GTP NASCAR SPRINT CUP S3 Champs: RFLX_Niop, Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota

Knelly · Jul 9, 2012

Your PMs are full Champ 👍

MustangRyan · Jul 9, 2012

Knelly
Great work, and thanks Drop 👍

Got my nominations updated for you.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7319638#post7319638

Niop · Jul 9, 2012

Knelly
Your PMs are full Champ 👍

Cleared them out.

Chqr · Jul 9, 2012

I thought Litchi's comeback at Suzuka was pretty outstanding.

He was second from last at one stage after spinning out a few times.

Furinkazen · Jul 10, 2012

Chqr
I thought Litchi's comeback at Suzuka was pretty outstanding.

He was second from last at one stage after spinning out a few times.

Agreed. A standout drive.

Also credit to the Hendrick boys having had to assemble a totally new team mid season ~cough Carb and Chqr and Matty...~

Carbonox · Jul 10, 2012

OK, I won't do the final round because then it'll be very late, but if all Matty, Chqr and Cowboys can make it, HMS should still have 3 drivers in the finale when I step aside.

MustangRyan · Jul 10, 2012

Carbonox
OK, I won't do the final round because then it'll be very late, but if all Matty, Chqr and Cowboys can make it, HMS should still have 3 drivers in the finale when I step aside.

Are you saying that you're skipping the last weekend, or just the last race of the two held on the final weekend?

You should at least run the first of the two rounds, if you're not already planning to do so. A 200-mile Daytona race doesn't take that long. It should be over in around 65 minutes or so.

Carbonox · Jul 10, 2012

MustangRyan
Are you saying that you're skipping the last weekend, or just the last race of the two held on the final weekend?

You should at least run the first of the two rounds, if you're not already planning to do so. A 200-mile Daytona race doesn't take that long. It should be over in around 65 minutes or so.

I only meant the final round. 80 laps of Daytona isn't really a problem, but the next race begins so late that there's no point in bothering.

MustangRyan · Jul 10, 2012

I should have race results posted tonight, but I'll start with a few items from the stats department.

RFLX_Niop logged his 3rd win of the season, tying him for the most in the league this season with Droptop2001gt. RFLX set the league record for most wins in a single season with his 4 race victories in Season 2 (and a record 3 race wins in the Chase). The only other drivers to ever win 3 races in a single season are RFLX (S1) and JoeOfTheFire (S1). RFLX has now won at least 3 races in all 3 seasons, the only driver to ever do so. The following drivers have recorded 2-win seasons: Droptop (S1), Homeslice47 (S1), JoeOfTheFire (S2), and M-Stall41 (S2).

RFLX became the first driver to win 10 career races, in just the 37th Sprint Cup race ever held. RFLX has only started 28 of those races, meaning he wins more than 1/3 of his starts (35.7% win/start ratio).

RFLX also became the first owner to win 10 career races. Since there were no team owners in season 1, this means he got to 10 team wins in just 22 races, an unreal 45.45% win/race ratio as an owner. RFLX has gone to victory lane with the following drivers in the past two seasons: (RFLX - 7, Droptop - 1, ACDC - 1, Knelly - 1).

RFLX's SGR team has won 4 races this season, tied for the most in the league with JGR. Four wins by a team in a single season is the 2nd most ever, beating out the 3 wins each recorded by Ford Racing and JGR last season. The most team wins ever in a single season is 6 wins, done last season by RFLX's HMS team.

Knelly · Jul 10, 2012

That's just ridiculously good. No other way to put it. With a 2 car team as well :ill:

Niop · Jul 10, 2012

Thanks for the stats, Drop. Nice work. 👍

MustangRyan · Jul 10, 2012

OFFICIAL Suzuka East Results:

1. #14 RFLX_Niop (Pole Position, 60 laps led) - 20 points, +3 bonus points
2. #83 MULE_9242 - 18 points
3. #43 JoeOfTheFire - 16 points
4. #18 GTP_Litchi - 0 points (Nationwide Driver)
5. #11 Furinkazen - 12 points
6. #42 Knelly - 11 points
7. #88 Carbonox - 0 points (Nationwide Driver)
8. #99 Tom_97_COD - 9 points
9. #83 RedPartyHat - 8 points
10. #48 Chqr - 0 points (Nationwide Driver)
11. #20 Droptop2001gt - 6 points
12. #24 MattyMc1996 - 5 points (+3 points for Crazy_Bassist83)

GTP Sprint Cup Chase for the Championship - After 2 of 5 Chase Races:

Owner's Championship:

Manufacturer's Championship:

Updated stats page:

Career Average Finish stats updated for:

Career Overall average finish
Career Chase average finish
Career Oval average finish
Career Daytona average finish
Career Road Course average finish
Career Suzuka East average finish

RedPartyhat · Jul 12, 2012

Suggestion for next season:
Allow cautions.
ONLY in the early stages of the race.
It can be totally unfair to a driver if he gets caught in a wreck that he had no influence on. Like if we race at Motegi and someone brakes way too late and another innocent driver on the outside gets put in the wall. Or 4th and 5th place get into a mishap at Daytona and a few unlucky guys get caught in the wreck and their race is over because of the 4th and 5th place drivers. Especially if we are doing the Daytona 500 and this happens on lap 2. My race is over on lap 2 of a 200 lap race?
Cautions don't motivate anyone to drive cleaner. We all know each other here, we can all trust each other here, we are all clean here. Cautions don't add or takeaway any incentive on driving clean. If we allow cautions, No one is going to think "Hey I should totally put that guy in the wall, there's just going to be a caution call anyway." We will always drive with the same amount of agression and patience.
Its just racing incidents happen and sometimes OTHERS have to suffer.
I'm not saying call caution for everything.
Don't call a caution if last place and second to last place get into something during the last 2 laps of the race and both are a lap behind. But I'm not going to really like it if I get spun out on lap 2 in a 200 lap race because of someone else. And I don't think anyone would.

The Bman · Jul 12, 2012

RPH is right about cautions. If somebody who has a fast car accidentally gets wrecked by a lapped car then a caution should be called out. It's unfair if you can easily win the race only to have a wreck that isn't your fault ruin your chances of winning.

Only call cautions IF NEEDED. Call a caution if a car spins when the front pack is about to approach it, not if a car spins half a track across from the leaders.

(On other notes, I will be racing on a limited schedule next year. Probably 5-6 races, including most of the Grand Slam races. I am pretty good at Indy and Motegi, just to let you know.)

MustangRyan · Jul 12, 2012

RedPartyhat
It can be totally unfair to a driver if he gets caught in a wreck that he had no influence on. Like if we race at Motegi and someone brakes way too late and another innocent driver on the outside gets put in the wall. Or 4th and 5th place get into a mishap at Daytona and a few unlucky guys get caught in the wreck and their race is over because of the 4th and 5th place drivers.
Its just racing incidents happen and sometimes OTHERS have to suffer.

Innocent drivers suffer in accidents all the time. Did anyone watch the Coke Zero 400 last Saturday night at Daytona? How many drivers were truly at fault for accidents, and how many total cars were destroyed?

Also, there is a big difference in our league. Of those 10+ drivers who had cars destroyed in accidents, none of them got back out on track after their wrecks. Their day was actually over. In our league, that's not the case. You can get back out on the track and keep going, and still run just as fast as before the accident.

RedPartyhat
Especially if we are doing the Daytona 500 and this happens on lap 2. My race is over on lap 2 of a 200 lap race?
But I'm not going to really like it if I get spun out on lap 2 in a 200 lap race because of someone else. And I don't think anyone would.

That literally happened to me in the Daytona 500 this season. I was caught up in an accident on lap 2 of the Daytona 500. I was leading again by lap 35 because I didn't give up. In a 200 lap race, you have more time than ever to get back with a group, and push your way back to the front. On lap 2 out of 200, no one's race is over unless they have disconnected. It's harder to make up time in a shorter race, or when an accident occurs with only a few laps left. This is why we run longer races than most other series.

RedPartyhat
ONLY in the early stages of the race.
I'm not saying call caution for everything.
Don't call a caution if last place and second to last place get into something during the last 2 laps of the race and both are a lap behind.

This is where controversy and conspiracy are going to start brewing. How are we (or I) supposed to make a snap decision during a race about what fairly constitutes a caution if we (I) can't always see it? Anyone in an accident is always going to swear it justifies a caution, because it's going to help them. Anyone not in the wreck is going to say it's not that bad, because it takes away from their lead. If you think that a caution called one way instead of the other isn't going to be a point of contention at some point, you're crazy. You can't have selective cautions. You either call cautions for everything, or cautions for nothing. Of the two, you all know my preference.

RedPartyhat
Cautions don't motivate anyone to drive cleaner. We all know each other here, we can all trust each other here, we are all clean here. Cautions don't add or takeaway any incentive on driving clean. If we allow cautions, No one is going to think "Hey I should totally put that guy in the wall, there's just going to be a caution call anyway." We will always drive with the same amount of agression and patience.

I absolutely believe that knowing that there will be no cautions in a race encourages cleaner and more conservative driving. No one wants to be the guy that loses a chunk of time because he did something overly aggressive that didn't need to happen.

Also, I like the fact that the field naturally separates itself over the course of a long race. I feel like accidents tend to happen with the same cars again and again for a reason (with some obvious exceptions: Mudd in S2 and Carb in S3). I normally don't want those cars to be reintroduced to the lead pack freely because of a caution. Yes, sometimes other cars will be collected. But, I think it's better for everyone if we let accidents keep the more accident-prone drivers away from the leaders as much as possible.

Tom. · Jul 12, 2012

I like using cautions in racing series, but even I think they don't suit this league.

RedPartyhat · Jul 13, 2012

MustangRyan
Innocent drivers suffer in accidents all the time. Did anyone watch the Coke Zero 400 last Saturday night at Daytona? How many drivers were truly at fault for accidents, and how many total cars were destroyed?

Cautions are still called in real life so I don't agree with this point.

Also, there is a big difference in our league. Of those 10+ drivers who had cars destroyed in accidents, none of them got back out on track after their wrecks. Their day was actually over. In our league, that's not the case. You can get back out on the track and keep going, and still run just as fast as before the accident.

Not at Indy, Daytona, or SSRX where once you lose the draft, its over. And I think those are the only 3 tracks that should have it be called.

That literally happened to me in the Daytona 500 this season. I was caught up in an accident on lap 2 of the Daytona 500. I was leading again by lap 35 because I didn't give up. In a 200 lap race, you have more time than ever to get back with a group, and push your way back to the front. On lap 2 out of 200, no one's race is over unless they have disconnected. It's harder to make up time in a shorter race, or when an accident occurs with only a few laps left. This is why we run longer races than most other series.

That also literally happened to Carbonox at the Chase Daytona race few weeks ago and he managed to get a whopping last. I recall that wreck as someone went under me and I got dangerously loose but managed to save. And Carbonox who was Mr. Innocent got collected and ended up spinning out. This was still fairly early in the race. Would it have been the end of the world if we all decided to slow up for him? I don't think so.

This is where controversy and conspiracy are going to start brewing. How are we (or I) supposed to make a snap decision during a race about what fairly constitutes a caution if we (I) can't always see it? Anyone in an accident is always going to swear it justifies a caution, because it's going to help them. Anyone not in the wreck is going to say it's not that bad, because it takes away from their lead. If you think that a caution called one way instead of the other isn't going to be a point of contention at some point, you're crazy. You can't have selective cautions. You either call cautions for everything, or cautions for nothing. Of the two, you all know my preference.

Majority here have mics, its not hard to communicate as to what just happened. Those who have wrecked should be able to plead their case for the caution, those who haven't wrecked should be able to make their case whether or not it is a fair or unfair caution. And the official word should be made by you.
Like I said, cautions will be turned off after the first wave of pitstops.

I absolutely believe that knowing that there will be no cautions in a race encourages cleaner and more conservative driving. No one wants to be the guy that loses a chunk of time because he did something overly aggressive that didn't need to happen.

And I have to absolutely disagree with this. Almost every oval race we've had had a wreck involved.
And I'll tell you one thing, not allowing cautions actually ENCOURAGES more aggressive driving. If I am at Daytona or Indy, my mission is to get somewhere close to the front. Why? Because I know that if there is a wreck, everyone behind the wreck is in a position to get screwed. Knowing that there won't be any cautions to save me, I got to be leading or near the leader to avoid anything that happens behind me. And I know everyone feels this way and when we all try to get upfront, more aggressive driving and passing, more two wides and even three wides, and guess what more wrecks. (And the battle for laps lead doesn't help out either :sly:

)

Also, I like the fact that the field naturally separates itself over the course of a long race. I feel like accidents tend to happen with the same cars again and again for a reason (with some obvious exceptions: Mudd in S2 and Carb in S3). I normally don't want those cars to be reintroduced to the lead pack freely because of a caution. Yes, sometimes other cars will be collected. But, I think it's better for everyone if we let accidents keep the more accident-prone drivers away from the leaders as much as possible.

You are totally right here.
I am being very specific when cautions should be brought out.
Only Daytona, Indy, and SSRX.
Only if the main pack is still together. Once people begin to make their first pitstops for their strategies, cautions are done.

I felt bad for Carb when he spun out. His example is perfect to what I am trying to say, he was innocent driver keeping it safe and staying in last place, and because of other driver's fault, his race was over.

Matty · Jul 13, 2012

I have to say I kind of agree with partyhat on this. Partly because of the many innocent drivers that do get taken out. And that laps lead and fear of being in a wreck does ironically lead to more wrecks.

But in saying that I agree with Tom too in saying cautions don't suit this series.

But again with what partyhat said and in drawing a line between both I think that only first stint cautions (When the first car pits.) On ovals only is a good idea.

Müle · Jul 13, 2012

Can we debate this after the season is over? There's no sense in implementing it now, with only 2 weeks left.

RedPartyhat · Jul 13, 2012

MÜLE_9242;7338858
Can we debate this after the season is over? There's no sense in implementing it now, with only 2 weeks left.

Yea I said this is a suggestion for next season.

Furinkazen · Jul 13, 2012

Should be able to do this saturday 👍

MustangRyan · Jul 13, 2012

RedPartyhat
Cautions are still called in real life so I don't agree with this point.

Not having cautions in our league is what keeps more cars that were involved in accidents near the back of the finishing order, just like they would finish in real life, since their cars would have received damaged from a real accident. If we had cautions in our league, cars that should have been out of contention (at least temporarily) would be fighting for laps led again in two laps. To me, that is unacceptable. If you can work your way back up, that's great. If not, tough luck.

RedPartyhat
Not at Indy, Daytona, or SSRX where once you lose the draft, its over. And I think those are the only 3 tracks that should have it be called.

You were asking for cautions only for accidents involving multiple cars, right? If a single car loses the draft in an accident, they weren't going to get a caution called, by your own standard. So, they would still be out of luck. If multiple cars wrecked, they have each other to work with, and it definitely benefits them to get back together to try to work their way back up to the front.

RedPartyhat
That also literally happened to Carbonox at the Chase Daytona race few weeks ago and he managed to get a whopping last. I recall that wreck as someone went under me and I got dangerously loose but managed to save. And Carbonox who was Mr. Innocent got collected and ended up spinning out. This was still fairly early in the race. Would it have been the end of the world if we all decided to slow up for him? I don't think so.

This is a case where Carb got unlucky. It happens. For the record, Carb did also wind up pitting a third time for fuel in a two-stop race, as did a lot of other drivers that miscalculated their fuel consumption. Had Carb taken a little more fuel on his second stop, he might have made up several positions by passing the other cars that had to take a splash of fuel at the end of the race. As it was, he finished 8th, and was close to 7th.

RedPartyhat
Majority here have mics, its not hard to communicate as to what just happened. Those who have wrecked should be able to plead their case for the caution, those who haven't wrecked should be able to make their case whether or not it is a fair or unfair caution. And the official word should be made by you.

Shouldn't we be using our mics to better communicate before the accident, and not after it? If a decision has to be made about whether or not there's going to be a caution, someone is going to get mad (either way, caution or no caution). Then we'll have to listen to people bitch for 10 laps because "Driver X had a caution called for him under the exact same circumstances 3 races ago." I'm not going to try to decide what counts as a caution and what doesn't based on accidents I can't see multiple times via replay.

RedPartyhat
And I have to absolutely disagree with this. Almost every oval race we've had had a wreck involved.
And I'll tell you one thing, not allowing cautions actually ENCOURAGES more aggressive driving. If I am at Daytona or Indy, my mission is to get somewhere close to the front. Why? Because I know that if there is a wreck, everyone behind the wreck is in a position to get screwed. Knowing that there won't be any cautions to save me, I got to be leading or near the leader to avoid anything that happens behind me. And I know everyone feels this way and when we all try to get upfront, more aggressive driving and passing, more two wides and even three wides, and guess what more wrecks. (And the battle for laps lead doesn't help out either )

The reason there are wrecks isn't because people are trying to get to the front. It's because they are doing so in a reckless manner. At Daytona, you can't have every single car packed in to lane 1 and lane 2 and expect to drive away. Cars push up, cars slide, and most DS3 drivers swerve back and forth between the bottom two lanes on most laps. It is very possible to pass on the outside at Daytona, but most people aren't willing to try it. You need a group of three cars, and you need to run up high near the wall, and NOT in lane 2, right on top of the other cars. Run in what would be lane 3 or lane 4, and you'll have all the room you need to carry some speed out of the corner without fear of someone sliding in to you in the middle of the corner. If you aren't going to commit to cleanly passing high, you need to lay back and not push, so that when cars in front of you slip, you're not going to run over them. The seventh car in line on the bottom absolutely should NOT be pushing the sixth car into the back of the fifth-place car, if they don't have anywhere to go.

At Indy, it's everyone trying to get to the bottom and stay there. It's very possible to pass or hold position on the outside. I've seen numerous cars do it. The reason most cars don't want to do it is because they don't trust the car on the inside to hold the bottom well enough to not slide up and squeeze them into the wall.

At SSRX, there is absolutely no excuse for wrecking on any lap other than the last one, where patience usually goes out the window. The track is probably 7-8 cars wide, meaning you can run side-by-side for miles, and still have 3-4 car widths between you and another line of cars. In the corners, everyone should know that pushing is dangerous, and should try to avoid it. The corners are wide enough that we should be able to drive three-wide and never touch. The only thing that causes wrecks at SSRX is impatience (and probably some boredom/monotony).

RedPartyhat
You are totally right here.
I am being very specific when cautions should be brought out.
Only Daytona, Indy, and SSRX.
Only if the main pack is still together. Once people begin to make their first pitstops for their strategies, cautions are done.

So now we are breaking down what is or isn't a caution again? What constitutes a main pack? What if one guy has gotten out to a large lead, and everyone else is behind him in a large pack? Does the main pack also have to be the lead pack?

Think back to Knelly's win at Indy this season. When Nate and Mule wrecked running 2nd and 3rd, should we have called a caution, and let everyone catch up to Knelly?

RedPartyhat
I felt bad for Carb when he spun out. His example is perfect to what I am trying to say, he was innocent driver keeping it safe and staying in last place, and because of other driver's fault, his race was over.

Carb caught a bad break. It happens. Carb wasn't exactly in last place just coasting around (he had been fighting for the lead just a few laps prior and got shuffled back), but he was near the back of the pack at the time of the accident, so I understand your point.

However, I will remind you that Carb's wreck wouldn't have qualified for a caution by your own standard (multi-car accidents only). I'll also remind you that had Carb played his fuel better, he still could have salvaged a top 5-6 finish. That's not too bad when you consider he was all alone in 10th place on lap 25 in a 100-lap race.

Cowboys965 · Jul 13, 2012

Guys I don't think I'll race this weekend either.

I only want to race once or twice.

Chqr can have my seat at SSRX.

RedPartyhat · Jul 13, 2012

MustangRyan
.

Yes I am being very specific when it comes to caution.
When I mean main pack, I mean when EVERYONE is still together. If people begin splitting up, cautions are done.
And no I am not referring to only multi-car wrecks, I am referring to drivers getting collected from other's mistakes. In which it was Carb alone.

Anyway I think we should just vote on it. :indiff:

Niop · Jul 13, 2012

No cautions. They would ruin this series. I was part of another series that ran cautions, and I can't count how many times a caution single handed has stole a win from me and others.

It doesn't matter how unlucky someone is, they will realize cautions screw their race more than they help.

Furinkazen · Jul 13, 2012

We're piloting Cautions in Trucks, but they are harder to control having no downforce and 750hp.

I say no cautions for Sprint Cup.

Carbonox · Jul 13, 2012

I'm strongly in favor of cautions, even though I know that they can have their negative consequences. However, that latest Daytona race made me think that it could be a better idea to give up than keep going from such a hopeless situation - when you lose the draft, you go slow as a snail compared to the pack, and you can't even save fuel and tires without going even slower. The only positions I gained were from RPH and Mule, because... the former DC'd and the latter had to do a splash'n'go at the end. Racing alone in Daytona is as enjoyable as milking a goat on a stairway.

Furinkazen · Jul 14, 2012

I'm back in the #11 for the final time this season.

Take it it's a quali race again for SSRX?

Furinkazen · Jul 14, 2012

NASCAR Trucks Season 4 Official Thread Now Open!

Tom. · Jul 14, 2012

I'm becoming severely pissed with my internet provider, it has massive slowdown every other Saturday night. We should be upgrading to the 60 meg package after the season end which should improve my connection in these 'slow down' times on weekend nights.

At least if I've got issues tonight I can just sit at the back of the pack for an hour and not talk.

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