Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[II IVORBIGUN II]

by the way that it looks the admins will close this thread in any second.

Probably not a bad idea because there is nothing to discuss.

Despite the constant moaning nothing is going to change with regards to the issue between standard or premium cars. So those who continue to moan about the standard cars have 3 options.

1. Don't buy GT5.
2. Only use premium cars.
3. Just accept the difference between standard & premium cars.

Off topic a friend of mine said to me recently they are surprised at how I don't moan about my health problems and they said this because i've had 6 operations on my spine, 1 operation on my hip and yet I continue to suffer from pain. My response was "what is the point of moaning and getting depressed because this won't make any difference to my health problems".

So GT members need to accept the standard cars because the moaning won't change a thing!

 

[G.T.Ace]

Just speculation of course but I fully expect next gen cars to have multiple millions of polygons. Hell if we consider GT4 models had about 5k and GT5 cars have 500k we should expect 50 million polygon cars in the PS4. A car with just half a million will probably look very jagged when next to one with 100 times more polygons.

Of course that doesn't mean they need to start from scratch but definitely should improve them, a lot.

No, we shouldn't.
Actually the polycount of the GT5 cars is almost big enough for photorealism depending on the camera position, what we should expect is, that background objects will be on a similar level and a lot more special effects and most likely better textures. If we get a polycount with 1.000.000 in-game that would be more than enough.

 

[Organ-Donor]

I'll argue. I guess that I have a different perspective than many here. I like cars but I'm not obsessed with them. However, I do love to drive. To me even if the 800 cars are crap, I won't be the least bit disappointed with being stuck with 200 cars. I never got tired of the 70 cars in prologue. I doubt that I will get tired with the 200 premium cars. The limited tracks were a much bigger problem with prologue.

If PD includes all the features that have been rumoured including weather and a track editor then the game will be truly will be a "revolution" to me. The "80% of the game" that I may never see (is it really 80% then) just doesn't bother me.

I agree with you. The point I highlighted from his post was mostly my feelings that we generally expected most of the car models to be atleast prologue standards, so the GT4 ported models were a shock to me at first, I can't lie about that.

I have since gotton over it, due to stepping back and looking at the full scale of everything we are getting in GT5. Like you said, day/night cycles, track editor, NASCAR, F1, WRC, 3D support, a fully in depth online mode, etc. has made the standard car models pale in comparison to the full scale of the game. (I am however still pissy about the lack of cockpit views, but thats an arguement for another day)

I am a car enthusiast so I want as many cars in the game as they can add. Plus, along with the PS3 engine, lighting system, new physics, and damage applied to the 'GT4 cars', to me it won't feel or look like I'm just playing GT4 again. Novemeber can't come soon enough.

 

[McLaren]

Probably not a bad idea because there is nothing to discuss.

Despite the constant moaning nothing is going to change with regards to the issue between standard or premium cars. So those who continue to moan about the standard cars have 3 options.

1. Don't buy GT5.
2. Only use premium cars.
3. Just accept the difference between standard & premium cars.

In other words, those of you who actually have an opinion about the difference in the cars should shut up since you can't change anything to begin with.

 

[JDMKING13]

Probably not a bad idea because there is nothing to discuss.

Despite the constant moaning nothing is going to change with regards to the issue between standard or premium cars. So those who continue to moan about the standard cars have 3 options.

1. Don't buy GT5.
2. Only use premium cars.
3. Just accept the difference between standard & premium cars.

Off topic a friend of mine said to me recently they are surprised at how I don't moan about my health problems and they said this because i've had 6 operations on my spine, 1 operation on my hip and yet I continue to suffer from pain. My response was "what is the point of moaning and getting depressed because this won't make any difference to my health problems".

So GT members need to accept the standard cars because the moaning won't change a thing!

Damn Im sorry about your heath issues, but i will give you props on how your handling the situation. My grand ma and mother and my coach (Greg Schiano)
Said the same thing to me man. Keep your head up and I hope your health issues get better. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Just speculation of course but I fully expect next gen cars to have multiple millions of polygons. Hell if we consider GT4 models had about 5k and GT5 cars have 500k we should expect 50 million polygon cars in the PS4. A car with just half a million will probably look very jagged when next to one with 100 times more polygons.

Of course that doesn't mean they need to start from scratch but definitely should improve them, a lot.

, that's what I mean about diminishing returns! The idea of a 50 million poly car seems like overkill; nevermind the writing on the bulbs in the lights, we could have that etched in if its necessary! I suspect a model of around 1 million if we were including more under-skin modelling (the engine, suspension, full exhaust system). I don't think we'll see quite the jump we had from last gen to this gen; it's kind of like going from VHS (PS2) to DVD (PS3) to BD (PS4)... we'll see improvements, but not nearly as drastic as that first jump!

I feel like the huge jump in polygons witnessed on this generation comes down to not relying on textures anymore. Having individual panels of any measurable depth drastically ups that number. Either way, it's a lot of fun to think about...

Where do we create a GT6 Speculation thread?

 

[JDMKING13]

I agree with you. The point I highlighted from his post was mostly my feelings that we generally expected most of the car models to be atleast prologue standards, so the GT4 ported models were a shock to me at first, I can't lie about that.

I have since gotton over it, due to stepping back and looking at the full scale of everything we are getting in GT5. Like you said, day/night cycles, track editor, NASCAR, F1, WRC, 3D support, a fully in depth online mode, etc. has made the standard car models pale in comparison to the full scale of the game. (I am however still pissy about the lack of cockpit views, but thats an arguement for another day)

I am a car enthusiast so I want as many cars in the game as they can add. Plus, along with the PS3 engine, lighting system, new physics, and damage applied to the 'GT4 cars', to me it won't feel or look like I'm just playing GT4 again. Novemeber can't come soon enough.

I can understand some being upset for thinking we where going to get 1000 premiums, I was thinking the same thing man. I have let it go and looked at the big picture, IMO we are getting 200 cars that will give us an experience like no other racing game on a console has. We are getting an upgraded version of GT4/GTPSP cars that will give us a better experience that we had in GT4/GTPSP. This to me is important. Even though the standards don't match up to the premiums, they are going to give us one hell of an experience that is better than its older version (GT4) Which IMO what really counts. Looking at the big picture i think GT5 is going to be a amazing game. Bring on November 2 👍

Same thing I was saying man cant agree with you more. Nov 2 cant come any faster 👍

 

[Dravonic]

No, we shouldn't.
Actually the polycount of the GT5 cars is almost big enough for photorealism depending on the camera position, what we should expect is, that background objects will be on a similar level and a lot more special effects and most likely better textures. If we get a polycount with 1.000.000 in-game that would be more than enough.

There's no telling what's gonna happen of course but yeah, that should be possible.

Of course PD can be satisfied with say, 10M or maybe 5M and decide to use the rest of the power in the scenario, which, lets be honest, PD compromised in GT5 in favor of making astonishing cars.

But you're completely clueless if you think 1M is enough to achieve photo-realism, specially when we are talking about huge resolutions and close ups.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Damn Im sorry about your heath issues, but i will give you props on how your handling the situation. My grand ma and mother and my coach (Greg Schiano)
Said the same thing to me man. Keep your head up and I hope your health issues get better. 👍

Thanks for those kind words. Playing damn ice hockey when I was 18 caused these problems!

I hope members aren't upset at my comments. I just feel its wasted energy complaining about something that we cannot change. I would love 1000 premium cars but instead im focussing on everything else that GT5 offers.

 

[Spagetti69]

I really hope the premiums are from a wide range of classics, modern, supercars etc.
I've got a feeling that the classics like E-types and gullwings etc are gonna be a casualty regarding premiums.

I realise everone has different tastes but I wouldn't like to be the one who decides what gets the premium treatment and what gets cut.

I've read somewhere that 9 premiums are NASCAR models.
Maybe that's a bit much.
In my opinion of course.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I've read somewhere that 9 premiums are NASCAR models.
Maybe that's a bit much.
In my opinion of course.

Yes I would agree 9 is too much. I would like to see a nice balance between the premiums.

 

[Luminis]

Regarding the whole future proving... Well, that's something I'm absolutely not sold on. Of course, the premium cars are pushing the boundaries on this generation. They do so both in regards to the PS3s hardware and in regards to the time PD has to spend on modelling the individual cars.

But, hardware wise, they won't be pushing anything on the PS4. The PS3's hardware was incredible when it came out, but by now, a new gaming PC can out do it in terms of raw power easily. Thanks to the highly optimised games, the graphics that can be achieved with the consoles hardware are still impressive, but I guess you get the point. The hardware is evolving and it's evolving fast.

And I guess it's save to say that with better hardware, the modelling is going to be easier as well. The software one can work with to model the cars improves and I'd think that the means that can be incorporated to get the needed info on a car to accurately model it are improving as well.

What I'm trying to say is, even though we might not be able to imagine that the average quality of car models in video games would get a lot higher in the next generation of consoles than what PD achieved with the premium, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

When GT4 came out, the models were pushing the PS2's hardware to its limits. To the point that the models used while racing were different from the ones used in photo mode; bacl then, a lot of people would've thought the car models would be future proof and that 50'000 polygons, let alone 500'000 polygons would never be achieved withing the next five to six years in a game. But look at what we're getting with the premiums...

Considering the speed the hardwaare is advancing at, I just doubt the whole concept of future proofing your stuff has a lot of merit, when you're in PD's business.

It's an assumption, of course, but in another five years, or possibly more, depending on when the first full GT on the PS4 is released, we might think about the car models that we now know as premiums just like we do about the standard car models now...

 

[G.T.Ace]

There's no telling what's gonna happen of course but yeah, that should be possible.

Of course PD can be satisfied with say, 10M or maybe 5M and decide to use the rest of the power in the scenario, which, lets be honest, PD compromised in GT5 in favor of making astonishing cars.

But you're completely clueless if you think 1M is enough to achieve photo-realism, specially when we are talking about huge resolutions and close ups.

We are already close to photorealism with GT5, you are clueless if you think cars in GT6 will have 50 million polygons, I bet not even the newest CGI movies from Pixar or Dreamworks have objects with a polycount like this.

Note, I mean single obects (cars, trees, characters...), not a whole scenery or the movies in total.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Considering the speed the hardwaare is advancing at, I just doubt the whole concept of future proofing your stuff has a lot of merit, when you're in PD's business.

It's an assumption, of course, but in another five years, or possibly more, depending on when the first full GT on the PS4 is released, we might think about the car models that we now know as premiums just like we do about the standard car models now...

Im old enough to remember playing Manic Miner on the ZX Spectrum. Maybe thats why im easily pleased and have witnessed the improvement of hardware over the years.

I do agree with your post though.

 

[Dravonic]

We are already close to photorealism with GT5, you are clueless if you think cars in GT6 will have 50 million polygons, I bet not even the newest CGI movies from Pixar or Dreamworks have objects with a polycount like this.

Note, I mean single obects (cars, trees, characters...), not a whole scenery or the movies in total.

You're completely disregarding I'm making a wild guess here. I don't know how many polygons it will have and I'm far from affirming anything. Again, I expect it to go into the multiple millions but not exactly as high as 50M. If the polygon jump from PS2 to PS3 is anything to go by, the cars in the PS4 should have close to 50M polygons. But sure, that sounds like overkill and may not happen at all. PD can certainly shift the polygon usage ratio to use more polygons on tracks for example.

What I do know is 1M is certainly not enough for cars to achieve photo-realism. They have too many curves and if you close up in a headlight for example, it will show. If you look at the 18MP shots of the 500k polygon cars in GT5, they already show a considerable amount of polygonal edges really. 1M polygons is not enough to get rid of them.

 

[analog]

Im old enough to remember playing Manic Miner on the ZX Spectrum. Maybe thats why im easily pleased and have witnessed the improvement of hardware over the years.

Unfortunately I'm also old enough to remember playing 80's console games and their appalling graphics compared to what we now have at our disposal.
I'm still amazed how far and how quickly things have progressed and remembering those 80's and 90's games sure puts things in perspective sometimes.
But easily pleased? I'm trying to judge the graphics of a game to the current standards because I try to adapt my expectations and frame of reference to today's situation, otherwise why invest in a current gen console?
I grew up without internet being available or even existing in its current form but I can be quite pissed if my broadband connection slows down as it's just something I nowadays come to expect.
If we were all easily pleased ( and not saying that's wrong in any way btw ) by what we experienced growing up with we would still live in the stone age.

 

[Devedander]

Gt5 cars are beyond ps3 makes no sense... Its like me saying I am running faster than humanly possible!

As for futureproofing the problem isn't so much expexting ho much more of todays elements we will have but rather what new elements will be desired then.

Future proofing is difficult because it involves predicting the future...

Model the cars to 100000000000 polygons to be sure you are future proof but what if next year the big thing is density mpping where the metals actual hardness and thickness are modeled? Guess what you didn't see that comming so your future proof models are useless now.

Future proofing is like trying to buy a car that will never be dated... Just because you have the best of everything today doesn't mean tomorrow the next great thing won't come along or some thing will make your engine obsolete (unleaded gas).

Unless you are psychic there is no such thing as future proofing.

 

[RedSuinit]

Gt5 cars are beyond ps3 makes no sense... Its like me saying I am running faster than humanly possible!

As for futureproofing the problem isn't so much expexting ho much more of todays elements we will have but rather what new elements will be desired then.

Future proofing is difficult because it involves predicting the future...

Model the cars to 100000000000 polygons to be sure you are future proof but what if next year the big thing is density mpping where the metals actual hardness and thickness are modeled? Guess what you didn't see that comming so your future proof models are useless now.

Future proofing is like trying to buy a car that will never be dated... Just because you have the best of everything today doesn't mean tomorrow the next great thing won't come along or some thing will make your engine obsolete (unleaded gas).

Unless you are psychic there is no such thing as future proofing.

All of you need to re-read what Kazunori Yamauchi has stated. He has said it is probably BETTER SUITED for the PS4, that is NOT equivalent to saying that it is beyond the PS3. He merely means that he is pushing the limits of the PS3 and still wants to put more in them.

 

[freshseth83]

Wasn't the first thing said about Standard cars is that they were RE-DONE for the PS3 and GT5? I don't remember the exact quote or where it came from, but I'm sure that was said by Kaz or his staff. One video of the standard cars isn't the final product. How many times must people bring up the point that Kaz made? "were working to make the graphics even better up until the game's release" Anyone remember that? I fully expect the cars (premium/standard) to look pretty much the same from the outside when the game releases. Kaz has never given a two-tier system. Of course some will say, 'that's what GT5 is' but those were not his words. He said two TYPES of cars. What the difference between Standard and Premium means is up for grabs, but to say that it's graphics is a little premature IMO.

 

[Devedander]

All of you need to re-read what Kazunori Yamauchi has stated. He has said it is probably BETTER SUITED for the PS4, that is NOT equivalent to saying that it is beyond the PS3. He merely means that he is pushing the limits of the PS3 and still wants to put more in them.

Um... might want to talk to Jordan then...

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/

Goes beyond PS3...

Wasn't the first thing said about Standard cars is that they were RE-DONE for the PS3 and GT5? I don't remember the exact quote or where it came from, but I'm sure that was said by Kaz or his staff. One video of the standard cars isn't the final product. How many times must people bring up the point that Kaz made? "were working to make the graphics even better up until the game's release" Anyone remember that? I fully expect the cars (premium/standard) to look pretty much the same from the outside when the game releases. Kaz has never given a two-tier system. Of course some will say, 'that's what GT5 is' but those were not his words. He said two TYPES of cars. What the difference between Standard and Premium means is up for grabs, but to say that it's graphics is a little premature IMO.

Direct quote from an OPM interview:

As Yamauchi discusses his game, there's a sense that he'd work on it for another five years if he could. He Proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game but its with a degree of resignation that he confirms only 200 of those are new models for GT5."there are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game," he says. "we have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3 and the 200 Premium cars

There have been a lot of wish washy words back and forth but it ultimately comes down to... they are GT4 or PSP assets at heart.

I am sorry but at this point any doubt is pretty much wishful thinking... I have no doubt they will be working on the game overall until the last minute, but to turn the 800 standard cars into premium equivalents... I suggest you not set yourself up for that level of dissapointment and open yourself up to a more realistic view.

 

[Tornado]

But... there aren't over 800 cars in GT4 and GTPSP...

AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!

 

[Goshin2568]

GTPSP has around 850.... And it has all of GT4, so it's safe to say that the GTPSP list is pretty much what our standard car list will look like.

 

[Akira AC]

GTPSP has around 850.... And it has all of GT4, so it's safe to say that the GTPSP list is pretty much what our standard car list will look like.

Disagree because several cars from GTPSP(at best 20)are confirmed as premium like:

GT-R
mclaren slr
enzo ferrari
F1 2007
bugatty veyron
probably pagani zonda

among other GT cars like the asl garaia(sorry if I didn't spell it right)
maybe some standard plus will be some new mazdas or kias,or something like that,like the lacetty or the liana from top gear,probably will be in the game but KY is not stupid and he wont make them premium(or at least is what I think) .

 

[Goshin2568]

ok.... 850 - 20 = 830, 830 > 800, and Kaz said 800 +
So how are you disagreeing?

 

[hardvibes]

[...]several cars from GTPSP(at best 20)are confirmed as premium like:

GT-R
mclaren slr
enzo ferrari
F1 2007
bugatty veyron
probably pagani zonda

Pagani and RUF must be premium

 

[Akira AC]

ok.... 850 - 20 = 830, 830 > 800, and Kaz said 800 +
So how are you disagreeing?

No sorry I miss write that,I do agree but I think we should be watching at least 10 to 20 new standards(probably)

BTW:I said I will not reply to this thread but it seems that become civilized now.

 

[Tornado]

GTPSP has around 850.... And it has all of GT4, so it's safe to say that the GTPSP list is pretty much what our standard car list will look like.

GTPSP officially has 830. It actually has the same, if not less than, GT4 (710-720, ballpark).

If the Standard car list is essentially going to be the same as GTPSP, I will be furious. There was no reason for PD to pull that nonsense with that game, and GT5 having the same crap is simply pathetic.

 

[Goshin2568]

To be honest though, the number of unconfirmed premiums is shrinking. We start off with ~200. -74 for GT5P, thats ~125. Then, - however many premiums we know of, (I'm not sure of the number, lets say, 35.) That leaves around 90 suprise cars. Now, in GT's likeness, obviously 30-50% of those will be some variation of Toyota, Honda, or Nissan, so really, only about 40 unconfirmed, non-japanese cars.

And, we know that all cars that have never been in GT will be premium, so all standards are GT4/GTPSP. So basically, we have a pretty good idea of GT5's master car list, save about 90 or so.

GTPSP officially has 830. It actually has the same, if not less than, GT4 (710-720, ballpark).

If the Standard car list is essentially going to be the same as GTPSP, I will be furious. There was no reason for PD to pull that nonsense with that game, and GT5 having the same crap is simply pathetic.

We allready know that.

 

[CoolColJ]

There are actually 2000 premiums, they just left the zero out

 

[eSZee]

GTPSP officially has 830. It actually has the same, if not less than, GT4 (710-720, ballpark).

If the Standard car list is essentially going to be the same as GTPSP, I will be furious. There was no reason for PD to pull that nonsense with that game, and GT5 having the same crap is simply pathetic.

The official info does state 830 standard cars, 170 premium.