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[kcheeb]

Hey all,

I just wanted to bring to your attention the latest recipients of the S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star.

fzappa / tcrash15
AJKVail / AJK-VAIL
irmopars / Mighty_mopar

Congratulations 👍 and Thank You!

And to recognize our current S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star holders:

racefan78 / racefan78
JLBowler / jlbowler
kcheeb / kcheeb
AG07WRXTR / AG07WRXTR
zer05ive / zer05ive
Rallywagon / rallywgn81
cmbeal317 / cmbeal317

I think this is important to celebrate, as it highlites the good things we all do in S.N.A.I.L. Any of you familiar with setting up a race series know how often membership is turned over. S.N.A.I.L. has 10 people that have currently been racing together for over a year

Watch for more upcoming Gold Star ceremonies 👍

kcheeb

 

[fzappa]

I know a lot of people like to invoke real life racing so I will do the same.
Scenario: I am a rookie race car driver and I will be racing with racers that have been racing for a long time and are pretty damn good. The rules are set for whatever race series. Does this mean the rules are different for me, being a rookie and not as good as the other racers and the better racers have a different set of rules? I highly doubt it!
In my opinion, there is no argument that anyone could make by saying one division should have a different set of rules than others.
It's Monday! So let the back and forth begin!

 

[qwietstorm]

If you have a "valid rebuttal" voice it. How could it be pointless if it's valid?

I've quickly learned that just because something may be a "valid rebuttal" to me doesn't necessarily mean it'll be valid to anyone else. It will also start a condescending, sarcasm filled slew of hate-speech that will spiral out of control and it'll be another 2 weeks before we get back on track.

My response won't change anything and will be misconstrued like it always does so it's better to just leave that one alone.

 

[qwietstorm]

I know a lot of people like to invoke real life racing so I will do the same.
Scenario: I am a rookie race car driver and I will be racing with racers that have been racing for a long time and are pretty damn good. The rules are set for whatever race series. Does this mean the rules are different for me, being a rookie and not as good as the other racers and the better racers have a different set of rules? I highly doubt it!
In my opinion, there is no argument that anyone could make by saying one division should have a different set of rules than others.
It's Monday! So let the back and forth begin!

I can shoot that scenario down in 1 sentence. Real life racing would not initially break all drivers down into 5 groups based on skill level.

 

[hillracing]

So the guy who slows down enough to stay inbounds should let the guy who doesn't stay inbounds (because of his higher, even too-high rate of speed) go with no penalty?

Sometimes it may be faster to use a one way road, say... on your way to work, then - it's faster, right? "But officer, I was only GOING one way!" Rules can be changed, but that's before a race. After a race, it's not as much a change in rules as a plea bargain, at least in my opinion.

Umm no. That turn can be taken flat out on line but if you miss the turn in by fractions you go wide. It isn't any faster if you go wide you just go "out of bounds". These are the types of out of bounds that I don't agree with because there is no advantage gained but you can still lose points if you go a little wide.

I'm sorry! I just don't see the logic of turning penalties off for D1 and keeping it on for all other divisions. If you turn off the penalties you either turn it off for all divisions or keep them on for all divisions. I think everybody knows by now what tracks and what part of that specific track you will get a penalty if you short-cut. If you receive a penalty that means you shortcuted. If you make a mistake and shortcut then you deserve the penalty. I think the stewards have enough on their plate now then having to look at every race and every driver to make sure that nobody shortcuted in a race because penalties were off.

I'm not against stopping shortcutting where an advantage is gained or goes outside the OLR but there are times that the penalties being on ruin a race because they don't match up with the OLR. An example is last night at Fuji I was in a last lap battle and we both broke a little late and understeered off the track only to have a penalty added to our small off track excursion. Do you think this is how it should be? What advantage did we gain that we deserved a penalty for? Another example was at DFR last night I got a penalty for putting 2 wheels on the curb. I was well within OLR and had half the car on the track but the penalty system decided to hit me that time. There's no visible boundary that you can judge with some of these penalties but there is if you shut them off. Besides there are places on every track that the penalty system doesn't do anything if you cut and others that it does. I'm not against turning them off in all divisions if they can race without abusing having them off. I believe that in D1 we can race without them on without worry of people cutting the track.

 

[Drgreenthumb977]

Hey all,

I just wanted to bring to your attention the latest recipients of the S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star.

fzappa / tcrash15
AJKVail / AJK-VAIL
irmopars / Mighty_mopar

Congratulations 👍 and Thank You!

And to recognize our current S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star holders:

racefan78 / racefan78
JLBowler / jlbowler
kcheeb / kcheeb
AG07WRXTR / AG07WRXTR
zer05ive / zer05ive
Rallywagon / rallywgn81
cmbeal317 / cmbeal317

I think this is important to celebrate, as it highlites the good things we all do in S.N.A.I.L. Any of you familiar with setting up a race series know how often membership is turned over. S.N.A.I.L. has 10 people that have currently been racing together for over a year

Watch for more upcoming Gold Star ceremonies 👍

kcheeb

I hope I will do the whole year for be a gold star too. He he t:up

 

[hillracing]

I know a lot of people like to invoke real life racing so I will do the same.
Scenario: I am a rookie race car driver and I will be racing with racers that have been racing for a long time and are pretty damn good. The rules are set for whatever race series. Does this mean the rules are different for me, being a rookie and not as good as the other racers and the better racers have a different set of rules? I highly doubt it!
In my opinion, there is no argument that anyone could make by saying one division should have a different set of rules than others.
It's Monday! So let the back and forth begin!

Well lets see, in karting you are required to have an x on your helmet for the first 3 races (if I remember correctly). Also you have to start in the back for those races no matter how fast you are. In some car racing series you have to have a rookie stripe on your car and prove you can race before it's removed. Also you have to get a license to race which requires that an instructor signs off on your ability and knowledge as a driver. In other words yes in real life you have different rules as a rookie than as a veteran.

 

[fzappa]

Well lets see, in karting you are required to have an x on your helmet for the first 3 races (if I remember correctly). Also you have to start in the back for those races no matter how fast you are. In some car racing series you have to have a rookie stripe on your car and prove you can race before it's removed. Also you have to get a license to race which requires that an instructor signs off on your ability and knowledge as a driver. In other words yes in real life you have different rules as a rookie than as a veteran.

Hill, really? Go-Karting? Just because you have a rookie stripe on your car does not mean that the rules of that race or track are different for you then the veteran racers.
Come on now!

 

[Apmaddock]

Hey all,

I just wanted to bring to your attention the latest recipients of the S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star.

Did you miss this, kcheeb? Or this? Or am I a part of this:

Watch for more upcoming Gold Star ceremonies 👍

 

[racefan78]

Hey all,

I just wanted to bring to your attention the latest recipients of the S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star.

fzappa / tcrash15
AJKVail / AJK-VAIL
irmopars / Mighty_mopar

Congratulations 👍 and Thank You!

And to recognize our current S.N.A.I.L. One Year Gold Star holders:

racefan78 / racefan78
JLBowler / jlbowler
kcheeb / kcheeb
AG07WRXTR / AG07WRXTR
zer05ive / zer05ive
Rallywagon / rallywgn81
cmbeal317 / cmbeal317

I think this is important to celebrate, as it highlites the good things we all do in S.N.A.I.L. Any of you familiar with setting up a race series know how often membership is turned over. S.N.A.I.L. has 10 people that have currently been racing together for over a year

Watch for more upcoming Gold Star ceremonies 👍

kcheeb

Wow, I didn't even realize it's been a year, that's crazy! Congrats to everyone who's stuck with SNAIL for so long, especially the guys who work behind the scenes to make this possible. Hopefully we have anothergreat year ahead of us!

 

[hillracing]

Hill, really? Go-Karting? Just because you have a rookie stripe on your car does not mean that the rules of that race or track are different for you then the veteran racers.
Come on now!

Not Go-Karting, Karting. You obviously have no idea what that is. There are people who make a living racing karts. The budget for a top team in the us is over six figures for a season. It's a semi professional form of racing in Europe.

As far as the rules for rookies goes the fact that you can't even race until you've done a school and some track days is in itself a different rule for rookies. Also you can't go race in the top divisions as a rookie. For example if you wanted to race in Grand Am you couldn't unless you had enough experience to get that license. I promise you that the rules in Grand Am are looser on certain things than at a club SCCA race just like in F1 they allow more things than most club racing environments do. Basically your argument has no validity.

 

[Schmiggz]

Totally agree with t-crash and more, invoking real life racing is an absurd once we don't even have to deal with mechanical failures, broken turbos, flat tires or even wrecked cars after hitting a guard rail. Let's just not go that way.
As i said before, it takes a fair amount of skill to race in whatever division we are and knowing the penalty areas and avoiding those penalties should clearly make part of your race Knowledgement handbook. Specially if you a DIV1 Top Gun.

 

[Moperlover2]

does anyone know the d5 steward

 

[Skills]

does anyone know the d5 steward

jlbowler

 

[kcheeb]

Did you miss this, kcheeb? Or this? Or am I a part of this:

Will have to check the links when i get home, stupid phone.

The latter

 

[Wolfsatz]

does anyone know the d5 steward

All division stewards found on link on 1st post on this thread!


BTW....
Any Ipad users seeing any issues with the GTP after last weekend's update?

Having issues with some of the links (not opening)

 

[qwietstorm]

BTW....
Any Ipad users seeing any issues with the GTP after last weekend's update?

Having issues with some of the links (not opening)

Links have been working fine on the iPad, but it crashes quite frequently.

 

[fzappa]

Not Go-Karting, Karting. You obviously have no idea what that is. There are people who make a living racing karts. The budget for a top team in the us is over six figures for a season. It's a semi professional form of racing in Europe.

As far as the rules for rookies goes the fact that you can't even race until you've done a school and some track days is in itself a different rule for rookies. Also you can't go race in the top divisions as a rookie. For example if you wanted to race in Grand Am you couldn't unless you had enough experience to get that license. I promise you that the rules in Grand Am are looser on certain things than at a club SCCA race just like in F1 they allow more things than most club racing environments do. Basically your argument has no validity.

You haven't answered the question! If I am a rookie in Grand Am or NASCAR or F1 are the rules for the track/race going to be different than the rules for veterans?
No!
All race/track rules apply to everyone. Whether I'm a rookie, my first season racing or I am a 15 year veteran. So, for example, if at Daytona, the veterans are allowed to go below the yellow line but the rookies aren't allowed.
If at Indy road course, if they still had that rumble strip and white line coming back onto the main part of the track, the veteran racers are allowed to go over it but a rookie isn't.
Point I am trying to make is that you cannot have different rules for different racers no matter how good or bad they are.
D1 has awesome racers and I wish I was as good as they are but you can't have different rules just because D1 racers are better at the game then other divisions. The same rules should apply to all.
So, if penalties are turned off, they should be turned off for everyone. If penalties are to stay on they should stay on for everyone.

 

[Handlebar]

So, fzappa,


D5 can use Traction Control, Driving Line and ABS (very few do, cannot be promoted if used...) but D1-D4 may only use ABS.

Thoughts?

PS - I agree with you on penalties, boundaries, etc.

 

[OwensRacing]

All division stewards found on link on 1st post on this thread!

BTW....
Any Ipad users seeing any issues with the GTP after last weekend's update?

Having issues with some of the links (not opening)

The iPad mini and GTP don't get along. My regular iPad is ok does crash. iPhone 5 is no problems.




D1 could drop penalty and add heavy damage!

 

[the2armedmen]

BTW....
Any Ipad users seeing any issues with the GTP after last weekend's update?

Having issues with some of the links (not opening)

Not while using the website

 

[hillracing]

You haven't answered the question! If I am a rookie in Grand Am or NASCAR or F1 are the rules for the track/race going to be different than the rules for veterans?
No!
All race/track rules apply to everyone. Whether I'm a rookie, my first season racing or I am a 15 year veteran. So, for example, if at Daytona, the veterans are allowed to go below the yellow line but the rookies aren't allowed.
If at Indy road course, if they still had that rumble strip and white line coming back onto the main part of the track, the veteran racers are allowed to go over it but a rookie isn't.
Point I am trying to make is that you cannot have different rules for different racers no matter how good or bad they are.
D1 has awesome racers and I wish I was as good as they are but you can't have different rules just because D1 racers are better at the game then other divisions. The same rules should apply to all.
So, if penalties are turned off, they should be turned off for everyone. If penalties are to stay on they should stay on for everyone.

I guess it depends on how you look at the divisions. If you look at D1 as Grand Am and D5 as an SCCA racing school you could justify different rules for the different divisions. If you look at them as they are all the same just split up because we don't have the ability to have 44 drivers in one lobby then I see your point. In that case though why do we let D5 race with aids on? Anyways I'm not saying only D1 should have the penalties off I just feel at least D1 should have them off. If other divisions want them on I think that's ok but I think most of D1 wants them off. As far as the track boundaries that should be the same for all divisions and I never implied otherwise.

My point on the rookie thing was you said that the rules were the same for rookies and veterans in real racing and the truth is they aren't.

 

[OwensRacing]

Here is exactly why the penalty system is unfair and completely and utterly stupid.

Notice the three bumps. This will show you how far down the track I was and got penalized for following the OLR. Video of the games sloppy penalty systems.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/...F7BE11-22971-00000DA0D0576792_zps5f9cda87.mp4

For those that say well we know where they are. No "we" don't. I race in series where this penalty system isn't used. This is the only place Im involved that uses the damn training wheels.

 

[Worst_Driver]

It's just a flawed system IMO on most tracks, even when you cut by pure mistake (missed the braking point for example) and you don't gain an advantage, you get penalised over that.

 

[hillracing]

It's just a flawed system IMO on most tracks, even when you cut by pure mistake (missed the braking point for example) and you don't gain an advantage, you get penalised over that.

That's the worst. I remember the first time I got the penalty at Fuji in turn one. It was in a SPEC race after my last pit stop I came out on cold tires and broke a little late and went wide on exit only to get a penalty. I was like WTF I didn't gain anything from going wide there.

 

[Luv2Coach]

D1 could drop penalty and add heavy damage!

I think Heavy damage is a great idea for D3-D1. At least D2 anyway. Contact in D2 is very minimal and unlikely any damage other than driver error crashing into a wall like I did. Darn cold tires get me sometimes.

 

[Luv2Coach]

That's the worst. I remember the first time I got the penalty at Fuji in turn one. It was in a SPEC race after my last pit stop I came out on cold tires and broke a little late and went wide on exit only to get a penalty. I was like WTF I didn't gain anything from going wide there.

I don't get that either. Why they did that I'll never know. Why compound a mistake we make?

 

[the2armedmen]

I am 100% against heavy damage, anything else I'm down for, heavy damage noooooo

 

[Apmaddock]

Yeah. That won't be happening. I can pretty much guarantee it.

 

[Luv2Coach]

I am 100% against heavy damage, anything else I'm down for, heavy damage noooooo

No worries 2armed. It ain't gonna happen.