Real Guns

[Zenith]

i collect historic firearms from ww2 and own quite a few, but my pride and joy is my h&k G3 full auto class 3.

Mag dump video or it didn't happen

 

[Steele_obsidion]

Someday i will own one of these.

I dont knwo what it is about it i just love it so much!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Someday i will own one of these.

Why? The thing is a POS. Can't cycle for crap. The video was edited for the shots that went off.

Trust me, you don't want it. 👍

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah Kel Tec have never been that great, I think I'll just save my money for a while and then go buy a Super 90. Then I'll have a real shot gun.

 

[Steele_obsidion]

I didnt know they sucked that much, always loved the style, but now i know!

I never did post a pic of my real shotgun though...

Don't know why I never took more pictures of the thing, but meh. its a 3 shot Benelli, semi automatic 12 ga. Its currently at my sisters house. Her husband is a gun nut and keeps it clean and polished for me. i love that thing its so smooth and clean firing. The recoil is not bad at all either.... so nice.

 

[Zenith]

Let's not stick our shoes too far up the KSG's buttstock. It's a novel idea that may well be the future of defense shotguns.

The current model is plagued by some quality control and design issues. Make no mistake, buying one is a bad idea if you're looking for a good gun.

The features it has, however, make current shotgun designs look aged and quaint. The double tube magazine helps mitigate a significant problem with shotguns; loading new kinds of shells and low ammo capacity. The short design (bullpup, iirc) makes it a much more viable close quarters weapon.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Let's not stick our shoes too far up the KSG's buttstock. It's a novel idea that may well be the future of defense shotguns.

The current model is plagued by some quality control and design issues. Make no mistake, buying one is a bad idea if you're looking for a good gun.

The features it has, however, make current shotgun designs look aged and quaint. The double tube magazine helps mitigate a significant problem with shotguns; loading new kinds of shells and low ammo capacity. The short design (bullpup, iirc) makes it a much more viable close quarters weapon.

So, you have hope for the design? I hate hope! "Bleeeeeehhhhhhhhhh!"



Seriously, I wish they can make this design work. Looks cool. Not keeping any hope alive, mind you.

 

[Zenith]

Haha, I do. The errors so far have been due to the plastics being used in the wrong places. It's stuff like plastic holding on the rails snapping off with the use of a fore grip. I think that if they just did some more thorough testing prior to releasing the product then the response would be very different.

Edit: let me be clear. I believe in the ideas. Some design features such as the actions required to use the double tubes and switch between them make little sense to me.

 

[Omnis]

They need to make a P90, but with shot shells.

 

[a6m5]

I don't use P90s unless they have silencers.

I like the design of that Kel-Tech, too. It's come up in this thread a couple of times, but I had no idea that there indeed was a quality/reliability issue. It was priced little too reasonably, so I was wondering......

P.S. I finally had found a decent shooting range. In Vancouver, Washington.

It's around $17 and you bring in your own ammo. Buy ammo there only if you rent their guns. It is very frustrating that we don't have a range like that here, as all I can find are either membership only, or you buy their ammo on top of the range fee. I will gladly go spend my money in Washington this weekend. 👎 I was planning to go yesterday, but I woke up with a headache. Last thing I wanted to do yesterday morning was shoot guns.

 

[Brett]

I like the design of that Kel-Tech, too. It's come up in this thread a couple of times, but I had no idea that there indeed was a quality/reliability issue. It was priced little too reasonably, so I was wondering......

Here is the post where the KSG was first discussed some before in the thread, over 600 posts ago.

 

[Michael88]

While I think that Kel-Tec offers a lot of refreshing innovation in a very stale market I wouldn't want any of their stuff because its not time proven and some of the mechanisms are very complex - a lot can go wrong in the worst possible time with these actions (Shotgun cycling, top-ejecting bullpup) etc.

Maybe I'm oldschool but I'd rather want time and battle proven stuff that even functions flawlessly when it gets dumped in a pile of elephant poo.

Also, I'm not a fan of all the plastics, I know its the material of the 21st century but I prefer good old ordnance-grade steel in my hands. Not much can go wrong with good ole steel.
A cracked frame? Not likely to happen with a steel frame unless you run it over with a freight train.

Which reminds me of something really cool, the aftermarket Glock aluminum frame. If I had a Glock I'd get one immediately-.

Now is this sexy what?

 

[Icarus25]

No, that's kind of hideous. The only thing that should be silver in a two-tone is the slide. The black backstrap and buttons just make it look thrown together.

 

[Zenith]

It could probably be parkerized or whatever finish is flavor of the month.

 

[Solid Lifters]

It could probably be parkerized or whatever finish is flavor of the month.

Birdsong Green would look awesome.

 

[a6m5]

Now is this sexy what?

My answer would be a "yes", and Icarus, don't even chip in, you don't like Glocks to start with. And yeah, if they can make it all black, it would be a money in the bank! 👍

I also agree on the Kel Tec. The ability to switch between a slug to buckshot, or birdshot, very awesome concept, but only with dependable delivery. Which brings me back to the proven firearm thing, and that is why I absolutely loved my Glock. There was no doubt in my mind that when I wanted to fire that G17, it was going to fire a bullet at whatever I pointed it at. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not the biggest fan of the looks of the Glock pistols. But I do think they look alright, and plastic or not, I like their priorities. 👍

 

[Omnis]

I'd rather have the plastic.

 

[Michael88]

I think they make a black one. By the way, aluminum can't be parkerized as parkerizing is similar to rust and aluminum is incredibly resistant to oxidation, works only with non SS steel. Aluminum can be anodized or powder coated.
An easier way would just to dura-coat it with the color you like.

Personally, I'd freaking love to have an all dark teal green Glock with an aluminum frame. 👍

 

[a6m5]

I think all I want is that picatinny style rail, like found on the SF-version of the G21 I posted while back. *go look for the pic*

There it is:

 

[Icarus25]

Now now a6, I never said I hated Glocks. They're fantastic pistols and deserve their status, I just prefer a pistol with an external hammer, both in looks and function. If it was all black or even some sort of military scheme like olive drab/tan it would be fine. It just looks off with a silver frame and black slide. Plus that rail style makes it look more like an M&P than a Glock, minus the angularity.

 

[ExigeEvan]

By the way, aluminum can't be parkerized as parkerizing is similar to rust and aluminum is incredibly resistant to oxidation, works only with non SS steel. Aluminum can be anodized or powder coated.
An easier way would just to dura-coat it with the color you like.

I'm not doubting the methods, but aluminium is coated in an oxide layer, that's what makes it so corrosion resistance.

 

[Crash]

P.S. I finally had found a decent shooting range. In Vancouver, Washington.

It's around $17 and you bring in your own ammo. Buy ammo there only if you rent their guns. It is very frustrating that we don't have a range like that here, as all I can find are either membership only, or you buy their ammo on top of the range fee. I will gladly go spend my money in Washington this weekend. 👎 I was planning to go yesterday, but I woke up with a headache. Last thing I wanted to do yesterday morning was shoot guns.

So I assume you can bring your gun over the state lines as long as it's unloaded and locked in the trunk of your car?

It's stupid that my CPL won't work in Oregon. I sometimes visit Portland on a day trip, and would like to be able to carry.

 

[Zenith]

I think they make a black one. By the way, aluminum can't be parkerized as parkerizing is similar to rust and aluminum is incredibly resistant to oxidation, works only with non SS steel. Aluminum can be anodized or powder coated.
An easier way would just to dura-coat it with the color you like.

Personally, I'd freaking love to have an all dark teal green Glock with an aluminum frame. 👍

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking anodized.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

While I think that Kel-Tec offers a lot of refreshing innovation in a very stale market I wouldn't want any of their stuff because its not time proven and some of the mechanisms are very complex - a lot can go wrong in the worst possible time with these actions (Shotgun cycling, top-ejecting bullpup) etc.

Maybe I'm oldschool but I'd rather want time and battle proven stuff that even functions flawlessly when it gets dumped in a pile of elephant poo.

Also, I'm not a fan of all the plastics, I know its the material of the 21st century but I prefer good old ordnance-grade steel in my hands. Not much can go wrong with good ole steel.
A cracked frame? Not likely to happen with a steel frame unless you run it over with a freight train.

Which reminds me of something really cool, the aftermarket Glock aluminum frame. If I had a Glock I'd get one immediately-.

Now is this sexy what?

What tactical purpose does it serve? I mean beside less recoil than that of the plastic. Other than that what is the use?

I'd rather have the plastic.

Agreed.

 

[Zenith]

What tactical purpose does it serve? I mean beside less recoil than that of the plastic. Other than that what is the use?.

Doesn't have one, but it probably makes tons of money off of people who simply cannot fathom the idea of a gun made of "plastic."

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Doesn't have one, but it probably makes tons of money off of people who simply cannot fathom the idea of a gun made of "plastic."

Figured it didn't have one, I mean I understand style (if that's what you'd call it) but if I'm going to spend money it wouldn't be on that. Then again that's just me, I like having something that has some kind of advantage to it. A Glock already has much advantage over a number of handguns, why ruin it?

 

[Michael88]

What tactical purpose does it serve? I mean beside less recoil than that of the plastic. Other than that what is the use?

Off the top of my head:

* Less recoil and noticeably less muzzle flip
* Adjustable grip angle (via inserts) - (Thats the biggest advantage over the standard frame, many people have problems with the grip angle of the Glock. )
* Aesthetics -not everyone is happy with the feel of plastics and prefer metal
* Aluminum is more heat resistant
* Aluminum is more durable
* Picatinny rail / frame end isn't prone to twist
* Picatinny rail doesn't warp when the frame gets hot (Thats especially good when using a PDW-style stock for the Glock)

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Off the top of my head:

* Less recoil and noticeably less muzzle flip
* Adjustable grip angle (via inserts) - (Thats the biggest advantage over the standard frame, many people have problems with the grip angle of the Glock. )
* Aesthetics -not everyone is happy with the feel of plastics and prefer metal
* Aluminum is more heat resistant
* Aluminum is more durable
* Picatinny rail / frame end isn't prone to twist
* Picatinny rail doesn't warp when the frame gets hot (Thats especially good when using a PDW-style stock for the Glock)

Ah forgot, about the aluminum advantages, I take back what I said a bit. Aesthetics aren't a tacticle advantage though. They are a preference. The rest was good though, well point two I don't have an issue with. However, I can't argue with the durability, also I wouldn't say it is heat resistant compared to a steel frame, plastic I suppose, but then again don't glock use plastics that can counter that?

 

[Michael88]

well point two I don't have an issue with.

Me neither, it usually only takes me ~ half an hour to adjust to a different grip angle, but many shooters who are used to the 1911 grip angle and trained with 1911-framed guns for years or even decades complain a lot about the Glock frame.
Its actually one of the main things that scares people off from buying a Glock so there is a big market for adjustable aftermarket frames.

Must be an American thing though, nobody here complains about that.

also I wouldn't say it is heat resistant compared to a steel frame, plastic I suppose, but then again don't glock use plastics that can counter that?

Glock uses good plastics, but its still...plastic, and plastics warp when getting hot. Also, even cold plastic is flexible, and if you put your Glock in an PDW stock that attaches to the picatinny rail the setup will be extremely inaccurate. So inaccurate you get plate-sized groups at 50.
Its a whole different story with the aluminum frame.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Glock uses good plastics, but its still...plastic, and plastics warp when getting hot. Also, even cold plastic is flexible, and if you put your Glock in an PDW stock that attaches to the picatinny rail the setup will be extremely inaccurate. So inaccurate you get plate-sized groups at 50.
Its a whole different story with the aluminum frame.

No I understand and with that some of the other properties come into play, aluminum isn't known for being a heat resistant metal is what I was trying to get at. It's light durable and flexes very well. However, being heat resistant or withstanding high temps is not a strong point of it. Hence why I said compared to a steel frame which would be the best switch. Either way good find and you make great points, just not for me.

Also I find it necessary for people to fire different weapons in a simultaneous time frame. I mean worse case scenario wise, if you need to pick up a gun at random and fire it well, grip angle shouldn't be a factor. I'm glad you don't suffer that issue and I think any avid shooter shouldn't have such an issue. Yet that is my thoughts on grip angle.