Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[Dravonic]

The official info does state 830 standard cars, 170 premium.

You mean last year info. This year info clearly state 800 standards and 200 premiums.

If you want to know what I think, they did it for GTPSP, they will do it for GT5. Reach the magic number, at all costs.

And I really thought PD was different.

 

[eSZee]

You mean last year info. This year info clearly state 800 standards and 200 premiums.

If you want to know what I think, they did it for GTPSP they will do it for GT5. Reach the magic number, at all costs.

Yeah, sorry.
Actually, while we're nitpicking, it's 800+ standard and 200+ premium.
Before the game was said to have 950+ cars. Then it went to 1000, with a 830/170 split. Now it's at 800+ and 200+ according to the GT site. So the number of premiums has increased while the number of standards has only been modified from 830 to 800+.

 

[freshseth83]

Um... might want to talk to Jordan then...

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/

Goes beyond PS3...



Direct quote from an OPM interview:

As Yamauchi discusses his game, there's a sense that he'd work on it for another five years if he could. He Proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game but its with a degree of resignation that he confirms only 200 of those are new models for GT5."there are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game," he says. "we have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3 and the 200 Premium cars

There have been a lot of wish washy words back and forth but it ultimately comes down to... they are GT4 or PSP assets at heart.

I am sorry but at this point any doubt is pretty much wishful thinking... I have no doubt they will be working on the game overall until the last minute, but to turn the 800 standard cars into premium equivalents... I suggest you not set yourself up for that level of dissapointment and open yourself up to a more realistic view.

So according to what you believe, GT4 which had cars from GT3 and GT2 and GT1 weren't improved any? That's what I'm getting at. Just because they are from GT4, which in turn were from GT3 and GT2 were to believe they won't look awesome? When GT4 dropped it was one of the best looking games up to that point. And it had UPSCALED cars from each of the last GT games. It makes sense to me to think that they redid every car, upscaled is a word used but the truth is they've done this for brought over cars from each rendition.

 

[Goshin2568]

Find a quote then, that says the GT 1,2,3 cars were 'upscaled' to GT4.

 

[gtracedriver]

Of course the standard cars will look far superior to GT4 or GTPSP lol. It already does. People are just nit-picking with some camera angles from that video. Only the disappointing thing is that the polygons are much less and in front of premium it looks bad. I think it is fair to say PD are best in making most accurate car models so that will not change even though the ploygons are less.

I think next gen will be huge jump. All game use the assets of previous game. GT will use the GT5 and GT6 as a reference and probably use the same engine by adding lot more shaders and adding more things to their engine. PS3 uses 256mb DDR from RSX and 256mb XDR @3.2ghz used by cell. Next gen it will be like 1gb I think It will probably be at least 2 times faster than PS3 and have 32cars

 

[Devedander]

So according to what you believe, GT4 which had cars from GT3 and GT2 and GT1 weren't improved any? That's what I'm getting at. Just because they are from GT4, which in turn were from GT3 and GT2 were to believe they won't look awesome? When GT4 dropped it was one of the best looking games up to that point. And it had UPSCALED cars from each of the last GT games. It makes sense to me to think that they redid every car, upscaled is a word used but the truth is they've done this for brought over cars from each rendition.

I believe they brought the car body models and textures over from GT4 intact. In fact that's what Kaz said right there. I think they have certainly done up the wheels though.

And I am not saying the cars are not improved from GT4. Just rendering them at a higher resolution on a system that can handle the textures better is improving them. I am in no way saying we will see pixelated low resolution cars that literally look ripped off the TV screen from playing GT4 running around tracks in GT5.

Now we have run into a lot of problems with people who don't udnerstand how programing and games work and thus can't grasp and undersatnd the acual meaning of that. Not being insulting, just saying.

As for upscaled, upscaling is the process of showing something at a higher resolution. It does not mean they changed the models at all, just that they are now being rendered at a higher resolution than they were previously.

Take GT4, run it in an emulator and at high resoluiton. There you just upscaled the game. Nothing new, no better models or new parts, but it's upscaled.

 

[freshseth83]

So when we see the video of the Audi R8 and the 787B, then we see the Super GT cars from the past games, a big case in point, the Castrol Supra, PREMIUM car or STANDARD? Because they were in GT1 GT2 GT3 GT4, and now in GT5, so they aren't done up to GT5 standards according to you guys? They looked damn near perfect. he said brought over, i can bring over a lot of things, doesn't mean anything like they are the exact same.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GTPSP officially has 830. It actually has the same, if not less than, GT4 (710-720, ballpark).

If the Standard car list is essentially going to be the same as GTPSP, I will be furious. There was no reason for PD to pull that nonsense with that game, and GT5 having the same crap is simply pathetic.

To be honest though, the number of unconfirmed premiums is shrinking. We start off with ~200. -74 for GT5P, thats ~125. Then, - however many premiums we know of, (I'm not sure of the number, lets say, 35.) That leaves around 90 suprise cars. Now, in GT's likeness, obviously 30-50% of those will be some variation of Toyota, Honda, or Nissan, so really, only about 40 unconfirmed, non-japanese cars.

And, we know that all cars that have never been in GT will be premium, so all standards are GT4/GTPSP. So basically, we have a pretty good idea of GT5's master car list, save about 90 or so.

My count on the Premium Car List has us hovering with less than that now. We're looking at 60+ unknown new cars to the series. This is what's been bothering me more about GT post-GT4; they spread out far and wide for that, really sampling just about every era and portion of the globe that might appeal to enthusiasts. They also hold an industry record for the amount of clone cars to pad the car count. The new-to-the-series cars so far unveiled have all been fairly obvious choices, IMO; it's great we're getting the the Italian supercars now, but so far there hasn't been nearly as many unique-to-the-series additions, like GT4. Sure, we're getting GT4's lineup (again), but the additions to the series just aren't as far-ranging as previous iterations, to me. There have been an awful lot of interesting new cars just in the time between GT4 and GT5; more than the unknown amount left to be unveiled for this game, for sure. Discounting the Standards (since they're carryover from a last-gen game), the current-gen model lineup is going to be the first GT ever that doesn't have the most variety of its genre.

I'm hoping for a lot of very, very unexpected reveals with that last bit of the car list still in the dark. Something that more actively represents this encyclopedia we hear so much about. And seeing that a good chunk of PSP's car list has a Premium counterpart in GT5... I suppose there should be some brand-new Standards as well...

Find a quote then, that says the GT 1,2,3 cars were 'upscaled' to GT4.

It's safe to say the PS1 games' assets weren't, since they weren't incredibly accurate compared to what was possible on PS2. The MA70 Supra is a good example of that. However, GT3 cars were carried over to GT4, maybe with small changes. The C5R and Motorsports Elise are the two easiest examples, they look the same between games. I don't really see much of a problem with that though as it was on the same system, and it was understood GT4 would follow the series' tradition of having the even-numbered games building off the foundation of their predecessors.

 

[Devedander]

So when we see the video of the Audi R8 and the 787B, then we see the Super GT cars from the past games, a big case in point, the Castrol Supra, PREMIUM car or STANDARD? Because they were in GT1 GT2 GT3 GT4, and now in GT5, so they aren't done up to GT5 standards according to you guys? They looked damn near perfect. he said brought over, i can bring over a lot of things, doesn't mean anything like they are the exact same.

Wow... we have the pictures, we have the up close comparisons showing that's exactly what it is and then we have the quote saying that's what happened...

I am not saying JUST because they were in previous GT games, I am saying because they were in GT4 AND we can see with our own eyes AND because kaz said that's what happened...

Denial runs deeper than I thought.

Honestly I just don't think you understand the technical aspects well enough to comprehend the point I am making.

 

[freshseth83]

Wow... we have the pictures, we have the up close comparisons showing that's exactly what it is and then we have the quote saying that's what happened...

I am not saying JUST because they were in previous GT games, I am saying because they were in GT4 AND we can see with our own eyes AND because kaz said that's what happened...

Denial runs deeper than I thought.

You didn't answer the question, you just threw in your smacktalk to act like you're a cool guy or something, I'm not sure what your problem is. I asked a question. Are the 787B and Castrol Supra featured in GT5 vids so far, premium cars or standard? What "pictures do we have" and "up close comparisons" that you speak of that show the final game? Were all speculating here, but my question serves a point. To me, you're just another one of those smart asses who thinks they're a Mr. know-it-all, but in actuality you know jack. So again, answer my question. I'll give it to you one more time- and this is for everyone. Are the Mazda 787B and Castrol Tom's Supra- which were in GT games (GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4) previously- standard or premium cars? Because if they are premium, it goes to show that no one here can say "GT4 cars are just ports"

 

[JDMKING13]

You didn't answer the question, you just threw in your sh<B></B>ittalk to act like you're a cool guy or something, I'm not sure what your problem is. I asked a question. Are the 787B and Castrol Supra featured in GT5 vids so far, premium cars or standard? What "pictures do we have" and "up close comparisons" that you speak of that show the final game? You're another one of those smart asses who thinks they're a mr. know-it-all, but in actuality you know jacksh<B></B>it. So again, answer my question. I'll give it to you one more time- and this is for everyone. Are the Mazda 787B and Castrol Tom's Supra- which were in GT games (GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4) previously- standard or premium cars? Because if they are premium, it goes to show that no one here can say "GT4 cars are just ports"

They have it list as premium, but i remember some talk about the 787B might be standard.

 

[Devedander]

You didn't answer the question, you just threw in your ****talk to act like you're a cool guy or something, I'm not sure what your problem is. I asked a question. Are the 787B and Castrol Supra featured in GT5 vids so far, premium cars or standard? What "pictures do we have" and "up close comparisons" that you speak of that show the final game? You're another one of those smart asses who thinks they're a mr. know-it-all, but in actuality you know jack****. So again, answer my question. I'll give it to you one more time- and this is for everyone. Are the Mazda 787B and Castrol Tom's Supra which were in GT games previously standard or premium cars? Because if they are premium, it goes to show that no one here can say "GT4 cars are just ports"

Post the pics you want compared...

And can we please drop the "it's not the final game" stuff? Yes we all know the game hasn't been released yet and technically almost anything is possible but nothing within reason makes any of our observations thus far even likely questionable.

Unless PD have broken with all tradition and standards on such and released very ugle media from very dated builds with NO mention or disclaimer that it was such (and to note, every time video gets released that isn't living up to expectations it's brought up taht it might be from an old build... and I don't think as of yet that has ever been shown to actually be the case) or are going to miraculously build 800 standard cars up noteably in teh remaining 2 months or so they have to actually work on stuff (when they haven't gotten close in 5 years) then what we are seeing is reasonably indicative of what the final product will be.

And what pictures and comparisons? If you have to ask you need to do more homework... it's been drilled into the ground with comparison and lines and highlights drawn showing exactly what we are talking about. The models vertexes clearly show in the exact same places as their gt4 counterparts which makes them the same models.

And as for your last part, it's entirely possible a model that existed in GT4 has been chosen to be be completely done as a premium. I am not saying every car that was in GT4 will absolutely have to be a standard and low quality car in GT5, I am saing standard cars in GT5 are ported assets from GT4 or GTPSP... which is exactly what Kaz said himself.

As for what my problem is, we have rung 120 pages out of this thread because people won't see the obvious and keep demanding more and more "proof"... we pick apart every detail available and the final straw, KY himself is quoted as saying that's what happened and we still have people like you who, I honestly just don't think really undersatnd the process of modeling cars and programing, come along and throw out yet more silly demands, paraphrase us in ways that don't mean at all what we are saying (further showing you don't understand what we are talking about) and then throw out the catch all "but it's not a final product!".

You know I can't prove the moon isn't made out of cheese, I haven't actually been there myself... but any reasonable person with the evidence given is happy to accept that it isn't. What you are doing is the equivalent of a 3rd grader walking into a debate between star gazers and space enthusiasts and telling them you don't believe the moon isn't made of cheese and here are a bunch of reasons why.

 

[freshseth83]

It's rhetorical. If you don't know the difference, YOU need to do your homework. I edited the post, I asked a question for a legitimate reason. Those cars appear to be Premiums, if not then hell, they're beautiful Standards. And the reason I pointed out those cars is because they have been in ALL the main GT games before GT1, 2, 3 and 4 (not GT5P). You speak of evidence but base that conclusion of yours off of one video? And some lousy text and some words PD has stated? They did the same thing with all the other cars from previous games. CD to DVD, now DVD to Blu-Ray... notice the trend? New technology allows for the cars to look more close to life. Premium or Standard, they'll look spot on in GT5, mark my words. One video from their website isn't anything to base your final opinion on. That's why i asked about the specific cars. If they look as good as they do, and they were from the ORIGINAL GT games, why is it a surprise to many that the other 'standard' cars will look as good?

 

[Devedander]

You speak of evidence but base that conclusion of yours off of one video? And some lousy text and some words PD has stated?

So photo (frame capture) evidence released from PD themselves and official statements including a direct quote from KY himself on the subject directly are just lousy text and somme words?

Are you serious or just trolling now?

They did the same thing with all the other cars from previous games. CD to DVD, now DVD to Blu-Ray... notice the trend? New technology allows for the cars to look more close to life.

Thank you for cementing my point you do not actually understand what you are talking about.

Premium or Standard, they'll look spot on in GT5, mark my words. One video from their website isn't anything to base your final opinion on.

One video, with mutliple shots of lots of cars, frame grabed and examined for up close inspection - text supporting it from PD themselves and direct quote from Kaz. Let's not try to downplay what's there for arguments sake.

And what are you basing your opinion on? You keep saying "one lousy video" and "some text" as if that's nothing... so far all it seems you have to base your opinion on is hope and a very superficial (and thus flawed for any significant purpose) understanding of how game design works.

I am sorry this thread has had plenty of people who are here to talk big about what they don't actually know about and you are just adding to that stack. Debate is one thing but to be a good debate both sides have to come armed with decent understanding of the subject at hand, and I am sorry but you clearly do not seem so equipped and are thus adding nothing of value to the debate. Just FUD and grief.

 

[Dravonic]

So when we see the video of the Audi R8 and the 787B, then we see the Super GT cars from the past games, a big case in point, the Castrol Supra, PREMIUM car or STANDARD? Because they were in GT1 GT2 GT3 GT4, and now in GT5, so they aren't done up to GT5 standards according to you guys? They looked damn near perfect. he said brought over, i can bring over a lot of things, doesn't mean anything like they are the exact same.

A car can be in all of the previous GT games and still be premium. It works this way: all standard cars are from previous GT games, but not all cars from previous GT games are standard.

There, you got your answer.

 

[Devedander]

A car can be in all of the previous GT games and still be premium. It works this way: all standard cars are from previous GT games, but not all cars from previous GT games are standard.

There, you got your answer.

👍 Simple.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's rhetorical. If you don't know the difference, YOU need to do your homework. I edited the post, I asked a question for a legitimate reason. Those cars appear to be Premiums, if not then hell, they're beautiful Standards. And the reason I pointed out those cars is because they have been in ALL the main GT games before GT1, 2, 3 and 4 (not GT5P). You speak of evidence but base that conclusion of yours off of one video? And some lousy text and some words PD has stated? They did the same thing with all the other cars from previous games. CD to DVD, now DVD to Blu-Ray... notice the trend? New technology allows for the cars to look more close to life. Premium or Standard, they'll look spot on in GT5, mark my words. One video from their website isn't anything to base your final opinion on. That's why i asked about the specific cars. If they look as good as they do, and they were from the ORIGINAL GT games, why is it a surprise to many that the other 'standard' cars will look as good?

Not that Devedander can't handle this quite well on his own, but two things:

1) You picked lousy examples. The 787B hasn't been in every game, it was never on the PS1. As for the Castrol Supra, also hasn't been: the GT3-and-up car has been the '00 model. Which makes it quite impossible for the PS1 as well.

2) If you think the medium the game comes on has anything to do with the quality of the models (well, other than the storage space provided), you prove his points nicely.

Marking your words, though!

(NINJA EDIT) - What Dravonic said. The SL55 or the Tuscan are just two examples in Prologue.

 

[freshseth83]

A car can be in all of the previous GT games and still be premium. It works this way: all standard cars are from previous GT games, but not all cars from previous GT games are standard.

There, you got your answer.

That's not an answer, I didn't ask if they can make cars into premiums. You state that not all cars from previous GT games are standard, but it's the consensus here that all the standard cars are previous GT game's cars. Which is fine. But my point is, if they are able to make some of the cars from GT1 2 3 and 4 into a PREMIUM car on GT5, why would we still assume that just because 'standard' cars are from previous GT games that they'll be of some lesser quality? It's all prejudged in my book. A couple vid captures don't make for the full game of the 'standard tune'. You get me?

 

[freshseth83]

Not that Devedander can't handle this quite well on his own, but two things:

1) You picked lousy examples. The 787B hasn't been in every game, it was never on the PS1. As for the Castrol Supra, also hasn't been: the GT3-and-up car has been the '00 model. Which makes it quite impossible for the PS1 as well.

2) If you think the medium the game comes on has anything to do with the quality of the models (well, other than the storage space provided), you prove his points nicely.

Marking your words, though!

(NINJA EDIT) - What Dravonic said. The SL55 or the Tuscan are just two examples in Prologue.

So the castrol Supra that is featured on GT5 which is NOT the 00' car wasn't in GT1 or GT2? Do some homework buddy. Also i said with new technology and with updated storage capabilities of the discs, you can't have a large game with advanced graphics which take up space on a 'small' sized disc. Again, READ and you'll see that jumping on the loser bandwagon of smack talking is lame, as is your posts.

 

[Devedander]

Not that Devedander can't handle this quite well on his own, but two things:

Thanks... you are right... it's not that I can't handle it... but damn do I get tired of bothering sometimes... even my fingers get tired after a while

Those last two posts of his... I just don't have the heart... go for it.

 

[Dravonic]

That's not an answer, I didn't ask if they can make cars into premiums. You state that not all cars from previous GT games are standard, but it's the consensus here that all the standard cars are previous GT game's cars. Which is fine. But my point is, if they are able to make some of the cars from GT1 2 3 and 4 into a PREMIUM car on GT5, why would we still assume that just because 'standard' cars are from previous GT games that they'll be of some lesser quality? It's all prejudged in my book. A couple vid captures don't make for the full game of the 'standard tune'. You get me?

That is the answer for your question. If that doesn't help you, you should be asking the right question.

But now I think I understand what you meant to ask. And the answer is simple: they can make cars from previous GTs into premium cars, but like any other premium car, it takes a long time. As much as they wanted to, they weren't able to make more than 200 of them in 5 years. That's why 800 cars are GT4 carryovers.

 

[Dravonic]

And drav- I had the question right. I'm making a point, my point. I'm stating that if they can make a 'carry over' car from a previous installment, sometimes back to the original game look as good as a premium, it makes as much sense as to say that they can do the same with Standard cars but just cut back on the 'extra detail'. Remember the statement, "beautifully recreated"? I do. And that pertained to 'standard' cars.

That's the problem right there. Premiums are not carryovers. They are reworked, improved. What it means is, the car was in GT4, then they gave it to a 3D artist, the guy remade the whole car possibly from scratch, and now the car is in GT5 and branded premium. A standard car however is not reworked or improved. The car was in GT4, and now it is in GT5. No 3D artist in the middle to remake the car.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thanks... you are right... it's not that I can't handle it... but damn do I get tired of bothering sometimes... even my fingers get tired after a while

Those last two posts of his... I just don't have the heart... go for it.

I think I'll only give it one more try anyways, though I'm sure the saving of his attempt at bypassing the swear-filters might come in handy, nice quote!

And drav- I had the question right. I'm making a point, my point. I'm stating that if they can make a 'carry over' car from a previous installment, sometimes back to the original game look as good as a premium, it makes as much sense as to say that they can do the same with Standard cars but just cut back on the 'extra detail'. Remember the statement, "beautifully recreated"? I do. And that pertained to 'standard' cars.

Your point is made clearly, no question; you don't understand the design process.

While some Premiums have indeed been from previous titles, they are not carried over; they're modelled from scratch to a completely separate level of detail. The Standards (as we've seen so far) have been pretty clearly GT4 car models brought into the current engine. "Beautifully created" can mean whatever a marketer wants it to mean, it's completely open to interpretation. You have chosen the interpretation that somehow 800 cars are going to make a remarkable leap in quality in a few months. That's fine.

Awaiting further blatant insults in place of any kind of substantial argument (since the onus to provide proof seemingly only ever gets asked of one side).

 

[steve30x]

Direct quote from an OPM interview:

As Yamauchi discusses his game, there's a sense that he'd work on it for another five years if he could. He Proudly announces over 1000 cars for the game but its with a degree of resignation that he confirms only 200 of those are new models for GT5."there are actually going to be two types of cars included in the game," he says. "we have over 800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP upscaled for the graphics engine of the PS3 and the 200 Premium cars.

Where does it say the cars were ported over?

 

[Scaff]

@freshseth83 - If I have to delete one more abusive comment from you directed at any member, then you will be out the door.

See you PM in-box and take notice, this is the last warning you will get.

Every one else has taken on board my post of last night, and kudos to them for bringing the thread back in-line.

You however have done nothing but display the type of attitude we do not want from members, either sort out your posting style and drop the attitude or you will be gone.


Scaff

 

[freshseth83]

Why do I get blasted by other members but get the warning? See, how Ii feel is that I tried to bring a point to the table but get crapped on by other posters. Yet nothing happens. So in these forums a valid point about a car that was in a previous GT game that is now in GT5 as a premium gets 'deboosted' by some of the others? Seriously, I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, I'm just trying to bring something out. But yet I have people on my back with every post i make trying to push me against the fence speaking as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Instead of reading my comments and answering my questions i just get rammed with hateful replies but when I defend myself and state how I feel some of them are reacting towards me I get in trouble? That's fine. No problem. I'll quit the cussin' and fussin'; I'm just trying to prove a point.

 

[Dravonic]

Where does it say the cars were ported over?

If of the 1000 cars only 200 of them are "new models for GT5" (and models here actually mean the 3D models -computer models- of the cars, not models in the sense of a car model -like different models of a ferrari-) so the "800 cars that are from GT4 and GT PSP" must be the cars ported over.

Why do I get blasted by other members but get the warning? See, how Ii feel is that I tried to bring a point to the table but get crapped on by other posters. Yet nothing happens. So in these forums a valid point about a car that was in a previous GT game that is now in GT5 as a premium gets 'deboosted' by some of the others? Seriously, I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, I'm just trying to bring something out. But yet I have people on my back with every post i make trying to push me against the fence speaking as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Instead of reading my comments and answering my questions i just get rammed with hateful replies but when I defend myself and state how I feel some of them are reacting towards me I get in trouble? That's fine. No problem. I'll quit the cussin' and fussin'; I'm just trying to prove a point.

Play the game, not the player. Nobody here is attacking you personally, they are only attacking what you said. You can retaliate by attacking what they said, but not them directly (a.k.a. have a polite discussion).

 

[Scaff]

Why do I get blasted by other members but get the warning? See, how Ii feel is that I tried to bring a point to the table but get crapped on by other posters. Yet nothing happens. So in these forums a valid point about a car that was in a previous GT game that is now in GT5 as a premium gets 'deboosted' by some of the others? Seriously, I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, I'm just trying to bring something out. But yet I have people on my back with every post i make trying to push me against the fence speaking as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Instead of reading my comments and answering my questions i just get rammed with hateful replies but when I defend myself and state how I feel some of them are reacting towards me I get in trouble? That's fine. No problem. I'll quit the cussin' and fussin'; I'm just trying to prove a point.

You attacked another member directly and repeatedly, using abuse and debasement to try and prove your point.

That is not the way to conduct a discussion. You argue the point not attack the person, you have been warned about this before, you have received an infraction for this before.

You took no notice of they, so do not try and drum up public sympathy for an indefensible position.

Post like the kind of member we want here or leave (by choice or not).

If you can't post without resorting to abuse to try and get your point then you would be better off not posting.

This is not a subject for debate, its instruction, follow it.


Scaff

 

[Strittan]

Where does it say the cars were ported over?

Nowhere, but you have eyes, don't you?

Seriously, I mean seriously! What has this forum become? It has been a month since E3, yet there are so many fellas who don't understand this standard/premium issue. I just can't believe it...

 

[freshseth83]

I'll follow instructions based upon the rules and guidelines. It's just sad some are being 'pushed' by other posters. It is not something one responds all that well to. All that aside, I'm just trying to make a point.

We seen the Castrol Supra from the 90's in the first of GT games, now it's in GT5 and it looks to be a premium car. My point is, if they can do it with a car that was from one of the first GT games, I don't see why the Standard cars could not get the same 'upscaled' treatment, but not so much on the 'premium level'.