2009 Singapore Grand Prix

What other mistake did he make other than the Webber incident at Bahrain? He is a little over-rated but he is a decent driver and is clearly something special in the wet.
I'm not so sure he can make it into a top team though, but its not impossible, there have been worse drivers to get top drives.

Really, this season has probably had the strongest grid of drivers, well, ever. The cars have little difference between them and very rarely is any driver regularly last. I don't really rate any of the drivers particularly badly, even Nakajima had his moments last year. There are no Deletraz or Firman's thats for sure.

Even the rookies have managed to mix it up with the big boys, when the Toro Rosso has been remotely competitive even Buemi and Alguesuari have had a crack at a few experienced and well rated drivers.
 
- China: losing it on the straight while being in the points
- Bahrain: blocking Webber for two laps in the row in Q1
- Spain: starting a multiple car crash
- Monaco: trying to hit Alonso when Alonso went back on the track from pits and was 1 lap ahead of Sutil
- Great Britain: crashing hard in qualifying
- Germany: crashing into Raikkonen while leaving pitlane despite being blue flagged. I know it wasn't entirely his fault...but c'mon who was the one coming out of the pits onto the racing line on cold tires with no pace without looking properly.
- Belgium: tripping over Alonso's left front wheel which put Alonso later out of the race
- Italy: driving into his mechanics
- Singapore: driving into Heidfeld while recovering from spin

Might as well throw rocks at him if you want to throw rocks at drivers like Piquet :lol:
 
- China: not paricularly dangerous, a mistake yes but then I remember that his tyres were pretty worn because he was on a 1-stopper strategy.
- Bahrain: yup, dangerous and stupid
- Spain: how on earth did he start it? he cheated and got some karma, but he didnt start it!
- Monaco: don't remember this, and I somewhat doubt he "tried to hit Alonso" fanboy much?
- Great Britain: crashing because of a mechanical failure if I remember right, again not dangerous driving or a stupid error.
- Germany: 50/50 mistake, can't really blame him, normal racing incident
- Belgium: again with the Alonso fanboyism....turn 1 incident, jeez.
- Italy: ok, but then a lot of people have done this, even Schumacher
- Singapore: yes, a stupid incident.

So, thats 2 incidents then. With the only other possibles being fanboy blind comments. 👎
 
- China: losing it on the straight while being in the points
- Bahrain: blocking Webber for two laps in the row in Q1
- Spain: starting a multiple car crash
- Great Britain: crashing hard in qualifying
- Germany: crashing into Raikkonen while leaving pitlane despite being blue flagged. I know it wasn't entirely his fault...but c'mon who was the one coming out of the pits onto the racing line on cold tires with no pace without looking properly.
- Belgium: tripping over Alonso's left front wheel which put Alonso later out of the race. (Watch the replay and you'll clearly see that Sutil cuts Nakajima and Alonso off without any care in the world. He really seems to lack peripheral vision and sense of what is around him tbh) No bias coming from me there, despite what you say :lol:
- Italy: driving into his mechanics (came in like a wreckless abandon, locking the rears up and almost taking out several pit men in the process...it looked quite wreckless compared to most pit incidents I've seen)
- Singapore: driving into Heidfeld while recovering from spin

OK...fixed. That seems like a lot of errors in one season...just saying he can be a numpty at times...or shall I say a bit careless :lol:
 
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At SPA no one else apart from me seemed to actually notice that sutil got tagged from someone else which turned him across Alonso rather than him purposely cutting across Alonso also I doubt you are impartial since you are obviously an Alonso fan nor am I since I like Force India.
 
TGM Tiddy
At SPA no one else apart from me seemed to actually notice that sutil got tagged from someone else which turned him across Alonso rather than him purposely cutting across Alonso also I doubt you are impartial since you are obviously an Alonso fan nor am I since I like Force India.
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I just watched the replay a few minutes ago, and it's blatantly obvious that it is Sutil's fault...AND, I'm not being biased or opinionated in any way! Sutil started in 11th I believe (right side of track, near pit wall). He ended up darting across the track to the left side and ended up about 5 feet away from the white line (on the outside) by the time he was ready to turn in for T1. Alonso was on the right side (inside) the entire time, hugging the inside as close as possible, with Nakajima just a few inches to his left. Nakajima and Alonso gave ample room for eachother to get through cleanly, and then Sutil just comes diving in from the other side of the track to clip his apex (he was only 3-4 feet away from the inside curbing! lol) as if he is the only car on the track :crazy: The part that's annoying is that he's been doing such things all season long, without much question from Stewards...as a lot of his numpty moves aren't neccesarily blatantly obvious
 
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On a different note, how many people think this race seals Kavalainen's fate in McLaren? I think there's no way he'll get an chance after the two years he got.
 
tibiquera
On a different note, how many people think this race seals Kavalainen's fate in McLaren? I think there's no way he'll get an chance after the two years he got.
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IMO,
I think Kovalainen's chances were nil before this race. Especially if the reports of Raikkonen moving back to Mclaren next year are true. I doubt they are though, seeing as how they came from an unreliable source. I think Kovi has been consistently out performed by Hamilton all year. They should put Hulkenburg in that no.2 Mclaren seat, German in a Merc ftw. Either way Kovalainen's performance in the begining of the season is kind of in-excusable... Though I think hes done alright since, I don't think it's anything Kubica or Rosberg could not do in that same car. He's better than bad this year, showed some improvement, nothing like Lewis though.
 
tibiquera
On a different note, how many people think this race seals Kavalainen's fate in McLaren? I think there's no way he'll get an chance after the two years he got.
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I would say FOR SURE he will be canned at the end of this season. Not necessarily because of this race though, because he obviously got shafted in Q3 due to Ruben's crash and didn't have much luck with the yellow periods during the race. The thing that will get him canned is his lack of consistency throughout the season though. I personally think he has great potential in Qualifying, as we saw him out qualify (fuel corrected) Lewis on a few occasions this season...which says something for his one lap pace capabilities.

IMO what he lacks is the high level of racecraft that the top drivers have (Lewis, Alonso, Kimi, Massa). He seems like a really nice guy and gets along with the team quite well, but he just doesn't seem to have that inner charisma and fire that make the best that much hungrier to push all out, every lap. Macca are likely looking for someone much more competitive, especially with one of the biggest silly seasons around the corner. Lewis has pretty much done all of the point grabbing for Mclaren this season, while Kovi has just sat back being the inconsistent, non aggresive #2 driver...something that could really hurt Mclaren's WCC hopes next year if they have a competitive car from the start.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kimi makes a return to Mclaren next year if Alonso moves to Ferrari, but then that leaves Rosberg in a questionable position, as he will likely leave Williams for Brawn, Macca, or...who knows 💡 :lol: Hulkenburg is already linked to Williams, so I wouldn't be suprised one bit if he ends up going there, being a rookie in Formula 1.

I'm really looking forward to next seasons drivers line ups though, as we could potentially see some utterly sick pilots (arguably the most talented drivers ever) on both Ferrari and Mclaren camps :sly:
 
I know, I have a feeling next year is going to be madness with all the driver changes and new teams, I really can't wait. Yeah, I don't know that Hulkenberg is going to do all that well at Williams, I just meant I'd rather see him driving for Mclaren. I could be wrong though. What if Rosberg does go to Brawn and Jensen is out of his seat? The speed commentators were talking about that being one of his possible landing places. Where would Jensen go, Toyota if they clean house? I'm just wondering what drivers if any will be on the outside looking in next season with so seat.

I don't know why I think Jensen would be out at Brawn. I just don't think they would axe Rubens, I'm really hoping he swipes the WDC from Jensen this year. I don't think Rubens wants more money, he's made enough, he just wants to win.
 
Stewards seem to hold a grudge against Mark Webber, after the Nurburgring incident, and now this 50/50 incident in Singapore, both went against him, he can't buy a trick at the moment. I just hope he can notch up another victory before season close. That's my 2 cents, cheers.
 
LSX
What if Rosberg does go to Brawn and Jensen is out of his seat? The speed commentators were talking about that being one of his possible landing places. Where would Jensen go, Toyota if they clean house? I'm just wondering what drivers if any will be on the outside looking in next season with so seat.
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I think Barrichello is the more likely to go. Especially if Button wins the title; there's no way they'll cut him loose.
 
interludes
I think Barrichello is the more likely to go. Especially if Button wins the title; there's no way they'll cut him loose.
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Well your probably right. But Button is trying to renegotiate the money he gave up at the start of the season to keep BGP alive. I don't think he would look elsewhere if he could not get it because hes not going to get a better ride elsewhere. But at the same time, I don't see Rubens getting a better ride if he were to leave BGP. I don't think he would go for driving another Honda like bring up the rear kind of car, or rather I hope he wouldn't. With all the drivers going to be available next year, I just don't see him going with anything other than a new team then, and for a large sum of money. SO that leads me to think he'd retire, which I don't want to see because he is running so well. But if he were to retire, I'd rather see him go at the top of his game, like this season. I like the Brawn roster as it stands though. I however would pull for Rubens before Jensen. Jensen has more time left in him that Rubens, so I would rather see Rubens get the better ride for now.

I don't really have anything to base this off of other than my opinion and what I'd like to see. We are going to have to just wait and see how it all plays out.
 
MarkWebber
Stewards seem to hold a grudge against Mark Webber, after the Nurburgring incident, and now this 50/50 incident in Singapore, both went against him, he can't buy a trick at the moment. I just hope he can notch up another victory before season close. That's my 2 cents, cheers.
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It might have something to do with him dropping the "F" bomb at reasonably frequent rate.

I do agree with you, he does seem to cop the rough end of the stick. I guess the stewards expect him to have not over taken Alonso. Alonso flinched at him and gave Mark no option than to go outside the ripple strip. Alonso then wheelspun for 25m. Isnt that a driver error on Alonso's part and should suffer the consequense of being passed, inside or out. Was Mark expected to hang off the throttle?
 
I agree with you guys I feel Mark's punishment was far too harsh for the act and was left no room to go. Oh well hopefully he can still pull a good spot on the drivers championship. He is a great driver but as you guys say he always gets the bad luck!
 
Yeah Webber shouldn't've got his give 2 places back penalty today - but he did deserve the drive through in Germany.

C.
 
interludes
I think Barrichello is the more likely to go. Especially if Button wins the title; there's no way they'll cut him loose.
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My guess is: if Renault loses Alonso, they'll need a good driver with some experience to counter Alguersuari lack of experience. So if Alonso goes to Ferrari, Kimi to McLaren, and Rosberg to Brawn, it would make sense if Barrichello were to go to Renault. But for some reason I still think Brawn will keep both Button and Barrichello for next year.
 
tibiquera
My guess is: if Renault loses Alonso, they'll need a good driver with some experience to counter Alguersuari lack of experience. So if Alonso goes to Ferrari, Kimi to McLaren, and Rosberg to Brawn, it would make sense if Barrichello were to go to Renault. But for some reason I still think Brawn will keep both Button and Barrichello for next year.
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I'll add another 2 cents to the discussion, although it doesn't mean much in this point in time. RUMOR has it that Ruben's might be going to Williams next year, and Rosberg to Brawn in a direct trade. Then there is talk of Kubica going to Renault to replace Alonso(leaked from Whitmarsh).
 
AUSnicko9
I agree with you guys I feel Mark's punishment was far too harsh for the act and was left no room to go. Oh well hopefully he can still pull a good spot on the drivers championship. He is a great driver but as you guys say he always gets the bad luck!
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Far too harsh? Webber went of the racing track and using that space held both Glock and Alonso behind him. Therefore, according to the rules, he had to give those places back. There's nothing too harsh about that, just fair and square according to the rules. I am, however, upset that there was no same action taken against Fisichella who clearly did the same thing, yet he did not recieve a penalty.
 
Bram Turismo
Far too harsh? Webber went of the racing track and using that space held both Glock and Alonso behind him. Therefore, according to the rules, he had to give those places back. There's nothing too harsh about that, just fair and square according to the rules. I am, however, upset that there was no same action taken against Fisichella who clearly did the same thing, yet he did not recieve a penalty.
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I totally agree with you on that one, futher more Fisichella passed under the yellow flags. Yet again it is one rule for one driver and another one for another, they really have to sort that out.
 
ASH32
I totally agree with you on that one, futher more Fisichella passed under the yellow flags.
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But did he? From what I saw, Liuzzi seemed to think he had passed Fisi under yellows and was giving him the place back. Liuzzi did slow as if he giving the place back to Fisi. I can find no quotes from either of them though.
 
daan
But did he? From what I saw, Liuzzi seemed to think he had passed Fisi under yellows and was giving him the place back. Liuzzi did slow as if he giving the place back to Fisi. I can find no quotes from either of them though.
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It looked to me like he did when I was watching it live, though like you said, it is possible Liuzzi could have passed under the yellow first, it depends on where the yellow section started. It would be nice to know definitively though, are there any replays of the incident that anyone knows of?
 
ASH32
It would be nice to know definitively though, are there any replays of the incident that anyone knows of?
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I haven't seen any. iPlayer has the whole race, but I didn't have time to go through it to find the incident. We'd never really be sure unless we saw in car footage from either Fisi or Liuzzi and we didn't get that.
 
tibiquera
My guess is: if Renault loses Alonso, they'll need a good driver with some experience to counter Alguersuari lack of experience.
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We hope you mean Grosjean.

Don't think it's gonna happen, he might go to Williams if Brawn want Rosberg
 
Hun200kmh
Vettel's penalty unjustified? RBR claims he didn't use excessive speed.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091001151150.shtml


One thing I don't understand though, why didn't they lodge an official protest, even before Vettel's drive-through happened? They had the time to do it, right?
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I think yes they can but first they have to look into the telemetry first to confirm that. After that, within 5 laps before the last call for Vettel to come in, they can lodge an official protest by calling an FIA stewart through radio on the pit wall... But it has to be within 5 laps after they received the penalty call and before Vettel has to serve it... For sure you need a proof for that :)

Please correct me if I'm wrong...:)
 
It's not going to make any difference. Red Bull will have a vey difficult time proving that Vettel was denied a win or podium. He damaged his diffuser - and probably the floor in the process - as well as losing a wing mirror (while this wouldn't have hurt, the stalk that had held it was a very un-aerodynamic shape afterwards, which would have cost him). Even if Vettel had been ahead of Glock and Alonso, it's likely both would have caught him regardless because he was noticeably slower. And since the penalty didn't cause the damage, there's no way Red Bull can say it wouldn't have happened otherwise. At the most, they'll be able to get the FIA to change the way pit speeds are measured, but nothing more.
 

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