Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[CAMAROBOY69]

I still think they need to add updates each week or every couple weeks and make every single car premium. It would give us something to look forward to each week plus they would be completing the game while we have the luxury to play it. Releasing it this year with only 200 premium cars is just releasing an unfinished game. But if they can promise constant premium updates, that will help a lot to ease the pain.

 

[Scaff]

There are worst offenders than him, but I would suggest you try making an effort at ignoring him if it bothers you... or at least sounding more mature when you bring it up. Otherwise I'll wonder what a Porsche dealer is doing hiring someone who acts like he's still in high school.

I would also recommend taking a solitary approach at how you communicate your views and interests. Using terms like "we" to describe your agenda has obviously backfired and trying to rally everyone behind you to slander another member isn't a recommended strategy either.

For the record as well: practically every other post was not made by him, technically speaking of course.

It's being address with the member in question, but thank you for drawing it to the staffs attention.


Scaff

 

[Nero9]

I don't want to make a new topic about a simple question...so:
What Storage Media will the PS4 use?

If it uses bigger (larger capacity) discs, there could be more room for tracks and car and features etc...and no need to add another 500k polies to wait another 5 years.

Seriously, these "premium" car models are unrivalled today, maybe in 5 years time it will...or will it?

 

[analog]

I really doubt storage is the reason we only get 200 Premiums, it's got more to with time constraints due to either poor planning or a deliberate decision from the start.

 

[Luminis]

I don't want to make a new topic about a simple question...so:
What Storage Media will the PS4 use?

If it uses bigger (larger capacity) discs, there could be more room for tracks and car and features etc...and no need to add another 500k polies to wait another 5 years.

Well, instead of using a different storage medium, they should just come with a large HDD. HDDs became quite cheap over the last few years, and considering that the PS4 is still some time away, a 1TB HDD would probably be cheaper than a new storage medium. And with that large of a HDD, installing 50GB worth of tracks and cars wouldn't be much of a problem. PD could, thus, just release the next GT on multiple BluRay Discs.

That's what I'd do, at least.

Seriously, these "premium" car models are unrivalled today, maybe in 5 years time it will...or will it?

I could imagine they would still be top notch. On the other hand, that's probably what was said about the GT4 models as well.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I really doubt storage is the reason we only get 200 Premiums, it's got more to with time constraints due to either poor planning or a deliberate decision from the start.

That is exactly what happened. Trying to model 1000 cars to the highest detail inside and out was just way more than they could handle. I like graphics as much as the next person but there is a point where you need to draw the line. They are way too focused on trying to produce 1000 cars AND have the highest detailed graphics plus 16 cars on the track. Beyond overwhelming. They should have outsourced or pulled a lot more people in to help with this GT5 project. 5-6 years later and only 200 of the cars are finished, that looks VERY bad as a developer. At this point the majority of the community including myself just does not want to wait anymore. Just give us the unfinished game and keep patching it while you finish the premium cars.

 

[Rodpunisher]

Forza 2 model is far more detailed (with interior also), GT4 models is just a bit more accurate. Forza model would look much better than it looks with a better ilumination.
GT4 model is way too low poly, thats easy to spot and will look even more noticeable with more resolution and a premium car next to it.

What are you trying to prove? that the ilumination save the fact that its an obvious low poly car with lack of detail? Put both models under a good ilumination and its clear which one belong to each gen.

yep, you can notice that in the GT4 pic the car has less details than in FM2... but considering the overall look GT4 wins hands down... judging by the lightning it's clear which one belong to each gen :-)

 

[pay2021]

My thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium" is disapointment, i spect that all cars in GT5 gonna be premiun, like GT5P and the previus footage that they show to us, but just in the "end" they said, "oh, stop, only 200 cars gonna be like that, sorry" in sort of way they cheat us.

 

[Spagetti69]

Your right, the premiums should be standard by this gens standards anyway.
The standards are the ones they ran out of time on.

 

[steve30x]

I really doubt storage is the reason we only get 200 Premiums, it's got more to with time constraints due to either poor planning or a deliberate decision from the start.

Actually according to Kaz they almost have the BlueRay disk full.

 

[Spagetti69]

Actually according to Kaz they almost have the BlueRay disk full.

Like someone packing for holiday and they can't fit all their stuff in.

 

[Nero9]

Single -or Dual layer?

 

[Luminis]

yep, you can notice that in the GT4 pic the car has less details than in FM2... but considering the overall look GT4 wins hands down... judging by the lightning it's clear which one belong to each gen :-)

Thing is, and that's what the whole comparison between GT4 and Forza 2 models was all about, that the car models are being carried over. Since the lighting and everything else that's done by the graphic engine is being changed for GT5, the car models themselves are the only relevant things to be compared here. Whether GT4 wins when you're considering the overall look is completely besides the point.

 

[analog]

Actually according to Kaz they almost have the BlueRay disk full.

Yes but they could decide to have 2 disks ( which they did with GT2 ) I suppose, if that's the main problem which I doubt it is.
I can hardly see anyone complain about the possible inconvenience of having 2 disks if it means including the content we now have to do without.
But again, this probably isn't the reason why they only included 200 Premiums.

And CAMAROBOY69 I agree DLC updates to upgrade the Standard models to Premium ( although I think this will mean effectively replacing them ) will be nice but I'm doubtful this will actually happen as these models will probably be so time consuming to make and overlapping with the development of GT6 that they'll reserve those for GT6.
At least ( or to me the most important aspect ) I hope they can give us interior upgrades if they haven't included interiors for Standard cars ( which unfortunately seems to be the case ).

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

And CAMAROBOY69 I agree DLC updates to upgrade the Standard models to Premium ( although I think this will mean effectively replacing them ) will be nice but I'm doubtful this will actually happen as these models will probably be so time consuming to make and overlapping with the development of GT6 that they'll reserve those for GT6.
At least ( or to me the most important aspect ) I hope they can give us interior upgrades if they haven't included interiors for Standard cars ( which unfortunately seems to be the case ).

One thing is for sure, they need to focus 100% of their attention on GT5 for at least the next year or 2 and "finish" the other 800 cars. If that means releasing it in 2010 and then "finish" it with DLC for the next year then thats fine with me.
GT6 should not even be in their mind AT ALL until they actually complete GT5! Besides if it has taken them 5-6 years for GT5 you know it will easily be 10 years before GT6 even comes out and by then it will be on the next console.

 

[pay2021]

One thing is for sure, they need to focus 100% of their attention on GT5 for at least the next year or 2 and "finish" the other 800 cars. If that means releasing it in 2010 and then "finish" it with DLC for the next year then thats fine with me.
GT6 should not even be in their mind AT ALL until they actually complete GT5! Besides if it has taken them 5-6 years for GT5 you know it will easily be 10 years before GT6 even comes out and by then it will be on the next console.

I dont want to download 800 interiors, sorry, thats not serious. And talk about GT6 when even 5 is not released is a bit fast IMO.

 

[Nero9]

A Premium model ranges in size between 15-20 MBs.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I dont want to download 800 interiors, sorry, thats not serious.

I am guessing you would not have to dl them. It would be a patch just like every single other game out there. You would get an "update" message and after clicking the message it would install the patch. Then the patch would change your interior for that specific car from standard to premium. In theory. But you wouldnt be downloading these cars via DLC. A patch changes what you already have.
If they would have just finished the game we wouldnt even have to have this discussion every single day.

 

[pay2021]

I am guessing you would not have to dl them. It would be a patch just like every single other game out there. You would get an "update" message and after clicking the message it would install the patch. Then the patch would change your interior for that specific car from standard to premium. In theory. But you wouldnt be downloading these cars via DLC. A patch changes what you already have.
If they would have just finished the game we wouldnt even have to have this discussion every single day.

Thats a good aproach:tup:, but has you say we dont must to have this conversation

 

[analog]

One thing is for sure, they need to focus 100% of their attention on GT5 for at least the next year or 2 and "finish" the other 800 cars. If that means releasing it in 2010 and then "finish" it with DLC for the next year then thats fine with me.
GT6 should not even be in their mind AT ALL until they actually complete GT5! Besides if it has taken them 5-6 years for GT5 you know it will easily be 10 years before GT6 even comes out and by then it will be on the next console.

Well from what I gathered GT5 did take a long while to develop because they created a new structure or template to base their future releases on and that GT6 would therefore take shorter to develop as the main structure has already been done.

The remarks made by Kaz that the Premium models in hindsight may be better suited for the PS4 as they seem to push the limits of the PS3 could mean the most time spend developing GT6 might actually be modelling all those new Premium cars and could also mean the next GT title is for the PS4 ( or that the Premium models in GT5 can even be used in a PS4 game ).

To be honest I find it strange that after all this while we're apparantly getting upscaled PS2 and future PS4 models on the first full PS3 game.
I've said it before but what happened to the simple concept of having PS3 models in a PS3 game?

And pay2021, about not wanting to download 800 interiors, I'd rather download them than not being available at all.

 

[gtracedriver]

^^

No ... patch is used to fix the bugs. Like proper hand animations and other things. They are not going to add cockpit and make standard to premium I am sure. It will take them lots of time. However I think they will have some sort of cockpit view ?



I am so amazed at the GT4 and Forza2 comparison pics. GT4 appears to be more accurate

The standard cars are not best thing about GT5. PS2 was holding them back but still they made it look so good on PS2

Bloody big images removed by mod.

 

[Spagetti69]

Accurate!! How?

 

[Scaff]

I am so amazed at the GT4 and Forza2 comparison pics. GT4 appears to be more accurate

The standard cars are not best thing about GT5. PS2 was holding them back but still they made it look so good on PS2

Bloody big images removed by mod.

Posting images for a valid comparison and discussion is one thing, posting them to do what appear to scoring points is not valid.

I understand the use people have made of GT4 images, but enough is enough, posts like this are likley to do little more than cause arguments and do not help move the discussion forward.


Edited to add.....

Accurate!! How?

....this is exactly what I mean.



Scaff

 

[Devedander]

My thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium" is disapointment, i spect that all cars in GT5 gonna be premiun, like GT5P and the previus footage that they show to us, but just in the "end" they said, "oh, stop, only 200 cars gonna be like that, sorry" in sort of way they cheat us.

Exactly what I have been saying all along 👍

Your right, the premiums should be standard by this gens standards anyway.
The standards are the ones they ran out of time on.

Good way to put it.

Actually according to Kaz they almost have the BlueRay disk full.

How much is almost, and how many layers? And considering every PS3 comes with at least a 40GB HD (I think?) it wouldn't be too bad at all to go with an installable second disc.

 

[Spagetti69]

Well caught officer Scaff.

Just avoided a riot back there.

 

[regnar]

I really doubt storage is the reason we only get 200 Premiums, it's got more to with time constraints due to either poor planning or a deliberate decision from the start.

I think PD had very ambitious goals from the start. In my own opinion you would think PD would of initially set a goal for the number of vehicles that would be in the game, then get a gauge of how long it would take the model (I use the word model in a general sense) each vehicle. If it took to long to model, either reduce the level of detail or lower the number of cars. I can't imagine that 200 cars was there set goal. It seems they went full steam ahead anyway, only to find them selves behind the eight ball. A way to get them out of the hole was Standard Cars, Standard Cars being plan "B", which I can't believe Kaz envisioned for GT5. But PD seems to have stumble out of the blocks with this release.

An analogy with PD, is much like a person trying crossing a stream (they done it many times before, but this is bigger) carry their belongings, only to realize half way in, that their in big trouble. They have to make a decision, if they want to get to the other side, they have to throw some of their possessions away or not make it at all.

 

[analog]

Well we don't actually know whether it was a decision made from the start or a compromise they had to make somewhere midway.
I can understand making those Premium models in a way they can be used in future games but I can't really understand the Standard cars being less than what was expected for the current generation ( if they indeed turn out to be as most seem to fear ), meaning they should be PS3 models similar to the ones seen in Prologue in my opinion ( or at least I assumed for a long while these were PS3 models, I'm not sure or understand most of this whole issue anymore ).

 

[gtracedriver]

Ok I will not post those high res GT4 pics but there are no standard cars available so it is little tricky to talk, show pic about something that does not exists That is why I post those pics.

Accurate!! How?

May be accurate is not right word I think it should be how much accurate and I think everyone can judge by their observation because that is only the best evidence we have

Regarding the size I do not think it is issue at all. Even with 12 languages and what not ... 50gb is a lot. They are just using too much of these because they can so why not use it ? MGS4 uses some 40gb and GOW3 has 37gb. I do not think disc space has anything to do with standard models. It was more of an design decision they took. You can argue it was right or wrong but they obviously thought it was good thing to do.

 

[Rodpunisher]

Ok I will not post those high res GT4 pics but there are no standard cars available so it is little tricky to talk, show pic about something that does not exists That is why I post those pics.

Can you post the link to the pics, instead of the images??

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Besides if it has taken them 5-6 years for GT5 you know it will easily be 10 years before GT6 even comes out and by then it will be on the next console.

Your wrong in making that comment.

Many of us know that for GT5 PD have written a brand new game engine. Now GT6 won't be aslong in development because its already been stated that they will use the GT5 game engine and because of this they only have to add additional features.

What im curious about is will PD focus on releasing DLC for GT5 or will they start work straight away on GT6 after the release of GT5? I think the answer will be the latter and we can probably assume GT6 will release on the PS3 around 2013.