Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Goshin2568]

ROFL @ devedander

 

[mykem]

Differen cas in different environments adds confusion and the angles and distances help mask the differences. Also the standards you chose have mostly flat simple body lines and the angle masks a lot.

That said, there are noteable differences the closer you get the more obvious.

Look at the official GT website for a snapshot of standards one the one of premiums.

Obvious differences in premiums vs standards is that premiums lack visible vertex bumps on smooth/rounded sections from manything but super super close up views and body panels are actually seperate instead of drawn own.

All I can say is I think you have done some cursory research and are now trying to debate on par with those who have dug very deeply into the subject.

Kind of like me walking into a car shop and trying to argue that two engines are basically the same because I can't recognize the bored out head and rebuilt bottom end.

When you said snapshots of the two models, is this what you mean:

Again both look of equal quality with the only noticeable difference being the opaque windows and windshields. And I've looked at the often used close-up of the C5R-

But looking at the Alfa from the same video shows that the C5R capture seems to suffer from obvious artifact that's not as present on the Alfa capture (while both show that the video was heavily compressed):

To me, it's pretty clear that at the moment it's about impressions and opinions rather than something more concrete and explicit. And I doubt very much about how deep one can dig into this subject unless the motive itself is suspect.

You just have to look at the way the headlights are modelled for the standards and premiums respectively to notice a difference.

also, just look at the hood. it's basically painted on on the Camaro, while stuff like that is modelled with the premium cars (and can be lost due to receiving damage).

This answer is a good indication of how mystifying this whole argument has become. If we go back to the PD supplied snapshots- the hood on the Standard car look to me to be properly rendered, bump-mapped instead of just textures. And while it may be true that Premium cars have slightly different modeling due to its damage level (dislodged parts), it also means that the Standard car is as good as the cars in GT5 Prologue since the cars in that game have no damage modeling.

 

[RedSuinit]

Exactly... it feels a lot like:

Let's discuss Pizza Huts new sauce and their old sauce

Discussion:

Well their sauces are bad across the board but they have a lot of toppings, some you can't find elsewhere and their crust is DELICIOUS. Plus for the price you get way more food than your average competition.

Result:

WTF we were talking about sauces...

Actually, there is one thing that you are MISSING from that analogy of yours.

Let us discuss Pizza Hut sauces.

Discussion:

Well their sauces are good, but not the best; however, we can complain about their sauce, or we can choose not to. Here are a few reason not to complain about the sauce. The fact that you get a ton of food for the price, you get toppings you can't find elswhere, and their crust is great!

Result:

We don't care, we just want to 🤬 about the sauce.

 

[kingcars]

WHy does that matter to me when I'm inside the car looking out?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to a gaming perspective...like in chase cam or replay mode. Dark tinted windows with generic "interiors" look stupid and out of place.

And what is that supposed to mean exactly? I'm glad that you like living in antarctica, but here when the temps get high, it's nice to have the car a few degrees cooler.

It was actually a sarcastic joke, but since you took it seriously....my car has tinted windows, but you can still clearly see inside the car. And even on some really hot summer days here in NC, my car stays icey cold with the AC on.

 

[JDMKING13]

Actually, there is one thing that you are MISSING from that analogy of yours.

Let us discuss Pizza Hut sauces.

Discussion:

Well their sauces are good, but not the best; however, we can complain about their sauce, or we can choose not to. Here are a few reason not to complain about the sauce. The fact that you get a ton of food for the price, you get toppings you can't find elswhere, and their crust is great!

Result:

We don't care, we just want to 🤬 about the sauce.

 

[kingcars]

Kind of like me walking into a car shop and trying to argue that two engines are basically the same because I can't recognize the bored out head and rebuilt bottom end.

Gonna have to put on my Car Geek Nazi cap on for just a second. "Bored" is a term used for when the cylinder diameter is increased. "Ported" is the term used for enlarging/widening the airflow ports in the head(s), and the term can also be applied to intake manifolds. I'm just being nit-picky, so don't mind me 👍

 

[Goshin2568]

Anyways... Back to Standard vs Premium

 

[kingcars]

Actually, there is one thing that you are MISSING from that analogy of yours.

Let us discuss Pizza Hut sauces.

Discussion:

Well their sauces are good, but not the best; however, we can complain about their sauce, or we can choose not to. Here are a few reason not to complain about the sauce. The fact that you get a ton of food for the price, you get toppings you can't find elswhere, and their crust is great!

Result:

We don't care, we just want to 🤬 about the sauce.

There's a big difference between "bad sauce all across the board" and "good, but not the best." So your argument doesn't work. You can't just change the sauce and use that to counter his argument hahahaha.

Anyways... Back to Standard vs Premium

Hey, this is very important conversation we're having here. Don't interfere with that on-topic mumbojumbo of yours

 

[Dravonic]

When you said snapshots of the two models, is this what you mean:

http://us.gran-turismo.com/c/binary/images/5247/image03a.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://us.gran-turismo.com/c/binary/images/5247/image02a.jpg[IMG]

Again both look of equal quality with the only noticeable difference being the opaque windows and windshields. And I've looked at the often used close-up of the C5R-

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/35875lf.png[IMG]

But looking at the Alfa from the same video shows that the C5R capture seems to suffer from obvious artifact that's not as present on the Alfa capture (while both show that the video was heavily compressed):

[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4783315290_9e6381a941_b.jpg[IMG]

To me, it's pretty clear that at the moment it's about impressions and opinions rather than something more concrete and explicit. And I doubt very much about how deep one can dig into this subject unless the motive itself is suspect.[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to offend you even though it may sound like it.

By looking at your argument I can see that, basically, you're trying to argue something you don't know about. The differences are concrete but you don't have the background to understand them. That's why you can't see them and question our motives.

I assure you they are there, they are significant and you will be able to notice them as PD releases more footage on standard cars.

[quote="RedSuinit, post: 3931835"]Actually, there is one thing that you are MISSING from that analogy of yours.

Let us discuss Pizza Hut sauces.

Discussion:

Well their sauces are good, but not the best; however, we can complain about their sauce, or we can choose not to. Here are a few reason not to complain about the sauce. The fact that you get a ton of food for the price, you get toppings you can't find elswhere, and their crust is great!

Result:

We don't care, we just want to 🤬 about the sauce.[/QUOTE]

As much as I hate metaphors, they actually distract from the point more than help getting to it, wouldn't you agree a bad sauce can ruin the whole pizza? That's why me and a lot more people feel outraged by this. It's a huge flaw in a primary feature of the game, one that will affect considerably our gaming experience. That's why I fell like talking about it. Not because I like bickering and I want to find something to complain about.

 

[JDMKING13]

Gonna have to put on my Car Geek Nazi cap on for just a second. "Bored" is a term used for when the cylinder diameter is increased. "Ported" is the term used for enlarging/widening the airflow ports in the head(s), and the term can also be applied to intake manifolds. I'm just being nit-picky, so don't mind me 👍

I like when you talk like that But yeah your defiantly right. I remember when i got my head Ported and polished makes a huge difference. 👍

 

[kingcars]

I like when you talk like tha.t But yeah your defiantly right. I remember when i got my head Ported and polished makes a huge difference. 👍

Yeah I wanna get my aluminum heads ported at some point, but my cam really isn't big enough to really take advantage of it. But I had my cylinders bored .030 over, making it 306ci. 👍

Which reminds me...I hope they allow for displacement upgrades in GT5. I hate how it's only available in like 3 cars in the other GTs. So unrealistic.

 

[Goshin2568]

I like when you talk like tha.t But yeah your defiantly right. I remember when i got my head Ported and polished makes a huge difference. 👍

That's what she said

 

[OCDrummer151]

I don't understand why they think we would want 1000 cars. I don't know how many cars there were in GT4 but I know it wasn't even close to that. There aren't even close to 1000 sweet cars that are out there on the market. Think about it... How many cars are in this game that you actually want to drive. I think they should make high end super cars in premium mode, and everything else in standard, because the only people who care about how great their Acura Integra looks in the the replay, are people who drive Acura Integras in real life. I think it's awesome that they picked up Ferrari, but who wants to be driving an old 512 when there's going to be brand new models like the 458 Italia. All I'm trying to get at is that they shouldn't waste their time with adding a ridiculous amount of cars just so they can say they have 1000 cars in the game.
It's all about quality, not quantity.

 

[Goshin2568]

I don't understand why they think we would want 1000 cars. I don't know how many cars there were in GT4 but I know it wasn't even close to that. There aren't even close to 1000 sweet cars that are out there on the market. Think about it... How many cars are in this game that you actually want to drive. I think they should make high end super cars in premium mode, and everything else in standard, because the only people who care about how great their Acura Integra looks in the the replay, are people who drive Acura Integras in real life. I think it's awesome that they picked up Ferrari, but who wants to be driving an old 512 when there's going to be brand new models like the 458 Italia. All I'm trying to get at is that they shouldn't waste their time with adding a ridiculous amount of cars just so they can say they have 1000 cars in the game.
It's all about quality, not quantity.

There was over 700 in GT4. I would say that's pretty close.

 

[mykem]

I don't mean to offend you even though it may sound like it.

By looking at your argument I can see that, basically, you're trying to argue something you don't know about. The differences are concrete but you don't have the background to understand them. That's why you can't see them and question our motives.

I assure you they are there, they are significant and you will be able to notice them as PD releases more footage on standard cars.

I'm not offended at all. But I would advise that you to do the same- wait for more footage from PD. Because at the moment both the explanation and evidence I'm getting are pretty flimsy.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I don't understand why they think we would want 1000 cars. I don't know how many cars there were in GT4 but I know it wasn't even close to that. There aren't even close to 1000 sweet cars that are out there on the market. Think about it... How many cars are in this game that you actually want to drive. I think they should make high end super cars in premium mode, and everything else in standard, because the only people who care about how great their Acura Integra looks in the the replay, are people who drive Acura Integras in real life. I think it's awesome that they picked up Ferrari, but who wants to be driving an old 512 when there's going to be brand new models like the 458 Italia. All I'm trying to get at is that they shouldn't waste their time with adding a ridiculous amount of cars just so they can say they have 1000 cars in the game.
It's all about quality, not quantity.

Hmm, while conversely, the only people who demand nothing but supercars as Premium, and the newest of the breeds, are the ones who don't drive them in real life.

If you think the primary focus in GT should be just the high end vehicles, it's safe to say you miss the point.

 

[Goshin2568]

Hmm, while conversely, the only people who demand nothing but supercars as Premium, and the newest of the breeds, are the ones who don't drive them in real life.

If you think the primary focus in GT should be just the high end vehicles, it's safe to say you miss the point.

No, you are missing the point. Why would I want to drive a Honda Civic, or a Nissan Altima? I could drive those in real life. What I can't drive in real life is high end supercars, so I drive them in GT.... Simple.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well let's see; the series' stated goal is an "encyclopedia of cars", ranging from the everyday to supercars. That's from the game's producer. Alternately, some guy from Waco who thinks Porsche is Italian says it's about high-end supercars.

...and I'm missing the point?

 

[Goshin2568]

Ok, first of all, I already admitted that I was wrong on that, so there is no reason to bring it up again. Secondly, I agree that it should be a 'encyclopedia of cars', but think about it this way. How many people are just dying to drive a Toyota Prius? Or an Alfa Brera? Or a Peugot?now compare that to the number of people dying to drive a '69 Pontiac GTO, or an NSX, or a Murcielago, and you see my point. While it's great to be able to drive your family car in a video game (I guess...) the majority are looking forward to driving he supercars, and the old classic cars. The ones that you can't drive in real life.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

I find that point invalid, driving any car and trying as fast as you can is exhilarating. Gran Turismo is not a supercar challenge, but it's almost something that would make you a better driver. I enjoy driving a 147 or a Civic. Hey I like racing a Suzuki Alto Works Tuned. Back to the point of Standard vs. Premium, who cares? We dealt with it through like 8+ games and we lived with it! There is enough content in GT5 to crush any other game. Case closed.

 

[Snaeper]

Ok, first of all, I already admitted that I was wrong on that, so there is no reason to bring it up again. Secondly, I agree that it should be a 'encyclopedia of cars', but think about it this way. How many people are just dying to drive a Toyota Prius? Or an Alfa Brera? Or a Peugot?now compare that to the number of people dying to drive a '69 Pontiac GTO, or an NSX, or a Murcielago, and you see my point. While it's great to be able to drive your family car in a video game (I guess...) the majority are looking forward to driving he supercars, and the old classic cars. The ones that you can't drive in real life.

Gran Turismo was founded on one simple premise. Kazunori Yamauchi said "I want to drive my car on the television."

If you want to drive all of the hot iconic performance cars, play Need for Speed and Forza. Those are franchises based around people driving the desirable cars, with Gran Turismo being a franchise based around driving cars that you would normally not find in games.

 

[Goshin2568]

But I don't give a crap about what kaz says he made the game for. If I want to drive my car, than I'll drive my car. I don't want to play NFS or Forza, because they are not realistic. I want a simulator that I can drive nice cars. And btw, I'll bet kaz's cars are much nicer than most peoples, so that argument is null.

 

[KilzoneStrife]

No, you are missing the point. Why would I want to drive a Honda Civic, or a Nissan Altima? I could drive those in real life. What I can't drive in real life is high end supercars, so I drive them in GT.... Simple.

Umm...I think the new Need For Speed Hot Pursuit reboot is more up your street...

 

[Dravonic]

I'm not offended at all. But I would advise that you to do the same- wait for more footage from PD. Because at the moment both the explanation and evidence I'm getting are pretty flimsy.

The evidence we have now is good enough to draw the conclusions we are drawing in this thread whether you can understand it or not. If you want to believe us is up to you but the evidence is good.

No, you are missing the point. Why would I want to drive a Honda Civic, or a Nissan Altima? I could drive those in real life. What I can't drive in real life is high end supercars, so I drive them in GT.... Simple.

If you like NASCAR, GT5 is for you. If you like WRC, GT5 is for you. If you like taking pictures, GT5 is for you. If you like night racing, GT5 is for you. If you like supercars, GT5 is for you. If you like regular cars, GT5 is for you. If you like online racing, GT5 is for you. If you like car porn, GT5 is for you. If you like offline racing, GT5 is for you. If you like concept cars, GT5 is for you. If you like LMP cars, GT5 is for you.

The greatest thing about GT5 is it's not about a point, but many.

 

[Goshin2568]

Seriously? So you guys want the game to drive cheap cars you already own? There are people who actually want to realistically drive nice cars.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

So you own all the "cheap" cars, right? Also, you've taken them to tracks in real-life, so you know what they're like there too? And you don't have any desire to ever be the underdog in the lowly car, beating on ones a class or two above?

Meh, nevermind, I'm done feeding the troll, this has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[Goshin2568]

I'm not trolling. You started it, I believe by telling that other guy he was missing the point. I was defending him. I agree with your statement. I would like to do all of those things, but if you asked me the number 1 reason I will buy this game, I would not say "to take a cheap car around a track". I would say "to be able to drive cars I would not be able to in real life."
That is the only point I was trying to make. I'm sorry if it has come across as "trolling" or "rude".

 

[Tenacious D]

Seriously? So you guys want the game to drive cheap cars you already own? There are people who actually want to realistically drive nice cars.

Well, let's see.

I want to race a...

• Tiburon
• 240SX hatchback
• S2000
• 350and 370Z
• Sileighty
• The many Silvias
• The numerous Skylines
• The many WRXs
• And Lancer Evolutions
• 40 years' worth of Mustangs and Corvettes
• ...

Crap... it's late and I can't go on...

But anyway, how much do you think it would cost to race all those cars, and way more besides? And other than Bill Gates, who could afford it?

 

[Pierced Lead]

Well, let's see.

I want to race a...

• Tiburon
• 240SX hatchback
• S2000
• 350and 370Z
• Sileighty
• The many Silvias
• The numerous Skylines
• The many WRXs
• And Lancer Evolutions
• 40 years' worth of Mustangs and Corvettes
• ...

Crap... it's late and I can't go on...

But anyway, how much do you think it would cost to race all those cars, and way more besides? And other than Bill Gates, who could afford it?

Steve Jobs

 

[Goshin2568]

@ tenacious d
I would consider those nice cars, and I would like to drive most of those. All I was meaning is that my reasons for liking gran turismo is the variety of cars, but my preference would be ultra-expensive that I would never be able to drive IRL.