Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[RedSuinit]

I guess you missed the 20 or so pages of JDM and the pro-standard posse trying to claim that standard models aren't GT4 ports...

You guys REALLY like "forgetting" things conveniently, don't you?

It's all about context, CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!! For the love of Mary. You can't take a snip-it of one post made by JDM, (which dealt with someone complaining about the fact that PD never revealed even the possibility that the models could be from GT4, until this video containing standard cars) and then attach it to something he had said previously. That's TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, just like I said.

 

[gtone339]

I see a driver inside the cockpit. 👍

 

[Luminis]

I see a driver inside the cockpit. 👍

Just as you could in GT4. It just seems like PD used the same driver model for premium and standard cars, which only makes sense.

 

[Akira AC]

That's true for the bumper cam only. Withe every other camera angle, you will see what your car looks like to a certain extend.


What I was talking about when I mentioned the incoherent list of features, are the features that come with the cars.

Damage model, headlights, interior view, possibly even customisation, if it's in (due to premium cars beeing able to swap out body panels, while standard cars are not), replays and photo mode.

The features on standard cars and premium cars are not on the same level, thus, incoherent.

Agree with what you said there, but I disagree with this part:

F1, WRC, NASCAR, karting

Those are playable cars as well so excluding them from the the standard/premium thread is not fair,specially when we see the F12007 not taking damage while a possible Red bull F1 car will,my point here is also to show that we are getting more cars classes than the average racing game,sure in some cases look at the car is important(i.e. cockpits and photomode ) but the main point of a racing game is the drive,as long standard and premium behave in the same way in the new engine is enough to a lot of people.

Adding to that the day night cycles are also important to discuss because not how you look at other cars,but how they will look on night racing,they have the same textures but in some cases we will inevitable find some cases where the standard have advantages or disadvantages,in example on Le Mans with the pescarolos cars,while they don't have high beams or premium reflection we found that they will have a different reflexion and they will look different while racing which can be an inconvenient.

 

[gtone339]

Just as you could in GT4. It just seems like PD used the same driver model for premium and standard cars, which only makes sense.

Drivers inside a cockpit in GT4 were mainly a stick figure. Just 2D, blacked out version.

 

[Devedander]

No, the argument has gone from, "We didn't know they were going to be from GT4 until this standard video was released," to "Well it looks like PD mentioned something about that back in August of '09, nearly a year ago now,"

You really like taking things OUT of context, don't you?

Except in context this part

"Well it looks like PD mentioned something about that back in August of '09, nearly a year ago now,"

Was specifically being used to claim that we had indeed been told about standards/premiums a year ago and so it was our own fault for not seeing this coming.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481&page=93#post3930455

 

[Luminis]

Those are playable cars as well so excluding them from the the standard/premium thread is not fair,specially when we see the F12007 not taking damage while a possible Red bull F1 car will,my point here is also to show that we are getting more cars classes than the average racing game,sure in some cases look at the car is important(i.e. cockpits and photomode ) but the main point of a racing game is the drive,as long standard and premium behave in the same way in the new engine is enough to a lot of people.

Thee reason why I disregarded all of the racing series for the sake of this argument is because they are just that, racing series. It has nothing to do with the features that come with the standard cars or premium cars respectively. It doesn't matter whether you're looking at a standard WRC car or a standard road car, both will have the same features regarding damage, headlights and so on and so forth.

Adding to that the day night cycles are also important to discuss because not how you look at other cars,but how they will look on night racing,they have the same textures but in some cases we will inevitable find some cases where the standard have advantages or disadvantages,in example on Le Mans with the pescarolos cars,while they don't have high beams or premium reflection we found that they will have a different reflexion and they will look different while racing which can be an inconvenient.

While nightracing and the issues that come with it are somewhat worth to be discussed, the issue doesn't stem from the day/night cycle, but from the features that come with the standard/premium car, in your example, the standard cars not having adjustable headlights.

That's my point: If both standard and premium cars came with coherent features, both would have the same high/low beams available, so there wouldn't be that possible advantage/disadvantage with nightracing. The cars are just not on a coherent level.

Drivers inside a cockpit in GT4 were mainly a stick figure. Just 2D, blacked out version.

That's why I mentioned that PD put the same driver model in both standard and premium cars... They changed the driver model compared to GT4.

 

[kingcars]

It's all about context, CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!! For the love of Mary. You can't take a snip-it of one post made by JDM, (which dealt with someone complaining about the fact that PD never revealed even the possibility that the models could be from GT4, until this video containing standard cars) and then attach it to something he had said previously. That's TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT, just like I said.

Um no...near the beginning of this thread, we had MANY people trying to say that standard cars have been scratch made as opposed to GT4 ports. Hence this web article...

http://www.playstationuniversity.com/gt5s-standard-cars-just-upscaled-gt4-models-4028/

Once they were proven wrong, their argument has flip flopped more than a loose body panel at 140mph.

 

[Dan_]

Well, PD established a whole new level with Prologue, then they promised us 1000 cars, so we were expecting 1000 Prologue level cars. The reason behind all the complaining in this subject is that PD just omitted this little detail.

They indeed are ported models, just look at the rear window of the Giulia Sprint, ignoring the differences is just impossible, you can't fight with pictures. I always tried to point that they look decent, and of course nowhere near GT5 models, but people here are so busy bashing each other that emitting an opinion on this subject is just impossible. Get over it, they'll be in the game and aren't good as GT5 models, discussing modelling quality is just a big waste of time. 👎

I would love to know more from Kaz, about their usage on the game, mixed grids with scratches only damage? Seems likely.

 

[Devedander]

Um no...near the beginning of this thread, we had MANY people trying to say that standard cars have been scratch made as opposed to GT4 ports. Hence this web article...

http://www.playstationuniversity.com/gt5s-standard-cars-just-upscaled-gt4-models-4028/

Once they were proven wrong, their argument has flip flopped more than a loose body panel at 140mph.

I beleve you are referring to posts like this?
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3906946#post3906946

Well, PD established a whole new level with Prologue, then they promised us 1000 cars, so we were expecting 1000 Prologue level cars. The reason behind all the complaining in this subject is that PD just omitted this little detI thiail.

I assume you were being sarcastic in calling that a "little detail"

They indeed are ported models, just look at the rear window of the Giulia Sprint, ignoring the differences is just impossible, you can't fight with pictures. I always tried to point that they look decent, and of course nowhere near GT5 models, but people here are so busy bashing each other that emitting an opinion on this subject is just impossible. Get over it, they'll be in the game and aren't good as GT5 models, discussing modelling quality is just a big waste of time. 👎

I think this is a big part of the contention here:

"Not that bad looking" and "look fine to me" kind of comments are very vague and subjective so you can't really argue them becuase they don't mean anything in particular.

But an important part to remmeber is that they are not mutually exclusive to the cars being imported GT4 assets.

The cars are clearly imported GT4 assets and it's quite arguable they aren't eye bleedingly bad.

So the argument that they aren't that bad looking is actually not even a rebuttle to the argument that they are imported GT4 assets. It would be like saying "the 2010 model of that car uses basically the same engine as the 2009 with slightly differnet shaped cams" and someone rebutting "I dunno... it drives pretty well and feels reasonably snappy to me".

The two are not rebutting or refuting each other.

 

[JDMKING13]

What the problem of them being ported from GT4? I don't see the problem.

 

[Luminis]

What the problem of them being ported from GT4? I don't see the problem.

Aside from not supporting the same features as the new models?

 

[Devedander]

What the problem of them being ported from GT4? I don't see the problem.

Why don't we take this one step at a time and at least all get on the same page that they are indeed ported GT4 models and go from there... otherwise it gets all twisted and tangential too much to make any sense.

 

[JDMKING13]

Aside from not supporting the same features as the new models?

Beside the lights and the parts falling off what features is that?

 

[kingcars]

You guys can debate about the graphics and rendering i know nothing about that.

Don't worry, we knew that from the beginning 👍

Beside the lights and the parts falling off what features is that?

Cockpit view. Clear windows.

 

[JDMKING13]

Don't worry, we knew that from the beginning 👍

good one kingcar your are a funny boy

 

[Goshin2568]

Um no...near the beginning of this thread, we had MANY people trying to say that standard cars have been scratch made as opposed to GT4 ports. Hence this web article...

http://www.playstationuniversity.com/gt5s-standard-cars-just-upscaled-gt4-models-4028/

Once they were proven wrong, their argument has flip flopped more than a loose body panel at 140mph.

You can't take the community as a whole. If 4-5 people are saying things like
"standard cars have been scratch made as opposed to GT4 ports" and then a month later 4-5 different people have a completely different argument, that dosen't partain to the majority of people on this thread, as a whole. All you are saying is that in the beginning of this thread, some people had an argument, and now, other people have another argument.

Now, if you can show 4+ people whose arguments specifically changed, then I will have been proven wrong, but I don't think you will.

 

[Luminis]

Beside the lights and the parts falling off what features is that?

Cockpit view. Clear windows.

I'd imagine active aero would be an issue as well. And, if it can be done with the premiums, customising parts of the car's body as well.

Wait, let me guess. Those are not important anyways, right?

 

[kingcars]

You can't take the community as a whole. If 4-5 people are saying things like
"standard cars have been scratch made as opposed to GT4 ports" and then a month later 4-5 different people have a completely different argument, that dosen't partain to the majority of people on this thread, as a whole. All you are saying is that in the beginning of this thread, some people had an argument, and now, other people have another argument.

Now, if you can show 4+ people whose arguments specifically changed, then I will have been proven wrong, but I don't think you will.

4+ people , yeah brb in 3 hours while I go sift through every page to deliver on this unreasonable request. But just for the heck of it, here is 1 example:

...i don't get this, you are acting like they are giving us the same exact cars from GT4

So they're not the exact cars from GT4 in this post...then fast forward a bit and we get...

They did say Standard would consist of cars from GT4 and premium would be created from scratch.

August 18, GamesCom, held in Cologne, Germany: Gran Turismo 5 has been announced! Here is the latest information on the game design.

■ models included
1,000 vehicles
170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5

...that we knew all along that they were GT4 ports...

 

[Goshin2568]

And, if it can be done with the premiums, customising parts of the car's body as well.

Customizing if it's in will be a great feature, just will be weird to only customize premiums.

So they're not the exact cars from GT4 in this post...then fast forward a bit and we get...



...that we knew all along that they were GT4 ports...

I knew about him, but that's just one. What I'm saying is that you can't say we're all like that if you can only find one example.

 

[kingcars]

I knew about him, but that's just one. What I'm saying is that you can't say we're all like that if you can only find one example.

If I recall, I said "many" not "all." Unfortunately I don't have 5 hours to track down names and posts in a thread thats almost 100 pages long.

 

[Goshin2568]

Ok, whatever. But one is far cry from 'many'.

 

[Devedander]

Ok, whatever. But one is far cry from 'many'.

If you read his post, he claims many people said the cars were not GT4 ports, I posted a link to one, he posted a link to another. There were a few others at least.

Then he claims the argument has flipflopped and it has.

His post was accurate.

 

[Goshin2568]

From a certain point of view. It could be they just found new info.

For example, say from the start someone said "The standard cars are built from scratch." Then later, they are proved wrong. Then they go back and look at some old stuff, and realized that info was there the whole time, then they say to themselves, "Oh, that was dumb, we knew about this all along." Then they post about it. That's not riding the bandwagon, it could be they genuinly realized they were idiots.

 

[Devedander]

From a certain point of view. It could be they just found new info.

For example, say from the start someone said "The standard cars are built from scratch." Then later, they are proved wrong. Then they go back and look at some old stuff, and realized that info was there the whole time, then they say to themselves, "Oh, that was dumb, we knew about this all along." Then they post about it. That's not riding the bandwagon, it could be they genuinly realized they were idiots.

Is that a flip I hear flopping?

 

[JDMKING13]

4+ people , yeah brb in 3 hours while I go sift through every page to deliver on this unreasonable request. But just for the heck of it, here is 1 example:



So they're not the exact cars from GT4 in this post...then fast forward a bit and we get...



...that we knew all along that they were GT4 ports...

King you are so funny boy Say what you want man those standard cars are not the same as GT4 I dont care if they ported them over to GT5. They look way better, have better physics, they have visual damage and mechanical damage. That is not the same as GT4. If you want a trophy for them actually being ported ill give you one.

 

[Goshin2568]

So wait. Now you are going back to your original argument?!?
I was arguing your side and now you are just making yourself look like an idiot.

 

[kingcars]

King you are so funny boy Say what you want man those standard cars are not the same as GT4 I dont care if they ported them over to GT5. They look way better, have better physics, they have visual damage and mechanical damage. That is not the same as GT4. If you want a trophy for them actually being ported ill give you one.

Sweet, a trophy!

They are the same cars in a different (newer) game. The physics, "looking better," and damage are results of the game they're in, not that they're actually different. You said yourself that you don't understand what goes on behind the scenes graphically, so why are you still trying to argue the point? My argument has been based around the actual core models, not any of the sugar coating that goes on top of them. Low poly models will pop out like a sore thumb to any keen-eyed gamer who knows whats goin on, no matter the window dressing.

So wait. Now you are going back to your original argument?!?
I was arguing your side and now you are just making yourself look like an idiot.

! Those of us who have followed this thread for a while have gotten used to him doing that, it's all good .

 

[JDMKING13]

Sweet, a trophy!

They are the same cars in a different (newer) game. The physics, "looking better," and damage are results of the game they're in, not that they're actually different.



! Those of us who have followed this thread for a while have gotten used to him doing that, it's all good .

Isn't that the case for every game. Gt is the only game i know that took their Car modeling to another level. (premium)

 

[Luminis]

King you are so funny boy Say what you want man those standard cars are not the same as GT4 I dont care if they ported them over to GT5. They look way better, have better physics, they have visual damage and mechanical damage. That is not the same as GT4. If you want a trophy for them actually being ported ill give you one.

You know, there's this little difference between 'the same car models as in GT4' and 'they look the same as in GT4'. Then again, people told you quite a few times by nowm so I probably shouldn't bother.

Isn't that the case for every game. Gt is the only game i know that took their Car modeling to another level. (premium)

GT is bbasically the only game that ported stuff from a last gen game. They took the modelling to another level, then went back two levels (GT5 -> GT5P -> GT4) and used those car models.