2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[forza2.0]

How is it misleading?

It did it in 7:38

Here's the list, you be the judge :

BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (11/2002) 7:12.25
Radical SR3 Turbo ( 7/2003) 7.19 (7:26 road tyres link???)
Porsche Carrera GT ( 9/2004) 7:32.44 (22.835km circuit)
TechArt-Porsche GT street ( 8/2001) 7:43
Pagani Zonda S ( 7/2002) 7:44
Porsche 911 GT2 ( 6/2001) 7:46
Porsche 911 GT3 RS ( 3/2004) 7:47
Porsche 911 GT3 Cup ( 2/1999) 7:49
Lamborghini Murciélago ( 6/2002) 7:50
BMW M3 CSL ( 8/2003) 7:50
Mercedes SLR McLaren ( 6/2004) 7:52

So where does that place it....right below the CGT, which is atleast 5 times it's price.
I can't believe I'm using the Z06 guys arguments.

In testing porsche got their 997 GT3 RS round the ring in 7 mins 37 yet they never made a big deal about it. Their production car is slightly slower. And also the 997 GT2 is slower than the CGT but faster than the GTR.

Plus the GTR wont do 7 mins 38 on street legal tires anyway, whilst the porsches do.

 

[McLaren]

Yes that is if they are smart, but I mean most new models come with a premium or dealers require you to buy optional add-ons. I'm not sure if Chevy dealers did this when the new Z06 came out however.

True, and I find it crazy. I'm already thinking of buying a $70,000 car & the first thing the dealer tells me is, "Hey, you need to spend more to actually own this."

It's worse when in the end, the markup was not worth the demand for the car, or these options you have to buy are just retarded. I don't want an iPod adapter in my car for an extra $400, and I certainly don't want to give you another $60 just to take it out.

 

[forza2.0]

All those cars that are listed are tuners, stripped go karts, or off the charts hypercars.
Anyway, my argument was simply that there's no better bang for the buck car IMO.

Arguable really.

 

[YSSMAN]

How much are they marking-up the Z06 out and about? Most of the ones I've seen around here have pretty much being going for the sticker price, the only Corvette I can recall seeing marked-up as of late was an early-build 2007 Indy Pace Car with the six-speed slushbox...

The only cars I've seen with really, truly bad markups here in Michigan have been the special-edition Mustangs. Fox Ford here in town had more than a $20K markup on a black/gray GT500 Convertible, and I seem to remember a $14K markup on the Shelby GT. All this seeming rather silly when there were a wide range of Saleen and Roush Mustangs to choose from for about the same price, particularly the color-change S281E (a few grand short of the GT500).

Dealer markups are going to happen with the GT-R, I'm sure of it. My guess is that Gezon would be happy to stick $20K on top of the sticker price, and with Fox Nissan, who knows... People will pay for it who care about the car that much, but my guess is that it won't be the case here in Corvette/Porsche country...

 

[McLaren]

How much are they marking-up the Z06 out and about? Most of the ones I've seen around here have pretty much being going for the sticker price, the only Corvette I can recall seeing marked-up as of late was an early-build 2007 Indy Pace Car with the six-speed slushbox...

In Texas, none of the Z06's here have markups. If they're over sticker, it's because they have 1 of the LZ options.

The only cars I've seen with really, truly bad markups here in Michigan have been the special-edition Mustangs. Fox Ford here in town had more than a $20K markup on a black/gray GT500 Convertible, and I seem to remember a $14K markup on the Shelby GT. All this seeming rather silly when there were a wide range of Saleen and Roush Mustangs to choose from for about the same price, particularly the color-change S281E (a few grand short of the GT500).

The GT500 is already expensive as is for what it is, but for a dealer to ask for $68K ($48K sticker, right?), is downright outrageous. Why does Ford even bother putting these mark-up Mustangs on the lot when the Saleen at the same price as the mark-up next to it is better.

Dealer markups are going to happen with the GT-R, I'm sure of it. My guess is that Gezon would be happy to stick $20K on top of the sticker price, and with Fox Nissan, who knows... People will pay for it who care about the car that much, but my guess is that it won't be the case here in Corvette/Porsche country...

See, that's not going to help Nissan trying to get new folks in. Someone who has just briefly heard of a Skyline will turn away from a $90K Asking Price just because it's a Nissan.

This is the big feat Nissan must overcome along with any other Japanese manufacturer trying to sell a high-priced car in the US when their main lineup is the complete opposite. But, most of the time, the company has a side company who sells high-dollar cars such as Honda's Acura, and Toyota's Lexus. Both these companies have/will made it easier for the performance cars to be sold. Honda knew nobody would want to pay for a $50,000 Honda (NSX), so they sold it under Acura. Toyota will be doing the same with the LF-A. Nobody wants a $100K Toyota, but since people will buy a $100,000 Lexus, offer it there. Of course though, Nissan only has Infiniti. Nissan could try to sell the car under Infiniti to make the task easier, but the GT-R has been a Nissan since birth. So, since this will remain under Nissan, the price needs to be put reasonably.
[/rant]

 

[Leonidae]

try again

6'55 - Radical SR8 – 2005

7'14 - Donkervoort D8 270 RS - 2005

7'15 - Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS - 2005

7'18 - Donkervoort D8 RS - 2004

7'19 - Radical SR3 1500 Turbo - 2003

7'32 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO - 2001

its misleading when you stated that it is the fastest car around the ring and it isnt and the radical was on road legal street tyres,with slicks it does it in around 6:30ish(what do you know same time difference as the GTR did )

yeah, they all have something that GT-R doesn't have: huge bookshelf-shaped wing, aero kit, RACING SLICKS, bit of piping in case you flip it over , some of them doesn't even have doors nor boot.. they're TRACKDAY SPECIALS for pete's sake! I bet you would love to drive them during rush hour, burning out your racing spec clutch and jerking forwards with the gearbox that's not meant for slow traffic speeds.. and some of them doesn't even have roof! as well I could claim that Go-kart with Hayabusa engine, lights, wing and register plate is the fastest thing on the ring as long as they're legal in some island behind gods back.

yes, you could drive them daily, but would you enjoy of it, unlike in GT-R, 997 Turbo or Z06? not.

 

[Famine]

My brother drives his Ariel Atom 12 miles to work every day.

That doesn't have a roof. Or doors. Or bodywork. And they're legal to drive on the road on this "island behind gods back" (sic) and the USA.


Incidentally, the tag of "trackday special" has been levelled at the Corvette Z06, since its suspension is just too hard to use on public roads in the UK.

 

[Leonidae]

then your brother is a lucky man who has done his choice. and Atom is fairly civilized when compared to these examples here.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

yeah, they all have something that GT-R doesn't have: huge bookshelf-shaped wing,

GTR has that

aero kit

gtr has that

RACING SLICKS,

they dont have those as they would make them not road legal and ive seen those kinda cars driven on the streets therefore not on racing slicks but road tyres,in fact on another forum im on a guy did a whole euro trip in his SR3 and theres a few that are daily driven.

bit of piping in case you flip it over

GTR has that (commonly known as a roof)

they're TRACKDAY SPECIALS for pete's sake!

hmmm what would the GTR evo be classed as then?

I bet you would love to drive them during rush hour, burning out your racing spec clutch and jerking forwards with the gearbox that's not meant for slow traffic speeds..

the radical has a bike clutch and gearbox and yet you see those driven daily with no problems dont you?

as well I could claim that Go-kart with Hayabusa engine, lights, wing and register plate is the fastest thing on the ring as long as they're legal in some island behind gods back.

they are road legal in a fair amount of countrys

yes, you could drive them daily, but would you enjoy of it, unlike in GT-R, 997 Turbo or Z06? not.

and you would know that how? you forgot to meantion about you daily driving a GTR,997,z06,SR8/3 daily to know that.

 

[Famine]

then your brother is a lucky man who has done his choice. and Atom is fairly civilized when compared to these examples here.

Nevertheless, it is covered when you say:

RACING SLICKS, bit of piping in case you flip it over , some of them doesn't even have doors nor boot.. they're TRACKDAY SPECIALS for pete's sake!

If you class Yokohama A539s as "racing slicks", at least.

 

[Leonidae]

GTR has that

I see a wing that could be found from a base Primera, not a huge airfoil like in the Radicals or those Porsches.

gtr has that

I don't see GT-R having F1-inspired front spoiler, excessive air vents etc.


they dont have those as they would make them not road legal and ive seen those kinda cars driven on the streets therefore not on racing slicks but road tyres,in fact on another forum im on a guy did a whole euro trip in his SR3 and theres a few that are daily driven.

Then, look at that Gemballa Porsche. Looks like slicks to me.


GTR has that (commonly known as a roof)

That's called chassis or roof, not a roll cage.


hmmm what would the GTR evo be classed as then?

Nothing since it doesn't exist yet and most likely won't come out under Evo moniker.

the radical has a bike clutch and gearbox and yet you see those driven daily with no problems dont you?

Not during winter.


they are road legal in a fair amount of countrys

but do we see them on the roads more often than motorbikes or such? no.



and you would know that how? you forgot to meantion about you daily driving a GTR,997,z06,SR8/3 daily to know that.

and I haven't heard of you driving any of these "roadlegal" kitcars.

Famine, I was referring to that Gemballa Porsche..

 

[TopHat]

Incidentally, the tag of "trackday special" has been levelled at the Corvette Z06, since its suspension is just too hard to use on public roads in the UK.

I find this incredibly odd considering the lack of everything with and Ariel Atom.

Is the Magnetic Ride Control and option over there? That has a "Tour" setting that softens up the suspension quite a bit. You'd be suprised to see the amount of Corvettes in general that are daily driven (or atleast during fairer weather) here.

 

[Famine]

Famine, I was referring to that Gemballa Porsche..

But, nevertheless, all points apply equally to both cars. You cannot discount one without discounting the other, and I've shown you cannot discount one...

I find this incredibly odd considering the lack of everything with and Ariel Atom.

Is the Magnetic Ride Control and option over there? That has a "Tour" setting that softens up the suspension quite a bit. You'd be suprised to see the amount of Corvettes in general that are daily driven (or atleast during fairer weather) here.

It does seem to be an incongruity of sorts, but I've not read a review where the Z06 is anything but a terrible bone-shaker on our roads.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I see a wing that could be found from a base Primera, not a huge airfoil like in the Radicals or those Porsches.

I don't see GT-R having F1-inspired front spoiler, excessive air vents etc.

www.specsavers.com HTH

Then, look at that Gemballa Porsche. Looks like slicks to me.

but the radicals dont

Nothing since it doesn't exist yet and most likely won't come out under Evo moniker.

excuses?

Not during winter.

maybe not where you live?

but do we see them on the roads more often than motorbikes or such? no.

and that proves they arent drivable every day? doubt it

and I haven't heard of you driving any of these "roadlegal" kitcars.

ive been in a couple of these "trackday" specials as you claim thanks

 

[Leonidae]

pics or didn't happen.

and I already have glasses, thanks so much. I still don't see huge GT-spec wing sprouting from the GT-R.

Radicals have enough downforce to cope with normal tyres..

and no, no excuses, just logical thinking. Evo would cause mistakes since that is usually associated with Mitsubishi, don't oyu think?

exactly. GT-R, 997 turbo, Z06 etc can be driven around a year even in the extreme conditions unlike go-karts.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

pics or didn't happen.

search knockhill and youll find about 15 thread but most of the recent stuff was just posted in the DYSAGT topic.

 

[TopHat]

It does seem to be an incongruity of sorts, but I've not read a review where the Z06 is anything but a terrible bone-shaker on our roads.

What are they driving on? Boulders?

All we get when a 'Vette is reviewed is "A daily drivable supercar"

 

[forza2.0]

then your brother is a lucky man who has done his choice. and Atom is fairly civilized when compared to these examples here.

And the 997 GT2? Is that cheating also?

 

[YSSMAN]

Is the Magnetic Ride Control and option over there? That has a "Tour" setting that softens up the suspension quite a bit. You'd be suprised to see the amount of Corvettes in general that are daily driven (or atleast during fairer weather) here.

The Magnaride suspension setup is actually its own model trim, and isn't compatible with the general Z51 or Z06 models that I assume most people buy, and furthermore, that are tested in the magazines. The new ZR-1 will likely use the Magnaride system, given that its the same exact system thats being used by Audi on the TT and Ferrari on the 599GTB (obviously different levels of tune there).

...As has been discussed dozens of times around here, its very strange indeed that American writers have practically said that the Z06 suspension was "soft" and it showed on the track with the tricky back-end. My guess is that some of it has been sorted out, but I have yet to see an article in a foreign mag on the updated Corvettes. New engines, updated transmissions, altered suspensions, new steering systems, etc have all been applied since 2005/2006.

 

[forza2.0]

What are they driving on? Boulders?

All we get when a 'Vette is reviewed is "A daily drivable supercar"

American roads are better and alot bigger than british roads.

 

[TopHat]

Yes but a stiff suspension is stiff no matter where it is.

 

[Leonidae]

And the 997 GT2? Is that cheating also?

Did I say so? Should it be cheating from your point of view? If so, why? GT2 is as good all rounder as Z06. GT3 RS and such would be bit closer to cheating, depending of what is considered as cheating.

 

[forza2.0]

Yes but a stiff suspension is stiff no matter where it is.

I would say the suspension on my car is stiff, sometimes a bit too harsh for my liking so I can only imagine what the Z06 is like.

 

[Famine]

Yes but a stiff suspension is stiff no matter where it is.

Stiff suspension + smooth roads = Fine.
Stiff suspension + pitted, potholed, volcanic helldeath roads = Shattered spine.

My car smacks off the bumpstops on some of our local roads at not even close to the legal limit. And that's a 1990s (1980s design?) Japanese sporty-looking hatchback.

 

[Kent]

I think calling the Z06 a trackday special is a bit much but I will grant the idea that "trackday special" is a subjective term.
Stiff suspension alone shouldn't be able to earn that designation. Here in Louisiana (southeastern la. roundbout new orleans) has the worst road conditions in the US (debatable?).
In any case, I've met many in this area who claim the Nissan Z is too stiff... Simply being too stiff for comfortable daily driving doesn't make that a trackday car (especially if the people are sensitive or not as enthusiastic as other drivers).

I'd say too many Z06s are purchased with modern conveniences and comforts for "trackday special" to fit properly.

"Trackday special" is so subjective... If I were to change the wheels and tires, strip the back seat and roof lining, lose the a/c and radio... That would be a start for making a trackday special out of my Corolla.

Further, I'd say stressing the horrible conditions of the roads only argues against the validity of the "too stiff" argument.
Run any car on horrible roads and you'll have a horrible ride (ranging from fun and bumpy to spine shattering).

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

and I already have glasses, thanks so much. I still don't see huge GT-spec wing sprouting from the GT-R.

still see a big rear wing and front aero kit,but again wasnt one of the arguements that they could have changed the downforce on the gtr to make it faster

exactly. GT-R, 997 turbo, Z06 etc can be driven around a year even in the extreme conditions unlike go-karts.

they can on another forum a few took SR3's around europe including through the alps.

 

[McLaren]

It does seem to be an incongruity of sorts, but I've not read a review where the Z06 is anything but a terrible bone-shaker on our roads.

That doesn't surprise me. Even US mags claim the Z06's suspension can pick up any little crest or dip in the road, and can be felt very easily by the driver.

exactly. GT-R, 997 turbo, Z06 etc can be driven around a year even in the extreme conditions unlike go-karts.

Define extreme conditions. Because if you're talking about snow, I highly doubt the Z06 is very effective in it.

 

[TopHat]

Stiff suspension + pitted, potholed, volcanic helldeath roads = Shattered spine.

You've just described the everyday commute of a Michigander. Or a NYC commuter.

 

[Kent]

Btw, the Louisiana weather is more on the side of ride height needed for driving through flooding streets, not driving over lava (although potholes are still horrible).
That said, people still drive Z06s in my area. Not too many of them but there are also tons of normal vettes for that matter.
I'm always suprised because I've met people who had trouble with road conditions and weather yet I still see great sports cars all around. 👍
I bet there will be a GT-R somewhere in my area before too long.

 

[xXSilencerXx]

I think Americans will be pissed that there's a better bang for the buck car than the Z06...opens up debate

Whatever. I still love my vette's and would never pass one up for a Nissan. I think the new Skyline is ugly and that vette is not. I like the price of the vette better, it is cheaper a fast all the same (I am not talking about a Z06 here). I really don't know how fast the new Nissan is but I'm not interested enough to find out. I don't car if it is faster than the vette or not it's not like I'm going to be racing it non-stop.