Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

Your wrong in making that comment.

Many of us know that for GT5 PD have written a brand new game engine. Now GT6 won't be aslong in development because its already been stated that they will use the GT5 game engine and because of this they only have to add additional features.

What im curious about is will PD focus on releasing DLC for GT5 or will they start work straight away on GT6 after the release of GT5? I think the answer will be the latter and we can probably assume GT6 will release on the PS3 around 2013.

Well... he might be wrong. Okay, 10 years is probably too much, but the limiting factor for the next game, now that the solid foundation is out of the way, is the time it takes to model cars. If Kaz has said one car takes six months of manhours to complete, we're looking at more than a few years to replace all the Standards. And nevermind all the important future releases in the automotive world that will come after GT5.

I can only assume the goal is to get rid of Standards; using them in the next game could mean some models are hovering around the 10 year mark. And as decent as they may look, overall, in the newer graphics engine, they still can't hold a candle to the Premiums, and are limited in features due to their basic makeup. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but even when GT4 came out, I knew the models weren't too future-proof, just because of how they're made. They look(ed) fantastic, but I knew there would be major changes needed in the future. I can't really see the same being said for any of the Premiums; they look plenty life-like and now behave more life-like.

Obviously this is all guess-work, since we don't even have GT5 yet, but the one bonus about it taking so long, after all these delays, is it has a bigger, more solid foundation for the next installment to be built off of. There's a solid chance the next GT will finally reverse the pattern of each sequel taking longer than the last.

 

[Dravonic]

A Premium model ranges in size between 15-20 MBs.

Source?

 

[lejam987]

OK here's what I think, they should keep the 800 standard cars along with the 200 premium and later release free DLC. But for those people who only want the 200 premium cars as their AI and to be purchasable, they should have a feature that lets them choose whether they want only premium/standard or both.

 

[kingcars]

Yes, you can pick them apart by hindsight.

No, I can pick them apart because I know exactly what I'm looking at and what the differences are.

I already posted images which indicate that GT4's headlights are 3D modeled, and as far as I know, all are modeled.

GT4s headlights are not all modeled. Did you miss the picture of the 70 Chevelle earlier? Here's another car with textured headlights:

And as for those modeled panel gaps in Forza, it doesn't show.

If you can't see the difference in the panel gaps, you are blind.

Maybe Dan is more right than he knows: that it's not how many polygons you have, but it's what you do with them that counts..

It's too bad that I've mentioned about 3 million times in this thread that I'm referring to the actual 3D models, NOT THE GRAPHICS ENGINE. They are COMPLETELY separate entities. I agree, GT's graphics engines have always been well ahead of the curve, that is NOT my gripe with the game. My gripe is with the obviously outdated 3D models, and the Celica comparison further proves it. The panel gaps, interior, and curved edges look MUCH better in the Forza shot. Also, using Forza 2 as comparison is really stupid. It was released a long time ago, way earlier in the console lifecycle than GT5.

 

[alucard0712]

Kaz about GTPSP:

"He also said he was particularly proud that the modeling of the cars comes from the PlayStation 3 version and not previous versions."

Thats where it starting even more confusing...

 

[kingcars]

Just for more elaboration...

Yes, you can pick them apart by hindsight.

And as for those modeled panel gaps in Forza, it doesn't show.

So you're telling me that you can't tell the difference between this

and this?

 

[Rodpunisher]

No, I can pick them apart because I know exactly what I'm looking at and what the differences are.



GT4s headlights are not all modeled. Did you miss the picture of the 70 Chevelle earlier? Here's another car with textured headlights:

So what is the problem of the headlights not been modeled??? The bottom line is if they look like the real-life counterpart..and for me they look ok. I really don't care if it is textured or modelled.

What are you trying to prove with your posts??? You keep saying the same thing since page 1 of this thread.. I think everybody understood your points..

All of this reminds me of a scratched vinyl

 

[kingcars]

So what is the problem of the headlights not been modeled??? The bottom line is if they look like the real-life counterpart..and for me they look ok. I really don't care if it is textured or modelled.

What are you trying to prove with your posts??? You keep saying the same thing since page 1 of this thread.. I think everybody understood your points..

All of this reminds me of a scratched vinyl

If everybody understood, why are they saying things like "all headlights in GT4 are modeled" and "I can't tell the difference between modeled and textured panel gaps?" Obviously, people don't understand.

And why are you just spouting out whatever Captain JDMKing has said? If my points were so invalid, why has nobody proven them wrong? Instead, everyone dances around the points I make and never addresses them head on. Not to mention that many people in here have NO CLUE what they're talking about; it seems like only a select few actually understand how 3D models are separate from the graphics engine, among other things. But no matter how many times I say it, someone chimes in with "LOOK AT THE LIGHTING OMG GT PWNS FORZA." In fact, the pro-standard guys keep saying the same things as well, so why don't you ask them?

 

[steve30x]

My thought on the standards maybe being upgraded with cockpits or with graphical upgrades of any sorts big or small is they could do it similar to what they done in Prologue and make it like GT5 Spce 1 , GT5 Spec 2 , GT5 Spec 3 etc. They could do a new spec every six months with some cars upgraded to a better quality. I'm not saying they would be upgraded to premium quality but upgraded to a better more acceptable quality maybe. Im not saying this will happen but it could possibly happen.

 

[Rodpunisher]

If everybody understood, why are they saying things like "all headlights in GT4 are modeled" and "I can't tell the difference between modeled and textured panel gaps?" Obviously, people don't understand.

And why are you just spouting out whatever Captain JDMKing has said? If my points were so invalid, why has nobody proven them wrong? Instead, everyone dances around the points I make and never addresses them head on. Not to mention that many people in here have NO CLUE what they're talking about; it seems like only a select few actually understand how 3D models are separate from the graphics engine, among other things. But no matter how many times I say it, someone chimes in with "LOOK AT THE LIGHTING OMG GT PWNS FORZA."

Well, for me the overall aspect of the game is more important than just a textured headlight. Maybe for you the only thing that matters is if the headlight is modeled or textured, or if the panel gaps are textured... you have your opinion and I respect that

 

[JDMKING13]

If everybody understood, why are they saying things like "all headlights in GT4 are modeled" and "I can't tell the difference between modeled and textured panel gaps?" Obviously, people don't understand.

And why are you just spouting out whatever Captain JDMKing has said? If my points were so invalid, why has nobody proven them wrong? Instead, everyone dances around the points I make and never addresses them head on. Not to mention that many people in here have NO CLUE what they're talking about; it seems like only a select few actually understand how 3D models are separate from the graphics engine, among other things. But no matter how many times I say it, someone chimes in with "LOOK AT THE LIGHTING OMG GT PWNS FORZA."

King while you just talk about modeling, I just care( some others) if the car look good. From what your saying i understand what you mean now, but in final GT5 still looks good and that whats count. Yes Forza3 has better 3d modeling but as a whole the cars are not better than the standards. They have their strong points and weak points just like the standards.

 

[gtracedriver]

Your wrong in making that comment.

Many of us know that for GT5 PD have written a brand new game engine. Now GT6 won't be aslong in development because its already been stated that they will use the GT5 game engine and because of this they only have to add additional features.

What im curious about is will PD focus on releasing DLC for GT5 or will they start work straight away on GT6 after the release of GT5? I think the answer will be the latter and we can probably assume GT6 will release on the PS3 around 2013.

Yeah I also think the same. Since this gen is going to last for many more years either they can keep releasing DLC or release GT6 in some years. I think DLC doesn't last more than a year anyhow. Sony will definitely ask them to make another GT game with 500 premium ? and it will be improved GT5 or if you like GT5= GT6P

Just for more elaboration...



So you're telling me that you can't tell the difference between this

and this?

You must be joking ... in those comparision GT4 is easily the winner.

The headlights, the side rear mirrors, toyota badge I am also struggling to see if there in any door handle in Forza pic also the front bonnet view is kinda strange if I can say as they both are little different

 

[Dravonic]

Painted on panel gaps, textured headlights, lack of details, all that would be somewhat acceptable really, if it wasn't for this:

See how the car is not smooth. How it has a very low polygon count that gives it an overall jagged look. That is very, very "last generation ish" and what makes them almost unacceptable to me.

 

[steve30x]

Thats a picture from GT4 not GT5. If your going to argue about it post a picture from the standards from GT5. Also could you guys please not post pictures that are so big.

 

[Dravonic]

Thats a picture from GT4 not GT5. If your going to argue about it post a picture from the standards from GT5. Also could you guys please not post pictures that are so big.

It has been proven and stated by PD themselves that standard cars are GT4 ports. The 3D model of the car will be exactly the same as it is in GT4. But if you still want to be pedantic about the comparison:

You can see the same thing in cars from the GT5 standard car trailer.

And the pictures need to be big because if they were small:

It would be much harder to see what I'm talking about.

 

[steve30x]

Im not going to argue about it but my opinion is that its much better to post the pictures from the GT5 standard cars instead of the GT4 cars. After all the argument is about standard cars in GT5 not cars in GT4. Also if you want to post pictures so big at least post a link to the picture instead of putting it in the forum.

Just one question though. Where did they say the cars were directly ported? As far as I know they said the cars were from GT4 , but I cant remember seeing anywhere except repeated on this thread over and over again that they were ported. You can argue how it is obvious with pictures from GT4 or pictures from standards in GT5 but that doesnt prove to me that they were imported / ported over.

Im just wondering how many more times does that C5R picture have to be posted? Ive seen it too many times now and I can see some parts that look better but a lot of the car is the same.

 

[Dravonic]

Im not going to argue about it but my opinion is that its much better to post the pictures from the GT5 standard cars instead of the GT4 cars. After all the argument is about standard cars in GT5 not cars in GT4. Also if you want to post pictures so big at least post a link to the picture instead of putting it in the forum.

Edited to suit your needs. Except for the big pic one. I don't see anywhere in the forum rules an image dimension limit.

 

[steve30x]

Edited to suit your needs. Except for the big pic one. I don't see anywhere in the forum rules an image dimension limit.

Yes I see that. Maybe youve missed it but Ive been reading this thread with a while now and Ive seen that C5R too many times now. Also I asked nicely to post links to bigger pictures. Does'nt being nice on here work? This is why I dont post on here much because I get attitude after I post.

Ive also edited my own post.

 

[JDMKING13]

I feel what the hardcore 3D artist are saying, how the standard 3D model are not good because they are from GT4. I just watched the standard cars video in HD and those cars look great IMO. In the end thats all i care about, Does the car look good and the answer is yes IMO. Bring on NOV 2. 👍

 

[steve30x]

I feel what the hardcore 3D artist are saying, how the standard 3D model are not good because they are from GT4. I just watched the standard cars video in HD and those cars look great IMO. In the end thats all i care about, Does the car look good and the answer is yes IMO. Bring on NOV 2. 👍

I'm with you on that. I dont care how super detailed they are not. I am happy with whatever PD gives me.

 

[Goshin2568]

I think NFS is more suited for him. (OCdrummer)

Ugh. It infuriates me to no end when people say things like that.

Just because he prefers supercars to regular cars, dosen't mean NFS is 'More suited to him'!

Why is is more suited to him? Because GT5 dosen't have supercars? No. Because in order to play GT5 you have to be an extreme car lover who loves every single car in the entire game? I certainly hope not, or I nor most people would be playing.

Why the 🤬 does his car preference make him inelegible to play GT5?

I "prefer" to drive supercars than regular cars, but it dosen't mean I won't drive and enjoy regular cars too! But that is my opinion.

Why not NFS? Because it's not realistic. So far, GT is the only series that gives a realistic gameplay, that's why I play. Mine, nor OCdrummer's car preference inside of GT5 should make us ineligible or unworthy to play the game. GT5 was made to be enjoyed by ALL car lovers, no matter what kind of car you love. Supercars, NASCARS, go-karts, Muscle Cars, whatever. Your preference should NOT keep you from having the same great experience as everyone one else.

That is all I have to say.

 

[Tornado]

I'm gonna have to state something that none of us will like to hear, but I think it is probable that (most of) the Standards will never become Premiums, DLC or not. Think of it this way: of the 700 or so cars from GT2, how many ended up returning in PS2-quality for GT4?
I think that PD would find it more practical to go back and model the succeeding cars and whatnot than to go back and remodel what are essentially a bunch of used cars.

 

[Scaff]

Edited to suit your needs. Except for the big pic one. I don't see anywhere in the forum rules an image dimension limit.

No it doesn't state it specifically in the AUP, it does however state...

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

....and I have asked politely that huge images are not posted. If you need to post a reasonable size image and then link to it (which is exactly what happens in the Photomode and Photography sub-forums).

Its also worth doing if you want people to look at them, as an awful lot of people will simply move past a post or even leave a thread if it they have to scroll sideways just to see all of an image.

So given the above I would once again ask that you don't post massive images in this thread.


Thanks

Scaff

 

[kingcars]

Well, for me the overall aspect of the game is more important than just a textured headlight. Maybe for you the only thing that matters is if the headlight is modeled or textured, or if the panel gaps are textured... you have your opinion and I respect that

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to LOVE GT5 and I have the CE on preorder, but I feel that PD/Sony marketed the game completely wrong. That's where the car model quality comes into play, because no other racing game has ever had such a ridiculous tier system of car models where 20% of them are the best in the business (and have been the only ones shown in screenshots, vids, and demos over the past 4 years) while the majority (80% of them) are last generation and look nowhere near what was implied previously by the marketing.

 

[Luminis]

King while you just talk about modeling, I just care( some others) if the car look good. From what your saying i understand what you mean now, but in final GT5 still looks good and that whats count. Yes Forza3 has better 3d modeling but as a whole the cars are not better than the standards. They have their strong points and weak points just like the standards.

The point is this:

The 3D models of the standard cars are worse than what even Forza 2 can offer. Now, that stuff is put into the omnipotent GT5.
Everyone's rambling on about how GT5 will look better than Forza 3, but then again, 80% of its main asset, the car models, aren't even up to the standards of the predecessor of said competition.

That's what we get after five years of development, after five years in which, while we knew that there are going to be standards and premium cars at one point, never had any reason to assume that PD would put that kind of stuff into the game. They said that GT5 would be creatted from scratch completely. Dunno about you guys, but to me, this implies that there isn't some stuff on the game has been ported from a game from the previous gen.

A game that was said to be created completely from scratch now features stuff that looks, from what we know so far, worse than the predecessor of its competition. Now, consider how much better the premium cars look than the competitors like Forza 3. Maybe you can then fathom the difference between standards and premiums. And one of the reasons some people are pretty upset about it.

Is it unreasonable to not be happy about that?

But yeah, I know, I know, they look great, yada yada... That's besides the point, but whatever, I guess a post or two later someone's going to say something along those lines anyway

 

[kingcars]

Im not going to argue about it but my opinion is that its much better to post the pictures from the GT5 standard cars instead of the GT4 cars. After all the argument is about standard cars in GT5 not cars in GT4. Also if you want to post pictures so big at least post a link to the picture instead of putting it in the forum.

Just one question though. Where did they say the cars were directly ported? As far as I know they said the cars were from GT4 , but I cant remember seeing anywhere except repeated on this thread over and over again that they were ported. You can argue how it is obvious with pictures from GT4 or pictures from standards in GT5 but that doesnt prove to me that they were imported / ported over.

Im just wondering how many more times does that C5R picture have to be posted? Ive seen it too many times now and I can see some parts that look better but a lot of the car is the same.

I believe the latest issue of OPM actually mentions the cars being ported (there's a quote in this thread somewhere), but honestly, we don't need confirmation because the proof is in the pictures. The cars have identical polygon layouts between GT4 and GT5, which is also why using GT4 screenshots to show the squared edges and other lacking details are valid points; because the models themselves have not been changed.

 

[sher_da_putt]

You'd have to be a fool to not understand that the cars are the same 3D moddels from GT4, but you would also have to be a fool to say GT5 standard cars look bad.

 

[Luminis]

You'd have to be a fool to not understand that the cars are the same 3D moddels from GT4, but you would also have to be a fool to say GT5 standard cars look bad.

Because that C5R that was posted above looks so sexy with its jagged fenders and painted on shutlines 👍

 

[Dravonic]

No it doesn't state it specifically in the AUP, it does however state...



....and I have asked politely that huge images are not posted. If you need to post a reasonable size image and then link to it (which is exactly what happens in the Photomode and Photography sub-forums).

Its also worth doing if you want people to look at them, as an awful lot of people will simply move past a post or even leave a thread if it they have to scroll sideways just to see all of an image.

So given the above I would once again ask that you don't post massive images in this thread.


Thanks

Scaff

Then, please, what are the maximum image dimensions I'm allowed to post? Without knowing them I'm lost because all I have are subjective rules to follow. Specially since I never got to see the dimensions of the image you called bloody big.

For example I would hardly call 1280x1024 massive. This I call massive but this is a perfectly reasonable size to me which only a 3+ year old monitor would struggle to show really.

 

[sher_da_putt]

Because that C5R that was posted above looks so sexy with its jacked fenders and painted on shutlines 👍

Agreed.