Aussies/Kiwis : Monday Night Racing

  • Thread starter Rypien
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Well done lads - I wish I could be more of a challenge for you's......
I definitely want to improve to stop this Australian frieght train from claiming the top spots all the time.
*I wonder if GT5 will come with road spikes as an option?*
 
Thanks Chris :) 👍

Look forward to the new schedule this week!

Edit: Here are the new events.

Expert Events

PP550/FWD Eiger North
PP550/RWD Suzuka Circuit
PP600/AWD High Speed Ring
PP700 Fuji F
PP800 Daytona Speedway World Event
 
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Ok... first I gotta say that I'm far from impressed with the new events! I personally find 5-lappers to be a bit mickey-mouse... horrible, nasty, sprinty-stuff, that feel about as arcady as "Out Run" (...those of a particular vintage will remember that vid game, I'm sure)!

But enough bleating, here's a provisional combo list:

Race 1 - Fuji PP700, 10 laps, Ferrari F430 '06 vs Nissan R35 GT-R '07, racing tyres only

Race 2 - Suzuka PP550/RWD, 5 laps, Lotus Elise 111R '04 vs Renault Clio Sport V6 '00, racing tyres only

Race 3 - Fuji PP700, 10 laps, racing tyres only, see below for cars

Race 4 - Suzuka PP550/RWD, 5 laps, Lotus Elise 111R '04 vs Renault Clio Sport V6 '00, racing tyres only

Race 5 - Fuji PP700, 10 laps, Ferrari F430 '06 vs Nissan R35 GT-R '07, racing tyres only


Notes:
Race 4 - Racers must use the car they did not use in Race 2
Race 5 - Racers must use the car they did not use in Race 1

Race 3 - I'd like you guys to pick one of the following... Ferrari F40 '92 or Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo or Gran Turismo 350Z RS (selected principally because we already have tunes for them). I'm going to ask for a show of hands, a count to be taken at 12.00am (AET), tomorrow (Jul 31), so that folks running SAR have some time to get prepped. I appreciate that it's not a great deal of time for input, but that's all we have :)

And before you all go bonkers, screaming F40! F40! F40!... try it out... it's still a mighty handful :crazy:

Edit... voting so far:

Ferrari F40 '92 -- 4
Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo -- 1
Gran Turismo 350Z RS -- 0

Post mirrored here at TORC
 
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I want the F40!:D:lol: I love driving that "thing".:lol:

Great schedule, looking forward to it. Can't make SAR....as usual. This time due to Going out with the NSW Cobra Car Club on a club drive. Have fun at SAR fella's, see you at MNR, or possibly tomorrow night if you guys want to race with the SCR guys. BTW, We have posted the theme in our SCR group. So check it out if you want to come.👍
 
*Not going bonkers* I'm voting for the Amuse S2000, but I wouldn't be fussed if the F40-majority rules :D

Don't worry, I've got nothing against the F40... aside from Lion-Face beating my F430 with it yesterday at Fuji PP700 :lol:
 
Yeah 5 lappers do tend to become crazy, get to the front as quick as possible races where as the 10 lappers give everybody more time. Happy though to have 10 laps at fuji for a change.

I like the new schedule with the car vs car approach 👍

So are both the lotus & clio the tuned versions?

For race 3 I'm happy with either the F40 or 350z but probably lean more towards F40 just because we've been racing the 350z quite a bit recently so something new would be good.

Lastly, I brought it up a few weeks ago but what does everybody think about removing that 'minimum 2 SAR/MNR drivers for points' rule?

As said, I can understand why at first it was introduced but it really does punish drivers who do absolutely everything right. If we all can agree that each of us wouldn't intentionally crash into each other & create accidents then surely we can further that to know each of us wouldn't purposely miss the start time just to get a 'free win'.
 
supersonic-88
So are both the lotus & clio the tuned versions?
Click to expand...
I actually tested the 'un-tuned' versions last night, 3 laps per car, and got both rides to low 2:17s very easily. It didn't occur to me try the tuned versions (I was in a hurry, to make sure I got the schedule out there). I'm happy with how the 'un-tuned' versions handle (good cars at PP550), and their parity, but if people are very keen to run the 'tuned' rides (do they fit well into PP550?), I could maybe look at them tomorrow morning.

supersonic-88
Lastly, I brought it up a few weeks ago but what does everybody think about removing that 'minimum 2 SAR/MNR drivers for points' rule?
Click to expand...
I can't argue with your logic, Sonic, other than to say that, as split fields are beyond anyone's control, we may "...punish drivers who do absolutely everything right" if we take away those points. Over a 5 week period, I think it's extremely difficult from keeping the cream from rising to the top - for the most part, our overall points seem to be a good reflection of our talent, plus the number of races we entered.

For sure, B, as one of the 'creamiest' :), you would prolly still beat me if I DID sandbag on the start time every race, so I'm not really getting a sense of the issue here. That said, if the consensus is "lose the rule", it'll be gone 👍
 
I agree that yes, the better drivers may overcome things like that but the logic, at least to me, doesn't make sense? :confused:

On one hand we say 'we trust the current drivers that they will not purposely crash into each other or create accidents so if it does happen, you know it's not on purpose'.

Then on the other hand with that rule in place it says 'We don't trust the current drivers to some point as they may purposely miss a race so as they are by themselves & get a free win'.

To me that seems like we're saying yes we trust you, no we don't?

Of course this happens only in rare cases & in most scenarios, there will be at least 2 drivers 👍 That doesn't mean it won't happen however, which it has in the last few weeks. What would happen if the points all came down to one result over the weeks where a driver lost overall because he ended up by himself in a race through no fault of his own.

Like you I'm happy to go with what everybody else wants :) and of course the points are there more for fun but nevertheless if points are going to be on offer, then the rules should be fair to everybody.
 
Don't mind if the 2 drivers in a race rule goes, but in its place how many driver are then required to constitute an official race? 3, 4, more?

Seems to me the current practice of including the best results of SAR & MNR is a good way to let the most people participate. But I notice the number of zeros in the week results. Some drivers are not able to participate every weekend and I think the resulting points outcome distorts things.

A truer measure might be to record the driver points results for all the weekends, but then for the final tally take the top 2 weeks scores of each driver, average them and create the finishing ladder from those numbers. Any thoughts?

Re this months event program the choice is good. Like the 2 cars once each same track idea. But please advise early if Clio & Lotus are the tuned or non tuned cars (I don't mind which, but the non tuned would offer drivers the most options at the 550PP level).

Re the which car for race 3 discussion. I don't mind the F40, it can be fun, but pity the LM ain't there, way funner on Fuji at this PP level, very whoops where's yr underpants, and faster than the F40. It would be nice to have at least one full on race car in the mix for the month.

That said congrats Chris. It's a good mix.
 
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Currently it stands at 2 drivers are needed for a race to be declared. As it is, it really hurts any driver who through no fault of his own, ends up by himself in a race. I was aiming for, as long as you turn up and enter the race on time, whether there is nobody else or 10 other drivers, you get your points.

However after thinking it through, if the 2 drivers rule must stay, that's ok however what about the half-points stuff we talked about months ago came into play. If you end up by yourself in a race, you get half points. At least that way a driver who has done nothing wrong will still get some points, while a cheater who has purposely missed a race, will not get the full amount. Currently a win is 25 so half would be 12.5. That's basically a 4th place finish. A cheater has a better chance of getting more points racing correctly so in theory, they wouldn't bother missing the race.

On the cars, I think too that probably the non-tuned versions would be better at 550pp. You'd have to detune the tuned versions so much that it'd be no fun :P
 
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I'm an idiot, Sonic... or can't read... or both :ouch:

I thought you wanted to do away with points for small racer groups, not that you wanted points awarded to the sole, no-fault-of-his-own, racer... my bad!

Ok... how's this:

1 Racer(s) -- 10 pts (equiv 4th place of full grid)
2 Racer(s) -- racers contest 15 pts & 10 pts (equiv 3rd & 4th place of full grid)
3 Racer(s) -- racers contest 20 pts, 15 pts & 10 pts (equiv 2nd, 3rd & 4th place of full grid)
4 Racer(s) -- constitutes full grid & full points are available

vrrm... your points system has plenty of merit 👍, but I'd be really keen to have drivers know their exact score on a week-by-week basis, rather than have to wait till the end of the period, where they'd get placed on count-back, or some-such thing :)

Also mate, I would have given you your LM if they hadn't gone to 'oval' at Daytona, or HSR had been 10 laps - if the F40 comes in this period, I will do my best to incorporate your baby in the next iteration...

...and that goes for anybody else too - if you'd like to see some car feature, don't be shy... pipe up... I'll be my best to accomodate :cool:

Un-tuned Elise & Clio now locked in for this period!
 
Lol I wasn't suggesting that people not see their points position each week. The current process wouldn't have to change a bit. Just add another step on the end where the best two weeks results for each driver are added together and averaged and the ladder established that way. Seems fairer to those drivers who can't make it every week.

Like the revised points for races with fewer participants, but does make the tally job harder.

I'm happy to race the F40 (my vote is for that car ahead of the 350Z, 2000 etc.
 
crazyhorse
I'm an idiot, Sonic... or can't read... or both :ouch:

I thought you wanted to do away with points for small racer groups, not that you wanted points awarded to the sole, no-fault-of-his-own, racer... my bad!
Click to expand...

:lol: It's ok, sorry if I wasn't making it clear.

crazyhorse
Ok... how's this:

1 Racer(s) -- 10 pts (equiv 4th place of full grid)
2 Racer(s) -- racers contest 15 pts & 10 pts (equiv 3rd & 4th place of full grid)
3 Racer(s) -- racers contest 20 pts, 15 pts & 10 pts (equiv 2nd, 3rd & 4th place of full grid)
4 Racer(s) -- constitutes full grid & full points are available
Click to expand...

Well as vrrm said, that probably makes it a bit more confusing. I'd be happy for:

By yourself = 10 points (basically half of a win which is equal to a 4th place finish)
2 or more drivers = full points

With 2 drivers you'll both be racing as hard as if there were 8 other drivers with you so I don't see why they'd need to get less points. My only problem was with a driver who did no wrong getting zero points. If we give em 10, that's a fair option I think.

vrrm
Lol I wasn't suggesting that people not see their points position each week. The current process wouldn't have to change a bit. Just add another step on the end where the best two weeks results for each driver are added together and averaged and the ladder established that way. Seems fairer to those drivers who can't make it every week.
Click to expand...

The idea is interesting although what chris meant I think was that even doing it that way, the results are still sort of not known until the end. Sure there is the weekly points where we can see a leader but not until the end where we would average 2 weekends, would a real leader & winner be seen.

The other problems would be that say a driver won every race in the first 2 weeks (a driver has won every race in a weekend a few times before so it can happen). That means the driver could pack it up and not race anymore for the final 2 weeks because he has the maximum points and average now for 2 weeks. He can't lose.

The other problem would be with that system is it doesn't reward consistency. I could have 2 weeks where I do great, win most of the races and then 2 shockers where I come last or down the bottom. You on the other hand drive well to 2nd-5th each week. On that system I would win although you, on a whole have driven far better than I have & on points, would be ahead of me most likely.

Perhaps your idea could be used together with the current system? Something like there are 2 final championship winners for 1st, 2nd & 3rd. One which is decided on points, one which is decided on your idea of averages. That way the points system winner is rewarded for consistency and being able to race each week, while the average winner can be rewarded for some excellent driving in selected weeks, even if they couldn't make all the races 👍
 
Good points Sonic. Getting a bit complicated though, it is after all just for fun at the moment (should be always I suppose).

When we have more control over the field it might make sense to try and stitch up a more foolproof system. My thought re averaging was just about evening the thing up in some way for the more casual participants.
 
Yeah, I guess that's the problem we have at the moment until we get a full game with a decent online mode.

Nothing is completely foolproof and there is always some part of the system that disadvantages drivers to a certain extent.

It seems that the more we try and fix those problems though, as you say, it becomes too complicated so perhaps its just better left alone & kept as simple as possible.
 
supersonic-88
...as vrrm said, that probably makes it a bit more confusing. I'd be happy for:

By yourself = 10 points (basically half of a win which is equal to a 4th place finish)
2 or more drivers = full points
Click to expand...
Ok... not complicated... a fair go for racers... too easy 👍

vrrm
My thought re averaging was just about evening the thing up in some way for the more casual participants.
Click to expand...
Bleeding-heart, tree-hugging liberal!!! ;)

While I'm only too happy to give lads who are there, on race day, every chance of being competitive if they are matched on their own (hence this rule change), fellas with committments (family related, work related, or life-style related) that keep them from the track, imho, are not expecting to be there in the final analysis... and, thb, I'm not inclined to fudge things so that they are...

...unless I get over-ruled by the majority :cool:

---

F40 locked in!

Just need to run 5-lap Suz & 10-lap Fuj so I can get a feeling for schedule timing. Race 1 start times will be as previous, but I will update the schedule later for the other races later today.

---

A thank you to all, esp. to R 'n' B, for the ideas and discussion that keep us moving forward - the support structure for this little series is awesome, and you blokes rock :cheers:
 
supersonic-88
Shouldn't the timing be the same as its still three 10 lappers & two 5 lappers?
Click to expand...
Was just concerned that 10 laps of Fuji might not require a 30 min slot, is all... :)

Anybody testing their cars online today? Fancy a few races maybe? 💡
 
The same timing schedule should work, might give a couple more mins between races which would be good.

Bleeding heart liberal hey. Didn't occur to you that I might be thinking that averaging results of the best 2 weeks rather than the whole month might make being on the podium all the more satisfying! What other purpose is there in encouraging broad participation? Huh? Huh?

Seriously I'm all for anything that lets people have a go and put a spotlight on skill.

If we ever want to develop an online application that can calculate results from participants input over a series of events let me know as I have access to people who can do can write that sort of code.
 
Ok... guys 'n' gals... we're all set for next SAR/MNR program. We continue to tickle & tease, and Keith's (Rypien's) baby continues to evolve. This time, other than the car/track combos, very little has changed from previous iterations, but there are a couple of wee tweaks, and they are as follows:

1. Previously, if a racer was unfortunate enough not to get 'matched' with another SAR/MNR competitor, they were not eligable for any points. No longer! A racer who attempts to enter a SAR/MNR race in the usual fashion, but finds themselves bumped to a grid on their own, will now receive 10 pts (equivalent to a 4th place finish).

2. We will now enter races at the half-minute mark, and on the '2s', e.g. race 1 for MNR will now start at 8:02.30 pm AET (GMT +10). Previously, we have started on the '1s' to avoid traffic, but when matching is slow, an 8:01 start may not be sufficient to separate us from randoms matching at 8:00. I'm hoping the extra 90 secs will reduce the number of randoms on our grids, and perhaps reduce the likelihood that racers will find themselves needed to apply change #1 (above). Far from a bomb-proof solution, I know, but perhaps worth a pop

-----

SAR & MNR

Car & Track combinations will be locked in for a period of time (provisionally Monday 24th Aug), and points (see below) will now be awarded to (SAR & MNR) racers finishing in the top 10 places.

Racers may run both days (Sunday & following Monday), or one of either, but will only be credited with their best finish in a particular combo for that week.

Points will be awarded as follows:

1st = 25 pts, 2nd = 20 pts, 3rd = 15 pts, 4th = 10 pts, 5th = 7 pts, 6th = 5 pts, 7th = 4 pts, 8th = 3 pts, 9th = 2 pts, and 10th = 1 point

The ethos of SAR & MNR remains the same - it's still about fun! The points are there to add fun! All the fundamentals of Gentlemen's OLR apply. Anyone driving with their head up their ass, for the sake of a point or two, will soon find that my foot follows their head... so play nice, fellas, please.

------

SAR Dates: 2nd, 9th, 16th, 23rd August
SAR Times: 3:02.30 pm (GMT +10) -- Synchronised Start Times - 3:02.30 / 3:32.30 / 3.52.30 / 4:22.30 / 4:42.30 pm (AET)

MNR Dates: 3rd, 10th, 17th, 24th August
MNR Times: 8:02.30 pm (GMT +10) -- Synchronised Start Times - 8:02.30 / 8:32.30 / 8:52.30 / 9:22.30 / 9:42.30 pm (AET)

---
Race 1 @ 3:02.30/8:02.30 pm (GMT +10)
Car - Ferrari F430 '06 vs Nissan R35 GT-R '07
Track - Fuji Speedway F (10 Laps)
Comments - Racing tyres (any combination) are manditory. All 'Quick Tune' options are adjustable to 700PP.
---
Race 2 @ 3:32.30/8:32.30 pm (GMT +10)
Car - Lotus Elise 111R '04 vs Renault Clio Sport V6 '00
Track - Suzuka Circuit (5 Laps)
Comments - Racing tyres (any combination) are manditory. All 'Quick Tune' options are adjustable to 550PP.
---
Race 3 @ 3:52.30/8:52.30 pm (GMT +10)
Car - Ferrari F40 '92
Track - Fuji Speedway F (10 Laps)
Comments - Racing tyres (any combination) are manditory. All 'Quick Tune' options are adjustable to 700PP.
---
Race 4 @ 4:22.30/9:22.30 pm (GMT +10)
Car - Lotus Elise 111R '04 vs Renault Clio Sport V6 '00
Track - Suzuka Circuit (5 Laps)
Comments - Racing tyres (any combination) are manditory. All 'Quick Tune' options are adjustable to 550PP.
---
Race 5 @ 4:42.30/9:42.30 pm (GMT +10)
Car - Ferrari F430 '06 vs Nissan R35 GT-R '07
Track - Fuji Speedway F (10 Laps)
Comments - Racing tyres (any combination) are manditory. All 'Quick Tune' options are adjustable to 700PP.

NOTE:

Race 4 - Racers must use the car they did not use in Race 2
Race 5 - Racers must use the car they did not use in Race 1

------

Thread mirrored here at TORC
 
Great stuff.
Thanks once again for the effort.
I always wondered whether the randoms that turned up were either tracking the race event thread so they could screw up our fun on purpose or as you said a possible slow load from a 00 start time.

If it gets too bad maybe we could set up the txt chat as an event requirement for SCR-MNR players to time our starts.....

Looking forward to this afternoon :)
 
That's a great idea 👍 I never thought to realise that perhaps we were getting the randoms who were actually entering at 00, 30.

I too thought perhaps the one's who somehow always ended up in our races were checking out this thread.
 
Well, the xx.x2.30 starts went ok in SAR - I think there were 3 races without randoms, which was good 👍

Some concerns over the F430, and it's match-up with the GT-R. In testing I got to hi 39s for both, but was only able to produce low/mid 41s in the race with the Prancing Horse (with a highly-strung tune, she's quick, but consistency is difficult). So I fiddled last night, mostly to dial-out the mid-engined-type sliding at 100R (thought I was losing time there). Managed that, but now, I'm losing time elsewhere, and can only manage mid 40s with my newly-crafted, well behaved tail :indiff:

I'm not massively concerned, however, as we all have to peddle both. This is just an FYI, to let people know that if they don't maintain a draft from the GT-Rs, that they may lose touch (...in actual fact, I was following vrrm's & Joe90's GT-Rs quite nicely for a lap or so, but the twitchy nature of my original tune meant it was difficult stay clean and in touch - hoping my slower, but more stable numbers will do the job tonight).

Like I say... I'm not concerned. There is an opportunity for folks here, in that if they take any points off the GT-Rs while in the Ferrari, they still have the Nissan to run themselves :cool:

Hope to see plenty of you fellas tonight... :)
 
SAR
Well so far so good - the time slot change put us in open air - the only one missing out was the person who organised it! What happened Crazyhorse?

Race1 - disconnected on the 8th lap - bugger - hero to zero
Race2 - big dive down the right to steal 2nd - if anyone was not happy with that move please let me know.
Race3 - was running last(6th) but race disconnected - waiting for stewards decision
Race4 - damn i can't remember!
Race5 - think 3rd was stolen from me!?

Had fun guys.
 
Will definitely be making it to MNR tonight, I've missed it for ages now and tonight looking to join in on the fun again! :) See ya's on the grid!
 
crazyhorse
Well, the xx.x2.30 starts went ok in SAR - I think there were 3 races without randoms, which was good 👍

Some concerns over the F430, and it's match-up with the GT-R. In testing I got to hi 39s for both, but was only able to produce low/mid 41s in the race with the Prancing Horse (with a highly-strung tune, she's quick, but consistency is difficult). So I fiddled last night, mostly to dial-out the mid-engined-type sliding at 100R (thought I was losing time there). Managed that, but now, I'm losing time elsewhere, and can only manage mid 40s with my newly-crafted, well behaved tail :indiff:

I'm not massively concerned, however, as we all have to peddle both. This is just an FYI, to let people know that if they don't maintain a draft from the GT-Rs, that they may lose touch (...in actual fact, I was following vrrm's & Joe90's GT-Rs quite nicely for a lap or so, but the twitchy nature of my original tune meant it was difficult stay clean and in touch - hoping my slower, but more stable numbers will do the job tonight).

Like I say... I'm not concerned. There is an opportunity for folks here, in that if they take any points off the GT-Rs while in the Ferrari, they still have the Nissan to run themselves :cool:

Hope to see plenty of you fellas tonight... :)
Click to expand...

The GT-R has always been good at fuji so I guess its expected. As you say though, it shouldn't be an issue as you have to drive both cars at some point so everybody has to deal with it 👍

See you tonight :)
 

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