Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

[SlipZtrEm]

Sorry for being factual about your all beloved Forza,

This isn't the first time I've told you this, and it probably won't be the last; learn some basic reading comprehension. I've said I prefer GT and I've played FM3 for maybe 2 hours tops. That doesn't mean I can't readily admit that Standard cars in no way compare to FM3 car models.

(and since everyone seems to think like Forza and Gran Turismo are the same thing with different publishers,sorry that is a fact not an opinion)

How can you start a statement with "seems" and then say it's "fact"?

I tell to everyone keep this thread on topic

Odd you can't do the same.

Edit: my example there was to show a point,not comparing,read the context

And this is odd too, since Scaff has even said that for strictly comparison purposes, other images have been fine.

The guy came out of left field with a FM3 comment, so I replied to it.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

It's quite sad 148 pages have been wasted discussing ported GT4 cars.

I guess some people are more concerned with quantity over quality.

 

[RedSuinit]

It's quite sad 148 pages have been wasted discussing ported GT4 cars.

I guess some people are more concerned with quantity over quality.

 

[Akira AC]

This isn't the first time I've told you this, and it probably won't be the last; learn some basic reading comprehension. I've said I prefer GT and I've played FM3 for maybe 2 hours tops. That doesn't mean I can't readily admit that Standard cars in no way compare to FM3 car models.

ouch that seems to hurt you a bit

(and since everyone seems to think like Forza and Gran Turismo are the same thing with different publishers,sorry that is a fact not an opinion)

sorry about the miss writing(English as second language)that would be:

"and since everyone thinks that Forza and Gran Turismo are the same thing with different publishers, which is a fact"

Finally read the context,everyone will agree that when you use a fair comparison about features for cars(in this case photomode for standards no other game features this and is a technical point that have to be explained by an example,if there is other game that features this please let me know) then sorry if I used Forza comparison, read the context!!! before replying because if you read by section and don't read the whole text you will end up doing this observations and not replying in an objective way which is what are you doing right now,as well as I'm doing now.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

ouch that seems to hurt you a bit

No, I'm pointing out your complete lack of logic. Just because I don't praise all things GT doesn't mean I somehow am a huge fan of another game. Why do you complain about people comparing the two when you always jump to the conclusion that someone who doesn't like one must like the other, and vice-versa?

"and since everyone thinks that Forza and Gran Turismo are the same thing with different publishers, which is a fact"

Are you saying the different publishers bit is a fact? Well yes, it is. But that's never, ever been questioned. So I still don't really see what you're digging at here.

Finally read the context,everyone will agree that when you use a fair comparison about features for cars(in this case photomode for standards no other game features this and is a technical point that have to be explained by an example,if there is other game that features this please let me know) then sorry if I used Forza comparison, read the context!!! before replying because if you read by section and don't read the whole text you will end up doing this observations and not replying in an objective way which is what are you doing right now,as well as I'm doing now.

I literally have no clue what the first half of that means, exactly. I understand there's a language barrier, so maybe someone can try to re-word that.

The funny thing is, I am being objective when I'm commenting on the quality of Standards. I'm not letting an allegiance to a particular company cloud my judgement.

 

[LukEEE]

dashboard ..

Im sure this car is premium in GT5 ahah

 

[GTWelsh]

Forza is a GT wonnabe, although good, it has never met or surpassed what GT has to offer, and although compared to GT5P, Forza 3 is better, if you scaled down Forza to include the same amount of cars and tracks and lack of features as GT5P we would all choose GT5P given the chance (with no "fanboyism" involved). Nothing else needs to be said on this. Geeez.

Standard cars will be fine, no matter what they turn out to be. Premium cars will rock. Murcialago is going to be my baby .

Thank you, and goodnight.

 

[Luminis]

dashboard ..

If you're reffering to that white part that can be seen through the rear window, seems to me like that's the hood

 

[Organ-Donor]

👍

 

[Akira AC]

and that is objective,so OK lets put this in other way:

"In the case of the photomode feature,the car models increases the level of detail because the memory uses it for that specific task,while racing, the car models uses less details to use a less amount of memory and allow other functions use memory, which is the case of games like GT,these games take out several details while racing,first Forza looks gorgeous in racing because it didn't have photo mode and the detail of the models were all the time in racing mode,in the case of Forza 3 they use the same FM2 up scaled models in racing and then switch quality during photomode(that is why FM3 take a bit of time to load while in game photomode,and takes some time while loads the exhibition cars)but what is impressive for a game like GT5 "

If you read the whole context you see that is a reference,not a comparison.

 

[ZoidFile]

Options are great, the more the better. But what about guys with little TV's?

I have a very small TV and always use the cockpit view. Its not a big problem.

Also, some of the fastest guys in the world use DFGT. And there are people out there who are better than most wheel users while using a controller.

I use a controller and I hope that GT5 is still properly playable with it. I don't want to buy a racing wheel anytime soon.

 

[eSZee]

Here we go again...

All I meant was that his source has low credibility. Unlike you, I know better.

 

[Tornado]

From my limited knowledge of modeling, I don't really think so. It'd probably be quicker and more efficient to just start from scratch when creating a Premium model of a car that's already available as a Standard. They're so different in their makeup... or at least that's how I see it.

In some cases, it isn't. You are correct in saying that it would probably be easier to start from scratch in this case, though. For one thing, the Premiums are modeled in a completely different way than the Standards were, and it would take more time to edit the Standards to be modeled the same way than it would be otherwise.

On the other hand, depending on what cars make up the final Premium tally, I wouldn't be that surprised if PD could rattle out an easy 100 or so cars from Standard to Premium in just a few months as soon as they are able to actually focus on doing so. For example, it would probably only take a couple of hours to make a Premium Camaro SS out of the confirmed Premium Camaro Z/28.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

and that is objective,so OK lets put this in other way:

"In the case of the photomode feature,the car models increases the level of detail because the memory uses it for that specific task,while racing, the car models uses less details to use a less amount of memory and allow other functions use memory, which is the case of games like GT,these games take out several details while racing,first Forza looks gorgeous in racing because it didn't have photo mode and the detail of the models were all the time in racing mode,in the case of Forza 3 they use the same FM2 up scaled models in racing and then switch quality during photomode(that is why FM3 take a bit of time to load while in game photomode,and takes some time while loads the exhibition cars)but what is impressive for a game like GT5 "

If you read the whole context you see that is a reference,not a comparison.

So my sarcastic joke about how people will praise GT utilizing LoD comes true less than a page later?

I understand the different LoD's. That's not an issue. I just wouldn't mind a pair of whatever glasses people are looking through so that GT5 Standard cars look look like they are "with same quality of in race FM3 models". Talk about objectivity.

In some cases, it isn't. You are correct in saying that it would probably be easier to start from scratch in this case, though. For one thing, the Premiums are modeled in a completely different way than the Standards were, and it would take more time to edit the Standards to be modeled the same way than it would be otherwise.

On the other hand, depending on what cars make up the final Premium tally, I wouldn't be that surprised if PD could rattle out an easy 100 or so cars from Standard to Premium in just a few months as soon as they are able to actually focus on doing so. For example, it would probably only take a couple of hours to make a Premium Camaro SS out of the confirmed Premium Camaro Z/28.

Oh yeah, I agree. I don't think it's too much to expect a huge balooning of the Premium car count in a few months; covering the R32-R34 Skylines, RX-7's, Miatas, there's a few dozen with very little needed to be changed.

 

[eSZee]

It's funny, now people are asking for more skylines, rx-7s and probably imprezas.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's funny, now people are asking for more skylines, rx-7s and probably imprezas.

Where?

I said I expect them . PD has a habit of using them to puff up the numbers, you would think they'd be easy to turn into more Premiums for just that reason, no?

 

[eSZee]

Where?

I said I expect them . PD has a habit of using them to puff up the numbers, you would think they'd be easy to turn into more Premiums for just that reason, no?

I think we all do. Why haven't they already done it though? Or maybe the 70 premium cars we don't know of are just repeat models?

 

[Tornado]

It's funny, now people are asking for more skylines, rx-7s and probably imprezas.

I never said I didn't like having choice. If PD can make a few dozen Standards into Premiums within a couple months of the game's release, the absolute last thing I would do is complain. After all, similar or not, they are actually different cars.

Now, if they have already done so and the unannounced premiums are just Skyline variations or whatever, I would be pretty annoyed.

 

[Nero9]

All I meant was that his source has low credibility. Unlike you, I know better.

We always have something to argue about...it's ridiciulous!

 

[analog]

On the other hand, depending on what cars make up the final Premium tally, I wouldn't be that surprised if PD could rattle out an easy 100 or so cars from Standard to Premium in just a few months as soon as they are able to actually focus on doing so. For example, it would probably only take a couple of hours to make a Premium Camaro SS out of the confirmed Premium Camaro Z/28.

Question I have if it's that easy ( and that could indeed be the case although it would probably take more than just a few hours ) why they haven't already done so as the Camaro Z/28 and SS being different by the way they were modelled struck me as a bit odd when I first found out.

I initially assumed this could be because Premium and Standard were to be separated in the game ( meaning they won't drive alongside in a race ) and you would have a Standard and a Premium Camaro available in both events to experience ( this could be replicated for other "duplicates" as well ).

But this isn't confirmed or suggested in any way and since the car line-up in GT-games always included lots of variations of the same car model, a lot of cars ( if they modelled the "base-version" to Premium spec ) could be easily transformed into Premium as well.
Although the vast majority of cars are indeed very different, the "duplicates" would be a rather logical starting point to increase the number of Premium cars in the game significantly without much effort I suppose, the fact they didn't do so ( hence the Camaro ) raises some questions as to why and what that implies or doesn't imply.

 

[Luminis]

Although the vast majority of cars are indeed very different, the "duplicates" would be a rather logical starting point to increase the number of Premium cars in the game significantly without much effort I suppose, the fact they didn't do so ( hence the Camaro ) raises some questions as to why and what that implies or doesn't imply.

This is just an assumption, of course, but maybe the guys at PD just wanted to avoid being accused of padding the numbers of the premium cars. It might not be something that PD would typically be concerned about, from my experience with the car lists from previous GTs, but it's the only reason I can think of, really.

I just hope that the remaining, what, 70 premiums are indeed different cars and not dublicates

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I too have thought that maybe the two Camaros hint at Standards and Premiums indeed being separate in game. It would make sense, and it does provide hope that the remaining unknown Premiums are indeed going to be a bunch of shiney newness, and not variations of cars already seen.

Then again, we have a GT-R and a GT-R Spec-V, a Viper SRT-10 Coupe and ACR (though the Coupe is the first year of the hardtop and only 500hp compared to the later model, so there's a pretty big performance gap). I'm sure we'll be getting a few surprises though, PD typically does that (the Cizeta was an unexpected one in GT4).

 

[G.T.Ace]

I hope there will be at least another 30 Premium cars from the 1980's and 1990's, like a Silvia, 200SX, Micra, Supra, Corolla, Celica, Legacy, Panda (yes seriously) etc. Just normal, non-supercars.

 

[danielwhite74]

Finally the confirmation.

That is weak Kaz, very weak - you've let the side down, and you've let yourself down.

FM3 FTW, with new version for next year. That's my kind of development time scale.

This is depressing. Yet another troll that senselessly demands quantity over quality. 👎

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This is depressing. Yet another troll that senselessly demands quantity over quality. 👎

While I agree with the troll comment... I don't really see how wanting a view spread to all cars is an example of quantity over quality. At least not nearly as obvious of one as the entire Standard cars thing. Them existing is a pretty clear example, actually.

 

[analog]

This is depressing. Yet another troll that senselessly demands quantity over quality. 👎

If you read it correctly he was mainly asking for the same quality on more cars, nothing to do with quantity being more important than quality........

The tone of that message probably was, as SlipZtrEm said, trolling though.

 

[Griffith500]

While LoD and anistropy are almost certainly going to be used, they are a gamble... they rely on an average amount of assets being in certain ranges to pull off their resource saving magic. If that's all that's holding your framerate, you are bound to run into problems when a lot of stuff happens close at the same time (think pileup). You then have little or no way to apply LoD and anistropic filtering as it's all up close and personal.

How is anisotropic texture filtering a performance enhancing effect? It's more expensive than simple bi-linear, simply because it needs to be aware of viewing angles.

Anyway, a good LoD system doesn't just scale according to distance. Most good systems scale according to some sort of density function, i.e. according to how many polygons are on screen
I'm not saying it counts the polygons, rather the number of objects of a given LoD, and scales the global bias accordingly - each object has its own bias according to how "important" it is, so background trees and stuff drop out (below their pure-range-defined LoD) before the foreground cars do. This kind of system is only beneficial with large numbers of objects, as found in most modern games.

Thats definitely an assumption and I think kind of unlikely... KY has said he was against DLC before and although anything can change, I really think they are more likely to just concentrate on GT6 rather than keep dribbling stuff into GT5.

Was he against DLC in principle, or just against charging for DLC? I'm not saying he (actually, Sony) will give us premiumified cars for free - and we don't know what (or on which hardware) GT6 will be as of yet.


side note: holy crap this thread moves fast

 

[danielwhite74]

While I agree with the troll comment... I don't really see how wanting a view spread to all cars is an example of quantity over quality. At least not nearly as obvious of one as the entire Standard cars thing. Them existing is a pretty clear example, actually.

By "quantity over quality" I was referring to the amount of titles released, not the number of cars in each game.

 

[analog]

By "quantity over quality" I was referring to the amount of titles released, not the number of cars in each game.

Fair enough, although the quantity over quality argument is often used in this thread in the context of Premium versus Standard so confusion is logical in this regard as you didn't exactly made it clear you meant game titles.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

If you read it correctly he was mainly asking for the same quality on more cars, nothing to do with quantity being more important than quality........

The tone of that message probably was, as SlipZtrEm said, trolling though.

Actually you have completely misread the post. When the poster said "Thats my kind of development timescale" he is referring to the number of Forza titles released in such quick succession. This is why another member said "quantity over quality".

I would agree with the quantity over quality comment, Turn 10 will never produce a game as good as GT5 because of the short development time. You only have to look at Forza 3 because it stinks of an unfinished, rushed project. Poor old Turn 10 rushed FM3 because they thought like others that GT5 would be released in Dec 09.