10/20/2007 Demo

  • Thread starter M5_dude
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The incockpit cam moves to simulate braking and other things, but I'm hoping you don't want the cockpit to shake as much as rFactor :nervous:

rFactor cockpit shake example:



I agree with this 100%. Hopefully with time they can increase the realism of this. I think we'll all agree the Mulsanne straight in GT4 wouldn't be the same if it was super smooth like this demo's Suzuka track and the video preview of Daytona. Hopefully PD will fix this.



Well if they tried to block you or cut you off people will then be claiming the AI is stupid. Also I wouldn't use this demo as an indicator to how tough the competition will be in GT5, I think it's obvious they made it easy so it would be more user friendly. You don't want to scare away potential customers by making the demo ultra hard


While I am not saying GT should mimic the level of shakyness of a RFactor F1 mod, but in order to convey the level of realism if any game is going to provide a cockpit view, the developer should also factor in head movement to the first person view to simulate g-forces acting on the driver's head. In the absence of having g-forces applying to the player, this is critical for any serious sims as it can give lots of information about the car, the track in terms of stiffness in setup and condition of the circuit.

Again, having a cockpit view is one major step. Just so you know what PD did for GT5 is already by far the best ever for any console racing game, period. It is really more of a "room for improvement" vs a "complain"
 
While I am not saying GT should mimic the level of shakyness of a RFactor F1 mod, but in order to convey the level of realism if any game is going to provide a cockpit view, the developer should also factor in head movement to the first person view to simulate g-forces acting on the drier's head. In the absence of having g-forces applying to the player, this is critical for any serious sims as it can give lots of information about the car, the track in terms of stiffness in setup and condition of the circuit.
Hmmm... didn't you just say the following in the Most Realistic Tire thread???:

You can use whatever you feel like, its a game have fun with it. :)

Now I'm regretting giving you +REP for that because it doesn't sound like you meant it. :odd:


I'm off to go try and adjust the rear view mirrors and cigarette lighters in GT5:P demo...
 
i downloaded the japanese version today (u have to make an account and set ur country to japan to be able to download the game from playstationstore). first off, its orgasmic. seriously.

yes, there is in-car views, except the GT-R, cuz the interior is still not even set in stone for the real car, obviously.

i am not aware of a US version of the game, but the only thing with the japanese one is that, obviously, its in japanese, and u have no clue what naything means, although its mostly straightforward.

im not sure if u can play online (with other real ppl) with the demo, but i doubt it

anyone whos a GT fan should take the time to download the japanese version, its def worth it
 
Hmmm... didn't you just say the following in the Most Realistic Tire thread???:



Now I'm regretting giving you +REP for that because it doesn't sound like you meant it. :odd:


I'm off to go try and adjust the rear view mirrors and cigarette lighters in GT5:P demo...

Shakycam is a comment on "game feature" that I think should be there not "user preference" with existing game feature ;)
 
I think sense of speed is a bit exagerate lately with racing games. The selection of cars we currently have in the demo now are performance cars. Driving a 135i at 200+km/h should not make you nervous. I do like the new engine sound but I'm not sure if it's too loud compare to real ones. The 135i is quite noisy.

I'm away from home and unable to use the steering wheel so I am stuck with the controller. I haven't get a chance to use the controller for GT:HD so I cannot compare. But using a controller has changed big time from GT4. Back then, you turn and wheel move quickly. Now, it takes some time. So sometimes it's difficult to recover from oversteer. Also back then, it's not possible to over-turn and understeer. Now, it happens quite easily. So you need to be accurate with the steering input. I've also notice that the wheel turns inconsistently when the car starts to oversteer. I am not sure why and how. Anyone else notice this?
 
This thread is too long to read throughout (the downside of GTP's policy I assume :\ ) but I'll add my first impression here on the umpteenth page.

First of all, I have to say I'm not as impressed as I thought I'd be... here are some of my gripes (do I really need to add a disclaimer stating that this is my opinion?):

Crisp but artifact-ridden graphics, too much depth-of-field hurt my eyes a bit in the long run.

The game desperately needs deadzone calibration, the wheel is hopelessly twitchy around center position and when countersteering hard.

I can't comment on the cars themselves as I don't know the differential/setups from real life... but pro mode (second option) seemed a bit too oversteery (and arcadey, too quick front end) to me. Classic mode (first option) felt more natural, but I was completely unable to powerslide the BMW with it. Keep in mind that I'm not that used to GT4 anymore either.

Countersteer snapback is still overly harsh and severe, maybe signifying that there are still fundamental flaws within the physics. Not really improved over GT4 in this field (pro mode).

Don't get me wrong, I'm still 100% buying it... I just wasn't as blown away by it as I was hoping I'd be. The major issue for me is too much sensitivity around center, and too severe snapback with exaggerated countersteer (both related to too much front grip, and force feedback not doing enough to communicate it).

As for the sounds, I wasn't really that impressed (Forza 2 still sounds better on a 2.0 system) but then again that's not really a concern of mine. I'm still a GT fanboi at heart, so I'm hoping they'll sort out the wheel sensitivity issues before the full release.

For the record: I'm using a DFP... I'll try the DF for a comparison, if they still support the progressive rack it might actually feel better. I'm interested in drifting physics, which is why I'm most specific about wheel operation. The AI is definitely better, but one car still kept ramming my rear end in one race... I'll leave that discussion to you.
 
Hmmm... didn't you just say the following in the Most Realistic Tire thread???:



Now I'm regretting giving you +REP for that because it doesn't sound like you meant it. :odd:


I'm off to go try and adjust the rear view mirrors and cigarette lighters in GT5:P demo...

:lol: while I agree with you for the most part IMO things like the driver shifting and reverse lights coming on are simple details that make the game more immersing and I hope that by the time GT5 does role around they have realized this
 
IMO things like the driver shifting and reverse lights coming on are simple details that make the game more immersing and I hope that by the time GT5 does role around they have realized this


PD/KY has said in a interview that they are working on details like the hand movents and shifting. (I doubt they will add reverse lights though)
 
Hey guys I only read some pages of this thread, but I personally really loved the game. I downloaded the October 19th in US. My personal biggest surprise was BMW 135. Interior and shadows were of the hook :) Though still no gear shifting, but I know PD are still working on those ;) I liked the replays different camera angles, and when you press Triangle it zooms in smoothly compared to GT4. I just don't know if it is possible to unlock Lexus F and Mazda? Overall I'm really satisfied on the progress of this game. Oh and the place where I work my general manager asked me to preorder him GT5 Prologue. He said he'll pay me back, but I'll just give it to him as a gift :D (Future raise possible :D?)

P.S. Did you know if you leave this demo on in main menu and don't press anything it will start showing Daytona track, Fuji, Suzuka, and some photoshop locations.
 
I just don't know if it is possible to unlock Lexus F and Mazda? .


They will get unlocked soon when the Tokyo motor show ends or during.

P.S. Did you know if you leave this demo on in main menu and don't press anything it will start showing Daytona track, Fuji, Suzuka, and some photoshop locations.

Yep, or you can press circle and start the demonstation straight away without waiting.
 
I really like the fact that the game punishes you harshly for going onto the grass or gravel, just like in real life. This might discourage idiots from lawn mowing in the online races. I think I'd prefer racing in leagues anyway, but still, it's sweet.
 
It's strange how twitchy the steering is with a wheel controller. The brakes are seriously grabby too. I'm playing in my stocking feet, and it's really hard to get a handle on braking. I'm assuming Prologue itself is going to get a major tweak all around.

I really miss seeing my hood in roofcam view. I've been trying to get first place with the Daihatsu before I move on - WHY is this car in the game?? But I might have to resort to sports or racing tires because the little shoebox with the twitchhy controls is surprisingly a handful. I despise cockpit cam, at least with this car. I may never use it if it's going to be that nasty little narrow letterbox.

I'm spending quite a bit of time just listening to the music tracks. Forza 2's soundtrack is SO BAD I can't tolerate it for more than a few minutes, but this stuff is album quality.

I don't have any graphics issues to speak of, looks delicious to me. (edit: okay, I'm seeing some now that I'm getting used to Gran Turuismo in glorious 1080, but who seriously cares? This is a demo of a pre-release of a game coming in a year or more. Grow up or something)

The sense of speed is amazingly lacking. But I paid close attention to the way the world is slipping by, and by golly, it looks darn real. I've noticed that even at 100mph in real life, the world just passes by in my Supra almost sedately. I can watch roadside details like trash coming up almost at my leisure. I've concluded that the racing games almost universally hype their graphics to make them seem faster. I noticed people griping about this in GT4 too, and have concluded that Kazunori-dono is shooting for flat out realism in his games, and speed hype be damned.

In any case, I Have to get back to the demo. I had to go shopping for a relative's birthday present today - unsuccessfully, sadly, so I'll have to go out aqgain tomorrow. So it looks like it's going to be a long night. :D
 
Well, might as well sit here for a while and type up all my thoughts.

First off, I wish the damn thing was in English. I spent a year in Okinawa and only picked up a few symbols of kanji. None of which I remember anymore, that was a long time ago.. hehe. I know, I know.. it's a Japanese demo. :) I was expecting it to be a PITA, and it is. I don't think I'll be purchasing GT5P itself unless it's released here (although I could probably import a European copy?)

The language barrier isn't too much of a problem, since most of the menus are straightforward and just like GTHD. But the big pain for me was that I remap some of the controls, to match up with the same GT controls I've been using for ten years now. For example, in the early days, I used Automatic transmission, so I moved the shifting buttons from 2 to 1. And they stayed there, even after I switched to manual control about five years ago. Needless to say, it took me significantly longer to remap the controller this time around. And I didn't even do it completely.. I think there are still one or two lesser-used buttons that are in the wrong place. But at least I got the main controls set up.

Anyhoo... I'll start with gameplay and touch on graphics at the end. Mix things up a bit.

I wasn't sure when I started up whether I'd use the cockpit view or not, but I find myself using it on every car. Except the GT-R, of course. So that's going to take some getting used to, because now the guages aren't the same as they've been forever.. hehe.

Overall, the gameplay is pretty much the same as it's always been, so I won't prattle on about stuff that everyone already knows.

I'm not sure what to make of this new "Professional" physics style. I've only noticed two things about it so far, the largest of which is that the cars feel much more slippery than before. Higher chance of the back end breaking loose, especially since I drive without aids. The only other thing I noticed was an odd "snap-back" (for lack of a better word, although I think I'm talking about something different than Ske did up above). I was in a pickle, with the ass-end of the car flying every which way, including off the track. At one point, the front tires came back onto the track and the car literally leapt off in the direction that the front wheels were pointing (I forget which car I was driving.. probably the BMW). Since I've had this happen on my own car in real life, that sort of snap-pop thing when straightening out the car from a nasty turn, I'd call that a realistic addition. As unexpected as it was to me at the time, it was exactly what my own real-life car would have done.

All in all, I think I prefer the Classic control style, but that's probably because it's what I'm used to, through GT4 (which I still play regularly) and GTHD. I have only one win to my name so far in GT5PD (I drive "skittish" with the new physics, take far fewer chances), and I'm pretty sure that win was using the new engine, so I guess I can't complain too loudly. I have it set there now, so it's probably what I'll use from now on and see if I get the hang of it.

Now, the AI... ah, yes, the AI. Bane of GT. Number One with a Thrown Controller. I'll keep it simple. The AI has been vastly improved. VASTLY. As mentioned above, I've been driving more careful than usual, getting used to the new physics engine. Paying more attention to the racing line and car control than trying to pass every car in front of me. There have been a few collisions, yes. On average, I'd say one out of every five collisions is caused by the computer, the other four are caused by me doing something stupid. Now, alongside those five collisions are maybe fifteen to twenty incidents where the computer has left it's racing line to avoid hitting me. It's actually going to take some getting used to, because I know I'm still driving in a "stay out of the AI's way" mode of thinking from previous GTs.

A couple of examples. I went off-track twice today in the middle of a pack of cars. There were several cars coming up behind me when I got back onto the track, doing maybe 20mph (they're doing a hundred). Guess how many times I got hit coming back onto the track? Zero. I counted six cars that moved around me on those two occasions, and none of them so much as scratched my paint. That's what I call a real-world example of the "stop in the middle of the track" scenario, and in my case, the computer passed the test with flying colors on both occasions.

There have been multiple occasions where I've passed a car on the inside of a corner, and the AI car has remained on the outside. Once I even took a corner too sharp, cutting onto the grass (playing the "don't hit the AI" game from GT4, because the AI car was on the inside rumble strip). I was going too fast, and moved back onto the track halfway through the corner, and I hit nothing... the AI moved slightly to the left until he was past me (I got slowed down in the grass).

Oh, and the AI not being aggressive enough? I was driving Pro mode on N2 tires today, after reading the "Which tire?" thread (I'm going back to my S3s and to hell with "real" tires.. hehe). Anyway, I was driving very poorly as a result of the slippery car, and causing a bit of a backup of the cars behind me. If I didn't know better, I'd say the car immediately behind me was getting pissed. He kept darting to the left and right, trying desparately to get around me. Probably would have, too, if we had been driving different cars. As it was, our acceleration was identical and he just didn't have the muscle to get around me. But he looked like he definitely wanted to, and in a bad way. If he were a human driver, I would have said he was about two seconds away from ramming me just to get me the hell out of his way.

So to all of you who insist that the AI still sucks or that it hasn't changed at all... PD has made a believer out of me, and I'll continue to believe my own eyes over yours. :)

Now, I'm not saying the AI is perfect. I watch replays from other cars' POV, and it still drives kinda funky in the corners.. brake-gas-brake-brake-gas, etc. They occasionally bump into each other (and me, with my sometimes overzealous braking into a sharp corner). Overall, their behavior isn't as smooth as a human driver's would be. As far as their general driving skill, I would say it's unchanged from GT4. The only major change is that, as I mentioned above, the AI is now aware of the presence of other cars around it, especially the player car.

Now, onto the graph- HAHA FOOL YOU!!! I'm going to talk about the sound first.

Overall, I think the sound has improved. The raw sound samples appear to be coming through much stronger than in the past, and they're largely avoiding the "electric razor" sound of high RPMs. This is more prevelant with the new cars, and not so much with the recycled cars from past GTs, where they appear to be using the old samples. As such, I expect the others to be improved over time as well. The sound seems more dynamic now, a good example being the BMW. There's a clear difference between the engine sound (front speakers) and the exhaust sound (rear speakers). This is probably due partly to the new sound engine, and partly due to the fully discrete audio channels they're using now. GT4's Pro Logic decoding was good, but it's no match for full 5.1 surround.

The main flaw in the engine sounds this time around isn't so much the way it's processed, but rather what it simply doesn't have. The Ferrari appears to be the best example of this. The sound itself appears to be very accurate, but it's missing the "oomph" that the real car has under heavy acceleration. It's like listening to your surround system with the subwoofer turned off. The sound is the same, but feels incomplete. I think this is because of the way the sound samples were gathered, simply by revving the engine at a standstill as opposed to capturing the car under load. My own car does this, has a very different sound when driving than when simply revving the engine at a red light. The result is "accurate", but incomplete.. it's missing that throaty roar that the real cars have. Hopefully this is something they can fix (maybe with new samples, or some way to fudge the sound by adding some bass to it).

The overall sound balance could use some work, but that's been a gripe for a long time now. I've hit the limiter in my own car, and at speed, I can't hear the engine at all, despite the fact that it's screaming at 5000rpm. It's completely drowned out by the wind and tire noise. In GT (past and present), you don't get that. It's one thing for a racing car, where the engine is foreward the entire time, but in a standard road car, the engine just isn't that loud.

There's no crowd noise in the demo, but since the crowd itself is plainly unfinished, I'm sure this will come along later.

The tire sounds are the same as they've always been, but definitely more dynamic than they were in GT4. Individual tires make individual noises now, depending on what they're doing. This is the 5.1 surround at work, where it almost seems as though the tires are sent to individual speakers (front-left, rear-right, etc), which is an excellent way of doing it and helps immensely with the immersion aspect. That said, I think the "same old tire noise" is in desparate need of an update, but I think we all agree on that.

The wind noise has been changed, but I can't accurately describe the difference except that it now feels more organic, more "real". It's not the generic "whoosh" that it was in GT4.

The rest of my gripes is simply my own wish-list for sounds. Ambient track noise for replays. More sounds from the car itself (creaky suspension, clutch/shifter sounds, etc). Dynamic echoes during replays.

Now, the graphics.

The main problem here lies with Polyphony. And not in the way that you're thinking. It's in their marketing. All of the official videos that they've released have been "perfect" replays with full anti-aliasing, full 1920x1080, full motion-blur, full-resolution shadow maps, etc. It appears that they simply crank everything up to maximum and then capture the output frame-by-frame. But the fact is, the game engine, while capable of doing all these things, doesn't have a hope in hell of doing it at 60fps (or 30 for replays). As a result, what we get isn't what they showed us we were going to get. Frankly, I'm used to it by now.

First off, the game isn't running at "full" 1080p. I'm not sure if the news made it over here yet, but the pixel-counters on Beyond3D have confirmed the game is running at only 1280x1080 and is stretched horizontally to fill the screen, like an anamorphic DVD. In fact, this is a slightly lower resolution than GTHD was running at (1440x1080). Personally, I don't really care, I only bring it up to demonstrate a possible cause for the jaggies that some people are complaining so loudly about.

But, despite the lower resolution, I think it looks better than GTHD because of the inclusion of 2x multi-sample anti-aliasing. The result is a smoother overall look despite the lower resolution.

Now, MSAA does have a fault, and it's one that's also plagued me in the past in my CG work, so I can sympathize with PD's plight. MSAA effectively renders each pixel several times, sometimes with a slight offset, and then blends the resulting pixels together to create an average, which helps to eliminate aliased edges (jaggies). The problem comes when you use MSAA with high-dynamic-range (HDR) scene lighting. The harsh contrast between a HDR-bright hotspot and a darker "normal" area is large enough so that MSAA literally cannot make an average between them, and the aliased edge remains no matter how many samples you take of the pixels. If you look carefully at many of the "jaggy" spots in the replays and such, you'll notice that they most likely appear on something very bright.. reflective silver paint, a reflection on chrome, etc. And that bright spot is right next to something that's shaded much darker.. a dark background, black tire, dark paint, etc. That's the line that the MSAA can't work with, and so the aliasing remains. This, combined with the 1280 horizontal resolution is resulting in some jaggies that stand out among the otherwise smooth image.

As a point of interest, the menu screen, garage, and showroom are rendered at full 1920x1080, but with no AA. The result is sharper, but jaggier. Again, especially noticable on highly contrasted areas of the screen, but this is simply the result of the eye seeing a bright jaggy on a dark background instead of a dark jaggy on a dark background. The dark jaggies are still there, just not as noticable.

Another thing I noticed is that the shadow-mapping seems incomplete. This is especially noticable on the Daihatsu. Look at the shadow of the steering wheel on the dashboard.. it's fugly. Seeing as how the other cars have much better shadows, I'm assuming this is a sign of "work in progress".

Another element of the shadow mapping is the very low resolution of the shadow maps used on the other cars during a race. This appears as an odd "crawling" effect, especially noticable on the rear of cars that are 20-30 yards in front of you as you're driving. These aren't "jaggies", and some people might be confusing them as such. They're simply the shadow of the car's spoiler, rendered in a very low resolution. Far TOO low, in fact, and I desperately hope this is something that's remedied as the game progresses.

The car models... I can't say anything bad about them. Stellar in every respect. Interior, exterior, flawless. I went back and played some TDU this afternoon, and it's cars are ugly! :)

The track. I don't like the track, I'm afraid. It looks like exactly what it is.. a slightly revamped version of the GT4 track. Few more polygons here and there, some better textures here and there, but otherwise unchanged. I really think they should have gone back to square one and completely remodeled the track from scratch. And maybe they intend to do just that.. this is the very first build of GT5 we've really seen, after all. Early reports that I read indicated the first track to receive a total overhaul for PS3 was the Nürburgring. Maybe all they had time for on Suzuka was a quick update instead of a total overhaul.

Daytona looks good, but then again, it's a very simple track. White walls on one side, grass on the other. But it looks more "polished" than Suzuka, and I think that goes back to my last statement.. Daytona is a new track built specifically for GT5, and not a recylcled track from a previous game.

Speaking of grass, Suzuka does have real grass now, scattered about here and there. And yes, it does react to the cars whooshing by, which a nice touch. Attention to detail, something PD is known for.

Overall, though, I think the game looks fantastic. Even in it's early state, I think I can say with some confidence that it's the best-looking racing game on the market right now. The things that it has problems with (AA, shadow mapping), are countered by the things that it does better than the others (smoothness, 60fps, and it's exceptional HDR lighting).

I'm confident that PD will be able to work out most of the problems as the game progresses. Remember, GTHD was just an upgraded GT4... this is the very first public build of the GT5 engine, which is very much a work in progress. As such, remember that as it works it's way through production, the graphics will only get better. And they've already set themselves one hell of a jumping-off point in this early build.

All in all, I'm very glad I downloaded this demo, and I won't be getting rid of it any time soon. Unless they release an English demo that's exactly the same.. hehe. But, given that this Japanese demo is a limited release (only available for about three weeks, last I heard), I went ahead and downloaded it just in case they don't release an American demo. I'd rather have this than nothing. Now all they need to do is release Prologue itself here in the States, and I'll be a happy camper.

Cheers. :)
 
It's strange how twitchy the steering is with a wheel controller. The brakes are seriously grabby too. I'm playing in my stocking feet, and it's really hard to get a handle on braking. I'm assuming Prologue itself is going to get a major tweak all around.

I really miss seeing my hood in roofcam view. I've been trying to get first place with the Daihatsu before I move on - WHY is this car in the game?? But I might have to resort to sports or racing tires because the little shoebox with the twitchhy controls is surprisingly a handful. I despise cockpit cam, at least with this car. I may never use it if it's going to be that nasty little narrow letterbox.

I'm spending quite a bit of time just listening to the music tracks. Forza 2's soundtrack is SO BAD I can't tolerate it for more than a few minutes, but this stuff is album quality.

I don't have any graphics issues to speak of, looks delicious to me.

The sense of speed is amazingly lacking. But I paid close attention to the way the world is slipping by, and by golly, it looks darn real. I've noticed that even at 100mph in real life, the world just passes by in my Supra almost sedately. I can watch roadside details like trash coming up almost at my leisure. I've concluded that the racing games almost universally hype their graphics to make them seem faster. I noticed people griping about this in GT4 too, and have concluded that Kazunori-dono is shooting for flat out realism in his games, and speed hype be damned.

In any case, I Have to get back to the demo. I had to go shopping for a relative's birthday present today - unsuccessfully, sadly, so I'll have to go out aqgain tomorrow. So it looks like it's going to be a long night. :D

I really agree with what your saying especially with the sense of speed. I think in most other racing games it is really exaggerated and feels arcadey, but in GT games it feels more natural. When I enter a corner in GT5P demo really hot I can sense that I'm coming in too fast so the sence speed in this demo feels really good. But unlike you I really like the in-car view with the Daihatsu and all the other cars :)

I think we will all get a better idea how the new phyics engine is once we start driving some older cars that are less refined. It seems with most of the new cars, they appear to have good handling right out of the manafacture.
 
i have to disagree with the oversensitive snap back some people are posting. At first i agreed, i was disapointed after GTHD, but after ann hour or two of relearning how to drift in the BMW(f=S2, R=S1) it seem's fine. You just have to be very precise and relearn where to stop countersteering. I really like it, it gives you a greater sense of accomplishement when you nail a good drift, unlike GT-HD...
 
The sense of speed is amazingly lacking. But I paid close attention to the way the world is slipping by, and by golly, it looks darn real. I've noticed that even at 100mph in real life, the world just passes by in my Supra almost sedately. I can watch roadside details like trash coming up almost at my leisure. I've concluded that the racing games almost universally hype their graphics to make them seem faster. I noticed people griping about this in GT4 too, and have concluded that Kazunori-dono is shooting for flat out realism in his games, and speed hype be damned.
I agree as well. I heard someone complaining about it on another board, and responded by saying that I'm perfectly comfortable cruising down the freeway at 100mph+ and it doesn't really feel all that fast to me.

Part of it is like you said.. a lot of games beef up the sense of speed, sometimes to rediculous levels (Burnout). Combine that with the fact that most people never drive faster than about 80mph, and it's easy to see where people don't know what it's like to actually drive fast.

Me, I'm itching to find a nice little race track somewhere where I can zing my car around as fast and hard as I want. :) I think the local motor speedway has a road course in the infield, I'll just have to figure out who to contact to get in there. :)

That actually reminds me of something I did the other day (which is what got me pining for a real race track to play on). I took a turn way too sharp and too fast (last-second decision based on an upcoming red light) and ended up spinning the car 180 instead of only 90 to make the turn. I wasn't able to duplicate it in GTHD, but I think I'll try it in GT5PD with the new physics engine, see if I can get the back end to break loose like that. What's funny is that the people complaining about GT5PD would probably have wrecked in that situation, rather than coming to a steady controlled stop (ironically, facing the correct way, since I was now in the other lane) and then proceeding on my way. I like to think that I responded pretty well to the unexpected slide. Countersteering and all that. When I got home, I patted my car, said "good girl" and thought to myself "Man, I have GOT to find me a race track..."

GT is my outlet in the meantime. :)

Although it occurred to me that, even if they did, by some miracle, include my exact car model in GT5 (the Mazda3 has like forty-seven different trim models, it's crazy), it would have the steering wheel on the wrong side. I wonder if they'll have that feature? Choice of driving position for cars that are available like that in real life?
 
You people talking about the lacking sense of speed have no clue what you're talking about. You have to remember that this is still a video game, and thus it's 2D. So to replace the peripheral vision we have in real life, they use a wider angle of view. Thus, making the sense of speed feel slower. Like Jedi2016 mentioned, Burnout. And other games, usually use blur around the edges of the screen. As well as a motion blur along with it. Now you're focused on a lot less of the screen and it's all in the center. It's all an illusion. If anything your own sense of speed is lacking. If anything, I'd say the GT games are the most accurate compared to any other racing game out there. All the others hype up the sense of speed way too much. Thus, making them way more "arcadish." Gran Turismo is not an Arcade game. If you want your "sense of speed" back, go play Need For Speed or Burnout.
 
wow i just found something, don't know if it's been mentioned...

Got to option's then press the first controller icon. Now read down the bottom and see what your turning on and of.....RUMBLE. It say's DualShock 3(in english) down the bottom. Woohoo dualshock 3 must be coming quicker then everyone thought lol.(i know it's been officially confirmed etc).
 
wow i just found something, don't know if it's been mentioned...

Got to option's then press the first controller icon. Now read down the bottom and see what your turning on and of.....RUMBLE. It say's DualShock 3(in english) down the bottom. Woohoo dualshock 3 must be coming quicker then everyone thought lol.(i know it's been officially confirmed etc).

Nice. I was wondering that after the first rumble strip I ran over. 👍 I'll be buying a DS3 as soon as they're out.
 
Hmm the only thing I found lacking in this amazing demo is that I miss the controller vibration when going over the rumble strips :).
 
I'm starting to wonder what build of the game this is

At recent game shows the drivers would shuffle the wheel but they don't in the demo...

Also most PS3 exclusive games like Ratchet & Clank, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted Drake's Fortune and others look more clean and refined then this demo. Full PS3 blu-ray games usually weigh in at over 15,000 mbs, this demo is only 700 mbs. I'm wondering how much that has to do with the overall quality of the demo. Most demos have been 1,000+ mbs lately but this one was relatively small.

Everything about this demo screams GT5 is still a far ways off

- sense of speed is not as bad as I first thought it was
- the new professional physics are definitly tougher
- I agree with Jedi2016 about Suzuka, it does look like the GT4 Suzuka but patched up to look respectable for GT5. I also agree Daytona is far better looking but there is room for improvement. I'm going to wait for the London City track to get a good measurement of how good GT5's tracks will really look.
 
I'm starting to wonder what build of the game this is

At recent game shows the drivers would shuffle the wheel but they don't in the demo...

Also most PS3 exclusive games like Ratchet & Clank, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted Drake's Fortune and others look more clean and refined then this demo. Full PS3 blu-ray games usually weigh in at over 15,000 mbs, this demo is only 700 mbs. I'm wondering how much that has to do with the overall quality of the demo. Most demos have been 1,000+ mbs lately but this one was relatively small.

Everything about this demo screams GT5 is still a far ways off

- sense of speed is not as bad as I first thought it was
- the new professional physics are definitly tougher
- I agree with Jedi2016 about Suzuka, it does look like the GT4 Suzuka but patched up to look respectable for GT5. I also agree Daytona is far better looking but there is room for improvement. I'm going to wait for the London City track to get a good measurement of how good GT5's tracks will really look.

Hmmmmm...

Perhaps the sounds in the trailer are from the *full* Prologue, a later version? I hope so. But either way, this game is looking to be awesome. I can't wait 'till December!
 
Just to point something out here, the way I judge games is by looking at the competition. If one developer can do something why not another? So take reverse lights (not that I honestly care). Not in GT5 Prologue demo? But they're in PGR4. Why do Bizarre Creations have it and not PD?
I guess it's all to do with this belief we have that GT games have the most detail and accuracy of any racing game. The truth is that's not necessarily the case.
Should it bother anyone? Only those who take this all too seriously or look for a way to find fault in something.
Just to be clear. I've been playing PGR4 a lot recently. It's without doubt the most atmospheric racing game I've ever played. Quite a different game to Gran Turismo and I know that ultimately GT5 will give me more satisfaction. But in other respects PGR4 is the benchmark that GT5 now has to surpass. Not in physics or real-life simulation but in atmosphere, involvment and fun (belting round in the cockpit view of a Ferrari Enzo FXX on an icy, snowy Nurburgring is such joy). In some areas it already does like the lighting and car modelling. But in other areas GT5 will need to catch up. I hope it does and I'm looking forward to the result. But this doesn't mean I will let up on any criticism of the game if it doesn't meet my expectations. And these expectations are based on experiances I've had with other games, not some fanciful wish-fulfillment. To be king GT5 needs to make good on its potential.
 
One thing that's annoying me is that the cars look so narrow. It looks more like a 4:3 image on a 16:9 panel.
Anyone has the same problem?


Digital-Nitrate is right about the sound. If you play with a 7.1 sourround system, you can actually -hear- the position of the cars. It's much better than GT4 but there's still room for improvement.
 
Personally, my expectations of the game is for PD to improve GT5 over previous GTs in every aspect of the game. So far, from what I've seen in this demo they've done that. AI is better, physics are better, sound is better, graphics are better. How much better is debateable but there is no doubt they have been improved. They've improved everything over GT4 and added new touches like 16 car fields, online racing and cockpit view.

I don't give a rat's you know what about how GT stacks up against other racing games. You'll never catch me saying "I wish GT had 55 car fields like rFactor" or "I wish GT had damage like TOCA" because doing so is pointless. To this day I wonder why guys like Kamus come here and go about trashing GT5's AI and physics as pathetic because it doesn't match Race07's AI and physics. For everything another racing game does better than GT5 I'm sure you could find something GT5 does better. We own multiple racing games because there is no one perfect racing game
 
After playing the Demo, I have to say that PD has a lot of work cut out for them for the final GT5 game if they want to take their crown back from Turn10 as the king of console racing simulator.


GT5: Prologue good and bad...


Good:
-Car looks very nice but still lots of room for improvement.
-Physics seems to be better than GT4 and GT:HD
-Uhhhhh...

Bad:
-AI still needs to be improved. I'll take 8-10 cars on the track with GREAT AIs over 16 cars on the track with 15 piloted by mentally challenged AIs.
-AI cars still feels like they weigh 10 tons. I was seriously doing a pit manuever on this AI car and it would not budge at all!!!
-Car sounds are horrible! Just horrible! Same with the same tire sound that they've used since GT2.
-Track details are lacking greatly and hopefully will be improved for the final game.
-Not a very good sense of speed while driving and even worse when watching the replays. Cars look like they're moving very slowly and just doesn't seem very exciting.
-Framerate drops when more than 5 cars on the screen closed together. I thought it was just me until I tried slowing down and letting a pack of cars pass me and speed up to get close to them and BAM, framerate drops. :(
-Bumper cars, anyone?:lol:


I KNOW that this is only a Demo of a Demo for the final GT5 but they really need to step things up a lot in order to make the final game great. I was testing out some things with the AI and I was getting rammed left and right still. Very rarely did I get a realistic reaction from the AI with what I was doing.

What PD really needs to do is drop resolution from 1080P to 720P and add more track details and more AA. They will also need to improve the engine/tires/crash sounds greatly because it still sounds like GT4 and GT:HD to me. Driving the BMW 135i almost made me cry when I heard what it sounded like. :( Seriously, producing the game in 1080P is NOT setting the bar higher. I, for one, do not care if it's in 1080P or 720P because that's not important in any game. What's important is overall gameplay and immersiveness.

Better engine/tires/crash sounds and vastly detailed tracks will be more immersive in 720P than the things I'm seeing right now in 1080P. I'm just happy they added some blur to the spinning wheels.:lol: Final words? If this is a taste of what's to come, I'll pass. :)







PS: This is my opinion and mine only. I'm sure some of you will disagree but I just had to state my opinion of my thoughts on the Demo since everyone is sharing their thoughts on it.
 
Personally, my expectations of the game is for PD to improve GT5 over previous GTs in every aspect of the game. So far, from what I've seen in this demo they've done that. AI is better, physics are better, sound is better, graphics are better. How much better is debateable but there is no doubt they have been improved. They've improved everything over GT4 and added new touches like 16 car fields, online racing and cockpit view.

I don't give a rat's you know what about how GT stacks up against other racing games. You'll never catch me saying "I wish GT had 55 car fields like rFactor" or "I wish GT had damage like TOCA" because doing so is pointless. To this day I wonder why guys like Kamus come here and go about trashing GT5's AI and physics as pathetic because it doesn't match Race07's AI and physics. For everything another racing game does better than GT5 I'm sure you could find something GT5 does better. We own multiple racing games because there is no one perfect racing game



Yeah, lets just cover up the defects in evrything and just point out the nice things!
While we're at it lets just rate GT5 with 10's across the board, like all those halo 3 reviewers that were SO objective scoring their reviews!
(nevermind all the defects they point out about the game, they'll still give it a 10!)
I have a lot of things in my mind about GT5, some good some bad.
If my opinion offends you for some bizzare reason, i really could care less. Because that's not the point.
I don't care about other peoples sensibilities if what i'm saying is true or at least think to be true. (hey, i'm open to being proven wrong here, like evry rational person.)

You can ignore my observations if you want, even if they happen to be true. And i think they are.
But if you think i'm wrong, you are welcome to discuss why you think i am wrong, if you just want to read one side of the story where you don't get to see other people's opinions you should probably avoid forums, they are for discussing among other things.

Physics are better?
Yes. But compared to what? GT4? then yes, definitly. However, EPR which is a measly PS2 game still has it beat though, and i wanted to point that out. I really don't care if people are offended by this it's not the point, and i'm not telling you to just forget about GT5 and go buy EPR because it's better, EPR doesn't even offer a quarter of the content that GT4 does and that's just one of it's problems. (the main one is that sadly the game was a marketing failure, and we probably won't ever see a sequel.)

Sounds are better? Not really... i don't see any improvements that are obvious to me, but maybe you can take the time to explain to me why you think they are better since you seem so sure of it.
They still seem use the same methods for producing their sounds, and no i take no shame in comparing it with older games that got the sound right (or the physics for that matter.) There's nothing wrong with wanting them to be at least comparable to those games, afterall the goal here is realisim.

Graphics are better? Yes, this IS PD's specialty, and it never fails to impress in this department, i wish they would've done things a little different in some areas, but overall i'm very pleased that at least ONE PS3 developer is taking up on the task of squeezing evrything they can from the Cell.
The sheer amount of polygons at the same time is amazing.

I really don't see what the big deal is with expressing opinions on something you invest lots of your time on, weather it's positive or negative comments.

You say you don't give a rat's something how i compare it to other games and that's fine, because guess what? you're not that special. i'm not doing it for you, i don't need your "seal of aproval" to speak out.

Pointless to talk about it? whatever, i'm having fun.
 

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