Ferrari in GT? Not a chance.

[McLaren]

Any word on whether they'll use a licensed tuner of Ferrari?

Koenig would be pleasant.

Can't. Hamann, Novitec, Koenig, can't do it.

All their car's names tie in with Ferrari, BMW, Porsche, and Lamborghini's rights.

You can't put in a Hamann F430 because F430 is a trademark name for Ferrari.

Same with the Koenig 550 Maranello. In the car industry, these names are pretty much "copyrighted."

 

[MustangSVT]

I've heard from more than one source that EA's exclusive contract is about up, and someone pointed out that Porsche's and Ferrari's are appearing in other games, like PGR. I'll have to check out PGR3 and see if it's a "Microsoft Studios" game. I'm pretty sure Forza is an EA game rebadged.

You couldn't be anymore wrong. PGR3 is a Bizzare Studious game, just like PGR1 and PGR2 and Metropolis Street Racing.

And Forza Motorsport is not a EA game rebadged. The game doesn't even bear any resemblance to any of the EA racing games. You clearly haven't played the game if you think it bears any resemblance to say NFS U2 or NFS Most Wanted.

The July 2005 edition of EGM magainze said that Forza Motorsport had "...cars that you actually want to drive." Well, what if Ferrari and Porsche were out of Forza? Would you buy that game, Niels?

But Ferrari and Porsche are not out of Forza. Besides the fact that FM has about every kind of Ferrari and Porsche you'd want (not just 2 or 3 models, but like 10 models for Porsche, and like 15-20 for Ferrari), it's the fact that the developers at Microsoft Game Studious learned from the mistakes of the Gran Turismo franchises and listened to the fans and paid all the licensing to get Ferrari and Porsche. Now about the damage, that's whole other deal with FM, and I'm sure if GT4 was on Xbox, it would had damage. But seeing as how GT is going into its 5th iteration, and I know they could have gotten Porsche and Ferrari (and possibly Bugatti, at least the Dauer EB110) and they still haven't, I've lost confidence that GT could do what Forza did.

From my understanding, PGR2 and Forza and now PGR3 have Ferrari and Porsche (in case of PGR3, McLaren and Lambo, but RUF instead of Porsche due to EA exclusive) because EA's license of Ferrari and Porsche had expired when PGR2 and Forza were made, and Bizzare Studios and Microsoft paid the expensive licensing fees. So from what I understand, GT coulda had Porsche and Ferrari just like PGR2 did. But they chose that paying them wouldn't bring any extra profit (i.e. would just cost a bit more in the end). Well seeing as they sell a ton amount of copies anyway, it just lets you thinking that they coulda gotten what people had been asking for, but they didnt, whereas Forza and PGR2 (and PGR3) did even though it cost them more, but its what the fans want.

Now if I'm wrong, then please somebody correct me if I am wrong. maybe I'm missing something here and Microsoft had a exclusive with Ferrari and Porsche (and now with Lambo and MacF1? since they're in PGR3), and that's how they were able to get Ferrari and Porsche into PGR2 and Forza. But from what I know, PD just didn't want to pay the extra money to get them.

Anyway I can't emphasize enough how wrong that guy who thinks FM is a rebadged EA game. Completely and utterly wrong.

By the way, I think Race Driver 2 had some Koenigs and some other Diablo in it (under some kind of tuner license).

 

[McLaren]

The only thing FM and EA share is the destructive AI. That's it.

Now, PGR2 was released in 2003. EA had the rights then. Anyone could get the "Big 3", but the catch was that EA was going to get a lot of the "transaction" cash from it besides the manufacturers. Of course, Microsoft has enough to money to rival EA, so naturally, they paid it.

Now everyone says EA has BMW and that's why it's not in PGR3....Ok, honestly, how many BMW models do you think could actually rival the cars in PGR3 that have power like those? Possibly the M1, M3 GTR, or Z8, but it's possible they could have been "passed up." I mean, the SL65 could rival many of the cars, but it's not in. Only the CLK-GTR and SLR made it in from Merc.

Here's the truth it appears. EA has none of them.
How? Eden Atari. I doubt a company like Atari could really pay off EA to have Porsche.

How so? Test Drive. It is possible MS could have used it rights to gain Lamborghini, Ferrari, Ruf, etc. again. But how can MS have Ferrari rights, when a new F1 game for the PS3 and the new OutRun have Ferrari in them?

Simple thing is...no one has any anyone else which leaves Polyphony in good situation. As GT5 is still in development and possibly far from release, this gives them the chance to ask Ferrari, Porsche, or whoever for rights.

 

[Tenacious D]

Err... if I understand you right - my poor addiction to late night surfing is getting the better of me - the window is open due to contracts expiring, allowing game developers to jump on the Big Three car makers for rights to their cars.

But even if I'm getting this wrong, money is sufficient to get them anyway. Hrm, Sony is rich...

 

[JohnBM01]

But wait... listening to fans in regards of Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini? Either PD tries to put them in or don't care less about them. You can blame a company for a number of issues, but bashing a company for failing to put in these brands is completely ludicrous. In fact, let me quote you, MustangSVT:

But Ferrari and Porsche are not out of Forza. Besides the fact that FM has about every kind of Ferrari and Porsche you'd want (not just 2 or 3 models, but like 10 models for Porsche, and like 15-20 for Ferrari), it's the fact that the developers at Microsoft Game Studious learned from the mistakes of the Gran Turismo franchises and listened to the fans and paid all the licensing to get Ferrari and Porsche." -"MustangSVT", 3/25/2006, 2:01 AM EST

Well, I meant to ask, "what if Forza didn't have Ferrari and Porsche?" instead of "what if Ferrari and Porsche were out of Forza?". This has been my problem in terms of bonding with the mainstream. (The following text will sound redundant to some people. If you are easily offended, please skip to the next paragraph and disregard this text. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.) This is why I've stayed away from most sports car talk in terms of Gran Turismo. The debate is usually very strong, leads to several arguments, and the only place a discussion will go is nowhere. I don't care too much about 70% sports cars, 30% everything else. I want to see these companies represented myself. Thing is, I'm not like "no Ferrari, no investment in GT5." GT was never about specific companies being marketed in its games. This is true even considering "50 Skylines," "30 Lancers," and a bunch of Kei cars. It isn't like sports cars are almost forgotten in GT games. GT4 had the Ford GT and Saleen S7 for Christ's sake! It also had the Mercedes SLR McLaren, a racing variant of the McLaren F1, some Aston Martins, Ruf's quality cars, the Spyker C8 Laviolette, the love-it-or-hate-it Cizeta, Dodge Vipers, all or most super sports cars. So it isn't like GT isn't for exotic and super cars. I always wanted great racing before worrying about the cars. At one point while I was maturing as a car fan, I was the sports car/supercar type. I wanted a late 1990s Camaro Z28 for my first car. Then my interests changed over time. I still liked many major sports cars and major sports car companies, but I wasn't obsessed with them. So the typical mainstream "fanboy" would prefer bigtime autos in games, since life is too short for everyday vehicles that many more people can afford and enjoy just as much. The big names will sell in a game. The quality of racing and fun of GT games is what keeps me hooked to them. I've lived without Ferrari and Porsche, and not once have I wanted to only buy a racing game because it has a car that looks like or is a certain sports car from a certain sports car maker. I've taken my time with cars in these games, so it isn't like I only want the fastest things first. The sports car/exotic car obsession has really unnerved me among media types and mainstream gamers. I obviously don't feel bad about the car selection simply because I'm not looking for only cars that can go past 150mph or costs more than $50K. Just because I'm not a mainstream type doesn't mean I have to believe in or make the same complaints others do. If I don't want to be obsessed with seeing these companies in GT5, that's my decision and not for you to bash me because I'm not supporting your cause.

That's why I haven't stressed this issue. I've always been about good cars IN ADDITION to good sports cars, not "only sports cars are meant to be driven in racing games." Not having these companies in a game shouldn't be a complaint. It's more of personal taste that only amounts to wet dreams and "jus STFU, noob John. I hat ur long azz posts." Okay, I'm a voodoo doll, so punish me any way you can because of what I said.

 

[Badsight]

i dont care if the names are bogus

incorrect names doesnt stop Pro Evolution Soccer from being the best soccer game

if PD doesnt want to pay - they should add exact replica's with copyright dodging names . its perfectly legal . just ask around Plastic Moddler's web-site over Grumman WW2 aircraft

PD has to be aware of how much Lambo's & Ferrari's are wanted

 

[Badsight]

JohnBM01 , people like performance

Ferrari's & Lambo's have strog support from many fans

you have to deal with this : "its not wrong to want the best cars"

you cant play GT & not come into contact with cars that are more mundane - slow cars are littered thru the games races - i dont know why you feel the need to defend the big-3's absence , but you do it everytime , seemingly just to be some sort of opposing vioce in PD's behalf

well stuff that - they need to just add them & be done with it - making excuses wont help matters any

if Forza didnt have cars from those 3 manufacturers , would it be as cool a game ?

no because content is a big part of these types of racing games - cars & tracks . if GT4 was to get cars from these 3 - it automatically would be a better game straight away compared to having them missing

 

[McLaren]

Which shows how sad many gamers are.

The Big 3 don't make a game. Sure, they help, but they aren't needed.

Gran Turismo has made the Greatest Hits with all 4 titles without the Big 3. I'm sure GT5 will continue this achievement with or without Ferrari, Porsche, or Lamborghini.

Did you happen to forget the supercars he mentioned?
People may not see the Big 3, but with every installment, another and even faster super car gets in. Hell, it's expected that Koenigsegg could be in GT5.

 

[Danny]

Hmm can't PD just find some Chinese car that looks identical to a Ferrari?

Also, the Hyundai Coupe (Tiburon, Tucani, whatever) bears a looks of 456GT.
Are you people not satisfied? Korean Powah!

 

[Niels]

Thing is, I'm not like "no Ferrari, no investment in GT5." GT was never about specific companies being marketed in its games.

But this is what brings your whoollle post down m8. A game will become better over it's predecesor if it has SEVERAL good new features.
ONE of those features is Ferrari Lambo and Porsche, that feature is really wanted. But NO ONE thinks like "no Ferrari, no investment in GT5". But it seems like you cannot accept it's just a wanted feature either.

Just because I'm not a mainstream type doesn't mean I have to believe in or make the same complaints others do. If I don't want to be obsessed with seeing these companies in GT5, that's my decision and not for you to bash me because I'm not supporting your cause.

Thats the other way around. John, you are bashing all the people that just want to see Ferrari's Lambo's and Porsches. Your opinion has been very clear after dozens of posts like the one I am quoting now. No one has ever said to you that you should change your opinion about it, you HAVE said that to others though and thats something you have to stop.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, I just HAVE to drive a Ferrari Enzo in a GT game soon. I will still buy the game either way but the sports cars GT4 has: Pagani, Ford GT, the McLaren/Mercedes, Saleen S7, are 4 cars that really define "Super car".
Aston Martin is a real GT car but not a super car.
The 4 supercars ingame are crap, I saw topgear yesterday and it was about 3 super cars: Ford GT, Pagani Zonda, and a Ferrari. I was drooling over the orange Pagani but then when I bought the Pagani S in GT4 and drove it, it was plain crap and it was just terrible, braking meant just going off-track in a really unique weard fashion. I know the Ford GT isn't really good either with wortheless brakes, RUF has some almost-super cars but they still dont feel like super cars, the Saleen has just too much terrible spin plus I think it looks terrible. And the McLaren Mercedes just has far too much weight.

Super cars in GT so far are just...👎 A real factor GT lacks in.
Plus I just want to drive a damn Ferrari Enzo, and other unforgiving Super Cars that snap if you give a tad too much gas. They are supposed to be the most exciting cars in the world but in GT they're the most boring and worthless cars so far.

Now PD could finally decide to change that but they can also pick the easy direction and keep the supercar part of the game just boring.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we're done with the stupid part of GT4, the licenses for Ferrari Lambo and Porsche just have to be supported with numbers. The shape must be "locked" in numbers, with wich you can defend your rights. Just let PD take those sizes and alter every shape with 0.00005mm outside the liscence. If PD wanted to do that they could Even support the small 0.00005mm, cause it's 0.00005 outside the liscence wich means it's their car.
Ferrari couldn't say "Oh but 0.00005millimeter is practically nothing", they're right but this is all theory.

Another thing, why does NFSMW have a BMW while PD should have the BMW rights?

 

[Jedi2016]

Going back to the Forza/PGR thing, I was always under the impression that EA's "exclusive" license was for the Playstation 2 only. That other developers could get their own licenses, and use the cars, only so long as the game wasn't made available on the PS2.

Go look at the history of those three cars on PS2. The only non-EA game on PS2 that's ever featured Ferrari was F355.. a first-gen port of a Dreamcast port of an arcade game. For five years, it's been EA or nothing. Until now, with the upcoming Outrun 2006. Why do you think I want that game? Sure, I enjoy Outrun's gameplay, but that's outweighed by the fact that I get to drive a frikkin' Enzo for the first time.

It's obvious that the main reason EA locked up those licenses for so long on PS2 was because of GT. GT was, and remains, the biggest threat to the NFS franchise. I think that's also why they've been changing things up so much lately, with this whole "street racing" BS they've been spewing out the last few years.

The real telltale is going to be what other games on PS3 feature these cars. We already know it's non-EA exclusive, because of Test Drive and PGR on the Xbox360. But we don't yet know if it's system-exclusive or not, whether EA or Microsoft has done something stupid this generation.

If we see a non-EA game on PS3 that has Ferrari or Lambo, that will pretty much settle it right there.. that the licenses are up for grabs. Then it's just a question of whether PD will nab them. Which I think is highly likely, since KY himself has stated a desire to have them in the game, but previous licensing restrictions always prevented it.

The problem is that if PD doesn't get those licenses, chances are that no one will. That EA will continue to use great cars in crappy games. That we'll again be denied the chance to drive these cars in a simulation environment for an entire generation.

I agree with Niels... I'll be excited about GT5 no matter what, and I'll be there on release day to get it. But I'll be more excited about it if I get to drive those cars.

There's that fine line there, John... on the one side, you have the "I don't care about F/L/P" crowd (which is quite a small crowd), and on the other side you have the "I won't buy GT5 without F/L/P" crowd.. which I believe has a current population of zero, as Niels mentioned. What you're missing is the third crowd.. the one right in the middle, where 95% of GTP fits into. The "I'd like to see 'em, but I'll buy the game either way" crowd. Yes, I'll buy GT5, and yes, I'll love the hell out of it. At the same time, I won't be able to stop being slighly disappointed if I can't drive the cars I want.

And believe me, those aren't the only cars I'd like to see in GT5. Just once, I'd like to be able to drive my car in the game. I'd like to take a Trans Am for a spin sometime. I'd like to be able to do a lot of things that none of the GT games have allowed me to do. But I play them anyway.

 

[MustangSVT]

if Forza didnt have cars from those 3 manufacturers , would it be as cool a game ?

Yes it would. I may be alone on this and only Forza fans will agree with me, but my opinion is that Forza improved on what GT had made mistakes on in the past (i.e. no more competitions with crappy cars, more realistic tuning, choosing car eligible to a race on the fly, faster menus, and on top of that, paying those extra licensing fees and money to EA to get Ferrari and Porsche in which fans wanted and also having a huge selection of supercars which I'm interested in). That to me is listening to the fans.

Now I don't want to argue with anyone, but I bought a second hand PS2 solely for GT4 (and Enthusia and Devil May Cry), and while I really do like GT4 with the DFP now that I have one and I don't think it coulda been a better game had it had the big 3, I think the guys at PD haven't listened to the fans enough. Fans (like me) want in-car view, we want Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, BMW, Mercedes, McLaren etc. The only big cars that Forza doesn't have were Lamborghini (maybe still under EA exclusive at the time, I don't know), McLaren (same deal, I don't know), Merc SL/CL series, and BMW's (M3, M5). On the other hand, it looks to me like they listened to the fans, and Forza improved all what GT4 shoulda improved on predecessors (online, good AI, more specific eligible car races, etc.), and with PGR3, while PGR3 is no sim, they have in-car dashboard, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, RUF, the Sledgehammer and many many amazing cars. The only downside is that with RUF, you don't get the big Porsche cars and this was my main complaint about substituting RUF for Porsche in GT series. By using RUF you don't get the Carrera GT, the 959 or such, since RUF doesn't make them. Oh well I guess I'll have to live with RUF in PGR3.

 

[Tenacious D]

Err... the A.I. in Forza is just bizarre. If you thought the bots in GT4 played bumper cars, you need to give Forza a spin. Oh my God, the Need For Speed code rears its ugly fender...

But anyway John, I think we've all answered you a number of times. I'm one more voice that says, one more time, yes I'll buy Gran Turismo 5 no matter what. Big Three, no Big Three, I'll still buy it and loove it.

I will have to say that there were several things kind of avalanching me into buying an XBox just to play Forza - woulda bought a 360 but the things are as rare as diamons here in the states, and as pricey, yikes! Anyway, one of them is seeing that Ferrari name in the car list. Now they aren't the cars of God or anything, and I do prefer to drive my custom rides a little bit more, but darn it feels good to have a few Ferraris waiting for me when I get the virtual moolah.

 

[Badsight]

you dont play games like GT or Forza just because the handeling physics are cool

content is a factor , more content = a more fun game

all other things being the same

 

[RawLing]

This may seem a bit rude, but I'm done with the whole "not being able to drive Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinis" in GT. If those auto makers want to sign exclusive agreements than so be it — their dumb mistake.

I say "forget those mules." Go and look at the thread of the GT5 car wish list. Hundreds and hundreds of cars that are not Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini — it would take you two years just to run one lap in each car!

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

 

[Tenacious D]

you dont play games like GT or Forza just because the handeling physics are cool

Err.... well, I do. You don't??

In any case, I think like.... Jedi? Niels?? Oh poo gas, someone above said.
We're all in agreement that GT5 will be a game we'll all save pennies to get. We'll all fire it up, we'll all have to pick ourselves off the floor, and we'll all be glued to our controllers way too long. Whether the Big Three are in it or not. And especially if Career Mode, racing conversion and a paint shop are a part of the package. Wooo...

 

[Badsight]

if realistic cars didnt matter then a game like LFS would be number one

Forza & GT replicate real cars & (some) real tracks

like i said - these games are not just played because the handeling is so good - its also about the cars

 

[McLaren]

But this is what brings your whoollle post down m8. A game will become better over it's predecesor if it has SEVERAL good new features.
ONE of those features is Ferrari Lambo and Porsche, that feature is really wanted. But NO ONE thinks like "no Ferrari, no investment in GT5". But it seems like you cannot accept it's just a wanted feature either.



Thats the other way around. John, you are bashing all the people that just want to see Ferrari's Lambo's and Porsches. Your opinion has been very clear after dozens of posts like the one I am quoting now. No one has ever said to you that you should change your opinion about it, you HAVE said that to others though and thats something you have to stop.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, I just HAVE to drive a Ferrari Enzo in a GT game soon. I will still buy the game either way but the sports cars GT4 has: Pagani, Ford GT, the McLaren/Mercedes, Saleen S7, are 4 cars that really define "Super car".
Aston Martin is a real GT car but not a super car.
The 4 supercars ingame are crap, I saw topgear yesterday and it was about 3 super cars: Ford GT, Pagani Zonda, and a Ferrari. I was drooling over the orange Pagani but then when I bought the Pagani S in GT4 and drove it, it was plain crap and it was just terrible, braking meant just going off-track in a really unique weard fashion. I know the Ford GT isn't really good either with wortheless brakes, RUF has some almost-super cars but they still dont feel like super cars, the Saleen has just too much terrible spin plus I think it looks terrible. And the McLaren Mercedes just has far too much weight.

Super cars in GT so far are just...👎 A real factor GT lacks in.
Plus I just want to drive a damn Ferrari Enzo, and other unforgiving Super Cars that snap if you give a tad too much gas. They are supposed to be the most exciting cars in the world but in GT they're the most boring and worthless cars so far.

Now PD could finally decide to change that but they can also pick the easy direction and keep the supercar part of the game just boring.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we're done with the stupid part of GT4, the licenses for Ferrari Lambo and Porsche just have to be supported with numbers. The shape must be "locked" in numbers, with wich you can defend your rights. Just let PD take those sizes and alter every shape with 0.00005mm outside the liscence. If PD wanted to do that they could Even support the small 0.00005mm, cause it's 0.00005 outside the liscence wich means it's their car.
Ferrari couldn't say "Oh but 0.00005millimeter is practically nothing", they're right but this is all theory.

Another thing, why does NFSMW have a BMW while PD should have the BMW rights?

Oh boo hoo.

So the Zonda and the rest drive like crap.

1) You think these cars are any easier to drive in real life? Be thankful PD didn't go all GTR on this game (Actually, don't). Otherwise, it would take a lot of us a while to gain control of ANY sports car in the game.

2)PD has never been known for making a car act 100%. Then again, I'd rather have a challenging Zonda drive than some ass-made easy-to-drive Forza Zonda.

Good god man, look at the real Saleen S7. You think that actually just launches like a normal car? Hell no! Any car like that will have terrible wheelspin if you just smash the throttle. And GT can be overcome.
Oh and the SLR...guess what, man, it's a GRAND TOURER. Of course it's going to be a pig, it's got luxury built with it.

You think a S7 isn't forgiving?
Put it this way, if an Enzo makes it into GT5 and it acts like the supercars of GT4, it'll be just as boring. An S7 keeps you on your nerves, 24/7 when you drive it.

BTW, don't tell me you're basing that a Zonda will drive in real life the way it did in GT4 after watching a TV Show.
Trust me, the Zonda is just as unforgiving. The reason the Zonda's stink is because they're not like the real thing at all.

BMW is not a company to be held down by 1. And there would be no point for PD to pay extra to hold down BMW.

You're just another person who wants to see Ferrari in the game. You think a Ruf isn't supercar enough? Tell that to the Yellowbird which is faster than a F40, Countach, and 959.

 

[drprince89]

i agree with you mclaren i think that handling is a big important part of the game, but they really havent made it 100 percent lifelike..

 

[Wolfe]

This may seem a bit rude, but I'm done with the whole "not being able to drive Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinis" in GT. If those auto makers want to sign exclusive agreements than so be it — their dumb mistake.

I say "forget those mules." Go and look at the thread of the GT5 car wish list. Hundreds and hundreds of cars that are not Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini — it would take you two years just to run one lap in each car!

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

Actually, you make a good point there. One thing that GT has done, with its more "mundane" car selection, is change everyone's perceptions about dream cars...shifting the focus from exotics and thoroughbred sportscars to sports-sedans, sports-compacts, and such...

One good example is the popularity of the Skyline, even in places where it has never been sold.

 

[McLaren]

Actually, you make a good point there. One thing that GT has done, with its more "mundane" car selection, is change everyone's perceptions about dream cars...shifting the focus from exotics and thoroughbred sportscars to sports-sedans, sports-compacts, and such...

One good example is the popularity of the Skyline, even in places where it has never been sold.

Very true.

I don't think the name "Skyline" was known at all in the US besides those who studied it or owned one before GT1.

Wasn't GT1 also responsible for the Lancer Evo. and Impreza coming to the US as well?

 

[Tenacious D]

if realistic cars didnt matter then a game like LFS would be number one
Forza & GT replicate real cars & (some) real tracks

Okay, I got you. You just mentioned "content" which could be anything.

But most of the GT and Forza guys - and obviously the GTR fans - are hollering for not just loads of cars and tracks, but what we feel is a fairly authentic racing experience, and a sense that we're buying cars, even if they're virtual ones.

I know the games which offer tons of cars right now in many different flavors, both civilian and professional, pretty much boil down to Gran Turismo and Forza. But if Forza 2 came out as a Ridge Racer or Daytona clone, you can bet that the outrage will be loud and long, and the mass exodus to Gran Turismo would populate a few countries, even if it offered more content and a fun game. Now a game like that, I'd really love to see someday.

Just not as a Forza.

Oh, and I have no doubt that Gran Turismo is responsible for the resurrection of the sports car market as it exists today. Without it, I doubt the Tiburon or Neon SRT would exist. Or that awful Fast and the Furious.

 

[JohnBM01]

Now, there's my problem. Excuse me... PD not listening with online play? They tried to implement it and until recently, online play was missing. It was the one feature people cared about GT4. Look what happened. I still can't get over "no online... in its place, a photo mode."

A thing I've always liked about Gran Turismo was "something for everyone" when it comes to cars. Do you know what my actual dream cars are? Believe them or not, I love the 360 Modena and its F430 counterpart. Why do I like these two? They are beautiful for one. On top of that, they (and I quote from the EGM guy) actually want me to push these to the limit even with modding up. If I can't have these cars or this car company in the game, I look for alternatives. I can go for something older but still quite sexy. How about a Jaguar XJ220? It remains my favorite modern Jaguar other than the previous model XKR. I may save up credits in GT4 to get a Saleen S7 (actually, get a new Saleen S7 after selling the old one). Something for everyone is a big plus to the series, but it is also a double-edged sword for many fans. The negative aspect of "something for everyone" is that people feel left out if their favorite type of car isn't expressed as well as consumer cars or whatever. It then becomes a sense of "if there's something for everyone, what about ME? What about what I want to see?" You can read for yourself: { http://www.webquad.com/forza/content/view/39/44/ }. That is Forza Motorsport's list. Then you have GT4's: { http://news.gaminghorizon.com/media/1106108281.html }. If you think I'm sucking up to GT4 and PD all the time, here's something that Forza has which GT4 doesn't- Speed World Challenge machines. They are competitive racing machines based on production vehicles, and you can race in automobiles raced by the series racers. Great semi-grassroots racing series.

I was shocked in GT4 when Bentley was in the game. Bentley is a big name company despite the fact many of today's Bentleys are super-luxurious vehicles. Only Bentley you got was the EXP Speed 8 (or whatever it's called), the BEAUTIFUL car which won its Sixth(?) Le Mans in 2003. All I've said was that I love sports cars myself, just not obsessed. First sports car I loved was the Camaro. I will also admit that big names grasp me a bit in racing games. Only supercar knock I have in GT4 is that Supercar Festival. You have to use Standard or Sports tires, which kills handling prowess and complicates driving. I also limited my NA/Turbo/Supercharger HP gains, because they only took away from my handling the despite the HP boost.

Lastly, do you expect me to believe that people wanted...

...bodykits/aesthetics in GT4 but PD never listened?
...Ferrari, Porsche, and/or Lamborghini and PD never listened?
...damage in GT4 and PD didn't listen?
...online play and PD didn't listen?

There's probably a reason why you didn't get what you wanted. Money. Agreements with other companies. Hard to implement in the game or didn't want to release it yet. It could be any of these issues or more. If they don't have the agreements or whatever, they can't do it. And if that's true, all the crying in the world isn't going to right the ship if PD can't get the basic things done.

More to come in a future post...

 

[MustangSVT]

if realistic cars didnt matter then a game like LFS would be number one

See this is where you're wrong. LFS is number one.

And no I'm not joking, I do truly like playing LFS with my wheel online better than playing Forza or GT4 or GTR or GT Legends or so on. There's no better racing experience in a game than online in LFS.

And on another note, I agree with the guy above who said that the supercars in GT4 handle crappy and that they're not satisfying. I too have watched Top Gear many times, and while I'm sure supercars aren't easy to handle, they should be more satisfying to drive. I have a DFP, and the Zonda S really feels like crap to drive. So does the S7, the McMerc SLR is OK, but still not that great.

Now I don't know how it's in real life, and maybe this is more accurate than Forza, but in Forza (and what I've played of PGR3 at the store), the supercars that they're in game like Carrera GT, Enzo and Koenigsegg CC8S, they feel more satisfying. Maybe it's not as realistic, but drifting the Carrera GT around Tsukuba similar to Clarkson in Top Gear, it just felt satisfying and more "fun". And this isn't about not having Carrera GT. Even the S7 feels a bit more satisfying.

Hopefully for you guys they will be able to work on this when they come around to this in GT5. Me, doesn't really matter to me because most likely I won't be getting GT5. At the moment I'm only interested in getting PGR3 come christmas time.

 

[Jedi2016]

Lastly, do you expect me to believe that people wanted...

...bodykits/aesthetics in GT4 but PD never listened?
...Ferrari, Porsche, and/or Lamborghini and PD never listened?
...damage in GT4 and PD didn't listen?
...online play and PD didn't listen?

There's probably a reason why you didn't get what you wanted.

Exactly. It's not that "PD isn't listening".

Bodykits - The majority don't want them.
F/L/P - Money and locked-up licenses made it impossible.
Damage - PS2 can't do it.
Online play - wasn't feasible when the game launched.

They listened, sure. You can piss and moan all day about something.. but if it's impossible, then it's impossible.

 

[Tenacious D]

I never did get to Lan play with GT4. I bought a broadband adaptor, and it pings Sony's website plenty fast over cable. But it just folds its arms and won't budge when I try to link with another PS2.

I have to say that after playing Forza for more than a week, I really dig the "ricing" aspect of the game. The body kits look good, are functional, and add some surprising appeal. And if you can mod a car in Gran Turismo to the point that it's a race car, complete with a tail wing... well, that's a load of rice right there. I'd say go ahead and put some body kits in, especially since they exist on several stock cars in the game already. With a paint shop being a no brainer for GT5, custom body panels are a tiny thing to quibble over.

 

[Niels]

So the Zonda and the rest drive like crap.

1) You think these cars are any easier to drive in real life?

So you're saying that supercars are MEANT to be crap? Driving like crap and being hard to handle is a completely different thing, and come on you knew that, you just tried to change my words to make me look dumb.

Now the Zonda, I dunno if you drove it recently, I put on N3's to make it more realistic, but ingame it doesn't step out as unforgiving as I wanted it. One thing that does make it terrible is that on N3's on Suzuka you will have to brake on the main straight before you even see the upcoming corner.

The Zonda isn't just a tricky beast, if I could I would delibiratly tune it to make it more unforgiving on the gas. But brakes are anything but supercar. Braking while turning in will give you a really crappy response, making you go sideways realllyyy slowly and you will eventually just end in the sand.

You think a S7 isn't forgiving?

Well...you tell me...I dont know, is it then?

Fact is, GT4's tyre is too unrealistic to make super cars snap when you give too much throttle. I just saw top gear with the orange pagani where richard stepped on the gas a little early and too much and DAMN that Pagani was aggresive. The Pagani in GT4 doesn't have the power of a real supercar at all, but brakes worse than a Suzuki Alto.

The Saleen has excessive wheel spin, and thats realistic, problem is that you can drive along with that wheel spin very easily, just not as fast where in real life you would struggle to keep the damn car straight. THATS what I want, not useless wheel spin that only makes you slower, not giving any kind of handling issues. The F1 car in LFS, thats fun, thats unforgiving, and thats the direction super cars are meant to go, seriously powerfull, but good at braking, instead of the other way around.

I dont think you took any time on reading and judging my post correctly at all, but laughing at my "dumb" comment about the Saleen S7. Please do that next time you reply to my message, cause it's a very arrogant post there.
Plus this is what makes me think you're extremely arrogant:

You're just another person who wants to see Ferrari in the game.

guess what, man, it's a GRAND TOURER.

"Oh no I thought it was a Suzuki"

Your a welknown guy here but next time I'm gonna report that. Seems like you are judging me because of a post about GT4 cars. Dont change it into some childish personal fight m8.

---------------------------------

John, I already thought you would like to see Ferrari and stuff ingame Everyone would like to see them. Thing is you already think it's done for and we're not gonna get them, but we might actually be very lucky to get the amazing F40's ingame

 

[MustangSVT]

The F1 car in LFS, thats fun, thats unforgiving, and thats the direction super cars are meant to go, seriously powerfull, but good at braking, instead of the other way around.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

The supercars like Saleen S7, Ford GT and Zonda S in GT4 feel "crappy", not hard to keep straight, hard to control, but crappy as in when you brake a bit in a corner, you have to go really slow, and you end up in the sand.

The F1 car (Formula XR) in LFS is a perfect example of how a supercar should feel instead of crappy. Fast, powerful, good at braking, but unforgiving and turning at high speeds is like being on a knife's edge.

 

[McLaren]

No, I didn't say that. The reason an Enzo would drive like crap in the game too is because the driving in GT4 period is crap without N3 tires.

Seriously, the Enzo, CCR, and anything else in that region would be disappointing to drive in GT4 because GT4's cars are much to forgiving.

This is why said Pagani sucks. The Paganis have sucked since they came in GT3. They're restricted WAY too much and if the game would set 'em loose, I'd probably be having a hell of time trying to beat them with a BTR.

And yes the brakes suck for pretty much all the supercars. This is a fult of GT4. It doesn't make the car unforgiving, it makes it a POS.

And I see your point now about the S7. Yes, wheelspin for any car in the game is bad because of slowing you down to 20mph, the game let's you go much much faster and be on the bumper of another car within seconds. Terribly unrealistic, and without the physics to do donuts, you can't even fishtail the car.

I will apologize for the Ferrari comment, but not the SLR comment.

You said the SLR is too heavy. Fact is bud, it's heavy in real life too. That and it's luxuries make it a grand tourer.

 

[Niels]

No, I didn't say that. The reason an Enzo would drive like crap in the game too is because the driving in GT4 period is crap without N3 tires.

Seriously, the Enzo, CCR, and anything else in that region would be disappointing to drive in GT4 because GT4's cars are much to forgiving.

This is why said Pagani sucks. The Paganis have sucked since they came in GT3. They're restricted WAY too much and if the game would set 'em loose, I'd probably be having a hell of time trying to beat them with a BTR.

And yes the brakes suck for pretty much all the supercars. This is a fult of GT4. It doesn't make the car unforgiving, it makes it a POS.

And I see your point now about the S7. Yes, wheelspin for any car in the game is bad because of slowing you down to 20mph, the game let's you go much much faster and be on the bumper of another car within seconds. Terribly unrealistic, and without the physics to do donuts, you can't even fishtail the car.

I will apologize for the Ferrari comment, but not the SLR comment.

You said the SLR is too heavy. Fact is bud, it's heavy in real life too. That and it's luxuries make it a grand tourer.

Yeah but I named that SLR one to prove that, although many people might think differently, the SLR is a GT car and not a super car, wich means we only have 3 (4 with the yellowbird) super cars ingame, that are all crappy. So yeah I would love to see some of the real super cars in GT5, with some realistic tyres with realistic sideways "pull" when spinning and good(!!!) braking.