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zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

Skills
Devise and implement a driver rating system where at the end of the night we rank our peers?
K.I.S.S.-keep it simple stupid.
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me. beck

I like that idea! In fact, I love it! And here's why..

Since the very beginning, one of the biggest challenges of this league has been getting people to file racing complaints. Some people simply refuse to do it for one reason or another. Meanwhile, drivers who are overly-aggressive and and have a "win at all costs" mentality continue on racing as if there's nothing wrong with that - simply because they don't get any complaints.

And while "winning at all costs" is a great mentality to have for a professional driver in a professional racing series, it isn't the kind of driving that we encourage in this league. More importantly, it's not the kind of driving that's able to sustain an online racing league such this. I think a rating system would be a good way to police the type over over-aggressive driving that has pushed many drivers out of this league.

If we were rated by our peers, we'd be able to see how we all "stack up" in terms of racecraft. It'd be a much more comprehensive gauge than just voting for one driver because that doesn't allow us to give our feedback one driver. Whereas asking everyone to stack rank their peers would surely give us a much better idea of the overall racecraft of the league. 👍

Worst_Driver · Dec 11, 2012

Vol Jbolaz
Yeah... that's brilliant. That will totally encourage close, exciting driving.

All this talk about changing the awards around, can we have some sort of award system for people that propose car/track combos that last and shame those that create one-and-done combos?

Take it easy, we're in a friendly and relaxed league. My choice was all about originality and variety. Like Forced Go karts' on Kart Space, we only did it once (unfortunately) and it was fun or if you didn't like it, it was different and original.

That's what I wanted to do here with my Cobra, we need those ''one-and-done'' combos (if my combo ends up like that) and it's not because a combo does not stay more than a week that it's not worthy to be raced. I knew that it wouldn't be into the likes of everybody, but you need to open your horizons and give it a try.

Now, I'm gonna go back at Trial Mountain with the Snake.

dangerzone641 · Dec 11, 2012

KuulKrinne
Oh yes my friend im gonna miss you.. But i will still be online until first week of January, so when you wanna race just tell me and I'll be there

If i can practice i will race this sunday.. Maybe but i dont think so. but you are on D2 now so... that wont make any difference

Please you deserve to be in D2, you just as fast as me man, anyways good luck

DrKronin · Dec 11, 2012

Skills
Devise and implement a driver rating system where at the end of the night we rank our peers?
K.I.S.S.-keep it simple stupid.
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me. beck

zer05ive
I like that idea! In fact, I love it! And here's why..

Since the very beginning, one of the biggest challenges of this league has been getting people to file racing complaints. Some people simply refuse to do it for one reason or another. Meanwhile, drivers who are overly-aggressive and and have a "win at all costs" mentality continue on racing as if there's nothing wrong with that.

And while "winning at all costs" is a great mentality to have for a professional driver in a professional racing series, it isn't the kind of driving that we encourage in this league. More importantly, it's not the kind of driving that's able to sustain an online racing league such this.

If we were rated by our peers, we'd be able to see how we all "stack up" in terms of racecraft. It'd be a much more comprehensive gauge than just voting for one driver because that doesn't allow us to give our feedback one driver. Whereas asking everyone to stack rank their peers would surely give us a much better idea of the overall racecraft of the league. 👍

I like it, too -- a lot. I do see a challenge: How do we get honest participation? A vote in the lounge at the end of the night is public, and might end up being more a reflection of social dominance than good racecraft. A secret vote set up somehow on the Internet would be simple to do, but I suspect participation would be low.

OwensRacing · Dec 11, 2012

Liking the Shelby Cobra combo.

Looking like 1:35-1:40 lap times. At 1:40, 6 laps is 10 minutes. However in the upper Divisions. It will be 9-9.5 minutes. So maybe 7.

AMWeaver47 · Dec 11, 2012

Just attempting to clear this up.

Vol was absolutely not in the wrong in his actions on Sunday night. For those of you that chose to chime in that weren't even in the room, and there were a few of you, the race was started early by what I will call a ghost in the machine when there were only a few people on the track. We were then forced to do a manual grid only to have the race started again before we could get set up. I heard instructions to stay put and hold the brakes at the start which a couple did and the front half of the pack didn't. I heard nothing about just continuing with the race and was surprised to see so many take off (myself included). I would say this should be a sign that we need a better plan that everyone understands if this were to happen again, not a sign that we should all rip on the guy for being pissed about having been cheated out of a proper race. Honestly if I had been in the same situation, I'd be upset too.

This post isn't an attempt to argue, just to give everyone involved a look into the story from an unbiased view. I wish we could figure out how to make this a more peaceful group because it seems to have gotten more aggressive since I joined.

Skills · Dec 11, 2012

Pm the steward for the division? Any other thoughts? Make it mandatory, dock points, 0 points for the night, etc. SOMETHING can be thought of. We are all smart fellows, but some of us are fart smellers.

zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

JoeW
It's a microcosm of our politically correct society where there are no losers. Everyone gets a participation medal and everyone is entitled to a prize.

It started in the late 80's and it's only getting worse.

Actually, it's a way to reward the drivers who are the most indispensable to this league - those that put good racecraft above all else. Who knows, if we're able to develop a fair racecraft ranking system for the league, we may just reward the highest rate drivers with Prize A and Prize B rather than the drivers who score the most points!

I admit that idea is a bit far-fetched at the moment, but I'm determined to reward good racecraft in this league with meaningful prizes. Right now, the most meaningful reward we can offer is the ability to choose the car and tracks that we race. 👍

Wolfsatz · Dec 11, 2012

dangerzone641
Great its the R8 all over again (wait i picked that combo)

This one seems to handle better than the Audi...however still much throttle control needs to be watched carefully... It was a great mini practice night guys!

I was able o manage 1.37.xx on my faster laps (2 in a row)...

zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

Apmaddock
It's 20 minutes early but…whatever…

There's been only one complaint so far this week. It's against our Prize C winner. I suppose it depends on how zer0 decides to divvy the prizes (unless his decision on such is already final) as to what's good to go and what isn't, but I can say that the Prize A winner is free and clear.

I've decided to go ahead with the original plan and have already discussed it with Luv2Coach. We should be hearing from him shortly. This will just be a temporary way to reward good racecraft on occasions where a Prize A or Prize B winner has already won a prize that month. I'm hoping that we can an improved way of doing that soon.

Luv2Coach · Dec 11, 2012

However, Luv2Coach has already won Prize B this month. Thefore, the new Prize B winner will be based on racecraft! Luv2Coach, please select the driver in D3 that you feel had the best racecraft this week or has the best racecraft in general. He will be the new Prize B winner!

After a discussion with zer0, I told him my racecraft choice is Spooble. I had to choose one of three drivers whom I thought showed good racecraft. So I used probability to use a fair random selecting process for the three drivers. Spooble was chosen. All of you guys are class and I enjoy racing here. Congrats Spooble.

And a note for those who thought the Vette was on skates; you ain't seen nothin' yet. One word...Cobra.

OwensRacing · Dec 11, 2012

zer05ive
I've decided to go ahead with the original plan and have already discussed it with Luv2Coach. We should be hearing from him shortly. This will just be a temporary way to reward good racecraft on occasions where a Prize A or Prize B winner has already won a prize that month. I'm hoping that we can an improved way of doing that soon.

Idea

The voting. Have the winner pick from a list the drivers from that division put up. Basically. Make list with drivers name. They quote it and full in their choices. Then the winner picks one from them. Be fairly simple and open book.

Give it 24hrs from time you post list. At which point winner picks one from the list.

Almost self sufficient once first post is done.

Apmaddock · Dec 11, 2012

zer05ive
\if we're able to develop a fair racecraft ranking system for the league, we may just reward the highest rate drivers with Prize A and Prize B rather than the drivers who score the most points!

I'm a steward and strive for good racecraft but I really don't like the sound of that…

We should be facilitating good racing, not judging it.

jobyone · Dec 11, 2012

1. What about banning anyone on probation from winning a prize selection? That way the fastest clean driver wins?

2. Would any S.N.A.I.Ls like to schedule a late night practice session for this weeks combos?

3. On a more fun note. I would like to try and get a few late night S.N.A.I.Ls together for a low PP event.

Start time 9 pm pst the night would depend on those interested.

My thinking is any production car with only an oil change. All cars run on comfort soft tires. To try to even things out a bit without turning boost on drivers from each division will run a slightly different PP:

D5 - 370
D4 - 365
D3 - 360
D2 - 355
D1 - 350

Winner has to drop 5 PP and last place can increase 5 PP to the maximum of 370 and minimum of 350. Changes in PP will need to be made by new car selection not by engine limiting so make sure you have a few cars to choose from.

Tracks to be decided on the night so no practicing. Simply show up and have fun.

Anyone interested? How about if I throw in a $10 psn card to the nights overall winner?

zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

DrKronin
I like it, too -- a lot. I do see a challenge: How do we get honest participation? A vote in the lounge at the end of the night is public, and might end up being more a reflection of social dominance than good racecraft. A secret vote set up somehow on the Internet would be simple to do, but I suspect participation would be low.

First of all, it's got to be private for the reasons that you mentioned. I imagine it'd be a lot like racecraft form that we asked everyone to fill out at the end of September and October. Only it'd be a little more detailed since you'd be asked to rate (or stack rank) every driver in your division, not just vote for one. The results would then be averaged in order to produce a ranking for each driver. Of course, we'd allow driver to change their ratings/rankings every so often (once a week or once a month) which would allow us to chart the progress or drivers' ratings as they go up or down over time. Thoughts?

jobyone · Dec 11, 2012

Wolfsatz
This one seems to handle better than the Audi...however still much throttle control needs to be watched carefully... It was a great mini practice night guys!

I was able o manage 1.37.xx on my faster laps (2 in a row)...

Fun practice tonight. I definitely feel that with this car slower is faster. Ran 1:36.xx by taking corners slowly and not sliding. Was barely seeing tire wear after 4 laps. I imagine if you are sliding in the first few laps you will not have any by the end of 7

It should be fun

Someone(Nic-KL?) ran a 1:34 dead.

racefan78 · Dec 11, 2012

jobyone
1. What about banning anyone on probation from winning a prize selection? That way the fastest clean driver wins?

That sounds like a good idea to me 👍

On an unrelated note, are you still doing those power rankings you showed us a while back? I though those were really neat statistics

jobyone · Dec 11, 2012

racefan78
That sounds like a good idea to me 👍

On an unrelated note, are you still doing those power rankings you showed us a while back? I though those were really neat statistics

No one has updated the spreadsheet last time I checked (I need to update d4 and d5). As soon as I get numbers I will post the power rankings. If anyone would like to help with the statistics we could use some more volunteers

racefan78 · Dec 11, 2012

jobyone
No one has updated the spreadsheet last time I checked (I need to update d4 and d5). As soon as I get numbers I will post the power rankings. If anyone would like to help with the statistics we could use some more volunteers

I can help out if you need it. I mean, I'm no math whiz, but I know my way around a spreadsheet. Let me know if there's something I can do.

hillracing · Dec 11, 2012

Apmaddock
I'm a steward and strive for good racecraft but I really don't like the sound of that

We should be facilitating good racing, not judging it.

👍

I mean what's the ultimate goal here? To have a great racing league with clean racers having fun on a Sunday night and during all SNAIL support races. Right? I know that's why I race here.

jobyone · Dec 11, 2012

racefan78
I can help out if you need it. I mean, I'm no math whiz, but I know my way around a spreadsheet. Let me know if there's something I can do.

If you would be willing to update the spreadsheet for your division it would be a huge help. It takes about 30 minutes and all you need is the replays and access to the spreadsheet.

Kcheeb looks like we might have another victim I mean volunteer

zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

OwensRacing
Idea

The voting. Have the winner pick from a list the drivers from that division put up. Basically. Make list with drivers name. They quote it and full in their choices. Then the winner picks one from them. Be fairly simple and open book.

Give it 24hrs from time you post list. At which point winner picks one from the list.

Almost self sufficient once first post is done.

I think that's great idea as far as giving a wider range of driver the opportunity to pick (or at least influence) the car and track combos. However, it doesn't really reward racecraft, which is one of the objectives I was hoping to accomplish so long as it can be done in a logical and efficient way. That being said, I have to admit that Coach's random selection isn't what I had in mind lol. Perhaps we'll give your idea a shot next time we have a repeat winner.

kendawg · Dec 11, 2012

My thinking is any production car with only an oil change. All cars run on comfort soft tires. To try to even things out a bit without turning boost on drivers from each division will run a slightly different PP:

D5 - 370
D4 - 365
D3 - 360
D2 - 355
D1 - 350

Winner has to drop 5 PP and last place can increase 5 PP to the maximum of 370 and minimum of 350. Changes in PP will need to be made by new car selection not by engine limiting so make sure you have a few cars to choose from.

Tracks to be decided on the night so no practicing. Simply show up and have fun.

Anyone interested? How about if I throw in a $10 psn card to the nights overall winner?

[/QUOTE]

Totally awsome. How about doing this on Tuesday night. Running a race for about 30 min. then reverse grid for another 30 min.
Increase the PP by 50 each week. :sly:

zer05ive · Dec 11, 2012

kendawg, just a quick tip that when you delete the first

bracket with the name of the person you're quoting, it looks like you're saying what you're actually only trying to quote. Just sayin' since that's the second time you've done that today.

Luv2Coach · Dec 11, 2012

This is the only place I have found that I have good, clean competition. Drivers truly want to improve their racecraft (and do so), and want good racing (and it is). I race to win, period. If it is another sport, I play to win.

At the same time, honoring the sport (racecraft in racing) is a priority for me. SNAIL is a huge help in that regard. In baseball, we coaches are always telling the kids to "play the game right!"; "compete!"; "never quit!"; and "finish strong!" These principles can be applied here too.

Good racecraft (playing the game right) = good competition. And never quitting is applied in life as well as sports: Never quit and you will finish strong. And sometimes, if you don't quit and finish strong, good things happen. An example of not quitting would be getting pushed off track in the first lap and having to work your way from dead last, to a top 5 finish.

So please come up with a solution to the prizes... and let's go racin'!!!

kendawg · Dec 11, 2012

zer05ive
kendawg, just a quick tip that when you delete the first

bracket with the name of the person you're quoting, it looks like you're saying what you're actually only trying to quote. Just sayin' since that's the second time you've done that today.

Click to expand...

I noticed that too. Sorry, not as good as everyone else.. I need a Zer05ive computor class....
But I do like that idea..

hillracing · Dec 11, 2012

Luv2Coach
This is the only place I have found that I have good, clean competition. Drivers truly want to improve their racecraft (and do so), and want good racing (and it is). I race to win, period. If it is another sport, I play to win.

At the same time, honoring the sport (racecraft in racing) is a priority for me. SNAIL is a huge help in that regard. In baseball, we coaches are always telling the kids to "play the game right!"; "compete!"; "never quit!"; and "finish strong!" These principles can be applied here too.

Good racecraft (playing the game right) = good competition. And never quitting is applied in life as well as sports: Never quit and you will finish strong. And sometimes, if you don't quit and finish strong, good things happen. An example of not quitting would be getting pushed off track in the first lap and having to work your way from dead last, to a top 5 finish.

So please come up with a solution to the prizes... and let's go racin'!!!

👍

Luv2Coach · Dec 11, 2012

To save time, what combo did the Cobra @ Trial Mtn. replace? Too tired to go back and find post for votes.

OwensRacing · Dec 11, 2012

Luv2Coach
To save time, what combo did the Cobra @ Trial Mtn. replace? Too tired to go back and find post for votes.

ZR1 / Tokyo

FWIW:
Cobra Broken in = 509 HP / 504 TQ / 543 PP

It's a beast at 4.6:1 WT/HP

Luv2Coach · Dec 11, 2012

OwensRacing
ZR1 / Tokyo

Dang...

...good car to race or cruise. Like it's versatility.

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