I think a lot of people may not really understand how the graphics are rendered and thus aren't able to see certain aspects like the car model vs the finished rendered image.

I just care about if the car looks good and even though the standard dont look anywhere near the premiums as any other racing game, the standard cars look good IMO. You guys can debate about the graphics and rendering i know nothing about that.

 

[mykem]

Are you talking about the actual base model of the car, or are you just talking about the results of being at a higher resolution and a better lighting engine?

The former I don't think you are correct on, the latter is certainly correct.

I think a lot of people are confused here... no one is saying the standard cars look EXACTLY like the GT4 cars ie low resolution chunky images... I think a lot of people may not really understand how the graphics are rendered and thus aren't able to see certain aspects like the car model vs the finished rendered image.

I'm still puzzled at what's indicating that other than the stated difference in damage levels, the detail of the interiors and that standard cars won't have interior camera views, that there will be visual differences between Standard and Premium models.

Looking at these two images, one captured from the Standard car video and the other from the Effect video and while they're obviously different cars, I see that both have essentially the same rendering quality. They seem to have the same amount of polygons and use the same shader technology. And the most important thing, they seem to be from the same game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Round and 'round, every few days someone comes in with the seeming intention of purposely refusing to see a difference. We can almost set our watches to it.

If you can't tell the difference between modelled body panels and painted-on panel gaps, then there's no point trying to explain.

 

[Devedander]

Differen cas in different environments adds confusion and the angles and distances help mask the differences. Also the standards you chose have mostly flat simple body lines and the angle masks a lot.

That said, there are noteable differences the closer you get the more obvious.

Look at the official GT website for a snapshot of standards one the one of premiums.

Obvious differences in premiums vs standards is that premiums lack visible vertex bumps on smooth/rounded sections from manything but super super close up views and body panels are actually seperate instead of drawn own.

All I can say is I think you have done some cursory research and are now trying to debate on par with those who have dug very deeply into the subject.

Kind of like me walking into a car shop and trying to argue that two engines are basically the same because I can't recognize the bored out head and rebuilt bottom end.

 

[Quintin03]

Round and 'round, every few days someone comes in with the seeming intention of purposely refusing to see a difference. We can almost set our watches to it.

If you can't tell the difference between modelled body panels and painted-on panel gaps, then there's no point trying to explain.

If you can there's no point either. It's there but you can't prove it.

 

[Devedander]

If you can there's no point either. It's there but you can't prove it.

That's like saying you can't prove the sky is blue... you can, but if people just won't see the proof when shown what can you do?

 

[kingcars]

No, the argument has gone from, "We didn't know they were going to be from GT4 until this standard video was released," to "Well it looks like PD mentioned something about that back in August of '09, nearly a year ago now,"

You really like taking things OUT of context, don't you?

I guess you missed the 20 or so pages of JDM and the pro-standard posse trying to claim that standard models aren't GT4 ports...

You guys REALLY like "forgetting" things conveniently, don't you?

 

[Akira AC]

That's like saying you can't prove the sky is blue... you can, but if people just won't see the proof when shown what can you do?

Agree 👍 ,and now that you brought the day topic, I think that the illumination on standards also means that they will look good on the "mask" in different daytime settings(since the source of light will eventually disapear and be replace by another source of lighting of different tone,moon light and racetrack lights)but the problem that will carry out is the high beams,it seems like the whole illumination for premium has been done correctly,but in the case of the standards this hasn't been the case,Its sort of adapted and in cases of night racing this could be a problem because the intensity of the light from standard will not be adjustable and it can carry out some issues in the perspective point of view,also when you driving in real life you get the reflective signals(like the ones on the curves on toscany)and their view from a standard car will be different from the one seen from a premium car.

Note that I'm pointing out this because it probably will be one of the reasons why there is importance to this features on the premiums cars.

 

[Luminis]

No just a very old gamer who knows what is important and what isn't.

You know what's important to you, and that's about it.

The problem with some on this forum is they are obsessed with trivialities and yet ignore features that are more important. For example a thread discussing the shade and shape of leaves on the trees will probably recieve more replies than a thread discussing online aspects of the game. This I believe stems from a lack of gaming experience from some members who have continued to play GT4 whilst waiting for GT5. However I have experienced the joys of Xbox live and how important online features are in a racing game i.e FM2, PGR3. Sorry but im afraid some gamers on this forum are still living in the dark ages!!

Take a peek at the thread title. Yup, that's a reason why people are going on about standard cars and premium cars in here. Stuff like how the online mode turns out isn't going to have any impact on the topic at hand, is it?

Let me say this to you. When I upgraded my TV from a bog standard widescreen 28" to a 40" HDTV the first few weeks I was amazed at the difference. However I hardly notice this anymore and I bet everyone else is the same. Why is this then? answer because your eyes adjust and its the same with graphics on a video game!

Ok. Fair point. Now, imagine switching back to your old TV. And then switch back again to the new one. Keep swtching them every few hours to constantly remind you of the difference. That's what's going to happen with standard cars. Every time you get used to it, one of the way better looking cars will drive along to remind you of the difference. That's exactly why a coherent level of graphical quality is important to me; as well as a coherent list of features. GT5 is, from what we know so far, not going to deliver either.

Just to let you know many games have different levels of damage during game play not just GT only race cars will get ripped up piece to piece many manufacture will not let their cars get destroyed.

The premium cars will still feature modelled damage instead of textured damage and lose bodyparts. Like the Evo X in the E³ trailer. Big enough difference there.

Also, which games do exactly feature different damage models on cars that participate in the same race?

I'm still puzzled at what's indicating that other than the stated difference in damage levels, the detail of the interiors and that standard cars won't have interior camera views, that there will be visual differences between Standard and Premium models.

Looking at these two images, one captured from the Standard car video and the other from the Effect video and while they're obviously different cars, I see that both have essentially the same rendering quality. They seem to have the same amount of polygons and use the same shader technology. And the most important thing, they seem to be from the same game.

You just have to look at the way the headlights are modelled for the standards and premiums respectively to notice a difference.

also, just look at the hood. it's basically painted on on the Camaro, while stuff like that is modelled with the premium cars (and can be lost due to receiving damage).

 

[JDMKING13]

Also, which games do exactly feature different damage models on cars that participate in the same race?



.

In Forza 3 some cars pieces will not come off depending on a certain car. Its not a big deal I care about mechanical damage lot more. 👍

 

[Goshin2568]

So wait, all the new cars will be premium right?
Because now that I think of it, if a car is included, and it's never been in a GT game before, then they have to model it from scratch. If they model it from scratch, the might as well model it premium, right?

And on another note, honestly, I don't care if the standard cars look incredible, I doubt I will be using the chase cam, anyways. I will just be pissed if there is no interior view, because that's the camera I prefer.

 

[Akira AC]

You know what's important to you, and that's about it.

Ok. Fair point. Now, imagine switching back to your old TV. And then switch back again to the new one. Keep swtching them every few hours to constantly remind you of the difference. That's what's going to happen with standard cars. Every time you get used to it, one of the way better looking cars will drive along to remind you of the difference. That's exactly why a coherent level of graphical quality is important to me; as well as a coherent list of features. GT5 is, from what we know so far, not going to deliver either.

Disagree 👎 ,because when you are driving you are not looking to the car,you are looking to the road,if is looks what you want you can get FM3,no one will criticize that,still the only "special" feature of FM games is the livery editor,if is that what you want you can have it,if you want more features what else do you want? since new system are being develop for the game(i.e. day night transition) and 24 hrs,and rally and nascar,unofficial F1,also a GT mode(which is different from doing a list of events),driving missions and who knows what else will they introduce,is not fair to say that the amount of features on GT5 is not coherent,because its coherent,the features are based on real motoracing,if that is not what you want you probably want a game more like NFS or test drive,racing game but no sim racing and therefore your basis for arguing here will be non existence in the context of the whole argument.

 

[kingcars]

Disagree 👎 ,because when you are driving you are not looking to the car,you are looking to the road

Oh ok, cool...so they can just model some bricks instead of cars and we'll never notice 👍

And lets forget about watching replays, along with photomode.

 

[Luminis]

Disagree 👎 ,because when you are driving you are not looking to the car,you are looking to the road,

That's true for the bumper cam only. Withe every other camera angle, you will see what your car looks like to a certain extend.

if is looks what you want you can get FM3,no one will criticize that,still the only "special" feature of FM games is the livery editor,if is that what you want you can have it,if you want more features what else do you want? since new system are being develop for the game(i.e. day night transition) and 24 hrs,and rally and nascar,unofficial F1,also a GT mode(which is different from doing a list of events),driving missions and who knows what else will they introduce,is not fair to say that the amount of features on GT5 is not coherent,because its coherent,the features are based on real motoracing,if that is not what you want you probably want a game more like NFS or test drive,racing game but no sim racing and therefore your basis for arguing here will be non existence in the context of the whole argument.

What I was talking about when I mentioned the incoherent list of features, are the features that come with the cars.

Damage model, headlights, interior view, possibly even customisation, if it's in (due to premium cars beeing able to swap out body panels, while standard cars are not), replays and photo mode.

The features on standard cars and premium cars are not on the same level, thus, incoherent.

This thread is about standard and prremium cars after all, not about day/night cycle, F1, WRC, NASCAR, karting and whatnot. So, basically, I'm going to ignore your recommendation of NFS and TDU as you missed my point completely.

 

[JDMKING13]

Disagree 👎 ,because when you are driving you are not looking to the car,you are looking to the road,if is looks what you want you can get FM3,no one will criticize that,still the only "special" feature of FM games is the livery editor,if is that what you want you can have it,if you want more features what else do you want? since new system are being develop for the game(i.e. day night transition) and 24 hrs,and rally and nascar,unofficial F1,also a GT mode(which is different from doing a list of events),driving missions and who knows what else will they introduce,is not fair to say that the amount of features on GT5 is not coherent,because its coherent,the features are based on real motoracing,if that is not what you want you probably want a game more like NFS or test drive,racing game but no sim racing and therefore your basis for arguing here will be non existence in the context of the whole argument.

👍 Honestly man i would not argue with these folks they will never get over the standard cars