Your thoughts about "standard" vs. "premium"

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What would you have rather had PD do about "premium" vs. "standard" cars

  • Keep everthing the same

    Votes: 324 19.1%
  • Release the game later with all the cars "premium"

    Votes: 213 12.6%
  • Not do "premium" cars at all but focus on other features i.e. dynamic weather

    Votes: 134 7.9%
  • DLC packs after the release

    Votes: 844 49.8%
  • Wished PD didn't get are hopes up, lol

    Votes: 180 10.6%

  • Total voters
    1,695
Definitely not me.
Me either. However...

Amen to that. I've been using cockpit view for every single racing game that had it and haven't been using any other view for the last, well, years. It's going to be a darn pain in the rear to even try and use a different one.
Frankly, I haven't found a realistic cockpit view yet in a racing game. Most of them make it look like you're driving from the back seat, and too low to boot. The best one to me was Toca 3's, and they messed that one up too by having your nose down by the dash. :P

Maybe Kaz will grant my request and make all driver views adjustable, but if he doesn't, roof cam for me all the way.
 
Maybe Kaz will grant my request and make all driver views adjustable, but if he doesn't, roof cam for me all the way.
I hope so as well. Forza's can be adjusted a little, but it's a workaround, messes with the game and it's a pain to do, but, sadly, a necessity to actually be able to enjoy cockpit view. I don't want to go through something similar with GT5 :ill:
 
This whole "standard" vs "premium" issue would have never existed if Polyphony just released to the press that GT5 will have 200 cars and that's it.

GT3 didn't even have 200 cars and it was the most popular GT to date. It feels a bit much to wait over 5 years for 200 cars but no other game will have cars models as detailed like GT5. It's almost as if it should be a game for PS4.

This whole issue is due to the fact that we have expected over 1000 cars in the last 5 years and now, finding out that only 200 of those will be of the quality we have seen in all the trailers and screenshots.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I'm as unhappy as you guys about this whole issue, but still consider buying GT5...
 
Me either. However...


Frankly, I haven't found a realistic cockpit view yet in a racing game. Most of them make it look like you're driving from the back seat, and too low to boot. The best one to me was Toca 3's, and they messed that one up too by having your nose down by the dash. :P

Maybe Kaz will grant my request and make all driver views adjustable, but if he doesn't, roof cam for me all the way.

As far as confirmed features / functionality goes, this would be the only reason I might choose premium over standard. The cockpit view as was in GT5:P, won't sway me at all - it's just not "right" for me.

Now it just remains to be seen what the differences are with respect to customisation and everything else.
 
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Frankly, I haven't found a realistic cockpit view yet in a racing game. Most of them make it look like you're driving from the back seat, and too low to boot. The best one to me was Toca 3's, and they messed that one up too by having your nose down by the dash. :P

Maybe Kaz will grant my request and make all driver views adjustable, but if he doesn't, roof cam for me all the way.


I guess driving from the bumper/roof cam gives a much better impression of driving the car then a "unrealistic" (I don`t want to know the way you sit in your car) cockpit view?

I really hope that Kaz will give us a "Only Cockpit view" option for online races. This "honor" system never works in multiplayer games with random people, especially in racing games.
Most players will always do everything -even if it includes cheating (cutting the track, crashing into other vehicles)- to be better.
 
If only it was a choice which viewpoint you preferred for those who, like me, only use cockpit view in Prologue.
If it were an option available on Standard cars the discussion of different additional options regarding for example, closer to the windscreen, etc. would be relevant.

For the ones who don't use it nothing changes I suppose and for the record, the cockpit view as it is in Prologue is spot on in my opinion ( I don't get this whole backseat or cramped feeling argument myself, sure there's some loss of view which to me only makes it more challenging and dare I say it, realistic but this is just a feeling I get using it, regardless which view is more realistic objectively, if there even is such a thing ).

Besides being "realistic" or more challenging in my opinion which ofcourse are subjective observations, the fact is I enjoy this view the most and can't get used to the other available views like hood or bumper cam, etc. after experiencing cockpit view.
 
I don't understand the complaints about Prologue's cockpit view either. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good and looks right on a big widescreen. Maybe a bit more screen real estate could be dedicated to the actual track, and maybe there could be an option to turn off the steering wheel (for those who complain that having two in front of them looks strange). But as it is it's a lot of fun.

I don't see an "only cockpit view" option as likely, because that's unnecessarily forcing some people to use it when they really prefer not to. I don't entirely like to use it when racing other people because with the DS3 (until I dig my DFP out of storage), it's too hard to look around and ensure I'm not going to bump someone in a turn. So I use chase cam.

One thing I would find handy, and I never thought I'd say it, but GT needs to borrow a particular feature from... GTA. I've re-mapped my L1 and R1 buttons to look left and right, but it'd be nice if holding both allowed me to look back. Saves a button.
 
I don't see an "only cockpit view" option as likely, because that's unnecessarily forcing some people to use it when they really prefer not to. I don't entirely like to use it when racing other people because with the DS3 (until I dig my DFP out of storage), it's too hard to look around and ensure I'm not going to bump someone in a turn. So I use chase cam.

One thing I would find handy, and I never thought I'd say it, but GT needs to borrow a particular feature from... GTA. I've re-mapped my L1 and R1 buttons to look left and right, but it'd be nice if holding both allowed me to look back. Saves a button.

Haha, I re-mapped the L1 and R1 buttons also for looking left and right and I agree that the option of holding both to look back, like in GTA, makes more sense ergonomically than assigning a seperate button for rear view.

As for forcing cockpit only, I'm against that too as it's a personal preference foremost and racing fair and proper is all we can ask from our online competitors, the decision which option they decide to choose is up to them not me ( and it would severely reduce the number of opponents as well apart from being irrelevant to the actual experience as long as you don't know which view anyone uses ).

I do use cockpit view in online race myself though, just have to check the mirrors and have to look left and right more frequently unless I'm far ahead of ( or behind....) my opponents.:)
 
Article from PLAYSTATION - Official magazine - Australian
------------------------------


"Rather than ask our question aloud, we hand Kazunori Yamauchi's translator an open text document on a phone. It's an unorthodex approach, but the question is so important, and left field, we can't risk any part of it becoming lost in translation.

The other information-hungry international journos in the room are instantly curious - possibly even a little miffed by the secrecy. This mild concern ratchets up to 'scoop, high alert' when the translator's stoic composure weakens and he allows himself a short chuckle and a shake of his head.

He turns to a smilling, slightly bewildered Yamauchi and poses the question to him in japanese. we watch as the lead designer's grin widens a little bit more with every word that is understood. The question?

"Every year HOLDEN and FORD fans get together in a small country town for the BATHURST 1000 to fight, drink and watch cars race. Have you heard of it?

What Australian cars do you have in GT5 that might keep them from killing each other?"

After repeating the question in English and getting quite a few laughs around the room, The translator hands out Yamauchi's response.

I do want to put as many HOLDEN cars and other Australian models into the game as possible but Australia happens to be quite far from Japan. It's actually hard to get our staff over there to do a lot of the testing that we need to do. We're gonna keep making an effort to get there.
"And I've always heard about the chaos that goes on at the Bathurst track and i actually have a dream to maybe one day participate in one"

Honestly, we get the impression that the big man appreciated a different style of question rather than two dozen people asking him boring variations of: " So, why did this game take so long?" This theory gets confirmed when question time wraps up and Yamauchi and his translator seek us out in the crowd to shake our hand while sporting grins larger than most SUV grills.

Yamauchi is a consummate car nut and one hell of a pleasant guy. and let's face it; He's got a lot to be smiling about. After six years in development, two prick-teasing demos and US$60 million dollars spent - Yamauchi is f-i-n-a-l-l-y given the green light of his motorsport magnum opus.

All that extra time and energy has been spent very wisely it seems, Yamauchi tells us that GT5 will have over 1000 cars in it's garage. Over 800 of these fall into the standard cars category, witch offers a slew of sensual sports cars and many returning favourites from the G games from yesteryear. Dispite the nomenclature, thay still look great.

The remaining 200 will be premium class cars, each ane intricately reproduced with every detail to send shiver of joy down the spine of the most obsessive-compulsive petrol head.

Like we said, this isn't to say the standard cars are some sort of visual slouch. It's just that the premium cars offer little extra touches of detail like fully recreated interiors, rendered undersides, the ability to use high or low beam lights and full, panel-shredding damage in fender benders.

Standard cars feature only very basic interiors hidden by darker tinted glass, one headlight setting and cosmetic damage is limited to dirt, scratches and dents.Still, both standard and premium cars feature horns, reverse lights, mechanical damage and the ability to roll over during wrecks.

Yamauchi is so proud of the premium cars he sheepishy informs us that he, perhaps, went a little overboard in there construction. He suggests that they could easily be used for a PS4 version of GT ( assuming such a wondrous machine and game existed ). Looking at the comparison shots between real life and in-game models it's hard to disagree.

Outside of your automobile, the visuals are just as seductive. GT5 now sports a brand new debris system that has your tires flicking up dirt and grass, along with other visual perks such as smoke illumination and colliding sparks, in truth, we saw pretty much every game at E3 - from all three camps - and this was the visual belle of the ball.

It's evan more so when yo factor looking at in 3D, or looking at it in 3D along with the PS eye camera accurately tracking your head movements and replicating it in-game. The depth in the latter ( especially in the cockpit view ) is samething you need to see to fully believe.

Yamauchi's seduction of our eyeballs continued unabated when he showcased a bunch of new circuits, including Toscana, a taxing dirt track with a draw-distance to die for, and Rome, a track familiar to GT fans - only now it's based around the colosseum. Last but certainly not least, there's meticulously crafted Top gear track that features a nasty, figure eight setup that should cause more fatel crashes than a porn school billboard."

Standard cars feature basic interior hidden by the tinted glass. Hope this means we might get some type of cockpit view for the standards.
 
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Not a chance. Kaz clearly stated that Standard cars are ported straight from Gran Turismo 4, with no changes bar improvements to their lighting engine. If Polyphony were incorporating cockpits into Standard models, we'd be aware of it by now. Give it up already. ;)
 
Not a chance. Kaz clearly stated that Standard cars are ported straight from Gran Turismo 4, with no changes bar improvements to their lighting engine. If Polyphony were incorporating cockpits into Standard models, we'd be aware of it by now. Give it up already. ;)

Well you cant say no changes those ported cars from GT4 feature damage.
 
Mechanical damage only. The fact they incorporate the new physics engine is a given.

"Standard cars feature only very basic interiors hidden by darker tinted glass, one headlight setting and cosmetic damage is limited to dirt, scratches and dents.Still, both standard and premium cars feature horns, reverse lights, mechanical damage and the ability to roll over during wrecks."

Dont know where you got mechanical damage only? Its even on the offical web site Standards cars get dents, scratched, dirt this was not the case for GT4.
 
There are no complains about the standard cars as far as I know. But I do not think they have shown too much to anyone ? I think all reviews are going to praise it anyways although that can be one reason to downplay it. Let us wait and see ;)
 
Standard cars feature only very basic interiors hidden by darker tinted glass, one headlight setting and cosmetic damage is limited to dirt, scratches and dents.Still, both standard and premium cars feature horns, reverse lights, mechanical damage and the ability to roll over during wrecks.
Very similiar to what the UK version said. The only exception is the UK magazine said roll overs would only occur on premium models.
 
Well on the official web site its says all cars will be able to roll over. 👍

Excellent news then.:)

As for forcing cockpit only, I'm against that too as it's a personal preference foremost and racing fair and proper is all we can ask from our online competitors

Good luck with that. In all my years of online racing via consoles (started 2005) i've hardly met anyone who races fair and proper. The only exception is when im racing against friends.

A couple of examples of my experiences.

RacePro on Xbox 360.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVQb0G3JJEo

Forza 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9KTBZLv9k
 
Good luck with that. In all my years of online racing via consoles (started 2005) i've hardly met anyone who races fair and proper. The only exception is when im racing against friends.

Well in Prologue online I had enough fair and properly competitive and fun races with people I didn't met before.
Sure most races I participated in included at least one or two individuals who didn't drive decently or just cheat and play bumpercars at some point ( even some of those whose driving skills weren't bad but still felt the need to push me into the barrier ).
Some events consisted only of complete buffoons but if you're patient and if the number of entrants isn't very large there's a lot of people wanting the same fair racing experience you and I want.
Not all people you haven't met turn out to be online-bullies, those vids you provided only show the negative elements.
Good luck indeed, maybe you just weren't lucky in the people you've met, doesn't mean that experience is therefore shared by everybody else.
 
Well in Prologue online I had enough fair and properly competitive and fun races with people I didn't met before.
Sure most races I participated in included at least one or two individuals who didn't drive decently or just cheat and play bumpercars at some point ( even some of those whose driving skills weren't bad but still felt the need to push me into the barrier ).
Some events consisted only of complete buffoons but if you're patient and if the number of entrants isn't very large there's a lot of people wanting the same fair racing experience you and I want.
Not all people you haven't met turn out to be online-bullies, those vids you provided only show the negative elements.
Good luck indeed, maybe you just weren't lucky in the people you've met, doesn't mean that experience is therefore shared by everybody else.
I suppose I have been unlucky. However I have met some great friends and some of then I met back in 2005 and we still speak and race on a daily basis.

The problem online isn't so much bullies or dirty racers, although they do exist. The problem is some people just don't know how to race properly. The fast in, slow out mentality of some means those who brake at the correct point are often bashed into the rear by these fast in, slow out racers.

The ideal people to race online with isn't just those who are clean but those of a similiar ability.

For me how PD deal with the online side of the game is far more important to me than this standard/premium car issue. I hope those who deliberately bash people are dealt with and I hope cheaters who cut corners are also dealt with.
 
article from playstation - official magazine - australian
------------------------------


standard cars feature basic interior hidden by the tinted glass. Hope this means we might get some type of cockpit view for the standards.


This is what we have with GT4 cars, the detail was very low. In some case you can see roll cages, drivers helmets, seats, etc., but not a good starting point to build interiors.

As far a cockpit view, I think to get a realistic view the drivers view has to be obscures in some cases by the pillars & hood/bonnet.
Imagine coming up to the cork screw at Laguna Seca with the hood blocking your view at the crest, not the same with bumper view.

Maybe good news, at this point it doesn't seem out of the realm, that if PD would of found it necessary to use standard cars (GT4 assets),
that some tracks from will carry over into GT5 this way. But still don't expect the number of tracks to get to GT4 levels.:)
 
Article from PLAYSTATION - Official magazine - Australian
------------------------------
All that extra time and energy has been spent very wisely it seems, Yamauchi tells us that GT5 will have over 1000 cars in it's garage. Over 800 of these fall into the standard cars category, witch offers a slew of sensual sports cars and many returning favourites from the G games from yesteryear. Dispite the nomenclature, thay still look great.

Like we said, this isn't to say the standard cars are some sort of visual slouch. It's just that the premium cars offer little extra touches of detail like fully recreated interiors, rendered undersides, the ability to use high or low beam lights and full, panel-shredding damage in fender benders.

Standard cars feature only very basic interiors hidden by darker tinted glass, one headlight setting and cosmetic damage is limited to dirt, scratches and dents. Still, both standard and premium cars feature horns, reverse lights, mechanical damage and the ability to roll over during wrecks.

November 2nd needs to hurry up and arrive, to close this debate, and more importantly this never ending debate.

I want to be excited over reading this, but in the end, it doesn't matter. I'll still enjoy GT5 with or without dashboard camera views in certain cars.:)
 
November 2nd needs to hurry up and arrive, to close this debate, and more importantly this never ending debate.

I want to be excited over reading this, but in the end, it doesn't matter. I'll still enjoy GT5 with or without dashboard camera views in certain cars.:)

No doubt man, what struck me though was the basic interior part, I remember reading the article from Kotaku, and It said the same thing about the basic interiors. So when i read that it had me thinking. 💡 :lol: In the end GT5 will be amazing like you said, and thats what counts most. 👍
 
and It said the same thing about the basic interiors. So when i read that it had me thinking. 💡 :lol:
I think you misunderstood. The article clearly says
Standard cars feature only very basic interiors hidden by darker tinted glass
Which means they're talking about what you could see from the outside (opponent during gameplay, chase cam and cinematic cam for replay, photomode etc....)
 
I think you misunderstood. The article clearly says
Which means they're talking about what you could see from the outside (opponent during gameplay, chase cam and cinematic cam for replay, photomode etc....)

O ok 👍
 
(Sorry if this post does not have much continuity with what is posted above. I am keeping it on topic though.)

Even though I was disappointed by the confirmation of no cockpit view for the Standard Cars, I've gotten around it and after some thought, I realised that, as a player that uses mostly external views to drive, the lack of modelled interiors becomes less relevant. However, something still concerns me. Just the fact that the Standard models have no detailed interiors and darkened windows already puts them a medium step down from the Premiums. This means that the Standards are dependant on their exterior look to be worthy of racing alongside a Premium without looking too misplaced. Now, if PD updated their exteriors making them more detailed (smoothened curves, 3D wheels, extra headlight detail, modelled grills that were previously only textured), then they are perfect for the game 👍, even with no cockpit view, simple undercarriages and small dents only, but if PD just ported them (my fear 👎) then, atleast for me, it will significantly detract on the pleasure of my experience driving the Standard cars (this is because I normally apreciate watching my replays while admiring the car as it goes by).

What makes me have such a confused opinion right now is the fact that I see evidence to support both sides.

On the bad side, we have the GT5 Standard Cars video, which after close analysis, you can conclude that you are seeing the GT4 models completely untouched, running on the GT5 lighting engine.

On the good side, we have the Playstation Magazine article from Australia claiming (posted not long ago by JDMKing) that the only difference between the two is the more intricate details on the Premium cars like fully modelled interiors instead of basic interiors and also undercarriaged. Other than that they say the Standard cars also look great.

Also on the good side are two theories of mine, (I understand you might already be bored, I wrote the beginning of this post rather terribly) which I'd like to share, that I believe could mean better and improved Standard Cars.

Theory 1 - The GTPSP Intro Snapshot

In the intro for GTPSP, some of the sequences, especially in the beginning, are rendered with far too much detail for the PSP to be able to handle. This suggests that those parts were made with a more powerfull, advanced engine: GT5, and using GT5 models aswell. In a high quality video, which contained a part of the PSP intro, I paused and took a screencap. In it (show below hopefully), you can see a mix of GT5 Premium and Standard cars heading towards the camera. Why do I say it's a mix? Because of one particular car I spotted in the top left corner:

(see file attachments)

The Corvette C5-R that was spotted has already been confirmed to be a GT5 standard car. This car and others in the scene like the Cizeta, Calsonic Skyline, Suzuki Escudo, Pagani Zonda, Lotus Europa, DeLorean (likely standards aswell) look great together with the Premiums (Ford GT, SLR, ZR-1), alleast under those lighting conditions, giving me hope that maybe something more substancial was done to update the exteriors of older models.

Theory 2 - Are all Standards from past GT titles?(this one can give a tremendous headache :ill:)

As you know, a lot of the Standard cars will be returns of classics and favorites from past itinerations of Gran Turismo. However, are they all cars from previous games? What makes me put this question is the following set of thoughts: GT5 will feature 800 standard cars in total. It is unlikely those cars will come from games earlier that GT4. This means the cars we will be seeing as Standard are coming from GT4 and GTPSP. GTPSP's car list consists of 800 cars with all the cars from GT4 present as part of it, suggesting that the premium cars (modelled completely from scratch for GT5) would be those not seen on GTPSP, and those that are on GTPSP are made standards. This is not the case however, since cars (present in GTPSP) like the Ferrari Enzo, Bugatti Veyron and even others from older times like the Capuccino, Castrol Tom's Supra, Acura NSX, Skyline R34 etc..., have all been converted to Premium level. What comes out of this is that there is some space left in the Standard car count to reach 800. How will that space be filled? More premiums? Or maybe standard cars modelled from scratch (read as cars that have not appeard before in GT but have made it in as standard level vehicles)? If some of these cars are modelled from scratch, then even thought they have no decent interiors, their exterior detail should be quite high, since PD wouldn't model a brand new car on GT4 levels. More than that, in order to avoid further class division among the cars (like the creation of a High-Standard type) PD would have to update their older models to match these new Standard models they've just built, therefore emplying and improved quality on the exterior of all Standard cars.
 

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