2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery
- Thread starter emad
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forza2.0
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- And they look better
- Cheaper too
its like when subaru took a apparent stock impreza around the 'ring in under 8 mins or last time round when nissan said they took the R33 round the ring in under 8 mins. No one else managed such a time or anywhere near the time they supposedly did. I think it will be the same this time round, if the GTR does indeed weigh around 1700kg with "only" 480ps.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
I think there are three parties that can make a major difference in the time achieved...
1) The Driver- Some drivers just aren't as experienced as other when it comes to the Ring. This could be the case for factory drivers who don't have a spot on the Ring year-round.
2) The Testing Party- This is a refference to the group organizing the test run. Ignoring the possibility of bias, there is still a possibility that some groups may be able to take a different approach from others. For example, one company may not be able to properly fund a trip to the Ring and in-turn the car could end up with only one or two laps of testing. On the other hand, some companies (like a magazine publisher already located in Germany) could get more oppurtunities to run laps at the Ring. More laps may mean a lower time and so companies from places like America and Japan might not get the same chances as some companies from europe (or companies with deeper pockets).
3) The Manufacturer- Take the first two into consideration and then consider the possibility that companies like AutoCar might not have ties to the manufacturers in the same way Best Motoring does.
What I mean to say is...
Best Motoring very well may get an under-the-table go-ahead on trashing a car, risking it all, and getting a very impressive lap time. However, when say... Honda gives their NSX-R to AutoCar they might not say "go ahead and do whatever it takes to get below 8 minutes." Rather, they might say, do your best but be sure to get the car back to us in one piece... That sort of trust and carelessness can change lap times dramatically. With that in mind, I really feel that a manufacturer supplied car and driver can obtain better times than a magazine driver. Further, I feel that among magazine drivers the European and American drivers might not be granted the leniency that is granted to a company like Best motoring (when testing cars from Japanese manufacturers). (a good example of this could be the McLaren F1's underwhelming time despite being an amazingly fast car)
Does any of that make sense or am I doing a poor job of explaining my thoughts?
In any case, there's no telling just how awesome the GT-R will be... In the end we will all just have to wait and watch for the fireworks. 👍
1) The Driver- Some drivers just aren't as experienced as other when it comes to the Ring. This could be the case for factory drivers who don't have a spot on the Ring year-round.
2) The Testing Party- This is a refference to the group organizing the test run. Ignoring the possibility of bias, there is still a possibility that some groups may be able to take a different approach from others. For example, one company may not be able to properly fund a trip to the Ring and in-turn the car could end up with only one or two laps of testing. On the other hand, some companies (like a magazine publisher already located in Germany) could get more oppurtunities to run laps at the Ring. More laps may mean a lower time and so companies from places like America and Japan might not get the same chances as some companies from europe (or companies with deeper pockets).
3) The Manufacturer- Take the first two into consideration and then consider the possibility that companies like AutoCar might not have ties to the manufacturers in the same way Best Motoring does.
What I mean to say is...
Best Motoring very well may get an under-the-table go-ahead on trashing a car, risking it all, and getting a very impressive lap time. However, when say... Honda gives their NSX-R to AutoCar they might not say "go ahead and do whatever it takes to get below 8 minutes." Rather, they might say, do your best but be sure to get the car back to us in one piece... That sort of trust and carelessness can change lap times dramatically. With that in mind, I really feel that a manufacturer supplied car and driver can obtain better times than a magazine driver. Further, I feel that among magazine drivers the European and American drivers might not be granted the leniency that is granted to a company like Best motoring (when testing cars from Japanese manufacturers). (a good example of this could be the McLaren F1's underwhelming time despite being an amazingly fast car)
Does any of that make sense or am I doing a poor job of explaining my thoughts?
In any case, there's no telling just how awesome the GT-R will be... In the end we will all just have to wait and watch for the fireworks. 👍
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
I understand what you mean... There really aren't set guidelines to control these performance claims on the Ring, which causes problems in the debates as to who is faster and who is not. This is why American Car Magazines (Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile, etc) always set some pretty strict standards in their track tests; Full tanks of 91-octane fuel, street-legal tires, exhaust sound levels less than 91db, etc in order to make performance "even" and what would be "legal" on US roads.
There is too the difference in each driver as well. Most American magazines usually have one or two drivers who do the hot lapping of each car, really most test cars in general, which in theory balances out the equation as well. Problem is, they often don't get in enough time to fine-tune their driving, so lap times may/may not be representative of the actual performance of the car.
===
My guess is that we would need something like a cross between the US Magazine standards and something like the Stig with ample time to know a car and a given track. I'm personally under the assumption that in many cases lap times would fall dramatically as compared to manufacturer claims of performance, particularly on the subject of tires and driver quality and their overall effect by laps end.
There is too the difference in each driver as well. Most American magazines usually have one or two drivers who do the hot lapping of each car, really most test cars in general, which in theory balances out the equation as well. Problem is, they often don't get in enough time to fine-tune their driving, so lap times may/may not be representative of the actual performance of the car.
===
My guess is that we would need something like a cross between the US Magazine standards and something like the Stig with ample time to know a car and a given track. I'm personally under the assumption that in many cases lap times would fall dramatically as compared to manufacturer claims of performance, particularly on the subject of tires and driver quality and their overall effect by laps end.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Indeed, and to further that evening-out of standards I'd like to see a standing MotorTrend, Car and Driver, or Automobile operation at the Ring. Fact of the matter is that even an experienced racer will not be able to lap the Ring as quickly as an experienced racer who is well educated on the ins-and-outs of the Nurburgring.
I've suspected this problem existed before now... Best Motoring reviewed the "New" Sti a year or so back and presented a segment on the Ring (the video is availible on the net). When they did it they also presented some lap times from other cars...
8'22 Skyline GT-R R32
8'16 NSX '90
8'06 911 Turbo '91
8'03 NSX-R '92
7'56 NSX-R '02
(the Sti Spec C tested in the video managed an 8'06)
Looking at those times in the video I though it was strange to see the NSX-R from '92 beat the Turbo 911 from only one year earlier by three seconds. After noticing that I wondered if the guys at Best Motoring might be pushing harder in the Japanese cars. Not really sure and I'm not saying that IS the case, I'm just saying it has crossed my mind.
I've suspected this problem existed before now... Best Motoring reviewed the "New" Sti a year or so back and presented a segment on the Ring (the video is availible on the net). When they did it they also presented some lap times from other cars...
8'22 Skyline GT-R R32
8'16 NSX '90
8'06 911 Turbo '91
8'03 NSX-R '92
7'56 NSX-R '02
(the Sti Spec C tested in the video managed an 8'06)
Looking at those times in the video I though it was strange to see the NSX-R from '92 beat the Turbo 911 from only one year earlier by three seconds. After noticing that I wondered if the guys at Best Motoring might be pushing harder in the Japanese cars. Not really sure and I'm not saying that IS the case, I'm just saying it has crossed my mind.
peeweegary
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lolllls and find the other part in a scrap yard -_-"
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Looking at those times in the video I though it was strange to see the NSX-R from '92 beat the Turbo 911 from only one year earlier by three seconds. After noticing that I wondered if the guys at Best Motoring might be pushing harder in the Japanese cars. Not really sure and I'm not saying that IS the case, I'm just saying it has crossed my mind.
Perhaps they are more comfortable in Right-side drive cars.
- 5,987
It actually looks a lot like your Moderator Control Panel now that I think about it...
peeweegary
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- 1,030
- GTP_peeweegary, peeweegary
well looks like the gt-r lapped the ring in 7:38. Theres also a video to provide proof.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/25/video-nissan-gt-r-laps-the-nurburgring-in-7-38/
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/25/video-nissan-gt-r-laps-the-nurburgring-in-7-38/
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Although there certainly is video proof of the GT-R lapping the ring at these extraordinary rates, I'm still slightly skeptical. There is no mention of which trim-level model it is, and while tires appear to be stock, I would be curious to see if they what is offered stock. Its still a wonderful lap time, one that I'm sure Chevrolet and Dodge engineers would be happy to tackle with their updated machines... Furthermore, Porsche with the GT2.
I was reading an interesting column on the GT-R today which asked the question "Will the GT-R matter when it debuts in the US?" The question seemed a bit unfair at first, but he often speaks of this subject with a wide range of vehicles (the Camaro and Challenger have had similar fates), so I take it with a grain of salt on average. But what he was saying did make sense; With all of this fanfare on Magazine Covers and headlines on Websites, people tend to forget that we won't see the GT-R in the United States until Summer 2008, his assertion being that with quite a few more updated versions of other cars in the segments coming, that it won't mean as much when it gets here.
He has a point, but I don't think hes completely right either. Oh well, people probably have them bought-up on the initial run for 2008, but after that, we'll see...
I was reading an interesting column on the GT-R today which asked the question "Will the GT-R matter when it debuts in the US?" The question seemed a bit unfair at first, but he often speaks of this subject with a wide range of vehicles (the Camaro and Challenger have had similar fates), so I take it with a grain of salt on average. But what he was saying did make sense; With all of this fanfare on Magazine Covers and headlines on Websites, people tend to forget that we won't see the GT-R in the United States until Summer 2008, his assertion being that with quite a few more updated versions of other cars in the segments coming, that it won't mean as much when it gets here.
He has a point, but I don't think hes completely right either. Oh well, people probably have them bought-up on the initial run for 2008, but after that, we'll see...
- 5,987
The target buyer of the GT-R isn't interested in those other cars though. Keep in mind that we haven't really ever seen anything like the GT-R in America before. These numbers have never been thrown around with Japanese cars, so I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan steals a whole lot of sales from Porsche and other potential cars like the Corvette.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Its what I was thinking... The hardcore fan base of the GT-R will likely keep it popular for a while, but this is coming from a guy who seems to think the Camaro will lose steam because GM isn't moving fast enough. Right...
Although, stealing sales from the 911 and the Corvette? Its hard to say. Chevrolet still has a very easy time selling every single Corvette they make every year, and with Porsche its much the same with the 911. Given that the GT-R splits the two in price difference (actually, should be close to an SRT-10), it will be interesting to see what happened. People said the same of the NSX more than a decade ago, but thats obviously a different story...
I still think some people will have issues with it being an $80K Nissan, but its hard to say. I just want to sit in it, God forbid have the opportunity to drive it (both of my buddies at the Nissan/Mitsubishi/VW dealer retired), and get a good feel for how good of a car it (presumably) is.
Although, stealing sales from the 911 and the Corvette? Its hard to say. Chevrolet still has a very easy time selling every single Corvette they make every year, and with Porsche its much the same with the 911. Given that the GT-R splits the two in price difference (actually, should be close to an SRT-10), it will be interesting to see what happened. People said the same of the NSX more than a decade ago, but thats obviously a different story...
I still think some people will have issues with it being an $80K Nissan, but its hard to say. I just want to sit in it, God forbid have the opportunity to drive it (both of my buddies at the Nissan/Mitsubishi/VW dealer retired), and get a good feel for how good of a car it (presumably) is.
Blackbird.
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It doesn't seem like they're compressed?
Oh, right. Duh. I thought it looked funny though.
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I can't see the tread because it way to dark to distinguish anything.
You have proof of this?
