Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

If you say it looks to be a premium model. It probably is.
It's had the premium make over done properly.
The other 800+ unfortunately have not made the cut due to time constraints.

 

[Strittan]

We seen the Castrol Supra from the 90's in the first of GT games, now it's in GT5 and it looks to be a premium car. My point is, if they can do it with a car that was from one of the first GT games, I don't see why the Standard cars could not get the same 'upscaled' treatment, but not so much on the 'premium level'.

See? This is why you're being "pushed", because you really don't know what you're talking about.

There are many premium cars that have been in previous GT games, so what's your point?

 

[Tenacious D]

Meh, I know what you're saying, and I've never really argued the overall look. But you keep using it as an argument when the point a few of us are trying to make is that model-wise, they're not current gen. They are one-piece models; the standard for numerous titles this generation is multi-piece models.

Uhm... okay, you got me there.

I know for instance that the... blue car that collides hard into the wall in the E3 trailer is only banged up a bit - an Evo? Some of us are wondering about that because it looks like a Premium car, and yet it suffers only minor damage. Maybe as with most racing games other than Forza, only race cars can take serious damage.

...all that said... congrats on that painting win. You have more patience than I, sir!

I have no life, obviously. I'll have to say that the stylized gauntlet holding a sword with a blade of lightning is probably one of the ugliest pieces of car art I've ever seen. But then, I tried to copy it and then it didn't quite look ugly anymore...

I'm hoping this is the reaction we get from the Standard cars when we get GT5. I've been busy over the past week or so, racing those "Standard" cars in GT4, saving replays and snapping pics like a mad cub reporter. And... wow, I think you guys are selling these car models short. Yes, as Dravonic pointed out, some of the cars have ugly facets. The Opel Speedster is another car with very few polygons, for whatever reason. I suspect it wasn't finished in time and dropped in as is.

But the rest of them... when you let Photo Mode get hold of those car models, something magic happens.

At some point, I intend to quit racing and pic snapping and share with you guys some of my discoveries. Maybe it's because I'm a hobbyist photographer and I can coax a little something extra from a subject, but a lot of my pics really shock me at the level of quality hidden in the GT4 game engine. By this weekend, I intend to take advantage of the GT Planet gallery and share some goodies with the class. I might add some images from a certain other game of this generation to show just how overly picky some of you are.

Oh, and just to remind everyone, a big part of the problem of only having 200 some odd Premium cars is because SONY leaned on Kaz to produce GT PSP in the middle of work on GT5. And it was such a headache, the entire team has to drop GT5 to work on it.

 

[freshseth83]

I just stated my point. What didn't you get about it? I see people here basing their opinions off of one video with screen captures of that video saying that Standard cars are sub-par. But in reality what PD did was take a car from a previous GT game just like the standard cars are, and made it beautiful. So why is it so out of the question that standard cars are not redone? Just because they aren't 'premium' doesn't mean they aren't redone. No interview has he said they're 'ported', 'brought over' 'redone' 'beautifully recreated' is the words that have been used.

 

[Dravonic]

I just stated my point. What didn't you get about it? I see people here basing their opinions off of one video with screen captures of that video saying that Standard cars are sub-par. But in reality what PD did was take a car from a previous GT game just like the standard cars are, and made it beautiful. So why is it so out of the question that standard cars are not redone? Just because they aren't 'premium' doesn't mean they aren't redone. No interview has he said they're 'ported', 'brought over' 'redone' 'beautifully recreated' is the words that have been used.

They are not redone because the pictures prove they are not. Just like a picture can prove the moon's surface is covered in craters, the sky is blue, Saturn has rings, the Earth is round, etc... a picture can prove standard cars are not redone.

 

[Strittan]

I just stated my point. What didn't you get about it? I see people here basing their opinions off of one video with screen captures of that video saying that Standard cars are sub-par. But in reality what PD did was take a car from a previous GT game just like the standard cars are, and made it beautiful. So why is it so out of the question that standard cars are not redone? Just because they aren't 'premium' doesn't mean they aren't redone. No interview has he said they're 'ported', 'brought over' 'redone' 'beautifully recreated' is the words that have been used.

If you want to stay blind, then fine. My eyes are wide open and I can see a big difference between standard and premium cars. Standard cars are ported from GT4 and we don't need an interview to prove it, because just looking at the video and comparison images is enough.

For the last time. The only reason standard cars look better than in GT4 is because they're now in HD (of course) and use GT5 reflections.

Still don't get it?

 

[steve30x]

I'll follow instructions based upon the rules and guidelines. It's just sad some are being 'pushed' by other posters. It is not something one responds all that well to. All that aside, I'm just trying to make a point.

Im in the same boat. I get so annoyed with some peoples answers on here. Some people asking me if I'm blind or people assuming I dont know how programming or 3D modelling works. But I am hanging in there and biting my tongue. After all I am thick and dont know anything lol

ps. Just one example of an unpleasent reply is the post avove this.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I just stated my point. What didn't you get about it? I see people here basing their opinions off of one video with screen captures of that video saying that Standard cars are sub-par. But in reality what PD did was take a car from a previous GT game just like the standard cars are, and made it beautiful. So why is it so out of the question that standard cars are not redone? Just because they aren't 'premium' doesn't mean they aren't redone. No interview has he said they're 'ported', 'brought over' 'redone' 'beautifully recreated' is the words that have been used.

Im going to respond to your post with a little more respect compared to the other members as I feel you have been harshly treated.

You know it is still possible that the standard cars will be tweaked by PD and won't be just HD GT4 models. Nobody on here knows exactly what PD have done with these standard cars and screen captures or photos doesn't prove a thing. I've seen developers release screenshots of cars prior to release but upon actually playing the game the reality has been quiet different.

I personally would be amazed if PD just throw in HD GT4 cars especially considering they spent 2yrs developing some of the tracks. Why ruin all this hard work on the tracks by using HD GT4 cars. So im personally hoping PD have tweaked these GT4 cars and we won't know if this is the case until we actually get to play GT5.

Im in the same boat. I get so annoyed with some peoples answers on here. Some people asking me if I'm blind or people assuming I dont know how programming or 3D modelling works. But I am hanging in there and biting my tongue. After all I am thick and dont know anything lol

Yes we have many in this thread who are programming experts. Some of these members should ask PD for a job due to the expert knowledge and programming skills lol.

 

[freshseth83]

@Strittin- Nope, I get exactly what you're saying the point is it's you saying it, and not Kaz, not PD. I'm not an optimist with everything, but with GT I am. I'm not putting out logic though. I'm also not basing my opinions on standard cars from one lousy video which featured some shots people used a screen capture for and blew it up to make a comparison to GT4. GT5 is not GT4. If the cars are updated, and that's what he said, then they will be. That's what I'm basing my opinion off of. Sure the cars didn't look too much better than they did in GT4, but we have to remember that was a video/trailer, from a demo, that wasn't even 5 minutes long.

 

[steve30x]

You know it is still possible that the standard cars will be tweaked by PD and won't be just HD GT4 models. Nobody on here knows exactly what PD have done with these standard cars and screen captures or photos doesn't prove a thing. I've seen developers release screenshots of cars prior to release but upon actually playing the game the reality has been quiet different.

I personally would be amazed if PD just throw in HD GT4 cars especially considering they spent 2yrs developing some of the tracks. Why ruin all this hard work on the tracks by using HD GT4 cars. So im personally hoping PD have tweaked these GT4 cars and we won't know if this is the case until we actually get to play GT5.

I agree with you on PD touching up the GT4 cars. I am not saying they will be brought up to premium standards , but there is a possibllity they will round off the jaggies and non rounded areas and maybe upgrade the skins. I'm not saying the painted shutlines will dissapear though.

Lets see who is the firdt person who will assume that I am trying to say that the standards will be brought up to premium standards again.

Yes we have many in this thread who are programming experts. Some of these members should ask PD for a job due to the expert knowledge and programming skills lol.

Im no programming expert but I do have some experience in programming (watch people ask what experience I have just to bash me) And I have read a few articles on 3D modelling. So I do have a clue. I just dont see and reason for so many unpleasent replies in this thread.

 

[Scaff]

So I do have a clue. I just dont see and reason for so many unpleasent replies in this thread.

Nor do the staff, which is why this thread is still on the verge of being closed.

The worst responses are deleted and the members responsible spoken to, as such the staff are more than capable of dealing with it.

So can we get the thread back on topic (for what feels like the millionth time of asking) and if anyone has an issue with how a member is posting then use the report button rather than discussing it in thread (and dragging the thread off-topic).

Either that or I can lock the thread (which is still very much an option right now).


Scaff

 

[GTXLR]

@Strittin- Nope, I get exactly what you're saying the point is it's you saying it, and not Kaz, not PD. I'm not an optimist with everything, but with GT I am. I'm not putting out logic though. I'm also not basing my opinions on standard cars from one lousy video which featured some shots people used a screen capture for and blew it up to make a comparison to GT4. GT5 is not GT4. If the cars are updated, and that's what he said, then they will be. That's what I'm basing my opinion off of. Sure the cars didn't look too much better than they did in GT4, but we have to remember that was a video/trailer, from a demo, that wasn't even 5 minutes long.

What has been reported:
As Yamauchi discusses his game, There's a sense that he'd work on it for another five years if he could.

He Proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game, but it's with a degree of resignation that he confirms only 200 of those are new models for Gran Turismo 5.

"There are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game, " he says. "we have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3 and 200 premium cars."

 

[Snaeper]

@Strittin- Nope, I get exactly what you're saying the point is it's you saying it, and not Kaz, not PD. I'm not an optimist with everything, but with GT I am. I'm not putting out logic though. I'm also not basing my opinions on standard cars from one lousy video which featured some shots people used a screen capture for and blew it up to make a comparison to GT4. GT5 is not GT4. If the cars are updated, and that's what he said, then they will be. That's what I'm basing my opinion off of. Sure the cars didn't look too much better than they did in GT4, but we have to remember that was a video/trailer, from a demo, that wasn't even 5 minutes long.

For me anyways, I feel it's enough proof that I'll be expecting freshened GT4 cars as Standard models. Low expectations in these situations always result in a win/win (You're either right and happy, or you're wrong and REALLY happy.)

Also, do recall that early GT5 videos featured what were essentially GT4 models in HD.



I wouldn't be surprised if this was the original direction they were heading for with GT5... before someone shifted gears and we got Gran Turismo HD Concept. Of course, they looked back and thought... "Well why not just add the two on top of each other?"

 

[Dravonic]

Im no programming expert but I do have some experience in programming (watch people ask what experience I have just to bash me) And I have read a few articles on 3D modelling. So I do have a clue. I just dont see and reason for so many unpleasent replies in this thread.

Do you know what a 3D model wireframe is? I'm not asking this to offend you, I just need to know this so I can move on with the explanation.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Do you know what a 3D model wireframe is? I'm not asking this to offend you, I just need to know this so I can move on with the explanation.

A wire frame model is a visual presentation of a three dimensional or physical object used in 3D computer graphics. It is created by specifying each edge of the physical object where two mathematically continuous smooth surfaces meet, or by connecting an object's constituent vertices using straight lines or curves. The object is projected onto the computer screen by drawing lines at the location of each edge.

Using a wire frame model allows visualization of the underlying design structure of a 3D model. Traditional 2-dimensional views and drawings can be created by appropriate rotation of the object and selection of hidden line removal via cutting planes.

Since wireframe renderings are relatively simple and fast to calculate, they are often used in cases where a high screen frame rate is needed (for instance, when working with a particularly complex 3D model, or in real-time systems that model exterior phenomena). When greater graphical detail is desired, surface textures can be added automatically after completion of the initial rendering of the wireframe. This allows the designer to quickly review changes or rotate the object to new desired views without long delays associated with more realistic rendering.

 

[steve30x]

Do you know what a 3D model wireframe is? I'm not asking this to offend you, I just need to know this so I can move on with the explanation.

Yes I do. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzesxYUk090 or http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=GPgvUYwMEDw&feature=related

 

[Dravonic]

Yes I do. .

Great so look at this picture, forget the textures, the lighting, the reflections, everything else, and imagine it's a wireframe:

Considering only the rear view mirror there, even though the one from the GT5 standard trailer is a bit blurry what makes this harder, don't you agree the wireframe in both would look exactly the same?

 

[Strittan]

I've modeled a couple of car bodies which were supposed to be mods for GTA Vice City and San Andreas, but never completed a car.

This is a wireframe (this model is not made by me though)...

Great so look at this picture, forget the textures, the lighting, the reflections, everything else, and imagine it's a wireframe:

Considering only the rear view mirror there, even though the one from the GT5 standard trailer is a bit blurry what makes this harder, don't you agree the wireframe in both would look exactly the same?

Yes, they are, but that's what people don't seem to understand, that the standard cars are direct ports from GT4. These images are not enough for them, because they need Kaz himself to say it.

 

[GTXLR]

Sneaper that actually was always the plan for the next GT at the beginning of the PS3 life cycle, except it was going to be based upon a core game with many Micro transactions to build it up.

That concept was universaly panned and it was the micro transactions that were cast aside, extra time has been taken to develop many aspects of GT in newer fresher directions, but it seems with PD's constant knowledge of the lengthy modelling process, that hasnt changed the concept of a two tier game structure.

From the initial game concept from way back im sure Kaz is fairly happy with the overall product that will be GT5, given that he would rather have more time to model the rest of the cars to premium quality, but realising that could be some years away to being accomplished, it would be foolish to hold the game back for that reason alone anymore, given all the other develpoments GT5 will offer the series.

 

[steve30x]

Considering only the rear view mirror there, even though the one from the GT5 standard trailer is a bit blurry what makes this harder, don't you agree the wireframe in both would look exactly the same?

Yes I do. Also looking at that mirror it doesnt look like it is .attached to the car

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Hm, somehow I think that PD should have named those categories with something else then "standard" or "premium".

Just imagine that those standard cars were named "GT Classics" and the premiums "GT Premium".
Then most people would count those standard cars as a addition to the game for the fans.

 

[GTXLR]

Hm, somehow I think that PD should have named those categories with something else then "standard" or "premium".

Just imagine that those standard cars were named "GT Classics" and the premiums "GT Premium".
Then most people would count those standard cars as a addition to the game for the fans.

👍

 

[Dravonic]

Yes I do. Also looking at that mirror it doesnt look like it is .attached to the car

Well from this angle it kinda doesn't but thankfully it is.

Anyway, moving on to the full shot, again only considering the wireframe:



(Click for larger pics)

Focusing on some of the red areas there, and if you're feeling adventurous even other areas of the car, do you see anything that indicates the wireframes of the cars in these two shots are different?

 

[Strittan]

Hm, somehow I think that PD should have named those categories with something else then "standard" or "premium".

Just imagine that those standard cars were named "GT Classics" and the premiums "GT Premium".
Then most people would count those standard cars as a addition to the game for the fans.

Well, I don't blame them. They probably thought everyone would understand either way, because I think it's been pretty damn obvious since I saw the standard car video for the first time.

 

[steve30x]

Well from this angle it kinda doesn't but thankfully it is.

Anyway, moving on to the full shot, again only considering the wireframe:

Focusing on some of the red areas there, and if you're feeling adventurous even other areas of the car, do you see anything that indicates the wireframes of the cars in these two shots are different?

I do agree they look the same but one part that looks slightly better is the vent on the side of the C5r which has slightly better debth. I do agree that there is a 99% chance that the standard cars are from GT4.

One point I am trying to put out is that PD might round off those rough edges , I am not expecting the painted shutlines to disappear and maybe make the skins slightly better. I wont expect the cars to be brought up to premium standards

Saying that I am not disappointed with the quality of the standard cars. Thats my little opinion though.

 

[Strittan]

I do agree they look the same but one part that looks slightly better is the vent on the side of the C5r which has slightly better debth. I do agree that there is a 99% chance that the standard cars are from GT4.

One point I am trying to put out is that PD might round off those rough edges , I am not expecting the painted shutlines to disappear and maybe make the skins slightly better. I wont expect the cars to be brought up to premium standards

Saying that I am not disappointed with the quality of the standard cars. Thats my little opinion though.

You do realize that this means they have to increase the poly count, right? And for 800 cars that would take years.

 

[steve30x]

Yes I know that.

 

[Dravonic]

I do agree they look the same but one part that looks slightly better is the vent on the side of the C5r which has slightly better debth. I do agree that there is a 99% chance that the standard cars are from GT4.

One point I am trying to put out is that PD might round off those rough edges , I am not expecting the painted shutlines to disappear and maybe make the skins slightly better. I wont expect the cars to be brought up to premium standards

Saying that I am not disappointed with the quality of the standard cars. Thats my little opinion though.

Yes the vent in the GT4 pic appears to be flat but the slightly different angle and GT4's lighting engine are to blame. You can easily see it's modeled if you fire up your GT4 and take a look at the car in the showroom.

Now, I'm actually surprised that PD didn't attempt to smooth the car at all. Specially since it's not hard to do. Can they do it for the final game? Sure, but since they didn't do it yet I really doubt they can do it now. The time to do it has come and gone.

You do realize that this means they have to increase the poly count, right? And for 800 cars that would take years.

Not really, there are various tools to smooth 3D meshes. Of course they won't magically look like premiums but they sure can quite easily get a lot smoother than they are now. Not that it can easily be done for 800 cars in a couple of months though. As stated above, that's something they should have done during those 5 years of development.

 

[freshseth83]

i don't think the demo shown of the standard cars is going to be relative to the finished game. demos are just that, trailers are just that. I'll play with the 'standards' regardless, because there are cars that I love. I just can't wait to play GT5. I'm still thinking that premiums hold more to the name than just a cockpit view of some improved graphics. Hoping we'll find out more come this next game show.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Wow, people STILL going on about standard v premium...