Ferrari in GT? Not a chance.

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Ferrari as far as I'm aware arn't in an exclusive contract at the moment, Porsche however are, EA did have Ferrari and Porsche up until a couple of years ago, then they lost Porsche then the lost Ferrari, since then they're re-aquired a license for Porsche, that's why they had Porsche in NFS:U and not Ferrari and the reason Porsche wasn't in PGR3 and other games where they've been substituted for Ruf. Put it this way, theres more chance of Ferrari appearing than of Porsche, Porsche may appear but it would be a long time before they did. As for being satisfied, I'll be satisfied without them, obviously the game would be a bit better with them as extra cars, but they won't make or break the game.
 
It wou,d be interesting to see if a HD based add on would work for GT4. If it did, it could open up a whole host of new cars like in the Midtown madness series or racer.
 
Well you can play GT4 on the PS2 from the HDD without the disk, and it is possible to maipulate GT4 content in this way ie to include race tracks from Tourist trophy, but GT4 isn't expandable, for every track you add, you have to replace a track, if you tried adding a new car, it would have to replace a car ect. GT4 is not expandable.
 
Someone mentioned that at one point, PD HAS to put in Ferrari, Porsche, and/or Lamborghini. My question: at this stage, how badly do any or all of these companies need to be in GT5? Is it required to see these in the game? Explain.
 
Polyphony001
I'm not going to weep if they're not present, because I'm pretty certain they won't be! :grumpy:

now, now! Never say Never! It could happen!

I wouldn't cry if they werent, but it'd rid PD of one of the biggest complaints about the game series.
 
I'll weep if their not in, I wanna take an F40 around the 'Ring, and I don't want to have to buy a 360 and PGR3 just to do that!
 
And I shan't take that option if they aren't. For what it's worth, you might as well buy a day's racing session with one, that's a far better experience, and you're not sending all your money to microsoft!
 
JohnBM01
Someone mentioned that at one point, PD HAS to put in Ferrari, Porsche, and/or Lamborghini. My question: at this stage, how badly do any or all of these companies need to be in GT5? Is it required to see these in the game? Explain.

Dude, you've said this same thing like...40 times now. We all know now that it's not required but we all want to see them in GT5. Thats where this thread is going on about, but no one here says they're REQUIRED.

You made a thread about smaller cars, tell me, do you think they are REQUIRED for GT5? Will you buy GT5 if they werent ingame?
 
Just few very new industry-bits and moments.

Simbin Company - the authors of GTR series for PC - has secured the rights for another FIA's big venue, WTCC. Simbin is now the world-only licence holder for both FIA GT and FIA WTCC venues.

In new GTR2 game all FIA GT cars are represented with their accurate names and specs, including race-modified Ferraris, Porsches, Lambos, Maseratis and many others, not so improtant for this very discussion.

What intrests us is the fact that Simbin has announced development of WTCC-based game for both PC and "Next-Gen platforms". Which could also lead to a very logical presume that Simbin is also developing some GTR game for Next-Gen.

Of course, the PS3 console would be more welcomed then X360, purely because of Sony's exclusive deal with Immersion Company, the world-licencor of force-feedback technologies. Notice that GTR on PC can be played by DFP wheel respectfully.

It also leads us to conclusion that no official WTCC or FIA GT cars and/or liveries will not be in GT5, including the famous rac-modified models of so called Trinity Brands (and Maserati, with it's own Trinity logo on the mask :)).

However, the release about licence-secure does not imply the magnitude of licencing - so maybe we can expect some older models from past seasons, but it would be somehow contradictory move from PD since no new models could be represented which would be a annti-move.

Time will tell.
 
Well, it seems that Rockstar has discovered a way to side-step Ferrari licensing...

mc3r3551go.jpg


What you're looking at is the Gemballa 355. It's the only Ferrari Gemballa has ever worked on, as far as I know, but hey, it's something.

(for those of you who don't know, Gemballa produces tuned Porsches, and is recognized as a manufacturer by the German government, very much like RUF)
 
Sigh, I'm getting tired of game companies buying up exclusives. I've only bought two EA games since they started pulling that crud. I might snub GTR2 just for sheer heck. Besides, I'm sure that GT5 will keep me busy for a good long while.

Polyphony should just secure the rights to use cars in a game. Wouldn't that frost a few people. :D
 
Trouble is though, Simbin employ the star force copyright software, so I can't buy their games.
:grumpy:
it's annoying but I'm not destroying my PC just to play a game, it makes no economic sense.
Maybe buy an old heap off ebay and use that instead...
 
Polyphony001
Trouble is though, Simbin employ the star force copyright software, so I can't buy their games.
:grumpy:
it's annoying but I'm not destroying my PC just to play a game, it makes no economic sense.
Maybe buy an old heap off ebay and use that instead...

They do? :scared: Aww, I was thinking of buying GTR2, or even GTL...not anymore.
 
precisely. It's a damn shame, GTL and GTR are both great games, but after 2 of my mates (the only two I know play those games) now have damaged computers after running them, I'm vowing to avoid them.
 
Shame about the FIA cars. Exclusive licencing is wank. I hope it breaks EA.

Anyway, JohnBM, I don't want your head to explode :) but when I said they "have to put them in eventually" I'm not speaking literally ;) just expressing my gut feeling that it's very likely on a long enough timeline. And as long as there none of these monopolistic EA licences securing them right now, GT5 could well be the one!

I'm sure Kaz would like them in there *almost* as much as us (being a Japanese car fan).
 
Why doesn't PD make them "Concept cars" and just completely try to duplicate the ferraris lambos and porsches but with a special concept logo instead??
 
Because that would be a breach of image copywright.
 
Dream Car class in GT series was always a special race-class based on existing models in the game which didn't have a "real-life" racing version, or racing-version was used in some other "licenced" game.

Examples are numerous, but there was never a PD car which used badges unlicenced. TOCA RD3 has used Koenigg (for Ferrari and Lambo) and Gemballa names to present a GT racing class without propper licencing of cars itself. However, none of the vehicles represented in TRD3 have ever existed in such liveries/colours.
 
Niels
Why, it's PD's car? How do you judge if something is a replica or a unique car?
Manufacturers copywrite the shapes of their cars as well as he names and badges, the whole thing is copywrite, it's not just the logo. In the case of Ruf PD got the Ruf license, Ruf have thier own copywrite's in place, they looks almost the same as Porschje so why arn't they breaching Porsches? I hear you say, that's because Porsche sells the body shapes to Ruf under a set agrement where thoes body shapes will be used on non-Porsche cars. Ruf then has a right to license thoes body shapes to other companies when applied to one of thier cars, Ruf can;t license out a Porsche that they've tuned up, but they can license out a Ruf that they've built. It's the same with Gemballa and Koenig. Nissan can't go out and make car that looks exactley the same as a Honda NSX and call it the Nissan's mid engines supercar or whatever, it's against the law to to copy somone elses design i f it's covered by copywrite.
 
Just because I made a thread about small cars doesn't mean that I don't care about other cars. And let me say something else I've been saying that will make you sick...

I only asked a few simple questions. (1) How badly do they need to be in the game? This is in response to someone saying, "at one point, they'll need to include Ferrari." I'm not asking the question so that I can lay back and expect a stupid answer so I can lash out at them. I'm just simply asking about what state GT is in before someone stated they need to be in at some point. The July 2005 edition of EGM magainze said that Forza Motorsport had "...cars that you actually want to drive." Well, what if Ferrari and Porsche were out of Forza? Would you buy that game, Niels? (2) Is it required that these cars are in the game? Again, nothing to incite anger or a heated argument.

Now on to exclusive licenses. I, too dislike exclusive licenses, mostly if the game in question is horrible with the product being featured. If you're only going to get an exclusive license, it means that you have the bigtime rights to market something while everyone else can kiss your ass. It used to be that Eletronic Arts was the new Microsoft, but the big two in their lineup of racing games, Ferrari and Porsche, had their contracts terminated or whatever. It means that many other companies can pursue the license in question. I will say that Sega probably has the Ferrari licensing in which disgruntled GT fans say "no Ferrari, no GT5." Conversely, if a good game has exclusive licensing that many people love, then it can be a good thing. An exclusive deal with PD and a well-respected car company means that ONLY a game of PD's can feature the car company and no one else. This can even relate to racing sanctions. The JGTC/Super GT has been featured in every GT, but they don't have (for what I know) Super GT exclusive rights. If they had that licensing deal, they'd have the rights to market EVERY course in Super GT. A few of them are already in a GT game- Suzuka, Fuji, and Motegi's road course. A licensing deal would see Sugo, TI Circuit Aida (still around?), Okayama, Autopolis... all those tracks in the next GT or next GTs to come.

This issue has driven me sick, but I'll still keep talking about this deal and others in regards to Ferrari and such. Just being a nice guy. Can't appreciate that? Then stop responding to my posts. Simple as that.
 
I'm not sure of the duration of the copyright for body styling or the amount of modification needed so as not to breach the copyright?

For example, the producers of the movie The Racers (1955) approached Enzo Ferrari about getting the loan of some racing Ferraris for their picture and Enzo turned them down. This surprised them as American auto makers routinely loaned or gifted their cars to film makers as a means of publicity. The producers responded by buying some used Ferrari and Maserati sports and formula cars, attached a different grill to them and called them "Boranos." ASAIK, the film makers were never sued by either Ferrari or Maserati.

Much the same approach can be seen in John Frankenheimer's Grand Prix (1966). Since much actual Formula One footage was used in the film, the movie cars were virtual duplicates of their real-life counterparts, right down to paint schemes and race numbers. Ferraris were dubbed "Manettas," BRMs were labeled "Jordans," and Honda was called the "Yamura." Obviously, Frankenheimer did not have a license from Ferrari, BRM, or Honda but I don't recall hearing about him being sued by any of the companies whose cars he copied.

Perhaps the issue is different with film because (1) the movie makers are not trying to sell cars and (2) an automobile is sort of a "public figure" as it is seen being driven out on the streets and race tracks of the world and, in a sense, is in the public domain.

Copyright, AFAIK, is intended to protect the expression of an idea, whereas a patent protects an idea itself (e.g. technology) for a much shorter period (18 years IIRC), and a trademark or registration is intended to prevent someone from producing a product so similar to the registrant's that the public might be fooled into thinking it was buying the trademarked or registered product. In the case of both copyright and trademark, I believe, the central issue is whether or not the consumer is likely to mistake the product for the real thing and buy it for that reason.

Thus, to my thinking, if the issue here is Ferrari's copyright of a particular design then a couple of factors may be crucial in determining the copyright protection: one, is PD's new expression of the idea (i.e. the Ferrari car) sufficiently different so as to qualify as a new, unique expression (like perhaps the grill and name change in The Racers) and, two, what is the duration of the copyright for a design that is no longer being produced? Certainly, PD couldn't model an F40 or Enzo and put it in the game, but what about a 1958 250TR Testa Rossa or 1963 250 GTO?

Possibly, PD could render older-model Ferraris and Maseratis and Lamborghinis and call them "Italias," for instance, and Porsches and call them "Rennsports?"
 
It slightly detracts from the realism though. I agree, and it has been done before with the F1 cars, but I'm not so sure many people and indeed PD will accept that idea willingly.
 
Polyphony001
It slightly detracts from the realism though. I agree, and it has been done before with the F1 cars, but I'm not so sure many people and indeed PD will accept that idea willingly.
Well, I can only speak for myself. My favorite Ferrari of all time was the 1964 LM-bodied 250 GTO. A neighbor of mine owned one and I used to volunteer to help hand wash it just so I could drool all over it. :D Anyway, there was no way that I was ever going to own and/or drive that car outside of virtual reality. However, put me behind the "wheel" of a 1964 LM-bodied 250 GTO lookalike in GT5 and let me dice it out on the Nurburgring with 289 FIA Cobras and Daytona coupes, a Corvette Grand Sport, perhaps a Thomas Cheetah, and an Alfa GTZ or Porsche 904 or two and I don't care what PD calls it (e.g. the "Italia 250 GTO"), it would be the next best thing to the real deal (to me).

The other night I rewatched for the umpteenth time Steve McQueen's Le Mans. If I could race at Le Mans (aka Sarthe I and II) in a J.W. Automotive Engineering Gulf "Rennsport" 917K or Langdeck against an "Italia" 512S, a Lola T70 Mk. III Chevrolet or Aston Martin, an Alfa Romeo T33, a Matra and, maybe, a tricked-out Corvette (as in the movie), would it "ruin" it for me? Not on your life.

As I said, though, I can only speak for me, but I'd buy a game featuring those cars -- by whatever name, like the rose -- in a heartbeat!
 
You do realise that for a perfect replica of a copyrighted design/product to be sold you 100% need permission from the holder of the image or your breaing the law, in the case of companies offering perfect replica's they have licenses to offer such kit's. However the average (if not all) MR2 based F355 replica isn't close enough to the design and proportions of a real F355 for it to breach copyright, the car is smaller and theres normally plenty of design differences though many may be subtle. You can't argue with the fact that design and image can be copyrighted and that car companies do that. Like I said before, do you think Nissan could legally make an identical car to the Honda NSX and sell it as a Nissan MES without Honda's permission first? Now apply that same principal to a virtual NSX, could PD make a virtual NSX and call it the PD MES? Here's a clue, the answers are the same. Now apply it to the Ferrari case, and its the same answer again.

kit_fisto made a very good point about making look-a-likes of cars that are no longer under copyright, that's perfectly legal, however, who's betting Ferrari have kept hold of the copyrights for cars like the 250TR and GTO. Many basic shaps and designs for cars cannot be copyrighted, and never could be. Such as the concept of a 4 wheeled car, you cant copyright something like that. But you can copyright individual body panelsif they are different enough from any non copyrighted panels, it all get's rather complex and for the sake of a long post you can ultimately have a company that has Car A, the name of the car copyrighted as The Compnay Car A, the image of the car is copyrighted to the extent that the front facia, the rear, the doors and the bonnet are copyrighted, but the roof, the profile and the front/rear wings are not ect.

As an example, the MR2 replica you linked is top and a real F355 is below it, they arn't exact replica's, the proportions are different, infact every panel is different, not a single body panel on that car matches the proportions of the equivilent panel on the Ferrari.
7509-9.jpg

Ferrari%20F355%20P2%202.jpg
 
The MR2 replica looks pretty nice though. In fact i still kinda like the design of the replica MORE then the REAL Ferrari.
 
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