- 1,829
- Ireland
It looks fine to me. Im not fussed if the shutlines are painted or if the fenders are jagged. Those are minor details to me.
Honestly didnt you readt wahat Scaff wrote?
Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"
- Thread starter LP670-4 SV
- 10,183 comments
- 784,622 views
It looks fine to me. Im not fussed if the shutlines are painted or if the fenders are jagged. Those are minor details to me.
Honestly didnt you readt wahat Scaff wrote?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,801
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
600 x 900 is the size that tends to get used over in the Photography sub-forums, which is then linked to images as large as you like. So to my mind that would be a good starting point.
Now while I quite agree with your point about 3+ year old monitors, keep in mind that we have members from all over the globe, some from countries in which a 3+ year old monitor is about all they can go for. Also a lot of netbooks and smaller laptops will also throw a fit at larger images.
All of which means that some members will have to scroll sideways just to be able to read posts (and trust me that puts a lot of people off the thread and generates complaints).
Regards
Scaff
Like I said earlier, you can't say a car is pretty and post the most flattering angle of a car when a few seconds later in that same shot, the age of the model rears its ugly head.
- 1,156
Well in my opinion that is complete and utter rubbish.
Forza 3 replay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVYdYc4DFiU
GT5 standard car replay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8v7hjaSr6c
I know which I prefer. I've always been of the opinion that the cars in Forza look like plastic!
I agree that Forza's cars look like plastic, but I also realize that the reason behind the plastic look is the shoddy lighting engine, not the 3D models.
- 842
- sher_da_putt
Well looks of a car are only relevent in photomode? Agreed? Getting the best shot on GT5 standard cars is going to be the work around to the noticeable straightened adges, also in motion the standard cars are going to look fine as we have seen in the stadard cars video.
Once again, its all about how the cars look. Not the lack of polygons, last generation porting, if PD can make beautiful cars out of old models, so be it, it means the release date is sooner for us guys.
The only real letdown is the lack of cockpit view.
Otherwise, I think we should be happy that this game is actually going to finaly be in our PS3 drives.
- 842
- sher_da_putt
Well now this is more like what I've been trying to get at. If you think they look good, that's your opinion and it cannot be argued (and for the record, I don't think they look horrible, especially in GT5s graphics engine, but I've already stated the reasons why I hold my stance where I do on the subject). However, whether or not the actual models are up to today's standards is a whole other subject, and is what I'm trying to key on. đź‘Ť
- 4,323
Direct quote from an OPM interview:
As Yamauchi discusses his game, there's a sense that he'd work on it for another five years if he could. He Proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game but its with a degree of resignation that he confirms only 200 of those are new models for GT5."there are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game," he says. "we have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3 and the 200 Premium cars.
Even if I did agree (which I dont...one of my fav things in GT5P is watching the replays and gawking at the incredible car models), that would mean that in photomode, the standard cars would be a lot more limited in terms of angles you could use if you wanted to hide their imperfections.
- 842
- sher_da_putt
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
Just because they look 'better' in motion, dosen't mean they look good.
That's your opinion đź‘Ť . I beg to differ; even in motion, their age can easily be spotted. The first time I watched the standard cars video, it was 100% GT4 deja vu for me. I felt like I was watching a GT4 replay montage. That's not a feeling I want after waiting 6 years from GT4's release.
- 842
- sher_da_putt
Well you are only going to see them in motion, or in stills. The only stills that look bad, are when they are at certain angles. Everything else so far, in my opinion, the GT5 standards looks fine.
- 2,796
- SĂŁo Paulo
- Dravonic
Can I use flickr medium then? It is 640 pixels wide.
I too am amazed at the amount of times things need to be repeated in this thread. So by all means, lets move on:
This one is so apparent that I actually wonder if the real car looks like this:
This one unfortunately is certainly not in the real car:
Neither is this one:
(Click for larger images without red lines)
As you can see the CR5 is used a lot because the car is very close to the camera and not very blurry so you can see a lot of the flaws. But other cars also show them.
- 5,700
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Yea king After 100 pages I finally got what you where saying sorry about that man . I defiantly understand you and respect your opinion. đź‘ŤMe i'm not really not that hardcore on graphics like you so they look just as good as any game i played. (Forza3, NFS Shift) If i can tolerate those game i know i can play with the standards đź‘Ť
@ dravonic
Is it that serious? Honestly you can do that for every racing game man (maybe not the premium )
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Me i'm not really not that hardcore on graphics like you so they look just as good as any game i played. (Forza3, NFS Shift) If i can tolerate those game i know i can play with the standards đź‘Ť
@ dravonic
Tolerate? That's an odd choice of words...
To those saying the lack of detail in Standards doesn't hold any differences in the game other than "limiting Photomode angles", I direct you to the damage model, the low/high beams, and if there are swappable body parts as hinted by the "Tuned" Prologue models... yeah, don't expect those on Standards either.
I'm of the same opinion as kingcars; I'm sure I'll love my Collector's Edition, and I'll play the game for a long, long time, but that doesn't change the fact the Standard models aren't even close to the levels this generation shows, and it's a bit disappointing this long-awaited game gets hype from its company as a "Revolution" when a lot of its main draw (the car lineup) is ported-over last-gen stuff.
- 996
- Texas
- GTP_Rees
.....Honestly you can do that for every racing game man (maybe not the premium
Yes the premiums too. Look at any of the 18mp shots on the front page.
Yes this gen also. See comment above. It was discussed to death, along with the headlight-sticker debate regarding the Nascars.
All games have it, this gen, last gen, and probably next gen........(well maybe not next gen...
we'll have to wait and see.. )However, the GT4 models are inferior, that is not debatable (IMO); it all boils down to personal importance and pride. (not OUR personal importance, but what we deem important in a game and what the developers can be proud of) đź‘Ť
[sorry, didn't mean to interupt
]
- 177
- Rodpunisher
- Rod punisher
Well, I gave it a try. Really it was not so hard
original image: http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2786/72rg1wedit.jpg
resized
MOD - Turn into a link - given the discussion over the last few pages on image size was this really the smartest move? - MOD
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- 40,921
Not really even remotely the same thing, to be honest.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I don't see how images like this do anything other than prove the point? GT5 Standards have clear rough polygon shapes even when they're not the sole thing in the image. They can be half the size of the whole image, and still have jaggies.
Go find a comparatively close GT5 image of a Standard car and you could probably make out individual pixels on the (textured, not modelled) grille!
These apples-to-oranges comparisons miss the point.
- 177
- Rodpunisher
- Rod punisher
I don't see how images like this do anything other than prove the point? GT5 Standards have clear rough polygon shapes even when they're not the sole thing in the image. They can be half the size of the whole image, and still have jaggies.
Go find a comparatively close GT5 image of a Standard car and you could probably make out individual pixels on the (textured, not modelled) grille!
These apples-to-oranges comparisons miss the point.
I am not trying to prove anything. It was said in the last page that you can't see rough edges in games of this gen. The image speaks for itself.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
I think that standard cars are alot better than all of us think,journalists who saw them in gameplay describe them as being on par with your Forza and PGR vechiles .In other words Standard =PS3 quality but no interior
Premium=PS4 quality with interior and that is what I think untill maybe proven wrong.
Premium=PS4 quality with interior and that is what I think untill maybe proven wrong.
- 2,796
- SĂŁo Paulo
- Dravonic
Yes the premiums too. Look at any of the 18mp shots on the front page.
Yes this gen also. See comment above. It was discussed to death, along with the headlight-sticker debate regarding the Nascars.
All games have it, this gen, last gen, and probably next gen........(well maybe not next gen...
However, the GT4 models are inferior, that is not debatable (IMO); it all boils down to personal importance and pride. (not OUR personal importance, but what we deem important in a game and what the developers can be proud of) đź‘Ť
[sorry, didn't mean to interupt
Well, I gave it a try. Really it was not so hard
original image: http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2786/72rg1wedit.jpg
resized
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4728/72rg1wedit1.jpg[IMG]
MOD - Turn into a link - given the discussion over the last few pages on image size was this really the smartest move? - MOD[/QUOTE]
Yes, yes... The cars are made of polygons, if you get close enough, they will show. The key here is how apparent they are. As the generations pass, the polygon edges get smaller and less apparent.
So if we look at a last generation car:
[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4793795157_ebcc250198_z.jpg
The polygonal lines in the roof are very apparent
If we look at a new generation car:
We can no longer see them.
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- 9,295
- Duisburg
In the post you quoted, I stated I was talking about the models of the cars twice. Saying that the 3D models are inferior. As in, Gt5 would look a lot better if its standard car models would match at least Forza 2's. The models. Get it? Probably not. But then, it seems a lot of people don't. Or don't want to, whatever.
Zoom that image out enough so that the whole car can be seen in the pictue. Resize it to 640xsomething. Compare that to the pictures Dravonic posted.
PS4 quality... Honestly, that's just... If they were PS4 quality, the PS3 couldn't run them. Not 16 of those on a track. Just because Kazunori said they might be better suited for a PS4 game doesn't mean they are PS4 quality. They were created in this gen, they run on this gen's hardware, so why exactly are they next-gen models?
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
The more I think about this whole issue and its implications the more I'm annoyed this whole incoherent approach was even considered in the first place.
When I first played Prologue and experienced the quantum leap in quality over GT4 I assumed GT5, being the first full GT game on a new console, would be approached in quite the same manner as GT3.
Meaning a new structure and maybe a few hundred cars ( more than 200 anyway since there were already 70 or so in Prologue ) in full quality.
They obviously after GT4 couldn't go back to only offer 150 or so cars GT3 offered ( and Forza3 offering 400 ) but I think most could live with the logic it would be impossible to reach the massive number GT4 had ( at least I didn't count on that ).
When it was announced they were approaching 950 I was extremely impressed and part of me thought it was the main reason it took so long to develop and was really looking out for experiencing all those cars in the way Prologue ( hence the title ) promised them to be.
Now we're getting a game with Premium cars which offer an insane amount of detail many won't even notice or asked for and some upscaled filler ( without even an interior feature apparantly which was introduced in Prologue ) which form 80% of the game content regarding cars.
I find it increasingly hard not to laugh when someone mentions the word perfectionist when describing Kaz who prouds himself on the fact he doesn't care what the competition is doing.
I've never played a Forza game ( so I can't judge it ), I've instead always gone for the familiar and satisfying route of buying PD games for my driving game fix ( and have bought all their titles ) but Kaz could have done worse than looking at the number of cars Turn10 found appropriate to put into a game for current-gen consoles.
400-500 equally impressive cars ( to the standard of PD ) in the first full game on the PS3 was all I could hope for, instead we get just 200 ones and 800 completely different ones ( sorry but I can't regard that as a bonus, and yes I've tried ).
GT has always been about recreating each car they chose to include ( regardless of subjective criteria like status, desirability or even cultural significance ) with the same level of attention, not a two-tier system deviding the new standard from the old standard just to claim having a 1000 cars apparantly.
This is possibly the very first time a PD product may disappoint me, as I haven't really complained or "whined" about any other aspect of any GT game before and I really hope I will be proven wrong for thinking that, but there you go.
When I first played Prologue and experienced the quantum leap in quality over GT4 I assumed GT5, being the first full GT game on a new console, would be approached in quite the same manner as GT3.
Meaning a new structure and maybe a few hundred cars ( more than 200 anyway since there were already 70 or so in Prologue ) in full quality.
They obviously after GT4 couldn't go back to only offer 150 or so cars GT3 offered ( and Forza3 offering 400 ) but I think most could live with the logic it would be impossible to reach the massive number GT4 had ( at least I didn't count on that ).
When it was announced they were approaching 950 I was extremely impressed and part of me thought it was the main reason it took so long to develop and was really looking out for experiencing all those cars in the way Prologue ( hence the title ) promised them to be.
Now we're getting a game with Premium cars which offer an insane amount of detail many won't even notice or asked for and some upscaled filler ( without even an interior feature apparantly which was introduced in Prologue ) which form 80% of the game content regarding cars.
I find it increasingly hard not to laugh when someone mentions the word perfectionist when describing Kaz who prouds himself on the fact he doesn't care what the competition is doing.
I've never played a Forza game ( so I can't judge it ), I've instead always gone for the familiar and satisfying route of buying PD games for my driving game fix ( and have bought all their titles ) but Kaz could have done worse than looking at the number of cars Turn10 found appropriate to put into a game for current-gen consoles.
400-500 equally impressive cars ( to the standard of PD ) in the first full game on the PS3 was all I could hope for, instead we get just 200 ones and 800 completely different ones ( sorry but I can't regard that as a bonus, and yes I've tried ).
GT has always been about recreating each car they chose to include ( regardless of subjective criteria like status, desirability or even cultural significance ) with the same level of attention, not a two-tier system deviding the new standard from the old standard just to claim having a 1000 cars apparantly.
This is possibly the very first time a PD product may disappoint me, as I haven't really complained or "whined" about any other aspect of any GT game before and I really hope I will be proven wrong for thinking that, but there you go.
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- 5,700
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Yes, yes... The cars are made of polygons, if you get close enough, they will show. The key here is how apparent they are. As the generations pass, the polygon edges get smaller and less apparent.
So if we look at a last generation car:
If we look at a new generation car:
We can no longer see them.
Bro you cant call those new generation those are in a league of its own. If you call that new gen you cannot call Forza3 and NFS shift new generation they look nothing compared to those shots.
Talking about models like you guys Forza3 is a new generation game however they might not suffer with those line like you pointed out but they have 3D modeling issues also.
This model is wrong the nose does not stick out longer than the car.
These are direct quotes on how folks feel about the R32 in F3
"The difference being here is you listed the apparent limitations of the platform (poor rendering ability versus, say, the PS3, means no amazing lighting model until next generation), where we're talking about cut corners by the developer. This car is very off, even for video game standards.It's not just the lights, practically every detail exceeds a tolerable threshold. Personally, I'm not very exposed to the Nissan super-sportscars (I've only spent about 15 min total with R32s), but the more I compare the model with real photographs, the more bad looking it becomes. As I said, everything in this model is partially wrong. I'm not bashing the game for bashing's sake, but what I find with video games is that there's a certain point beyond which you cannot forget you're in a game, and any sense of realism goes down the drain. Window tint and other things can be overlooked, but a model that clearly does not represent the real life car is crossing the line. I don't know if I'll be able to drive the car in FM3 now (I ignored it in FM2 for the same reasons), and if I was a JDM fan I would be very angry."
"Wow. Incorrect again. The problem here is we're dealing with more than a half-decade old model that was wrong from day one. This model has been unchanged since Forza 1, the only difference now is they're using a higher quality version of the original source model. The model is inaccurate enough to break the third wall for some of us, and it is glaring on anything over a 27" HDTV. This model was a rush job, and if Greenawalt can exclaim this as the "definitive racing game" series then, at least on the car side, Turn 10 is going to have to step up their game."
"This is a driving sim. It is supposed to simulate real life. And when a sloppily modelled car is present in a game like this, for quite a few people it breaks the third wall and puts a damper on the experience. I mean, what's the point of spending millions of dollars on a physics engine when the cars don't even look like the real thing? It only takes a 30 second glance to tell the R32 is 100% incorrect, from the angle of the bumper to the size of the rear to the curve of the character lines, let alone the size, shape, and positioning of the lights. It's just unacceptable to keep perpetuating this model."
Some of those folks over at FM.net are angry just like some of you with the modeling of the standards, it just shows me that no game is going to be perfect. IMO If anybody can enjoy playing GT4, GT5P, Forza3, NFS Shift they should have a great time with the standard cars in GT5.
I can understand you being upset for thinking we where going to get 1000 premiums, I was thinking the same thing man. I have let it go and looked at the big picture, IMO we are getting 200 cars that will give us an experience like no other racing game on a console has. We are getting an upgraded version of GT4/GTPSP cars that will give us a better experience that we had in GT4/GTPSP. This to me is important. Even though the standards don't match up to the premiums, they are going to give us one hell of an experience that is better than is older version (GT4) Which IMO what really counts. This is why FM3 was a let down for me it felt like FM2 all around. I have never thought KAZ was perfect it is silly to think so, because nobody is perfect. In the end i am sorry you feel like you might be disappointed by PD. Looking at the big picture i think GT5 is going to be a amazing game. Bring on November 2 đź‘Ť
