- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
Wouldn't the best way to make your point be to make your point and back it up with facts and infallible logic, rather than to resort to wild hyperbole and speculation or tenuous analogies...?
The Xbox One Thread - One X & One SXBOne
- Thread starter Robin
- 5,072 comments
- 276,695 views
I do think however that Xbox One will be a commercial flop.
Even if the original XBOX had the XBL gold service that required broadband and a yearly fee, it still wasn't as restrictive to the user content. Also, even back then MS acknowledge how MP would work for the 360 given how Halo 1 worked in LAN parties, hence the high demand for subsequent XBL services for Halo 2 and a more mainstream-easier to approach XBL service for the 360.
In this case is different, MS is making kinect a must for features no one asked for, perpetual online for authentication that people didn't asked for, and overly worked DRM that will only piss off potential customers.
As horrendously amazing the games for it might be, and despite the massive client base that COD/Halo/Gears provides it will not be enough, price is not competitive, restrictions are severe and basic working requirements will throw people away from it, people looking for a dedicated gaming device will be immediate thrown away from it due to the amount of featured that other devices already do (PS3 advertised itself as a media centre, like current Xbox One is doing and it didn't amount for a thing, apart from netflix).
MS stocks have been going down (reaching -0.8% value since Sony's E3 conference), and shareholders will not be happy when the Xbox doesn't reach the PVR/Cable/Social services market it is aiming, less audience for it will probably cripple even further it's market, thus making the thing flop.
PS4 is pretty similar to the PS2 in function and general design(dedicated gaming device with a flexible development environment and strong 3rd party support), while the Xbox One might shape into what the Sega Dreamcast was, and how it ended up to be.
Even if the original XBOX had the XBL gold service that required broadband and a yearly fee, it still wasn't as restrictive to the user content. Also, even back then MS acknowledge how MP would work for the 360 given how Halo 1 worked in LAN parties, hence the high demand for subsequent XBL services for Halo 2 and a more mainstream-easier to approach XBL service for the 360.
In this case is different, MS is making kinect a must for features no one asked for, perpetual online for authentication that people didn't asked for, and overly worked DRM that will only piss off potential customers.
As horrendously amazing the games for it might be, and despite the massive client base that COD/Halo/Gears provides it will not be enough, price is not competitive, restrictions are severe and basic working requirements will throw people away from it, people looking for a dedicated gaming device will be immediate thrown away from it due to the amount of featured that other devices already do (PS3 advertised itself as a media centre, like current Xbox One is doing and it didn't amount for a thing, apart from netflix).
MS stocks have been going down (reaching -0.8% value since Sony's E3 conference), and shareholders will not be happy when the Xbox doesn't reach the PVR/Cable/Social services market it is aiming, less audience for it will probably cripple even further it's market, thus making the thing flop.
PS4 is pretty similar to the PS2 in function and general design(dedicated gaming device with a flexible development environment and strong 3rd party support), while the Xbox One might shape into what the Sega Dreamcast was, and how it ended up to be.
- 8,017
- GTP_Royalton
What type of sales will mean its a flop to Microsoft?
Going in they had to have known not everybody who owns a 360 has Xbox Live. I believe the number is 75 million Xbox 360s with only 45 million on Live.
So now they're working with an audience of 50 million. Add onto that the higher price point, used game hassle, 24 hour check ins, spooky Kinect, and their audience grows even smaller.
BUT, if Microsoft only sales 40-45 million Xbox Ones next gen compared to a PS4 that sells 80+ million, would it be a flop in their eyes, or wallet? After stamping out the sale of used games the console will be more profitable. Kinect will gather detailed information about each user, helping Microsoft sell them products they care about. Also Microsoft can sell each user's information for a nice profit.
So while Microsoft may sell way fewer Xbox Ones, each console will likely be more profitable then each PS4.
Going in they had to have known not everybody who owns a 360 has Xbox Live. I believe the number is 75 million Xbox 360s with only 45 million on Live.
So now they're working with an audience of 50 million. Add onto that the higher price point, used game hassle, 24 hour check ins, spooky Kinect, and their audience grows even smaller.
BUT, if Microsoft only sales 40-45 million Xbox Ones next gen compared to a PS4 that sells 80+ million, would it be a flop in their eyes, or wallet? After stamping out the sale of used games the console will be more profitable. Kinect will gather detailed information about each user, helping Microsoft sell them products they care about. Also Microsoft can sell each user's information for a nice profit.
So while Microsoft may sell way fewer Xbox Ones, each console will likely be more profitable then each PS4.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
Yep lots of benefits for MS no benefits for us. They should give the console to us for free and require us to agree to a 4 year Gold subscription if they expect us to let them have all that info and endure not being able to play without n internet connection.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
And you just fall over at the first bit of promotional material that is shoved your way? Do you not have your own mind? Let them learn all they can about me and sell it to whoever they want, I'm strong willed enough to decide for myself. It appears you don't have a strong enough back bone to resist?
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
I hate this business model, I'm for used games but I can tollerate it if I can play something like Forza 5.
What I cannot tollerate is:
1- kinect spying my room, it has to be seen if duct tape works. Do Microsoft really need to see my balls?? Why? LOL
2- no steering wheel support for actual generation of Fanatech Logitech ect.
So purchasing an Xbone is 500 euro + the cost of a new Trustmuster steering wheel made for it, I guess in the range of 350 / 450 euro which means almost 1000 euro without considering XBL and still get MS spying my balls.
I already have a steering wheel, if I buy a new pc I spend the same money for hardware and I won't get spied.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
They have every right. It's their product and they can choose how it works. Consumers decide if they are prepared to buy it. By all means choose not to buy it for that reason. But don't claim it's wrong. There is no wrong and right in this.
If you use the internet on a multitude of devices you are monitored in this way thousands of time every day. Why such a problem when a console does it?
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
If you buy the system in full knowledge of it's capabilities how can it possibly be wrong? Their is no wrong or right in this. If it was forced on you, you were made to buy the console then it would be wrong. You have a choice, when a choice is involved there is no wrong or right. So feel free to make that choice but leave out the sensationalism
- 87,728
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
... by keywords and browsing history ...
... by an auditory and visual spectrum/IR surveillance device listening and watching everything you say and do and feel so long as it's powered up.
It's quite an ideological gulf. What you choose to look for on the internet being used to build a profile of your browsing habits and interests by the sites you visit (noticed the new warnings about cookies on websites recently?) is voluntary. Kinect has the potential to do the same thing with your involuntary emotional responses to stimuli - and only to Microsoft (and the NSA
). It's not just selling the personal data you volunteer, but what you're thinking (facial recognition plus heartrate plus emotional state gets you 95% of the way there, even if it's shy of the exact thoughts; it's almost a polygraph) - and no, they don't have that right.Your internet browser knows what news stories you've read. Kinect has the potential to know if you're sympathetic to an extremist group, angry at your head of state or attracted to children by your involuntary responses to the news stories you've read...
We have a long tradition in the UK of charging people who say distasteful things with crimes. A guy was actually locked up for telling a Sickipedia joke on Twitter about the kidnapped (and murdered) Welsh girl April Jones - and recently a woman was given 120 hours' community service for saying on Twitter that people who wore Help for Heroes shirts deserved to be beheaded. The offence is "malicious communications", which you commit by sending a remark by telephony or the internet that can be deemed offensive.
Enter Kinect. The device is network enabled, so it fulfils the means required for the malicious communications offence. Now all you need is an off-the-cuff or unguarded remark to yourself, in your house about how a politician should be shot, or telling a close-to-the-bone joke about paedophiles and you've committed the offence.
It's unclear what Kinect will be permitted to do (which in itself is a concern). It may be that it's just going to be used to allow you to interact better with your console but it has the potential to do all of the above.
Expansion of its function from innocent to sinister is a mere change of the EULA away and this isn't without precedent - remember Sony deciding you could either play games OR have OtherOS on there, but not both despite originally being sold as doing both at once? They did that by changing the EULA. Almost everyone didn't bother reading it and sucked it up - because almost everyone doesn't bother reading EULAs. Or an NSL, which Microsoft wouldn't be allowed to let you know about, to turn over any data it does record to federal agencies (to be shared with GCHQ). Or even both - won't that be fun?
MS need to clarify just what Kinect can do and what it will be allowed to do. As it stands it's a required, networked device that can see you in visible light and infra red and hear you at any time that it is powered, whether the console is on or off. Of course if they're as good at clarifying that as they were at clarifying the secondhand/rental games thing, it'll be significantly less clear. Perhaps they'll tell us they make a console for people who care about not having their thoughts used for targetted advertising and law enforcement, called the 360?
Amusing, MS are running this advert at the moment for their other products...
- 2,756
- Brisbane
- thelvynau
- Thelvynau
PzR SlimIf you buy the system in full knowledge of it's capabilities how can it possibly be wrong? Their is no wrong or right in this. If it was forced on you, you were made to buy the console then it would be wrong. You have a choice, when a choice is involved there is no wrong or right. So feel free to make that choice but leave out the sensationalism
Ok you lost me on the sensationalism.
Regardless you still believe its right to film people in their own homes?
Speaking of which has Microsoft confirmed they will be filming all times?
- 87,728
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Actually there is: a product whose normal use breaches rights - moreso if it fails to inform you. If the product, once every six uses, tried to stab you in the thigh, would you blithely go "Oh, just don't buy it then. If you buy one and get stabbed, it's your choice" or would you, quite rightly, say "Hang on, that's a bit wrong."?Xbox 1 is voluntary. You choose to buy it
If you don't like it, don't use it is a fair message - but "it" needs to be clarified before anyone can make a reasoned choice. If "it" is just a control method for your console, the choice to buy it isn't a problem. If "it" can ever be used as surveillance device - for what you say, what you do, what you think and what you feel - the choice to buy it is a problem, because now you're buying a product whose normal use breaches your rights in every bit as significant a way as being stabbed in the thigh 15% of the time.
As of yet, I've not seen anything from MS about the limitations - present or future - of this heart-rate-checking, always-on-if-powered, networked piece of audiovisual capture equipment. So any choice is not an informed one.
- 388
- Antwerp, Belgium
Xbox 1 is voluntary. You choose to buy it
This isn't exactly true, certainly not in the EU. Not everyone will be as informed about its features as us people on gaming forums. There IS a right and wrong, which the EU decides to protect ignorant consumers. It'll be very interesting to see what the EU has to say about a product that has the potential to spy on you while sat in front of your tv. Companies don't have the right to sell whatever they want over here.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Someone got Community service for saying stuff like (Certain group should be beheaded 
) ,by that count Jeremy Clarkson should be in jail.by now /Off Topic
) ,by that count Jeremy Clarkson should be in jail.by now /Off Topic
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 505
- United States
I would not let anyone even bring an Xbox One into my house. I just couldn't stand the thought of a camera that has to be on to play your Xbox I would go crazy thinking someone is stalking me through the Internet!
- 8,945
- F1 chimp land
- AnotherStory
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