Real Guns

Solid Lifters · Apr 14, 2012

a6m5
Maybe you should've bought a .45ACP..... j/k I hope you guys stay safe. 👍

Little gun related story today: My buddy who also work for the same company, he had borrowed Beretta 92 with a silver(stainless?) slide from a semi-retied guy he works with. He wanted to sell the gun for $400, and this was supposed to be a test drive over this weekend. I was supposed to go shoot it with him tomorrow......... I just gotta call from him, and the owner of the gun, he was fired today(no pun intended).

I wonder if he'll come back for the Beretta? Probably.

I'd be MITGHTY careful bringing back that gun to him! :scared:

a6m5 · Apr 14, 2012

Solid Lifters
I'd be MITGHTY careful bringing back that gun to him!

The thing is, my buddy doesn't have his address, and turns out the phone number was no good. He pretty much have to wait for the guy to come find him at the work he was just fired from. :sly:

Nah, the guy who was fired, he's alright. As I said, semi-retired, so it's not like he was hard up for money, or job. He was getting rid of his old handguns(was also trying to sell really old S&W .357), as he doesn't care for them. Big bolt-action rifle guy.

a6m5 · Apr 15, 2012

*Bump* I need help.

So I'm in negotiation trading away my Glock 17.

The guy has Kimber Custom Target II(actual pic):

I have offered him this(Glock G17) + additional cash amount: $350(if lot of wear), $400(average wear), $450(like-new).

He has just one clip(w/bump pad, which I don't care for), my Glock has three. His counteroffer was +$425 for the gun, or +$465 for the gun and the 150 rounds of .45ACP. Very reasonable counteroffer, pending the condition of the Kimber, which was described with "great shooting gun with usual wear". He is planning on emailing me more detailed pics to me tomorrow.

What do you guys think? My gun is in perfect condition, but I'm starting to see way more merit in compact handguns, much like Glock 26 or G19 disinfected just bought. If I do get it, Kimber will be a toy, but I will be buying another 9mm Glock ASAP as my go-to self defense weapon.

I've never bought a used gun, or had Craigslist type exchanges, so I can use any advice you guys can give me. Not gonna lie, little bit nervous about this. :lol:

Zenith · Apr 15, 2012

In my opinion, if you want a 1911 do not buy a Kimber, especially not a used one.

Kimber, as of late, has been infamous for QC problems. There have been mismatched parts and corners being cut in production. If that guy is selling his, I'm betting that there are some of those oh-so-common incorrect parts. Their customer service is also crap.

Even if it was in working condition, there are far better options in the same price range. I'd look for a Springfield or a Colt.

I'm writing from talking to a friend about the Kimber he had and some online research.

Edit: Here

a6m5 · Apr 15, 2012

That was nothing short of eye-opening. Thank you for posting. 👍

Did your friend have issue with his, as far as the functionality of the gun? All my buddies are like "Kimber, Kimber!", I thought they were rock solid quality.

As far as the finishes go, I'm not too concerned, as I'm going to really take care of it. It will be promptly cleaned every time I shoot it, also coated with protectant.

My main concern would be consistency & reliability in firing this gun. Either way, my counter to his counter offer will be bit lower now. The level of quality is not where I thought it would be with this gun, or the premium price that comes with Kimber brand.

Thanks again for your help. 👍

Zenith · Apr 15, 2012

My friend has issues with stovepipe jams until he sent the gun to a gunsmith. I don't know what the total cost was but it involved replacing parts that were out of spec. Probably not too bad.

Kimber earned their reputation by producing some seriously good firearms. The quality has dropped off recently.

I've heard from many experienced shooters who end up owning 4-5 Kimber 1911's that work flawlessly and have great quality. I've also heard of shooters who buy a Kimber that just will not work and have had to get some invasive and expensive gunsmithing to fix it.

I can't say much for accuracy. I assume it's very good just like every 1911.

If it's a range toy, I think you'll be okay. Especially since the Custom II model is probably your best bet in terms of quality.

Pleasure to help 👍

a6m5 · Apr 15, 2012

OK, I think we came to an agreement:

My Glock 17(w/3 mags) + $435
for
Kimber + 150 rounds of ammo.

It was bit higher than I wanted to go, and little bit lower than what he was asking. Basically, my G17's flawless with perfect operational record, but if I could have traded in, or sell it at a higher price, I was gonna do it. I should have bought a smaller Glock. Most likely, my replacement will be a G19, or G26. Disinfected: post some pics of your G19 for me, in your hands, etc., so I can see how big(or small) it is.

I've also wanted G26 for awhile now, so I might get that. I have not ruled out the LC9, as that seems to be the best size in subcompact.

I'm probably gonna get the citizenship now, as I've been getting the itch to conceal carry. I know people who carry without permit, but don't tell anybody.

Zenith013
My friend has issues with stovepipe jams until he sent the gun to a gunsmith. I don't know what the total cost was but it involved replacing parts that were out of spec. Probably not too bad.

That must've been frustrating, especially on a (more)premium handgun like Kimber. I know I'm taking a risk with my transaction, so I hope I have better luck. :nervous:

Zenith · Apr 16, 2012

Here's my AR build...

I started with all of the lower receiver parts (minus the Geissele SSA-E which is on back order)

Noveske Forged Lower (Serial Number shopped out)

Vltor A5 Buffer System w/ Vltor EMOD Stock

Internet stock photo of the spring and buffer because I forgot...

Ergo Grip

White Oak Armament Lower Parts Kit with Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard

A couple hours later aaand...

Solid Lifters · Apr 16, 2012

Spring buffer? Don't you hate that annoying 'boing' shake that comes with it? Hydrolic buffer only for me, if I wanted to build one.

I should, but I'm not too fond of .223 cartridge.

a6m5 · Apr 16, 2012

Spring or hydraulic what? :crazy:

I gotta long way to go. Nice post & thanks for the pics, Z-man. :lol:

👍

To be honest, I'm not fond of .223 either, but there is a decent chance that I might go after AR15/M4 before I buy a bolt-action. Total change of plans, as I was only looking at .308 or .30-06 before, but all the gun violence in the headlines are making me nervous. With Romney or Obama in the office, I'm starting to think that there might be a decent chance of more red tapes in the near future for firearms, and you know that they don't like assault rifles. I'm certain bolt-action & shotguns, they are not too concerned with. Yet.

I know that they make AR's with .308, but if I'm gonna buy a .308 assault rifle, I'd rather do FAL, Saiga type, but preferably a bolt-action for the price & accuracy.

P.S. Is that a compartment in the stock? For batteries or something?

Zenith · Apr 16, 2012

Solid Lifters
Spring buffer? Don't you hate that annoying 'boing' shake that comes with it? Hydrolic buffer only for me, if I wanted to build one.

I should, but I'm not too fond of .223 cartridge.

Well, the current buffer setup I have is actually a rifle length. It allows me to get all the reliability and smooth action of the full rifle with the collapsing stock of the carbine. I don't believe Enidine makes a hydraulic buffer for the rifle length system. I plan to try out the JP Rifles Silent Capture Spring to see if I can get rid of the sprong sound. It just seems like a better product.

On that note, I'm going to be tuning the gas system on the rifle eventually so I'll need to play with springs and buffer rates, a hydraulic buffer doesn't offer the tuning options.

a6m5
Spring or hydraulic what? I gotta long way to go. Nice post & thanks for the pics, Z-man. 👍

Snip

P.S. Is that a compartment in the stock? For batteries or something?

Z-man

He speaks of the reciprocating system that is housed in the buffer tube (rear tube) of the system. There's a spring for cycling the action and a buffer weight to slow it down and add momentum. The system js known to make a sound like running a whisk over a cheese grater when firing. There's a company that makes a hydraulic shock w/ spring as an alternative that doesn't do this.

For my purposes, .223/5.56 will work just fine. I will make another upper in a bigger caliber eventually though.

I definitely agree with that. With the exception of calibers purpose built for the AR (6.8SPC, 300BLK, .50Beowulf, etc) I think that the best answer for getting a semi auto rifle in a different caliber is to buy a gun that was purpose built for it. A Scar 17 would be a good (albeit very expensive) option to look into. I've heard nothing but good about them.

It must be said, there are people who are far better shooters and gunsmiths who disagree with the AR caliber sentiment.

And yes, it's a storage compartment. I think it stores a couple of AA's or some packets of Koolaid. There are three on the buttstock, none of which I will need. I wanted the extra length and weight and I liked the VLTOR EMOD over the Magpul ACS so I guess they're just an added extra. I plan to keep a copy of my papers in them.

Michael88 · Apr 17, 2012

If I ever wanted a .223 caliber rifle (I'm a .308 guy myself) I'd definitely go with the Steyr AUG, had one in my basic military training and I must say its a damn fine rifle. Its so short its shorter than my arm with a full length barrel (a must have with the .223, you want all the V0 you can get with this tiny caliber), handles really well and the system is totally over-engineered (No bolt-cracks after a few K rounds like with the AR), its dead reliable, its accurate and the best thing - it has a gas piston system, not the direct impingment AR system because everybody knows, don't **** where you eat! Or in this case, fart...but whatever...

Yes, backup-sights with bull pup rifles is problematic because its so short - it can be done but its not as accurate or efficient with full length rifles, its like having the sight length of a pistol.
Another downside is its not as modular as the AR system, it can only be modified to a certain extend. But that wouldn't be a problem for me, I believe in the KISS-system (Keep it simple stupid), give me a good reliable gun with a good scope and keep all your tacticool equipment (that would just lead to helmet fire during combat anyway)

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

a6m5
OK, I think we came to an agreement:

My Glock 17(w/3 mags) + $435
for
Kimber + 150 rounds of ammo.

It was bit higher than I wanted to go, and little bit lower than what he was asking. Basically, my G17's flawless with perfect operational record, but if I could have traded in, or sell it at a higher price, I was gonna do it. I should have bought a smaller Glock. Most likely, my replacement will be a G19, or G26. Disinfected: post some pics of your G19 for me, in your hands, etc., so I can see how big(or small) it is. I've also wanted G26 for awhile now, so I might get that. I have not ruled out the LC9, as that seems to be the best size in subcompact.

I'm probably gonna get the citizenship now, as I've been getting the itch to conceal carry. I know people who carry without permit, but don't tell anybody.

That must've been frustrating, especially on a (more)premium handgun like Kimber. I know I'm taking a risk with my transaction, so I hope I have better luck.

I'll get some pictures up in a minute.

Zenith · Apr 17, 2012

Eh. IMO, 98% of people who buy a gas piston rifle will never reap the benefits.

For an extreme use combat weapon where water, mud, dirt, and sand are a daily thing? Sure. For a very short barrel? You bet. For a civilian? No.

I'll never have to dive face first into mud and the gun will be cleaned and lubed far more often than required. It's simply not worth the disadvantages in accuracy, weight, recoil, and cost for my uses.

Also bullpups have their own advantages and disadvantages. I'm interested in getting more experience with them, right now I've only fired a Walther G22.

Though if I had the chance to buy any bullpup, it would definitely be the AUG.

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

Some more images.

Brett · Apr 17, 2012

Have you taken it to the range yet?

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

Not yet, still trying to find a good day to go.

Zenith · Apr 17, 2012

You do know the break-in procedure with a Glock, don't you?

300 rounds
Run over with car on gravel road
300 rounds
Throw off cliff
300 rounds
Build a shed using your Glock as a hammer.

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

Don't forget take it into the tornado.

a6m5 · Apr 17, 2012

Some really good posts in there, but I just wanted to let you guys know, I made the exchange today. Some interesting posts though, as I had never heard of SCAR 17(how expensive is expensive? lol), and Michael's post was as informative as usual, exept that part about tacticool. You do realize by now that I am a tactitool.

And Z-Man(this name's gonna stick!), we might be civilians, but we like that "extreme use" stuff in this thread, as we are also survival junkie, if only part time. Actually, sounds like Michael's had military training, me, probably closer to tactitool, or mall ninja. :crazy:

Anyway, thanks for the G19 pics. 👍 That size looks just about perfect. It's still very close between G19 & G26 for me. G26, I love it for the concealed carry. I could wear one even during summer time. But if I want a fullsize handgun that can double as a concealed carry gun, I don't see any other choice than the G19, especially for the price. Thanks again, d-man.

OK, here's my new used Kimber Custom Target II:

And the stupid molle Glock holster I bought? That stupid surplus store that sold it to me, I'm convinced that they sold me a 1911 holster:

Fits this Kimber way better than my G17. :crazy:

Overall, the wear on the gun was what I expected, and I just took the slide off, cleaned the exposed parts with Rem Oil a bit. Everything looks good, and all mechanism feels very smooth, crisp, tight & right. If I don't hear a "click" when I try to fire it, then I know I did OK. :lol:

This was not a great deal, but was a trade I really wanted to make. Unload the fullsize 9mm for something I want. Then I can buy a smaller 9mm for self/home defense down the line. I played with the Kimber for a bit, and I love this thing. I can see why so many Americans love 1911's. 👍

P.S. I am still fond of Glock & my G17. I got rid of it for the large size, but it treated me so good. $500 handgun(don't say it, d-man!) that was very accurate, and didn't jam one 🤬 time. One dead bullet(probably bad primer), and that was the only time it didn't fire. One time! My Remington 597? Not so much. 👎

Brett · Apr 17, 2012

The SCAR 17 is the semi-auto, civilian version of the SCAR-H. Price-wise? $2,000+

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

I could get one tax free if I had the money!

a6m5 · Apr 17, 2012

VashTheStampede
The SCAR 17 is the semi-auto, civilian version of the SCAR-H. Price-wise? $2,000+

Is that all? :dopey:

I kind of figured that, as I usually see even the nicer AR's in $1200~$2000 range.

God, I can't wait to shoot the 1911. I might actually visit the range for this one. I've never been to a indoor range. I've always shot in the woods with my buddies, like true hillbillies!

disinfected
I could get one tax free if I had the money!

Tax, like sales tax?

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

Yeah, no tax whatsoever. There is a SCAR 17 at the base exchange right now.

a6m5 · Apr 17, 2012

disinfected
Yeah, no tax whatsoever. There is a SCAR 17 at the base exchange right now.

Is that thing actually .308? Before Z-Man brought this up, I thought SCARs were .223?

We have no sales tax in Oregon. :dopey:

Would you get a discount on something like that, too?

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

The prices are really good, aside from their Glock prices. I never looked at it aside from in it's glory in the case, so not sure.

Brett · Apr 17, 2012

The SCAR 16 and SCAR-L are 5.56 rifles, while the SCAR 17 and SCAR-H are 7.62 rifles.

disinfected · Apr 17, 2012

What part of Oklahoma are you in, anyways? What is a good range to go to?

Brett · Apr 17, 2012

I am in Moore. I have been to H&H and Sergeant Everett's. Sergeant Everett's is south of Indian Hills Road on the east side of I-35.

Sergeant Everett's Gun Range

At Everett's, for range use, it is $10 for the entire day. I just looked at the fees on the website and it says no time limit. When I went, I could have left, bought more ammunition, came back, and continued shooting.

a6m5 · Apr 17, 2012

Ah, thanks Brett. 👍

Speaking of range, I heard about one that's probably 35 minutes from me that were like $18 + you gotta buy their ammo?

Sounds pretty reasonable right? Or should I look around harder?

Edit: Seven bucks? Are Whoppers still .99 cents in OKC? :crazy:

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