Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)

  • Thread starter tlowr4
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What do you think about the new Internet BlackList Bill?

  • It's a load of crap! GET RID OF IT!!

    Votes: 131 67.9%
  • It's S.978 all over again. KILL IT. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!

    Votes: 57 29.5%
  • Oh finally, the US realizes that there's too much copywrited stuff going on these days. I'm happy ab

    Votes: 5 2.6%

  • Total voters
    193
The actual text of the amendment makes it more clear regarding what "freedom of speech" actually means:



U.S. citizens do have freedom of speech on the Internet, so long as they do it on their own property/website.

From the standpoint of site owner, How do you feel about this? Would it severely limit the ability of users to post pics or video on this site, or would it require an approval time period between the time something is submitted to be posted and the actual appearance of the post, or how would you approach this if it is implemented?
 
From the standpoint of site owner, How do you feel about this? Would it severely limit the ability of users to post pics or video on this site, or would it require an approval time period between the time something is submitted to be posted and the actual appearance of the post, or how would you approach this if it is implemented?
I am doubtful that GTPlanet, in its current form, would be sustainable if SOPA is passed. One infringement notice could have the domain name taken offline for days without notice, and the potential legal fees combined with loss of ad revenue would likely make the site too financially risky for me to personally operate or continue investing in.

I'm not sure people who support this law really understand the implications of its vague language.
 
I don't think pirating software because you think it's 'too expensive', is justifiable.

I download movies off the net while they still are in the cinema, you know why?

I don't want to spend $40 to see a movie I may not like.

If I like it after watching it I go see it since the version I would have watched will be a handy cam version.

Movie trailers don't show me what the movie is like because they can be rigged to show you the best parts and leave out the boring parts.

But I still do support the movie industry by buying the movies I like on bluray.
 
When you purchased a car (Assuming you have car), what did you do? Did you put your money down after a short test drive? Or did you steal one and use it for a while with the intention of buying the same model later down the track once you discovered you enjoyed the experience?
 
If Julian Assange was an American citizen, I don't think he will have the right to use the 1st Amendment.

And why is that? The issue with Assange was more he was spreading information that, often, was not suppose to shared due to contracts and other agreements. It isn't a first amendment issue so much as a violation of a separate agreement between two agencies.

I'm not sure people who support this law really understand the implications of its vague language.

Indeed, and that seems to be the issue. A lot of people just see "stop people from stealing" and stop reading there.

I download movies off the net while they still are in the cinema, you know why?

I don't want to spend $40 to see a movie I may not like.

If I like it after watching it I go see it since the version I would have watched will be a handy cam version.

Movie trailers don't show me what the movie is like because they can be rigged to show you the best parts and leave out the boring parts.

But I still do support the movie industry by buying the movies I like on bluray.

Are you serious?

Like, serious?

Would you, say, go to a restaurant and steal some food to see if you liked? Sure, it was just an appetizer, but would you do that?

Or would you steal produce from a grocery store to "sample" its quality?

Honestly, this is the worst argument I've heard for justification in a long time. Just read some reviews.

Also, how on earth is it $40 to go to a movie? Good heavens, even in LA it isn't that much. Maybe $10?
 
It's about $18 to see a movie in Aus. Of course you can go on tight arse tuesday to save a couple of bucks. :sly:
I've never got the download a movie bit and watch it in crappy quality, either pay to see it at the cinema or wait and get the dvd/blu ray.

Cheers Shaun.
 
Also, how on earth is it $40 to go to a movie? Good heavens, even in LA it isn't that much. Maybe $10?

In Australia things are over priced, plus where the movie complex is their no parking so I have to pay for parking which is about half the cost of the movie.
$20 for movie ticket, $10 for parking and $10 for food.
 
In Australia things are over priced, plus where the movie complex is their no parking so I have to pay for parking which is about half the cost of the movie.
$20 for movie ticket, $10 for parking and $10 for food.

You could, I dunno, consider addressing the other points of what we posted.

Maybe.

Or side step and discuss the fact you apparently have to pay for parking and over priced food when you go to a movie.
 
You could, I dunno, consider addressing the other points of what we posted.

Maybe.

Or side step and discuss the fact you apparently have to pay for parking and over priced food when you go to a movie.

I have to pay for parking due to the stupid council.

Even if I was to smuggle some food from a supermarket that is still $5 so $35 for one night.

And if I don't like the movie that is money wasted.
 
I have to pay for parking due to the stupid council.

Even if I was to smuggle some food from a supermarket that is still $5 so $35 for one night.

And if I don't like the movie that is money wasted.

I don't think that going to the Cinema is simply going to see a movie, it is a social occasion. At least when I do it it's often followed by a meal or a couple of drinks somewhere with whoever I went with. £20-25 (So around $30-40) is usually enough to cover the cost and i'd say that is quite reasonable. The same amount for a DVD or Blu-ray however, would be quite unreasonable, which is why I wait for the price to go down.
 
I am doubtful that GTPlanet, in its current form, would be sustainable if SOPA is passed. One infringement notice could have the domain name taken offline for days without notice, and the potential legal fees combined with loss of ad revenue would likely make the site too financially risky for me to personally operate or continue investing in.

I'm not sure people who support this law really understand the implications of its vague language.

That is much what I feared. Thanks for your reply.
 
I worked in the education sector. Schools don't issue projects that require 30k software to complete. If they do, the software is supplied on school machines. Companies like Adobe/Autodesk have steep educational discounts on software if you want to use it at home.

Autocad isn't designed to be played around with on home computers by children. It's designed to be used by professionals, 12 hours a day, on million dollar projects. 2k is a drop in the bucket.


You learned math. Congratulations.

At last count I had ~40 PS3 games, x $80 on average for PS3 games, I've spent $3200 on PS3 games. I don't use iTunes but have quite a large CD/DVD/Blu-Ray collection reaching also into the 1000s of dollars. Is that unreasonable?

iTunes has actually helped a lot in the Music industry, as it saves you from buying an album for only two songs that you might like.

---

That said I think their are some forms of piracy that are acceptable. Specifically regarding content that isn't available in your location and is provided for free elsewhere.

This.

I think piracy is an incredibly tough area to get right, a bit like prostitution, drugs and the like it needs to be treated without aggressive action or you will drive it underground and create a bigger problem.

There have been some interesting scenarios in here, particularly with regards to the expensive professional software. I can think of a few solutions to it, you could offer a cheaper solution for time-restricted license holders, say 10/15 hrs a week, which would cover weekend/part-time use. Sell it at a third of the normal RRP and you might start to discover you're making a whole new market. Whether it's actually feasible or not is another matter. Those who risk, win. As the saying goes.

Can't say a lot about the music industry, I don't know much about the innards of it or costs of production. I'll be blunt and say I've not paid much beyond a tenner for any album. It's just not expensive in my eyes, from professional experience, cost just isn't the factor in non-professional software piracy (any sector) though, it's ease of access. I've spent hundreds on music after finding bands on Youtube, it's a great shop window, like Steam is/can be on PC.

Unfortunately the biggest "image" issue is people see the aggression of some of the biggest companies and just use that to smear the whole of x industry with. No, it's the little guys who get hurt the most, they just have little power to do anything about it. I've worked with some of the biggest in my industry, and I'm not a fan of their attitude, but I'll counter that and say the good guys are really good and don't get enough credit.

From our own view point, we don't tend to bother too much about it, we'll do what we can, but there's little point wasting huge resources on it, because there's no value in doing so for the little guy in the world of piracy. Even if it stings like hell when those who paid are the minority.

There will be changes ahead, I don't see physical production lasting much longer for games and music (the former probably taking the lead), don't see it happening with movies and the like for a bit longer though. It's inevitable, the cost differences are hyooge and although there's a crowd who like the physical copy, it is diminishing as benefits of digital copy are being introduced.

TL;DR

Don't see this bill working, but changes are needed, some of which can come from the production side. Not everyone is evil. Spongebob rocks.
 
Are you serious?

Like, serious?

Would you, say, go to a restaurant and steal some food to see if you liked? Sure, it was just an appetizer, but would you do that?

Or would you steal produce from a grocery store to "sample" its quality?

Honestly, this is the worst argument I've heard for justification in a long time. Just read some reviews.

I agree that it's not a particularly strong argument, but it's not the worst. It's pretty much just the inverse of demanding a refund for a product you bought that didn't work or meet your expectations of it.

There are some arguments for piracy that are a LOT worse. Like "why pay when you can get it for free?", which is basically just saying "🤬 the artists, I only care about me"

I'm not personally for or against piracy... it's just too complex an issue. While some piracy can undoubtedly hurt industries, there's some degrees of piracy that doesn't really eat at a product's true potential market. And then there are even some cases where it can also help expand it. What the net result of piracy is though, I'm not sure. And frankly, I don't think anyone does.
 
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There have been some interesting scenarios in here, particularly with regards to the expensive professional software. I can think of a few solutions to it, you could offer a cheaper solution for time-restricted license holders, say 10/15 hrs a week, which would cover weekend/part-time use. Sell it at a third of the normal RRP and you might start to discover you're making a whole new market. Whether it's actually feasible or not is another matter. Those who risk, win. As the saying goes.
.

I actually want to add that a lot of developers of professional software do sell copies for a significant discount to companies who buy enough copies. I know from experience that when you get organised a VLK (Volume Licence Key) for 15,000 copies of Adobe Design Suite you get a pretty nice discount (Though still a nice 6 figure bill). This is how Autodesk, Adobe, Microsoft, et al, make a significant amount of their money on software, not selling single copies in retail stores. Another example is Microsoft Windows. How many people buy Retail Windows for $200 or whatever it is? Microsoft make a lot more money selling 10 million licences to OEM's like HP at $30 a PC, it's a business model that has been proven to work.
 
Indeed, my above was aimed at the single-license user rather than the multiple license companies, but your point has been made sensibly (which is surprising from an Aussie ;)). May be rather insignificant turnover from such an idea compared to selling to multi-license business, but it could still be turnover they don't have.
 
I think it would be worthwhile to quote something that Eric Flint of Baen Books said a while back. He was talking about ebooks, but what he had to say is relevant to music and videos as well.

Eric Flint
1. Online piracy -- while it is definitely illegal and immoral -- is, as a practical problem, nothing more than (at most) a nuisance. We're talking brats stealing chewing gum, here, not the Barbary Pirates.

2. Losses any author suffers from piracy are almost certainly offset by the additional publicity which, in practice, any kind of free copies of a book usually engender. Whatever the moral difference, which certainly exists, the practical effect of online piracy is no different from that of any existing method by which readers may obtain books for free or at reduced cost: public libraries, friends borrowing and loaning each other books, used book stores, promotional copies, etc.

3. Any cure which relies on tighter regulation of the market -- especially the kind of extreme measures being advocated by some people -- is far worse than the disease. As a widespread phenomenon rather than a nuisance, piracy occurs when artificial restrictions in the market jack up prices beyond what people think are reasonable. The "regulation-enforcement-more regulation" strategy is a bottomless pit which continually recreates (on a larger scale) the problem it supposedly solves. And that commercial effect is often compounded by the more general damage done to social and political freedom.

I think the third point above is especially relevant here, the cure is worse than the disease.

The complete text can be found here.

On a related topic, a few people in this thread have treid to claim that stealing IP is the same as stealing apples from the local grocer -- it is not. If you steal an apple then the grocer no longer has that apple, which he paid for, to sell. He has a real, demonstrable loss. Not so in the case of stealing an .mp3. Similarly the situation mentioned earlier with regard to stealing a car as a sort of test drive, still not close to the same thing. While you're "borrowing" the car nobody else can buy or otherwise evaluate the car, not to mention the wear and tear you're putting on it.

But if you steal an .mp3 you have not diminished any vendor's stocks in any way. You have not caused him any sort of direct financial loss. At best you have deprived him of the income he would have received had you purchased the item. You have denied him a potential gain, you have not created a loss.

Don't that the above as a rationale or apology for piracy, it's not. I'm just pointing out that saying it's just the came as stealing apples is incorrect.
 
What's the status on SOPA at the moment? How close is it to being passed?

If it is passed, I would highly believe many people would retaliate. This is the First Amendment Right being taken away, I don't think people will just sit and let it disappear.
 
My mind is just blown away by that. How on Earth that judge thinks his reach is so extensive is beyond me, and the manner of creating evidence is just hilariously questionable.
 
My mind is just blown away by that. How on Earth that judge thinks his reach is so extensive is beyond me, and the manner of creating evidence is just hilariously questionable.

Wow... I can't believe this. I actually guessed it coming, since I watched Michael Moore's "Capitalism: a Love Story" a week ago, and I was going to post:
"Let's hope it doesn't end up like the Goldmann Sachs deal for $70 million"

Next thing you know, the SOPA hasn't been officially passed, but its goals have.
 
Wait, so they ordered from 3 of the sites, and that was enough to shut them all down?:odd::confused:

Next thing you know, the SOPA hasn't been officially passed, but its goals have.

Sounds like this started before SOPA even existed(The ruling was on 11/14, cases don't move that fast).

Crappy judgements are constantly made, it's not exclusive to any state or country. It really wouldn't be a shocker to see this get overturned by the State supreme court.
 
My mind is just blown away by that. How on Earth that judge thinks his reach is so extensive is beyond me, and the manner of creating evidence is just hilariously questionable.

Because many judges are old and don't understand technology well, so why do real work when just bang your stupid hammer and say guilty you are counterfeiting until you can prove otherwise.
 
Because many judges are old and don't understand technology well, so why do real work when just bang your stupid hammer and say guilty you are counterfeiting until you can prove otherwise.

The thing is, in the US, there is generally more process required for this sorts of things. I would be surprised if Google and MS complied with the order, given the ludicrous nature of it.
 
According to what I read, the Bill is currently in the process of being passed. Anyone know for sure?
 
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