◆ SNAIL [DriveTrain Challenge - DTC] Racing - Closed

  • Thread starter jobyone
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So this week lets just issue a warning to Kendawg an Goat to be a bit more careful next week. In particular Goat please be aware that any bumping by the Ram has a huge effect on the other car.

I was trying to bump draft but it turned into a violent shove. Not what I intended. The Ram will be cut from my line up due to my failure to drive it properly.
 
After these messages, I'll be right back!
Getting some bfast then I'll address these questions and ideas.
 
Rally if you would be willing to help with the occasional stewarding I will draft up a plan. I would love one or two other people who would be willing to do some occasional stewarding.
I think the most important issue is not so much worrying about penalizing a bunch of minor incidents... but having agreement that lots of bumping and minor incidents is simply annoying when added up within a couple of laps, and should be avoided, for the benefit of civil camaraderie.
I'm in the same chapter as Melon ball. Not quite the same page, but the same chapter for sure. I don't think we need anything like SNAIL runs. That being said, I think we do need some sort of stewardship, nothing crazy, but perhaps just a person or two to do to watch the replays and look for serious offenses, those incidents where someone just creams people, like the Kendawg incident in the replay from last monday. Or for corner cutting and repeat offenders on small things. Something else I would like to note, and this is where I get a bit away from the OLR. I think some amount of contact is fine. Like in the BTCC. That said, I will gladly give up some time for that. Just not yet. Still working on getting my real life situations done (job, school and move) once I get the move done (waiting on the sellers back, word of advice, don't buy a short sale unless you're willing to wait a few months) though, I should be good to go.



Should we impose a no passing until after the first turn rule?
This needs to be all or nothing. No need to complicate a simple thing by trying to figure out what courses should or shouldnt use this rule. That said, I say no. I think that is part of the fun, the mad dash to the first corner is exciting. And since we are running cars in different PP ranges, it gets unpractical. If two people are in high pp cars and the rest of the grid is low pp, but the two start in the back?

Now one point to bring up to the rest. Goats truck was actually the fastest at Cote. With that in mind it might be worth making sure to give that thing a bit more room

But that brings up the issue of disregarding the GtP OLR rules... that the ahead driver has the right to their position and the idea that the passing driver is the one responsible for clean overtake.
This, I will answer, and pose a question with, if you're in a faster car, working on passing a slow car, in a lot of forms of motorsports, its perfectly legit to bump someone off their line and make a pass. Especially the BTCC. But not just that organization, its fine in all sorts of different racing orgs out there. BTCC, whatever the JTCC is now, NASCAR, etc.
here is how Dummies.com puts it
Doing the bump

At short tracks, passing isn't as much of an art as it is a technique. Cars at short tracks are going relatively slowly and there is plenty of downforce — which means the cars stick to the track — so drivers can be very aggressive without causing a big accident. In order to pass a car in front, the driver doesn't necessarily have to go below him or above him on the track.

All he has to do is give the car a healthy tap — called a bump — on the rear bumper, as shown in Figure 3. Most of the time that will cause the car to float up the track and give the driver enough room to pass by.
fg0-7645-5219-8_0903.jpg


*Citation* The immediately above info was taken from http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/passing-a-nascar-art.html

Edit:
Right, the question. So, Im sure there will be few takers, if any at all. But at those small, hard to pass tracks (Monza, and Eiger come to mind) there are few solid clean passing spots, however, there are plenty of passing spots that this technique will work, without endangering anyone. Would this be something you guys could get on board with?

BTW, this is not what I mean:
 
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I think that is part of the fun, the mad dash to the first corner is exciting.
in a lot of forms of motorsports, its perfectly legit to bump someone off their line and make a pass.

:yuck: Yeah, I don't belong in any race series that these things are going on, that's all I can say. I suppose it might work for some people in some groups, but I've seen that it just leads to escalating behaviour that's just not my cup of tea.
 
:yuck: Yeah, I don't belong in any race series that these things are going on, that's all I can say. I suppose it might work for some people in some groups, but I've seen that it just leads to escalating behaviour that's just not my cup of tea.

Yeah, I can see your point. without prize money, real cars or sponsors to lose to keep attitudes in check, I can see that idea starting a hit to pass derby. With that said, I gotta agree with Joby in that, running blocking lines against a much faster car will also probably cause the same issue.
 
Only if people are completely willing to toss out corner rights as the rule.

If we're just to let a faster car by... Then why not just pick our cars & do a time trial? Why bother racing at all?
At that point, you may as well just go back & stick to 1-make spec racing, IMHO.
 
Same as lemans. the faster cars race each other, the slow cars do to. As soon as you get to a straight, your not going to be racing a higher PP car anyway. there is a difference between corner rights and letting a known faster car go by. If someone is driving an rs200, and someone else is driving a Fiat Punta, the punta doesnt stand a chance. So why stay in the fords way? it doesnt prove anything. If somehow the Fiat was managing to stay with the ford, then I could concede that thought line. But by keeping your lower PP car in the way of a much higher pp car (Im talking like a 25 pp difference) then you stand the chance of getting smacked around more because the other car is going to do everything different. Brake points, entry and exits. There is a reason in lemans that the slower classes need to clear the way for the faster classes.

Man, I'm sorry fella's, Im not tring to get all argumentative here. My point is just that its just as annoying to get bumped out of the way, as it is to be stuck behind a much slower car. which could lead to the first issue happening. So I feel that both of these debates can be one in the same. especially on slower, tighter courses. Corner rights a track courtesy often overlap. I guess its your call if you want that faster car snuffed up your rear.
 
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The difference between LeMans and this series is that LeMans is multiple classes and they aren't really racing against cars in different classes, they are just sharing the track. In this series, every car on the track is racing against every other car for position in one class.

Catching someone is one thing, passing them is something different.
 
I am not suggesting that anyone just pull over for a faster car. But there is a point that you should think about the bigger picture. If you are at the ragged edge trying to keep a superior car at bay you are putting yourself in a position where making a mistake becomes more likely. Likewise the frustration level of the faster car will be going up. That combination rarely ends well.

I remember an earlier cap race where I was behind a slower car. I was trying to push my way through and being very aggressive. It was not getting me anywhere and I was making small contacts that I do not like to make. So I backed off and just watched for a lap. The next lap I knew where I would pass. I left some room leading up to the turn and then used my speed advantage to get a much better drive out of the turn and passed easily and cleanly.

That is what I would like to see. Smart effective passing. Not I will just stick my car inside or outside at every possible spot (of which I can be guilty of).

Also a while ago zer0 floated the idea here of having a sort of reputation score. I think Skills had the original idea. Perhaps we could give something like this a try.
 
It's all about skill my friends and isn't that what we like to prove around? Skill? Monaco is short but there's 2 or 3 places where the (Ford RS200) can pass the (Fiat Punto) as long you're smart enough to stay 20 feet behind him for that particular corner before a straight, exit the corner perfectly and smoke him in the straight.
 
I am not suggesting that anyone just pull over for a faster car. But there is a point that you should think about the bigger picture.
I agree that there are subtleties here.
And clearly there's a point where if another car has a gain on you on a straight bit, it's surely the most sensible course to give them plenty of room to pass nicely. No brainer there.
My point about this is that to start policing that gray area would be a stewardship nightmare. Like who decides racefan doesn't have a right to his leading line if Diabolic is behind him in the pick-up truck? :nervous:
I don't think many would be volunteering to steward those decisions. :lol: Sounds like a good way to make enemies fast. :scared: :ill:
That's my main point.
Not about sensible racing. But that nobody should be expected to give up their lead car cornering rights. And if they are, it has to be across the board, and someone would have to make that call. And I can tell you one thing - I wouldn't be volunteering to steward that bit of confusion. :lol:
That was my take on the whole shebang, for what it's worth.
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I have updated the Schedule with the next race.

Now we just need to hear what PP Nick would like to run. The current is 1625 so you can choose to change it +/- 25 if you would like.

Star can also choose the qualifying track. Anything from the list with the exception of the Nurburgring is ok.

I have listed the recurring participants so if you are not on the list for Monday and will be there please let me know.

Joby

Monday Race Night in D3 Lounge

3/18/13 at 10:00 PM EST/ 7:00 pm PST
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This event will run with a combined PP cap of:
1650
All cars PP must be between 351 and 474

Qualifiying and the first race will take place at

Laguna Seca

If you would like to participate in the next event please post in this thread that you would like to take part. I will add your name to the list below.

Driver (car color) - FF Car (PP) - 4wd Car (PP) - FR Car (PP) - MR Car (PP) - Total PP

Registered Participants
1. JoeW/ice-Warden*

2. Rallywagon/Rallywgn2*

3. Kendawg*

4. Nic-KL*

5. Diabolicwyvern*

6. Racefan78*
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.​
 
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That first corner:

I was on the inside of Schmiggz going into the first turn. Not to his door. But when we entered the turn I thought he would go wide and I would stay with him. I didn't know there was someone on the outside of Schmiggz. So he had to keep it tight through turn one. I clipped his rear fender and he got side ways. I let off hoping he would straighten up. Then I thought if I could push the front of his car I could straighten him back. But....didn't happen that way.

Although it looked like rough driving my intent was trying to help him out. Sorry that it didn't happen that way. If I had known there was someone on the outside of Schmiggz I would have just fell in behind him.
 
I'm a maybe for Monday so I'll work on a line up after work. Any bonus points for line ups yet? I could have used that 2 pts last Sat.
 
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I'm a maybe for Monday so I'll work on a line up after work. Any bonus points for line ups yet? I could have used that 2 pts last Sat.
If we had added the bonus points the results would have been
1. Nic-KL 57
2. Starvsnr 54
3. ChuthuluGoat - 54 (53+1 for 3 cars from three continents continents)
4. Watermelonpunch - 49
5. Kendawg - 48
6. Schmiggz - 47
7. Racefan78 - 46
8. koszak27 - 46 (44+2 for 4 cars from four different decades)
9. Diabolicwyvern - 28

So no change on the overall standings but is does tighten things up a bit.

* In the event of a tie the score without the bonus will get the tie breaker.
 
No prob joby, I was asking more for the next lineup that I was working on.

I won't be able to make Mon the 18th. I'm hoping you guys will run the following Mon 3/25 because that's the next chance I'll get.
 
Monday:

Starvsnr - RX-8 Type S '03 (436) - Tiburon GT '01 (390) - Audi S3 '02 (412) - Speedster (410) - Total 1648
 
Monday line up 3/18:

FF - 416pp - Toyota celica TRD sports M '00
4WD - 428pp - Audi TT Quattro '03
MR - 385pp - Toyota MR-S '02
FR - 416 - Subaru BRZ

Total 1645
 
Monday line up 3/18:

FF - 416pp - Toyota celica TRD sports M '00
4WD - 428pp - Audi TT Quattro '03
MR - 385pp - Toyota MR-S '02
FR - 416 - Subaru BRZ

Total 1645
Ken, I just want to make sure your brz is at 416. I am pretty sure mine is 413 and the other triplets are also. If so that gives you 8 PP to play with:scared:
 
1650 makes me mix up my lineup a bit...

S2000 type v 03 (434)
205t (414)
Mrs-v (385)
Integra type r 01 (409)

1642 total.
 
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