Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Spagetti69]

I'm not bothered about the graphics. As long as the physics are ok. One note about the physics, is that obviously PD were pressed for time throughout the whole development process. I hope they have had time to assess each car. No worrys about the premiums i'm sure there fine.
800+ others though would take alot of testing and maybe 1 or 2 might slip through the net.

Edit. Thinking about it, I don't think I'll be driving them anyhow. Shame.

 

[Snaeper]

Wow, people STILL going on about standard v premium...

I concur.

 

[Goldrusher]

Hm, somehow I think that PD should have named those categories with something else then "standard" or "premium".

Just imagine that those standard cars were named "GT Classics" and the premiums "GT Premium".
Then most people would count those standard cars as a addition to the game for the fans.

Bu...but... they just changed the name from Classic to Standard.

 

[Conquerer]

Wow, people STILL going on about standard v premium...

That's what this topic is about... Of course people are still going on about it. What else do you expect in here?

 

[Spagetti69]

Well it was standard vs forza for awhile.........

 

[Strittan]

Not really, there are various tools to smooth 3D meshes. Of course they won't magically look like premiums but they sure can quite easily get a lot smoother than they are now. Not that it can easily be done for 800 cars in a couple of months though. As stated above, that's something they should have done during those 5 years of development.

Appearently I have much to learn. Please tell me how this can be done without adding polygons.

Also, if they spent time making the standard cars look better, the premium cars would not look as incredible as they do.

 

[shawtyoner]

The one thing that worries me most about the standard models is the "standard sound". I can live with the graphics not being up to par with the premiums, but after watching that video again, uh oh.

 

[Dan_]

This debate will vanish after gamescom, specially if they show weather and some other unseen tracks, the reason behind the fuss in this thread is the lack of anything else to talk about. Just that.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how will the Countach LP400 look like, of course it won't have an interior, but still, maybe if they modeled the body to a Premium level, since it's a whole new model, modelling it to GT4 standards wouldn't be a smart decision, since you can model the exterior to premium spec and then add a interior in a later edition. Confusing.

 

[Strittan]

Anyway, I'm just wondering how will the Countach LP400 look like, of course it won't have an interior, but still, maybe if they modeled the body to a Premium level, since it's a whole new model, modelling it to GT4 standards wouldn't be a smart decision, since you can model the exterior to premium spec and then add a interior in a later edition. Confusing.

I find this very odd as well. Why would they decide to make the Lamborghini Countach but only in GT4's level of detail?

Something tells me the Countach will be available as premium as well, although I don't know why they would make a car both standard and premium.

 

[trk29]

I find this very odd as well. Why would they decide to make the Lamborghini Countach but only in GT4's level of detail?

Something tells me the Countach will be available as premium as well, although I don't know why they would make a car both standard and premium.

I agree it is a new car to the series, doesn't make since that it would be a standard.

 

[Luminis]

I agree it is a new car to the series, doesn't make since that it would be a standard.

Well, what should PD do about the few cars that were introduced in GTPSP? add a third tier of cars, 'Super Standards', that feature the exterior quality of a premium car, but not the interior quality/any interior at all?

I don't know why they didn't just make it a premium, but I'd rather have those few cars as standards than a third tier...

 

[shadynader]

Ever thought they may have already made it for GT4 and couldn't secure the licence? or just to play in the office on GT4? Just because it showed up in GTSP doesn't mean it was built for it.

 

[Strittan]

Ever thought they may have already made it for GT4 and couldn't secure the licence? or just to play in the office on GT4? Just because it showed up in GTSP doesn't mean it was built for it.

No, doesn't make sense to spend time on something they may not be allowed to put into the game.

 

[shadynader]

Well i have seen porsches in the past.... Who knows how close they were to securing the licence for GT4? Or, Are you saying if you were KY you wouldn't get one of your employees to model cars for your own personal use? I know i would. Either way its possible

 

[Shinu]

Appearently I have much to learn. Please tell me how this can be done without adding polygons.

Also, if they spent time making the standard cars look better, the premium cars would not look as incredible as they do.

Yes, those tools would up the poly count (you must remember that GT4 and GTPSP cars has a lot lower poly count, so it would be fine, they got room for improvement), but those tools do it partly automatically.

Belive me its all-ways easier to improve (and faster) then make a low poly model with most of the detail still there .

 

[Strittan]

Well i have seen porsches in the past.... Who knows how close they were to securing the licence for GT4?

You've seen Porsches? Screenshot please...

 

[trk29]

Ever thought they may have already made it for GT4 and couldn't secure the licence? or just to play in the office on GT4? Just because it showed up in GTSP doesn't mean it was built for it.

I hear what you say sorta like how you could get the Diablo in GT3 through a hack. Maybe the Countach was modeled when they did the Diablo.

 

[scuudz]

Just my thoughts on the issue, and I might get blasted for saying this on here, but its my opinion:

For the majority of the people, GT is just a good racing game. They know it says simulator on the cover, but they don't treat it like one (I'm sure we have all had our experiences with the intellectually-challenged drivers who cut straight across the chicanes time and time again). Atleast in my experience, I've found there to be a lot more of these 'casual' racers out there, than people who know how to race legitimately, and for who having fun while racing doesn't equate to winning the race. The point I'm trying to make is that these casual racers will more than likely use the flashiest, most popular cars in the game, which are probably going to be premium. If one takes a moment, and thinks about it, 200 is a pretty big number of cars to model in such high detail, and still a good number of cars to choose from. So, PD has, imo, taken what the masses like (most popular cars) and made the models of those cars the best in the genre. Yes, it does leave a few of us disappointed due to the lack of cockpit view for the ~800 standard cars, but the fact is you can't please everyone.

Personally, I do not think this is such a big deal because:

1. I use the chase view while racing (but this might change now because I'd like to experience the highly detailed interiors of the premium cars)

2. Most, if not all, of the most popular cars will have all the views anyway.

 

[Dijital Majik]

You've seen Porsches? Screenshot please...

How about a video (911 GT3 from 1:14)?



It was a hidden car.

 

[analog]

Just my thoughts on the issue, and I might get blasted for saying this on here, but its my opinion:

For the majority of the people, GT is just a good racing game. They know it says simulator on the cover, but they don't treat it like one (I'm sure we have all had our experiences with the intellectually-challenged drivers who cut straight across the chicanes time and time again). Atleast in my experience, I've found there to be a lot more of these 'casual' racers out there, than people who know how to race legitimately, and for who having fun while racing doesn't equate to winning the race. The point I'm trying to make is that these casual racers will more than likely use the flashiest, most popular cars in the game, which are probably going to be premium. If one takes a moment, and thinks about it, 200 is a pretty big number of cars to model in such high detail, and still a good number of cars to choose from. So, PD has, imo, taken what the masses like (most popular cars) and made the models of those cars the best in the genre. Yes, it does leave a few of us disappointed due to the lack of cockpit view for the ~800 standard cars, but the fact is you can't please everyone.

Personally, I do not think this is such a big deal because:

1. I use the chase view while racing (but this might change now because I'd like to experience the highly detailed interiors of the premium cars)

2. Most, if not all, of the most popular cars will have all the views anyway.

I will not blast you for it but I don't agree simply for the fact that the most popular cars ( aka supercars/racecars probably ) were always a part in GT, not the main part ( one of the reasons Kaz created the first GT was to include normal cars which no other game covered until then ).
And I don't care which cars are the most popular, I care mostly for the cars I personally like best ( and these include all types, categories and price ranges ) and a lot of those cars I really liked turn out to be Standard.
Even a lot of supercars and racecars ( which I also love ) turn out to be Standard.

The majority of gamers probably didn't even drive or appreciate all the cars available in GT4 ( I did, my memory card contained a 1000 cars ) but the fact Kaz included those cars in the first place and not limit the selection purely to those cars which the majority would only use was what many car enthusiast ( with a wide range of tastes, including me ) appreciated and loved about GT.
That's why this whole issue is so disappointing for many, if we were content with driving Premium cars only and those cars coincidentally being the only cars we loved this whole issue wouldn't be very big.

But we all have different tastes and preferences and our own favourites, who cares what the majority likes ( they probably are indeed well served ) as GT never was about the majority only ( if it was they would only offered supercars and racecars like every other driving game before ).

 

[scuudz]

I agree. I thought it was brilliant that the GT series let us drive and race in cars that we might actually own in real life.

My response to your post would be: PD cares about the majority. If they don't, then SCE definitely cares about the majority. Sure, the majority only want to race in the fastest cars, but that doesnt matter to PD/SCE because the majority are still going to pay $59.99 + tax for the game and thats what is most important to PD/SCE.

A question that arises after reading your post is:

Do we already know which cars are going to be standard and which are going to be premium?

 

[regnar]

We will probably not see those hidden cars unless PD obtains the rights to use them, referring to the 'Standard Cars' the individual Object file (car file, asset some call it) from GT4 will be carried over individually where my guess is that they might get re-mapped, assuming PD keeps their original texture files (which most likely at higher quality's than what was used in the final game) re-assigning the textures with new diffuse, bump & spec maps. They might fix model issues with the individual files as they come in front of them. But most likely just working on the textures to bring them up to GT5 standards. If I remember right some said the GT4 concept game had higher quality textures, but in the final game had slightly lower quality. We could possibly see this also with some GT4 tracks being carried over, since textures are used much more heavily in tracks than polygons are.

Higher quality textures will improve the look, but still no getting around the lower polygon count of 4000 for GT3, GT4 compared to 200,000 for GT5P & GT5.

 

[analog]

I agree. I thought it was brilliant that the GT series let us drive and race in cars that we might actually own in real life.

My response to your post would be: PD cares about the majority. If they don't, then SCE definitely cares about the majority. Sure, the majority only want to race in the fastest cars, but that doesnt matter to PD/SCE because the majority are still going to pay $59.99 + tax for the game and thats what is most important to PD/SCE.

A question that arises after reading your post is:

Do we already know which cars are going to be standard and which are going to be premium?

I didn't say they don't care for the majority, I said they don't only care for the majority and even the majority may be interested or persuaded to try the less obvious cars included ( not only the cars we might actually own but also the cars many never knew existed ).
As for the cars which are Standard or Premium, some are already confirmed to be either S or P but most of the 800 cars which are Standard are believed to be the ones already in GT4/GT-PSP.
And although I get increasingly cynical about this whole situation I don't believe PD is only after your money, they do seem to care and obsessed about supplying a quality product which makes this whole situation so absurd in my opinion at least.

 

[Tornado]

How about a video (911 GT3 from 1:14)?



It was a hidden car.

To this day I still don't quite understand what the crap PD thought they were doing when they included that. The Diablo could probably be viewed as PD trying to get around things, which is fair enough, but a full blown Porsche is just... odd.

 

[Strittan]

To this day I still don't quite understand what the crap PD thought they were doing when they included that. The Diablo could probably be viewed as PD trying to get around things, which is fair enough, but a full blown Porsche is just... odd.

Agreed. I don't Don't think I've seen that Porsche before. What the hell were they on about?

 

[scuudz]

I didn't say they don't care for the majority, I said they don't only care for the majority and even the majority may be interested or persuaded to try the less obvious cars included ( not only the cars we might actually own but also the cars many never knew existed ).
As for the cars which are Standard or Premium, some are already confirmed to be either S or P but most of the 800 cars which are Standard are believed to be the ones already in GT4/GT-PSP.
And although I get increasingly cynical about this whole situation I don't believe PD is only after your money, they do seem to care and obsessed about supplying a quality product which makes this whole situation so absurd in my opinion at least.

I know you didn't say that they don't care. In your previous post, you asked' "Who cares about the majority..." which (to me) implied that GT5 is a game for the few people that really are in love with cars and racing, and not just arcade junkies. And I do agree with this view, I'm sure if you sat KY down in a room and asked him exactly who he was making the game for, he would probably say he's making it for the car enthusiast who loves cars and racing, not the people that just love the big flashy cars. The fact is, however, that it's all about commerce in the end. If the don't sell enough units of GT5, there won't be another GT....no matter how much KY wants to please the car enthusiast.

PD might not be after your money with KY at the helm, but SCE.....I'm not so sure about them

I try not to think about the fact that it has taken so long for GT5 to come out because when I do, I fail to comprehend why they haven't been able to put in everything they wanted to put in in the game. It seems to me that somewhere down the line they got this brainwave of premium cars and then went down that road....it seems like it wasn't always a part of their plans.

IMO, if you can design and build a super-critical power plant in 6 years, you should be able to create a game like GT5 in 6 years. It's all about planning, which I think is where something went wonky at PD or SCE or both.

 

[sudmanster]

For the majority of the people, GT is just a good racing game. They know it says simulator on the cover, but they don't treat it like one (I'm sure we have all had our experiences with the intellectually-challenged drivers who cut straight across the chicanes time and time again). Atleast in my experience, I've found there to be a lot more of these 'casual' racers out there, than people who know how to race legitimately, and for who having fun while racing doesn't equate to winning the race. The point I'm trying to make is that these casual racers will more than likely use the flashiest, most popular cars in the game, which are probably going to be premium. If one takes a moment, and thinks about it, 200 is a pretty big number of cars to model in such high detail, and still a good number of cars to choose from. So, PD has, imo, taken what the masses like (most popular cars) and made the models of those cars the best in the genre. Yes, it does leave a few of us disappointed due to the lack of cockpit view for the ~800 standard cars, but the fact is you can't please everyone.

This is very true. Most people really don't know how to race and they just try to have fun in the game. This is why a lot of people (that I know atleast) don't like racing games. Because some racing games they can't have fun in like simulators such as GT5. They're too used to NFS or other arcade racing games. They don't take the GT series for what it really is, a simulator. I think the GT series belongs to a very exclusive type of people. People that love racing and appreciate simulation rather than just have fun with it. Plus we have amazing graphics than all the other arcade racing games

Having 200+ premium cars is a lot to take in. Some of us won't even use all 200 of them. I think 200 is a good number. The 800 standard cars is a bit overwhelming but I think we'll all get over it. There's always DLC as many have pointed out already.

 

[yellowclone]

Just a little more fuel for the fire, so to say. I love the premiums, but they are not perfect either, and do still have some "squared" off rounded objects.

Look at the picture of the Challenger. Notice the steering wheel. I know in my Challenger, the steering wheel is round, not octogon (or however many sides it has). Also notice that the seat belt is not resting on the seat belt loop behind the driver's should, or on the driver's shoulder. You might have to zoom in to see it better.

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/gran-turismo-5-e3-2010-screenshots-2-4.jpg

*Edit* The stitching on the seats are also not that visible in real life.

 

[scuudz]

I think it looks beautiful. If that's not perfect, an imperfect challenger would do me just fine!

 

[Nero9]

Just a little more fuel for the fire, so to say. I love the premiums, but they are not perfect either, and do still have some "squared" off rounded objects.

Look at the picture of the Challenger. Notice the steering wheel. I know in my Challenger, the steering wheel is round, not octogon (or however many sides it has). Also notice that the seat belt is not resting on the seat belt loop behind the driver's should, or on the driver's shoulder. You might have to zoom in to see it better.

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/gran-turismo-5-e3-2010-screenshots-2-4.jpg

This means one thing only...
Premiums were also dumbed down so the PS3 can handle it.