10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P

  • Thread starter Biggles
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Juice476
Honestly if you are going to say that then what is the point of using a wheel in a video game? To be honest I dont know how you play racing games at all. (etc.etc.etc.)
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Wow.. the guy says the clutch reacts like switch, and its enough to get such a response?
The only reason this thread cold have even survived at all is because intelligent people are able to view strengths and weaknesses specifically and openmindedly. And here YOU are, using one speciific shortcoming of how the clutch is 'simulated' and turn it into an all out assault on this other guys ability to enjoy using a steering wheel or racing games in general.

FYI using your imagination to immerse in a game does not require that you turn into a bootlicking slave of that experience. Unless you want to be a bootlicking slave, in which case yeah, maybe its best to attack anyone who points out the obvious.
 
Kneedragger
Wow.. the guy says the clutch reacts like switch, and its enough to get such a response?
The only reason this thread cold have even survived at all is because intelligent people are able to view strengths and weaknesses specifically and openmindedly. And here YOU are, using one speciific shortcoming of how the clutch is 'simulated' and turn it into an all out assault on this other guys ability to enjoy using a steering wheel or racing games in general.

FYI using your imagination to immerse in a game does not require that you turn into a bootlicking slave of that experience. Unless you want to be a bootlicking slave, in which case yeah, maybe its best to attack anyone who points out the obvious.
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The OP posted the pro's and con's of FC when campairing it to GT5P. To be fair no clutch support is a con and should be listed as such. I didnt say the games sucked or nobody should buy it, I simply said to me and many others it is a "CON".

The problem that I had with Mad Matt is he is contradicting himself. He says he doesnt see the point of a clutch and shifter because its not like a real one, So its not that big of deal if the game doesnt take advantage of it. My point is that the steering wheel "he" use's for racing game's isnt like a real one, The gas and brake pedal arnt like a real one, And if "you" use a controller thats 100% not like a real one.

So how can you stand there and say you dont get the point of it because its not like a real one? When nothing on the market not even the $1200 ones are like a real one.

I think if you went back and read the posts between me and Mad Matt you would have a better understanding of my point.

And FYI at no time did I say that if you dont use a clutch and H shifter you cant enjoy the game. To him its not important and thats perfectly fine, To me and many others it is, And technically based on the OP's post and how he compaired the two games I would have to stick by what I said, And say that no clutch support is a "con".
 
So I went back through the thread. Matt says he didnt see the point of using clutch since it reacts like a switch. And others said if you cant feel the take-up and 'bite' of the clutch then it defeats the purpose of using it.

Point: theres a difference between a not-so-real clutch-- and steering inputs, with a wheel. Steering with a wheel is pretty realistic!

What you have done is to say they are both equally unrealistic, and thats not the case. Steering inputs with a wheel can be very very realistic. A clutch that works like a switch can never come close to that level of realism. You are saying that ANY controller is basically fake, but thats too easy of an answer. You arent allowing that steering inputs can be pretty life like, and gas and brake inputs can be pretty life like.
The difference between that level and a clutch that is basically just a switch, is a lot. Partly because using a real clutch can be so technical. Theres lots of ways to exploit the bite point.
 
theres a difference between a not-so-real clutch-- and steering inputs, with a wheel. Steering with a wheel is pretty realistic!
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Well put. I don't think this clutch issue is really that relevant to this thread - should be in a G25 clutch thread somewhere.

I concede that no clutch in FC is a (minor) con. As a G25 user myself, I was excited about the clutch option in GT5P, but I stopped using the clutch after a couple of weeks, because I found it too difficult to use & not that satisfying because of the lack of feel. I have a strong suspicion that most other G25 users do not use the clutch, particularly when racing competitively online.

One other Pro that I have not mentioned is damage. Yeah, I know the "damage" in FC is pretty pathetic - there's not a chance that KY would ever implement something so half-assed for the GT series - only cosmetic, & worse looking than in Forza 2. BUT personally, I still prefer that to NO damage. There's something weird about smacking into a barrier & bouncing off without a scratch. By the end of a race in FC the car actually looks like it has been in a race, not sitting around on a showroom floor.
 
So what you want is a FF clutch with a game that has progressive clutch coding? And a FF gear stick that works with the the FF clutch witch also has coding? Good luck.

I dont know of any game that doesnt have a "switch clutch". I know in alot of pc games you can set up when you want the clutch to "kick in" so you are pushing the pedal down further then you do in GT5P witch I agree needs to be adressed, But what you want doesnt exist and would be very expensive if it did.

So yeah if you want to complain about the "not so real clutch" then I think you can complain about the "not so real anything". I would rather have a switch clutch that does somthing and at least gets you more involved, then nothing.

I mean at a certin point you have to be realistic about how real you are going to be able to get. The funny thing is if they did make a "realistic clutch" and a "realistic gear shifter" most of use wouldnt buy it because it would cost so much.

Biggles
Well put. I don't think this clutch issue is really that relevant to this thread - should be in a G25 clutch thread somewhere.

I concede that no clutch in FC is a (minor) con. As a G25 user myself, I was excited about the clutch option in GT5P, but I stopped using the clutch after a couple of weeks, because I found it too difficult to use & not that satisfying because of the lack of feel. I have a strong suspicion that most other G25 users do not use the clutch, particularly when racing competitively online.

One other Pro that I have not mentioned is damage. Yeah, I know the "damage" in FC is pretty pathetic - there's not a chance that KY would ever implement something so half-assed for the GT series - only cosmetic, & worse looking than in Forza 2. BUT personally, I still prefer that to NO damage. There's something weird about smacking into a barrier & bouncing off without a scratch. By the end of a race in FC the car actually looks like it has been in a race, not sitting around on a showroom floor.
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Yeah but you can apply the "not so real clutch" to the "not so real damage" argument as well. At the end of the day is the damage realistic? No. But at least is somthing at least its there.

BTW, I use the clutch all the time and it is admitedly slower on the downshifts, But I will say its alot more fun and satisfying. In a fair world you would have to make sure everyone is using it, Because you just cant beat the speed and non human error as the sequential or paddles.
 
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Biggles
One other Pro that I have not mentioned is damage. Yeah, I know the "damage" in FC is pretty pathetic - there's not a chance that KY would ever implement something so half-assed for the GT series - only cosmetic, & worse looking than in Forza 2. BUT personally, I still prefer that to NO damage. There's something weird about smacking into a barrier & bouncing off without a scratch. By the end of a race in FC the car actually looks like it has been in a race, not sitting around on a showroom floor.
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As much as i love FC, i disagree with this. The damage is hardly worth mentioning, i turned it off after i saw the extent of the damage system. As far as i'm concerned, FC has as much of a damage system as GT5P.
 
The damage is hardly worth mentioning
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That's why I didn't originally mention it. ;) But, I still prefer it to no damage.

Juice: I would give up on this clutch thing. You're right, it is better to have a clutch option available, even if it's not "realistic". I do use the H-shifter, even though that's not very realistic either & is slower (harder) than just using the sequential shifter or paddles. I also always drive with all assists off in GT5P, F1CE & FC, even though it may make me slower. I just choose what feels right for me - others may feel differently.
 
lion-face
As much as i love FC, i disagree with this. The damage is hardly worth mentioning, i turned it off after i saw the extent of the damage system. As far as i'm concerned, FC has as much of a damage system as GT5P.
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I disagree, to a certain extent. I have crashed seriously a few times in FC. After a few bad crashes, you will start to feel the effect that the damage is having on the car, if you continue the race after crashing. Staight line stibility, cornering speeds, braking distances and even brakes pulling to one side. Then it is amusing to watch the replay, it shows your car banged up, pieces missing, and always dirty after a race.
I have experienced the damage mainly because in FC, if you crash, you can get back into the race and have a reasonable chance of catching up, in single player mode against the AI. ( if not damged TOO much ). In GT5P, if you go off road, or spin, the race is pretty much over for you.
 
I don't want to drag this thread too far off course but I feel Juice476's first response to my post was a little harsh, suggesting I was talking out of my backside. I should point out that I've been driving real manual cars since before he was born and playing racing games before that. On the other hand perhaps I should have gone into more detail about my reasoning.

Anyway, that aside.......

I bought a wheel in the 90s, but before force feedback. I used it for a few weeks but found that it was so far divorced form the real world experience that it actually detracted from the game, so I stopped using it. Eventually a friend persuaded me to try his wheel with force feedback. What a difference that made! Of course it's not real, but for me it added enough to add to the experience and make the game more enjoyable. I'm particularly interested in Biggles comments about the force feedback in Ferrari Challenge as there seems the possibility that they've taken a step forward, plus I love Spa and the idea of feeling the weight transfer driving through Les Combes sounds mouth watering.

My point, as far as the clutch goes, is that, like my first wheel, I don't think it adds anything to the experience for me as it's so unrealistic. One of the things that you notice a lot driving different cars is the difference of feel in the clutch and gearbox. Yes, I know that getting that in a game is probably a long way away, or very expensive but it doesn't make the current solution any better.

So, for me, the absence of a clutch in Ferrari Challenge is irrelevant as current affordable implementations are so far divorced from reality as to detract from the game play. However, I have now learnt that there is a least one person who feels it adds to the game, so for anyone reading this thread, if the clutch is important to you, beware!
 
Hun200kmh
That's what I think also, I have never experienced mechanical damage in FC, even after a few very severe shunts.
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Ya, I don't think there is mechanical damage. I've lost the hood of my car once after two head on collisions (same spot on the track, you'd think that I'd learn), but there was no change in how the car functioned. It just look funny without the hood.
 
VentureDenny: I think it's a phantom-effect! :sly:

I gave GT5P a try after about 3 weeks of FC & this is what I noticed (after being impressed again by how amazingly realistic the visuals are):

The cars have a tendency to understeer all the time. They don't just understeer going into a corner, they understeer coming out of a corner, they understeer if you step on the gas too hard - they always threaten to understeer. You never get a feel that the cars wheels are actually tracking on the road. At first, I was all over the place in my Tuned Elise, then, after a couple of laps I got into the feel of balancing the car again & it felt good.

In FC, you can always feel the tires tracking, you can feel how much throttle you can give the car - you feel the weight of the car shifting & the tires start to give up grip. In GT5P you have to learn where the balance of the car is, on FC you can feel it. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between the physics IMO.

However, I do think that GT5P models more information & in that sense is more "realistic". I would like to see, in the new Eutechnyx game a more demanding "Pro" mode, that makes it more difficult to balance the cars & riskier to push really hard.
 
Hm, did you drive in standard mode? Because when i drive a RWD car in Prologue the rear always tries to break out. lol
I actually found exactly that not so great in Ferrari Challenge.
The breaking was cool, but i found the oversteering hard to predict and the automatic steering in the opposite direction (dont know the proper english word for it) was also annoying.


Im a pad driver btw.^^
 
Biggles
The cars have a tendency to understeer all the time. They don't just understeer going into a corner, they understeer coming out of a corner, they understeer if you step on the gas too hard - they always threaten to understeer. You never get a feel that the cars wheels are actually tracking on the road.
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Yesterday I had a super-moto (real life motorcycle) racing friend of mine try gt5p for the first time ever. What you describe above was exaclty what I tried to educate him about driving it.. though my description was not as precise and also filled with mocking epithets.
Your last sentence says so much. The more I think about it, its the single most hated thing in gt5p for me. The reason you cant get the tires to track is because trying to do so makes you really slow. And I mean abnormally slow. Ive never done a leaderboard lap that didnt have massive push in it.
And this goes back to (even) the low speed characteristics, which I wont bring up again.

You did a good job with this thread Biggles.
 
I don't get this understeering effect in slower cars like the RX-7, NSX at stock. This effect only occurs when I up the horse power to say 450HP + cars like the Corvette which I think would be true to life as no one is going to lead foot a Corvette and not expect some understeering and loss of traction. :)

Kneedragger
Yesterday I had a super-moto (real life motorcycle) racing friend of mine try gt5p for the first time ever. What you describe above was exaclty what I tried to educate him about driving it.. though my description was not as precise and also filled with mocking epithets.
Your last sentence says so much. The more I think about it, its the single most hated thing in gt5p for me. The reason you cant get the tires to track is because trying to do so makes you really slow. And I mean abnormally slow. Ive never done a leaderboard lap that didnt have massive push in it.
And this goes back to (even) the low speed characteristics, which I wont bring up again.

You did a good job with this thread Biggles.
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Mad Matt
Would you care to elaborate Steve? If there's one thing, apart from alcohol, the Irish are famous for it's talking :-)
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Well for one the fact that I only race the Ferrari F430 most of the time is one element that bores the hell out of me , the handling of the cars is rubbish and the sounds arent that good. Also the graphics are a bit crappy too.
 
Hm, did you drive in standard mode? Because when i drive a RWD car in Prologue the rear always tries to break out. lol
I actually found exactly that not so great in Ferrari Challenge.
The breaking was cool, but i found the oversteering hard to predict and the automatic steering in the opposite direction (dont know the proper english word for it) was also annoying.


Im a pad driver btw.^^
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I have always driven only in Pro mode. I'm not saying that the cars in GT5P don't oversteer also - they do - that's one of the big improvements over the physics in GT4. Having spent a lot of time in GT5P I became perfectly comfortable with the physics & FC felt a bit strange at first. It took a long time before I began to appreciate that everything I did in FC - all the steering & throttle & brake inputs - had a definite & precise effect on my lap times.

After many hours with FC going back to GT5P you really notice the tendency to understeer in GT5P. As I have never raced on a track IRL I don't feel qualified to state for sure whether GT5P or FC is more true to RL, but it does feel to me like FC is a little closer to the way a car IRL actually behaves (even if it is somewhat over-simplified in FC). I had an incident last night where I lost control of my car in FC for a second & had to fight the wheel & countersteer to regain control. The sense of snap-back from the FFB was amazingly real feeling. You just don't get that feeling with GT5P's FFB.

Can't comment on pad driving - I'm completely hopeless with a pad...
 
Well for one the fact that I only race the Ferrari F430 most of the time is one element that bores the hell out of me , the handling of the cars is rubbish and the sounds arent that good. Also the graphics are a bit crappy too.
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Hmm... why don't you try some of the other cars? 💡

Honestly, it sounds to me like you haven't spent much time getting to know FC.
 
i have both games and fc is a more rounded game then gt5p but gt4p is only a demo but i have got a game loads more better then both of them and it is RFACTOR by far the best racing game there is
 
P3DGpitstop25
i have both games and fc is a more rounded game then gt5p but gt4p is only a demo but i have got a game loads more better then both of them and it is RFACTOR by far the best racing game there is
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You on punctuation rations or something? :sly:

Rfactor and games of its ilk are largely irrelevant to this discussion.
 
Just saw this review, its part 1 but I can't find part 2 anywhere, I guess it wasn't uploaded yet.

It's an overly enthusiastic review (the guy still talks about 50 cars and it seems to me that he forgives the over-agressiveness of the AI cars) but the video itself is nice. Play it in HD if interested.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sHEkcmD3mh4
 
I have just heard that there will be a FC2 which will have Aston Martin and a whole range of other vehicles in the game that will be exclusive to PS3 only, which is what they said for FC but then it went to the PS2 after so much demand.

With the thought of other manufacturers in FC it will make it a much better game but not as good as GT5P. consindering that GT5P P for prologue which only makes it a taster for things to come so why compare in the first place. Because if you remember with the other gt games when my brother's and i played two player we would try to knock each other off the track when it was a really close race and the slightest touch would send us off the track instantly, but with the physics involed back then it was easy to get back on track and make a stunning comeback.

I just cant understand why there are always comparisons with other race games compared to GT, just know that the other games can be fun to play but are initially arcade racers to me.. GT has always been about it being a REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR and nothing else but i do agree as time has moved on we do need a lot more to make it a game that no one can compare any other to.
 
It's called Super Car Challenge not FC2. You can read about it in the Ferrari Challenge forum in this site.
 

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