Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[yellowclone]

I think it looks beautiful. If that's not perfect, an imperfect challenger would do me just fine!

This means one thing only...
Premiums were also dumbed down so the PS3 can handle it.

Don't get me wrong, I think they look amazing. My point was that even the Premium have squared off round edges to an extent.

 

[scuudz]

Well only the real thing can be the real thing

 

[Devedander]

Yes I do. Also looking at that mirror it doesnt look like it is .attached to the car

Such is the way of running out of polys and having to work with what you have. A sudden dramatic change in angle for two relatively flat surfaces when rendered with lighting/reflections often looks harsh and strange and lacks the feeling of continuity.

Of course, evidence that the models are the same.

@Strittin- Nope, I get exactly what you're saying the point is it's you saying it, and not Kaz, not PD. I'm not an optimist with everything, but with GT I am. I'm not putting out logic though. I'm also not basing my opinions on standard cars from one lousy video which featured some shots people used a screen capture for and blew it up to make a comparison to GT4. GT5 is not GT4. If the cars are updated, and that's what he said, then they will be. That's what I'm basing my opinion off of. Sure the cars didn't look too much better than they did in GT4, but we have to remember that was a video/trailer, from a demo, that wasn't even 5 minutes long.

Look I will give this one more try:

Why are some cars from GT4 premium but we expect other cars to be GT4 quality?

Because to make a premium car is time consuming. It almost certainly means starting from scratch (I can't imagine it would be easier to fight the GT4 model every step of the way for all the differences... just fitting an interior into it and modeling body panels individually would be enough to make me start from scratch and make life easier on myself).

It's not like they hit a button or run a program and a GT4 car becomes a premium. So due to time constraints they have selected certain models to give the premium treatment to and it looks pretty much certain the others they have just ported over.

Why is that trailer/demo video and it's screenshots worth anything when Kaz sad he redid the cars for GT5?

When is the last time a demo/video from the official source this close to release wasn't really representative of the overall look... especially from a company like PD who always puts their best foot forward even if it means showing nothing for months? This same argument has been used plenty of time before and it's rarely even a close to reasonable one.

Those who know what they are talking about can see from those videos and screen captures all they need to see. It's like a forensics detective looking at a photo and seeing all the evidence he needs even though as a regular guy you don't understand how he got all that info.

Finally in the quote I showed Kaz says directly that the cars are upscaled models from GT4 and GTPSP... I don't know why you feel that's just "some lousy text" but when Kaz said they were redone for GT5 that is good enough to override all the empiracle evidence we have in front of us.

Upscaled cars from GT4 is exactly what we are all seeing and fits in logically with everything happening.

No one is saying what you would like to see happen is absolutely impossible, but we are all saying there is no evidence to support it and understanding the logistics of it, it's so highly improbable as to be reasonably discarded.

 

[Dan_]

Something tells me the Countach will be available as premium as well, although I don't know why they would make a car both standard and premium.

The only possibility would be modelling the exterior to a premium level, and then ignoring the interior, since the interior takes a lot more of time and effort to model, I presume. Being so, the car would still be considered a Standard model, due to the lack of interior view.

Also, there are two Countachs in GTPSP, one of them is the 25th anniversary model, the final edition, which deserves to be a premium in my understanding, and they didn't show it yet. Fingers crossed.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I know for instance that the... blue car that collides hard into the wall in the E3 trailer is only banged up a bit - an Evo? Some of us are wondering about that because it looks like a Premium car, and yet it suffers only minor damage. Maybe as with most racing games other than Forza, only race cars can take serious damage.

Hmm, this needs to be discussed more, I think (though I guess it probably could go in the damage thread versus this one). Some stills have shown that the Premium race cars are taking a fair amount of damage, or at least much more than the rather unimpressive Evo. Then again, two other Premium street cars (the RX-7 and 370Z) look like they're taking more than the Evo. Maybe the Evo's just a bad example?

I have no life, obviously. I'll have to say that the stylized gauntlet holding a sword with a blade of lightning is probably one of the ugliest pieces of car art I've ever seen. But then, I tried to copy it and then it didn't quite look ugly anymore...

Hey, if we get a livery editor for GT5, I'll be in the same boat. I can only hope I can make money off my paintjobs to at least rationalize the time spent!

But the rest of them... when you let Photo Mode get hold of those car models, something magic happens.

At some point, I intend to quit racing and pic snapping and share with you guys some of my discoveries. Maybe it's because I'm a hobbyist photographer and I can coax a little something extra from a subject, but a lot of my pics really shock me at the level of quality hidden in the GT4 game engine. By this weekend, I intend to take advantage of the GT Planet gallery and share some goodies with the class. I might add some images from a certain other game of this generation to show just how overly picky some of you are.

"Am I being condescending? By the way, condescending means to talk down to."

It's encouraging you'll be joining in on the photo galleries, but you aren't the first person who's dabbled in real-life photography there. Since I've spent the majority of my time on GTP in that particular section, it's really quite easy to spot unedited GT4 images. They aren't impressive, graphics-wise; there's a reason a fair amount of us use Photoshop, lightly or extensively. I suggest you take a look at some of the top galleries (sort by views), because statistically speaking, its very unlikely you've found some secret portion of the game that shows these images at a higher level of quality than what anybody else has already found. Plus, it always looks better in-game.

All that said, GT4 Photomode pictures are still valid comparisons for this talk, since so far the Standards have been those models. The nice thing is that GT5's blurs are far more accurate, so it saves us a lot of time not having to PS a proper blur in. The reflections are high-res, so no more having to fix those either! The only issue, if Standards aren't given higher-res textures by release, is cleaning up muddy textures.

I'm curious about this gallery, though, as a new member is always good

Oh, and just to remind everyone, a big part of the problem of only having 200 some odd Premium cars is because SONY leaned on Kaz to produce GT PSP in the middle of work on GT5. And it was such a headache, the entire team has to drop GT5 to work on it.

I know at one point the whole team was infact working on PSP... but other than that detail, how much do we really know about that situation? I wish they'd reveal more, because as it stands, seeing what PSP became, I still have a hard time believing it should've taken much longer than half a year.

Wireframes, verbatim from Wikipedia

...that doesn't really answer the question?

I find this very odd as well. Why would they decide to make the Lamborghini Countach but only in GT4's level of detail?

Something tells me the Countach will be available as premium as well, although I don't know why they would make a car both standard and premium.

Well, we have one Standard first-gen Camaro, and one Premium. So perhaps, as SrRd has guessed elsewhere, the 25th Anniversary Countach is a Premium? Mind you, I've wondered about how easy it should be to bump the Premium count up quickly by doing different models. There's very little to distinguish those two Camaros, so that could've been easy. The Viper SRT-10 Coupe and ACR, as has already mentioned, both work. The GT-R and Spec-V, too. Perhaps them leaving one Camaro for each tier is a hint that the cars won't be on track together? Who knows.

To this day I still don't quite understand what the crap PD thought they were doing when they included that. The Diablo could probably be viewed as PD trying to get around things, which is fair enough, but a full blown Porsche is just... odd.

...I've always rang it up as the fact Kaz had just bought one himself. Guess the man wanted to drive his baby in his... baby.

 

[paskowitz]

I do recall someone on the PS Blog saying there would a couple of Lamborghinis in GT5. Its more likely that the modern versions will be Premium. For the Gallardo all they have to do for the superleggera is add different wheels, front splitter, side sills, rear diffuser, and spoiler. All of which are small. The interior is basically the same minus the seats and cloth. The Murcielago SV is a little more drastic but again not a huge difference over the base models.

 

[Dravonic]

Appearently I have much to learn. Please tell me how this can be done without adding polygons.

Also, if they spent time making the standard cars look better, the premium cars would not look as incredible as they do.

My bad. I misunderstood you. I was answering to your second sentence, that it would take years. For some reason I thought you were saying it was hard to smooth a car and that's why it would take years. But what you mean is it's hard to smooth 800 cars, and I agree.

 

[gtracedriver]

Im going to respond to your post with a little more respect compared to the other members as I feel you have been harshly treated.

You know it is still possible that the standard cars will be tweaked by PD and won't be just HD GT4 models. Nobody on here knows exactly what PD have done with these standard cars and screen captures or photos doesn't prove a thing. I've seen developers release screenshots of cars prior to release but upon actually playing the game the reality has been quiet different.

I personally would be amazed if PD just throw in HD GT4 cars especially considering they spent 2yrs developing some of the tracks. Why ruin all this hard work on the tracks by using HD GT4 cars. So im personally hoping PD have tweaked these GT4 cars and we won't know if this is the case until we actually get to play GT5.


Yes we have many in this thread who are programming experts. Some of these members should ask PD for a job due to the expert knowledge and programming skills lol.

Well said 👍

It is amazing same thing and same C5R is being discussed

The pre release videos and pics is just an indication. IN fact many time they release bullshots or very high res pics and the game never look like that Standard cars are from previous GT games however it will look amazing going by these slightly better pics garbed from the video





People seem to forget that GT4 was so good for its time:

 

[Devedander]

The pre release videos and pics is just an indication. IN fact many time they release bullshots or very high res pics and the game never look like that

You are correct... PD does seem to have a habbit of releasing things that look better than they turn out to be... but they do not have a habbit of going the other way... almost any company always puts it's best foot forward, PD is an example of that to a fault... they actually show stuff that is so good it isn't even accurate (remember GTPSP cars rendered to a level the PSP simply can't do?).

 

[Dravonic]

This means one thing only...
Premiums were also dumbed down so the PS3 can handle it.

It's called managing the level of detail. A premium car has too many polygons. Because you can't see much of the interior when you're looking from the outside of the car, they remove polygons from the interior since it's pretty much wasted geometry anyway. This allows them to use the polygons they saved, in other things such as another car.

That doesn't mean the car is permanently simplified for use in the PS3, it's only simplified in certain circumstances.

 

[Rodpunisher]

Can I use flickr medium then? It is 640 pixels wide.



I too am amazed at the amount of times things need to be repeated in this thread. So by all means, lets move on:

This one is so apparent that I actually wonder if the real car looks like this:

I found a pic of the Alfa Romeo, resized and edited it just for comparison of the car in game and its real life counterpart. What do you guys think??

 

[kingcars]

Something tells me the Countach will be available as premium as well, although I don't know why they would make a car both standard and premium.

Well we already have examples of cars that are both premium and standard, such as the 69 Camaro SS and Z28, and the 69 Corvette Coupe/Convertible.

Just a little more fuel for the fire, so to say. I love the premiums, but they are not perfect either, and do still have some "squared" off rounded objects.

Look at the picture of the Challenger. Notice the steering wheel. I know in my Challenger, the steering wheel is round, not octogon (or however many sides it has). Also notice that the seat belt is not resting on the seat belt loop behind the driver's should, or on the driver's shoulder. You might have to zoom in to see it better.

There is a HUGE difference between seeing huge flat polygonal squared edges on a Corvette's front fender from a far away, low res shot and seeing small, flat polygonal edges on a steering wheel on a zoomed in, high resolution shot. We don't have to zoom in or look closely to see those issues in standard cars. And those imperfections are on MAJOR details like fenders; in premiums, it's only apparent when REALLY zoomed in and looking at extremely minor details where the polygons are best used in other places anyway, so to me, that's just smart modeling. And btw, that is a GORGEOUS screenshot 👍

 

[Dravonic]

To this day I still don't quite understand what the crap PD thought they were doing when they included that. The Diablo could probably be viewed as PD trying to get around things, which is fair enough, but a full blown Porsche is just... odd.

You can only unlock the porsche with gameshark. Now, gameshark is a memory editor so what this means is:

PD put the porshe in the game for some reason. Maybe they thought they would get the license, maybe Kaz wanted to drive it, whatever. So the car is there, but obviously they can't let the public use it. To stop you from using it they don't give you any way to purchase or obtain the porsche. So it's there but you can't have it. Now, gameshark creates a memory editor to the PS2, someone play around with the memory, finds out there's a porsche there (I have no idea how the guy found out it was there) and edits the memory to put it on your garage. So now you can race it.

Anyway, it's crazy for PD to let this porsche slip into the final version even if, normally, you can't have it. But I don't know if porsche can sue them or anything.

Either way, this is proof PD actually make cars that don't make the final cut. The countach is probably one of them, PD made it back then but was unable to use it. However, now that they can use it in GT5, it was included as a standard.

 

[Devedander]

You can only unlock the porsche with gameshark. Now, gameshark is a memory editor so what this means is:

PD put the porshe in the game for some reason. Maybe they thought they would get the license, maybe Kaz wanted to drive it, whatever. So the car is there, but obviously they can't let the public use it. To stop you from using it they don't give you any way to purchase or obtain the porsche. So it's there but you can't have it. Now, someone creates a memory editor to the PS2, play around with the memory, finds out there's a porsche there (I have no idea how the guy found out it was there) and edits the memory to put it on your garage. So now you can race it.

Anyway, it's crazy for PD to let this porsche slip into the final version even if, normally, you can't have it. But I don't know if porsche can sue them or anything.

Either way, this is proof PD actually make cars that don't make the final cut. The countach is probably one of them, PD made it back then but was unnable to use it. However, now that they can use it in GT5, it was included as a standard.

Quite often games will have code in them that is simply rendered inaccessible. I know back in the day due to storage constraints filesystems for the games were designed in such a way as to be very efficient but difficult to remove stuff from (ie pointers to information would get messed up) and so when a weapon/level/character didn't make the final cut, their code was left in just never made accessible (hot coffee anyone?). I believe similar issues happen today where you wrap up all the assets of a certain kind in a data file and then removing any one of them moves all the remaining ones around and makes pointing to them require correcting... I might be rusty on all that though but it's basically dummieing out stuff http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DummiedOut

I don't think this is considered a license infringement as it was never "used" in the game.

As for how to find it, often you can just dump the data files and search them with a hex editor looking for headers or similar/familiar things that point out what is an asset and what that asset is. Look back at GTPSP and I think that's what they did to find the hidden older GT levels.

 

[Spagetti69]

The Porsche was probably made to show the manufacturer how it would be represented in the game.

 

[gtracedriver]

I found a pic of the Alfa Romeo, resized and edited it just for comparison of the car in game and its real life counterpart. What do you guys think??

It is impossible to tell from that. I think we should wait for release then there will be no need to talk about pics taken from that video, anymore

 

[analog]

I know you didn't say that they don't care. In your previous post, you asked' "Who cares about the majority..." which (to me) implied that GT5 is a game for the few people that really are in love with cars and racing, and not just arcade junkies. And I do agree with this view, I'm sure if you sat KY down in a room and asked him exactly who he was making the game for, he would probably say he's making it for the car enthusiast who loves cars and racing, not the people that just love the big flashy cars. The fact is, however, that it's all about commerce in the end. If the don't sell enough units of GT5, there won't be another GT....no matter how much KY wants to please the car enthusiast.

PD might not be after your money with KY at the helm, but SCE.....I'm not so sure about them

I meant "who cares about the majority" as in saying I think it's irrelevant to me whether a car is popular or not ( as I decide myself what I prefer, regarding any matter not just a game, regardless whether it's popular or not ).
GT always supplied to both the majority and the minority, the variety not always used or appreciated by anyone is one of its greatest assets and the fact this is now devided by a two-tier system instead of all cars being equal makes that the majority is now probably better off anyway ( given your assumption that the majority will only play a small amount of new supercars/racecars which might indeed be the case ).

As for GT being all about commerce, that depends on how you look at things I suppose.
If you regard a game as just another common commodity ( like a TV set or vacuum cleaner, etc. ) the sales will also be dependant on delivering quality which in turn also partly secure, through reputation, good future sales.

You can also view a game like a movie or music album whereby artistic creativity and productivity ( combined to make a subjective quality ) is the main sales argument.
Sure there are purely commercial movies and musicians as well, but in my opinion the best artists offer a genuine piece of art which can also be succesful without "selling out".

I think GT is one of those rare artistic celebrations of a corporate product ( meaning cars ) backed up by a corporate enterprise ( Sony ) without being a blatant and biased promotional tool and with its own vision and integrity.
Which in the way it does things differently than its predecessors, created an original and genuine "piece of art" which became incredibly succesful.
Not doing things which until then seemed the best way to succes but doing things their way which became succesful for just doing it their way.

But succes creates pressure ( by Sony but also the bar being raised by themselves ) and the insane amount of money invested needs ofcourse to be earned back by the sales GT5 will make.
So commercial? Yes no doubt. Only commercial? If they were only commercial they probably weren't having the succes they're having now.
The majority also pay for the content only used by a minority, only wished this fact wasn't displayed so blatantly obvious with Premium and Standard cars.

 

[yellowclone]

There is a HUGE difference between seeing huge flat polygonal squared edges on a Corvette's front fender from a far away, low res shot and seeing small, flat polygonal edges on a steering wheel on a zoomed in, high resolution shot. We don't have to zoom in or look closely to see those issues in standard cars. And those imperfections are on MAJOR details like fenders; in premiums, it's only apparent when REALLY zoomed in and looking at extremely minor details where the polygons are best used in other places anyway, so to me, that's just smart modeling. And btw, that is a GORGEOUS screenshot 👍

I totally agree with you on that. Like I said, I just wanted to throw a little fuel on the fire for debate LOL. I am sure that once you are in the car itself, the wheel will be round, and will have the finger grips that are also lacking in that picture. I just can't wait to get my hands on the final product, and I will drive as many cars in the game that I can (hopefully all at some point), standard or premium. I will also compare driving a real Challenger to the game to see how close it is.

 

[scuudz]

I meant "who cares about the majority" as in saying I think it's irrelevant to me whether a car is popular or not ( as I decide myself what I prefer, regarding any matter not just a game, regardless whether it's popular or not ).
GT always supplied to both the majority and the minority, the variety not always used or appreciated by anyone is one of its greatest assets and the fact this is now devided by a two-tier system instead of all cars being equal makes that the majority is now probably better off anyway ( given your assumption that the majority will only play a small amount of new supercars/racecars which might indeed be the case ).

As for GT being all about commerce, that depends on how you look at things I suppose.
If you regard a game as just another common commodity ( like a TV set or vacuum cleaner, etc. ) the sales will also be dependant on delivering quality which in turn also partly secure, through reputation, good future sales.

You can also view a game like a movie or music album whereby artistic creativity and productivity ( combined to make a subjective quality ) is the main sales argument.
Sure there are purely commercial movies and musicians as well, but in my opinion the best artists offer a genuine piece of art which can also be succesful without "selling out".

I think GT is one of those rare artistic celebrations of a corporate product ( meaning cars ) backed up by a corporate enterprise ( Sony ) without being a blatant and biased promotional tool and with its own vision and intergrity.
Which in the way it does things differently than its predecessors, created an original and genuine "piece of art" which became incredibly succesful.
Not doing things which until then seemed the best way to succes but doing things their way which became succesful for just doing it their way.

But succes creates pressure ( by Sony but also the bar being raised by themselves ) and the insane amount of money invested needs ofcourse to be earned back by the sales GT5 will make.
So commercial? Yes no doubt. Only commercial? If they were only commercial they probably weren't having the succes they're having now.
The majority also pay for the content only used by a minority, only wished this fact wasn't displayed so blatantly obvious with Premium and Standard cars.

Haha I wish it wasn't made so blatantly obvious too. Unfortunately, I am in no position to do anything about it.

I agree with your post. The people at PD are brilliant 'artists', as you put it. Sony 'harnessed' their skills to make a profit. Unfortunately, this puts them in a position of authority. I would like to believe that they have no say it what does/does not go into the game and just let PD do their job, but I think it would be too innocent of me to believe that.

Just like PD and SCE need each other, the majority of the consumers that play with the most popular cars need us (the car/racing enthusiasts) since the vision of GT came about to please the car enthusiast, no doubt.....and we need the majority to buy the game whether they use it as a sim or not, so that SCE and PD can keep churning out pieces of art

 

[kingcars]

I totally agree with you on that. Like I said, I just wanted to throw a little fuel on the fire for debate LOL. I am sure that once you are in the car itself, the wheel will be round, and will have the finger grips that are also lacking in that picture. I just can't wait to get my hands on the final product, and I will drive as many cars in the game that I can (hopefully all at some point), standard or premium. I will also compare driving a real Challenger to the game to see how close it is.

👍 Now if only they'd have an 88 Thunderbird with a '95 Mustang Cobra drivetrain in GT5, I could see how realistic it is .

 

[Ollie1066]

Regarding the Porsche in GT3, I not too sure on this, but does Kaz own that car in real life? Saying this, could he possibly of just created the car on the game for his own use, just a a bit of fun I guess. And also, in that hope the license would come before release

 

[analog]

Regarding the Porsche in GT3, I not too sure on this, but does Kaz own that car in real life? Saying this, could he possibly of just created the car on the game for his own use, just a a bit of fun I guess. And also, in that hope the license would come before release

Yes he does own a Porsche and maybe he did do it just for himself, and maybe we weren't supposed to find out and it backfired and Porsche became angry about using their cars without licence and decided to prolong their exclusive deal with EA..................

 

[kingcars]

Regarding the Porsche in GT3, I not too sure on this, but does Kaz own that car in real life? Saying this, could he possibly of just created the car on the game for his own use, just a a bit of fun I guess. And also, in that hope the license would come before release

That is a good point

 

[Zonda_Guy]

I would love to hear Porsche being in @ Gamescom, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm leaning towards the negative, but do you guys remember this Porsche 918 pic?.....

Forgetful has a theory here that makes sense, but only time will tell:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/...orsche-in-Gran-Turismo-5/m-p/45332316#M450367

 

[Goshin2568]

Umm... Ya, except his theory was relying on Porsche not renewing their license with EA, which they did. So...

 

[Tenacious D]

Hmm, this needs to be discussed more, I think (though I guess it probably could go in the damage thread versus this one). Some stills have shown that the Premium race cars are taking a fair amount of damage, or at least much more than the rather unimpressive Evo. Then again, two other Premium street cars (the RX-7 and 370Z) look like they're taking more than the Evo. Maybe the Evo's just a bad example?

Just a quick OT on this point. Maybe this is the early damage experimentation video. Maybe PD is underselling damage just a bit to wow us with the real deal. So many things about GT5 are wrapped in Chinese puzzles, we may not know many things till we get the game ourselves.

It's encouraging you'll be joining in on the photo galleries, but you aren't the first person who's dabbled in real-life photography there. Since I've spent the majority of my time on GTP in that particular section, it's really quite easy to spot unedited GT4 images. They aren't impressive, graphics-wise; there's a reason a fair amount of us use Photoshop, lightly or extensively. I suggest you take a look at some of the top galleries (sort by views)

Did I mention that my guvmint job is trying to kill my brain? Well, then maybe I'll be one of the top underdogs in the galleria. I know you mentioned using Photoshop previously - which I then promptly forgot. I decided to forego Photoshopping anything, so that I wouldn't be posting something that a kid with just a PS2 couldn't make himself. And for the purpose of this thread, I wanted to showcase what the GT4 engine running on the PS2 could do to improve these car models. I'd like to give some encouragement to those hoping the Standard models won't suck.

I know that for the cockpit guys and those like kingcars who insist that only Premium cars with hundreds of K of polygons will do, that's a pretty hard sell. But for the rest of the class who aren't convinced by the Standard car trailer, maybe I can throw a few daisies for them.

And just to stir things up a bit more, as Ivor and a few others have pointed out, the game isn't done yet. Many times, we've been given a better product in a game than was shown in trailers or in trade show screen grabs. So, who knows what we'll actually be getting?

 

[JDMKING13]

I would love to hear Porsche being in @ Gamescom, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm leaning towards the negative, but do you guys remember this Porsche 918 pic?.....

Forgetful has a theory here that makes sense, but only time will tell:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/...orsche-in-Gran-Turismo-5/m-p/45332316#M450367

Yea man I remember that the person who found that little Nascar info. Everyone was telling him he was wrong In the end he was right we will just have to wait and see huh?

 

[Zonda_Guy]

Yea man I remember that the person who found that little Nascar info. Everyone was telling him he was wrong In the end he was right we will just have to wait and see huh?

Yeah.

*OFF-TOPIC*- JDM didn't know you live in Edison. I live in denville & work at Gamestop in Randolph so I'm not that far from you.

 

[McLaren]

I would love to hear Porsche being in @ Gamescom, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm leaning towards the negative, but do you guys remember this Porsche 918 pic?.....

Forgetful has a theory here that makes sense, but only time will tell:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/t5/...orsche-in-Gran-Turismo-5/m-p/45332316#M450367

It's been brought up before & then went out the window the moment someone pointed out the screen to the right of the track display was an image of a Ferrari from Forza.

 

[kingcars]

I know that for the cockpit guys and those like kingcars who insist that only Premium cars with hundreds of K of polygons will do, that's a pretty hard sell. But for the rest of the class who aren't convinced by the Standard car trailer, maybe I can throw a few daisies for them.

O__o

I'd love to see where I said that.

Do they look better than they do in GT4? Thanks to GT5s better graphics engine, of course they do. Do they look pretty decent ingame? Sure...

...whether or not they look GOOD is up for opinion, but whether or not they're up to TODAYS STANDARDS is a complete other subject.

My posts have been about whether or not they are up to today's standards, not what I think of them in general. 👍