2011 Chinese Grand Prix

[zippy_the_cat]

i for one wouldn't complain much if we heard a radio transmission that went "fernando, felipe is faster than you.

+1

 

[YellowG1]

One wonders whether the next qualifying will just have people saving their tyres for the race instead.....

Perhaps, but it's still too risky of a strategy. Too many times there is a Turn 1 pileup. Better to be at the sharp end of the field and make your way forward.

And congratulations to Lewis & McLaren. Stunning drive.👍

That is one ugly trophy.

Glad it wasn't just me. It looked like something they had left underwater for a year or two.

 

[Sureboss]

Superb race, absolutely fantastic. Really good drive from Lewis and I was a bit disappointed Massa couldn't hold his ground.

 

[Ardius]

On the positive side, its great to see Massa finding some form again, two finishes ahead of Alonso is good going, even if Malaysia was mostly due to the contact with Lewis. 👍 I hope Massa keeps it up.

Oh and nice to see some genuine emotion from Lewis too, his joy on the podium was very refreshing to see. Perhaps his new manager is helping in this area?

 

[livemusic]

Just watched the highlights since I missed the race at 4AM. Awesome race with some good battles, also glad to see Massa getting back to his old form.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Was an excellent race, Shanghai usually delivers exciting races. Amazing to see Webber plough through the field like that. As for Hamilton well deserved but I bet he wishes he hadn't made those comments about leaving Mclaren a few days ago.

Robin.

The comments saying his loyalty is assured as long as he is in a car capable of winning the championship? Don't see anything wrong with that. Infact I think it's a rare insight into Hamilton that wasn't coached by some PR.

 

[Ardius]

I think thats another example of Hamilton's very poor PR skills, he seems to constantly say the wrong thing when he is emotional in interview and then pass it off later on in another interview. He needs to find a better balance, you can be genuine and sponsor-friendly at the same time...just look at Jenson or Alonso.
As I just said though, I felt today was a breath of fresh air as he was bubbling with joy on the podium and in interview. He didn't spend 5 minutes thanking every sponsor, team member, etc, he just said what he felt, not what he should say. 👍

Lewis always strikes me as a driver very much like Alonso and Barrichello - he can get very emotional. But he seems constrained in interviews because he has been trained to be sponsor-friendly, and its why I don't really like him very much as a personality. I hope his new manager recognises this and teaches Lewis to be more open, even if its negative towards the team or sponsors, because, in a way, its also more positive.

 

[Rossticles]

There's still no word of a penalty for Alonso.

Hmmmmm.........

 

[Robin]

The comments saying his loyalty is assured as long as he is in a car capable of winning the championship? Don't see anything wrong with that. Infact I think it's a rare insight into Hamilton that wasn't coached by some PR.

Thats probably what he wanted to convey but it certainly did come out like that! It was almost came across like he was delivering an ultimatum and being ungreatful to the team which had basically given him his career. Jenson is in the same car and you don't see him complaining as much.

You would think the fact that Hamilton went straight into a A grade F1 team, the same team that helped him get a world championship, would be enough to cut them some slack! This years car is miles better than the previous few and they have been on the podium every race!

I don't see what was so wrong with the trophy, guess you guys arn't fans of traditional pottery . Nice to have some different stuff in the cabinet!

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

There's still no word of a penalty for Alonso.

Hmmmmm.........

Penalty for what?

 

[Terronium-12]

Penalty for what?

Illegal DRS activation.

Like I said some time earlier in the thread, it could have been an accident of some kind, or, he could have been trying to sneak one in.

 

[Ardius]

As I posted in the DRS thread:

Electrics and hydraulics can fail and possibly cause it to open without Alonso triggering it.

Edit: And so we have it:

BBC Sport has learnt that an error caused Alonso's DRS to 'offset' on that lap.

That meant it was not enabled until 300m before the end of the straight, and was then available after the corner for a short time.

This meant that he gained no advantage from the situation - in fact it actually caused him a disadvantage - so was given no penalty.

FIA officials are still investigating what caused the error.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13109394.stm

BBC have been pretty quick on the scoops this weekend! I wonder if they will get in trouble with FOM for breaking from the world stream during the race? (For those who don't get BBC, they cut to their own-made replay of when Alonso's wing activated at the wrong point on the track)

 

[Terronium-12]

As I posted in the DRS thread:

Good. It was a fault then.

What about Massa going over the white line at the pit exit?

 

[Ardius]

A relatively minor offense, I'm sure he only cut it where its at an odd angle to the exit to the track - which I think a few other drivers also did. Hard to remember as a lot went on again this weekend!
Maybe he only got a slapped wrist from the stewards for it? Or maybe the stewards are going soft on that kind of offense, remember when Hamilton completely ignored the track limits at last year's Chinese GP?

Its always been a rather inconsistently enforced rule anyway because it seems accepted for drivers to drive over pit entry lines, even in other race series. (which was why it was very surprising when AMR were punished at Silversone in GT1 last year for it!).

 

[Rossticles]

There's been a little leniency regarding the pit exit recently. I remember Kubica crossing over it in Abu Dhabi and it was overlooked.

I want a bit more explanation than an accident causing DRS to activate. It just seems a bit suspicious. Alonso was having a little trouble getting past Schumacher. The wing flap was only opened between the last turn and the turn before it. I don't see how that would cause a disadvantage. I'm not even going to remotely say the incident is going to be overlooked because it was Alonso who did it though.

 

[Ardius]

Can you not read? The disadvantage is from not gaining the full DRS distance - he didn't get the full boost he should have got, and instead got it on the very short little straight before the final corner (which is a useless area for DRS).

What is suspicious about it? The FIA monitor and control the DRS activation. If Alonso and Ferrari had cheated (which its not possible for them to do so), the FIA would know and would have punished them.
What more is there to say? The FIA have said they will investigate how the error occured and Alonso didn't gain anything from it. Its also good to see that despite the error, the safety mechanisms for the system still worked, as the flap clearly closed for the corner before opening again. Although its still a worry if the car was in a high speed corner where the driver doesn't touch the brakes (which automatically de-activate the system).

 

[Anghammarad]

I'm not even going to remotely say the incident is going to be overlooked because it was Alonso who did it though.

You just did.

 

[Rossticles]

No, I can't read. Get off your cross.

How do we know DRS wasn't already used by Alonso on the half of the back straight? It was opened after turn 14 and closed before turn 16. I haven't read anything from him saying he couldn't open it at any point during the race. I would think he or Stefano would have brought it up.

Oh wait I can't read.



Considering we're talking about both Massa's and Alonso's mistakes, there can be some confusion.

 

[DwightSchrute12]

BBC have been pretty quick on the scoops this weekend! I wonder if they will get in trouble with FOM for breaking from the world stream during the race? (For those who don't get BBC, they cut to their own-made replay of when Alonso's wing activated at the wrong point on the track)

I think Speed did to. The replay was shown before Hobbs or someone said, "Wait, was his DRS open?" and then it went back again and they circled it in yellow. Not sure if that was world feed or not.

Also, I'm a little unhappy with the reasoning for not giving a penalty. I'm okay with them saying "no penalty was given because it was a technical malfunction that Alonso did not initiate" but NOT because "it did not provide him an advantage, and in fact gave him a disadvantage."

The racing incident Alonso was in last weekend gave him a disadvantage since he had to pit in. So he shouldn't be penalized right?

Now I now it's two different situations, and the DRS thing doesn't have a basis for penalties. It's also possible the wording for the lack of a penalty could be a BBC reporter thing and not FIA. But my point remains that the lack of penalty should not rely on a disadvantage but on the malfunction that Alonso had nothing to do with.

 

[Snaeper]

Loved the race to death, very very exciting and I was happy to see the top teams competing in form since Mercedes had a disappointing Malaysia race and the Ferrari's had joined them. I was sad to see that the Lotus-Renault squad suffered during the event though, hopefully they return to some form because everything will get really interesting at that point.

Thank goodness for Di Resta and Kobayashi! They make the middle of the pack interesting.

Vettel's line about everyone wanting to stop in their pits had me laughing. However Webbers comment about his teammate finially being beaten was un-called for. He seems like a bit of a child sometimes, jealous of his younger brother. And there's no reason for him to be, since he is just as fast or faster on ocasion.

I actually loved when Webber said that. I've been waiting for someone to say that since the first race. He's basically happy they have competition, with Hamilton serving up a little Humble-pie for Vettel and letting the whole team know that they need to keep the pace up or they'll get passed up. In my opinion, Webber is acting more like the older brother and keeping his younger and more talented kin in line, since the kid is the reigning world champ and has won the first two races of 2011. If you don't get an ego from that in ANY racing series, let alone Formula 1, then you're not human.

Racing is always much more fun when you're neck and neck with someone, it's boring when you've got an insane lead out front and it's boring and sad when you're the lone wolf at the end of the pack.

And when you have a race from 18th to 3rd you can say whatever you want IMO. If that race had gone 3-4 more laps Webber might've been higher up on the podium the way he was driving.

 

[Ardius]

Because the BBC article says so (this is the "not read" bit). The DRS zone is 600m. So if he only got 300m, it meant he had 300m left of DRS to use, which is why it activated again.
The evidence is the FIA admitting so...so what more do you want?

Also, I'm a little unhappy with the reasoning for not giving a penalty. I'm okay with them saying "no penalty was given because it was a technical malfunction that Alonso did not initiate" but NOT because "it did not provide him an advantage, and in fact gave him a disadvantage."

The racing incident Alonso was in last weekend gave him a disadvantage since he had to pit in. So he shouldn't be penalized right?

Now I now it's two different situations, and the DRS thing doesn't have a basis for penalties. It's also possible the wording for the lack of a penalty could be a BBC reporter thing and not FIA. But my point remains that the lack of penalty should not rely on a disadvantage but on the malfunction that Alonso had nothing to do with.

Why should Alonso get a penalty for an FIA mistake? The line about not gaining an advantage was a BBC line, not an FIA statement. Context is an important thing.

Again, it might help if some people read the articles before posting .

 

[DwightSchrute12]

Why should Alonso get a penalty for an FIA mistake? The line about not gaining an advantage was a BBC line, not an FIA statement.

Again, it might help if some people read the articles before posting .

1) I never said he should get a penalty for an FIA mistake. Maybe you should read that.

2)I also stated that I was unsure if was a statement from BBC or FIA.

3) I did read the article before posting to check the context of the line. But I appreciate you assuming I didn't. It makes you look worse.

 

[Rossticles]

^ Heheheheh

The whole thing is just peculiar. I would think the FIA had all the glitches out of the system. I also was under the impression that the wing closing automatically under braking acted as a fail-safe.

 

[Ardius]

1) I never said he should get a penalty for an FIA mistake. Maybe you should read that.

2)I also stated that I was unsure if was a statement from BBC or FIA.

3) I did read the article before posting to check the context of the line. But I appreciate you assuming I didn't. It makes you look worse.

Then let me give you a very important piece of advice:
If an article does not have a quote, do not assume the subject matter is a statement. The BBC article doesn't quote anything from the FIA, so its silly to assume any opinions or reasons stated are official statements and reasons from the FIA.
Many trashy media outlets use a tactic of writing their opinions worded to sound like official comments by whichever celebrity/whomever they are talking about. So its dangerous to assume these things.

Better to assume that everything in an article is personal opinions from the writer unless stated otherwise.

The whole thing is just peculiar. I would think the FIA had all the glitches out of the system. I also was under the impression that the wing closing automatically under braking acted as a fail-safe.

Apparently not, new technology has glitches, fact of life. The nature of this particular system makes it impossible to properly test until race conditions, so its not surprising they are still having teething issues with it.
It would be more perculiar if the system never failed.

The FIA still get timing errors too from time to time, I seem to remember some cars having to have their transponders changed a couple of times (admittedly not a lot, but it has happened..and timing systems have been around way longer than DRS obviously). There was also that complete timing system failure at the 2009 Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying in Q3.

 

[crooky369]

Take this with a pinch of salt but I think I saw him use it in Australia when I judged he wasn't within a second as well.

 

[eSZee]

Sad vettel lost first place but his start was terrible (red bull need to work on their KERS) and his tires got to him at the end of the race

KERS wouldn't have mattered since he bogged during take off, easily seen on replay. Also, you can't use KERS if you're going under 100kmh(I know it's true when exiting a corner but is it also true at race start?) so that wouldn't have helped either at the start, where he screwed up.

 

[DwightSchrute12]

Then let me give you a very important piece of advice:
If an article does not have a quote, do not assume the subject matter is a statement. The BBC article doesn't quote anything from the FIA, so its silly to assume any opinions or reasons stated are official statements and reasons from the FIA.
Many trashy media outlets use a tactic of writing their opinions worded to sound like official comments by whichever celebrity/whomever they are talking about. So its dangerous to assume these things.

Better to assume that everything in an article is personal opinions from the writer unless stated otherwise.

I never thought about the article being an own opinion!

I hardly think the BBC is a "trashy media outlet" but I stand by my original statement that the wording could have been a BBC reporter and not the FIA and that it was partially unclear if it was. It probably is the reporter and not the FIA, and it is highly likely he is an idiot, but I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt, because I was feeling nice.

This is going to be a long three weeks...

 

[Ardius]

I did not say that the BBC is a trashy outlet, its just there are those out there. What Andrew Benson writes is his opinion, you do not have to read it as facts, if you choose to, then you are heading down a dangerous road with regards to news articles...the media are very manipulative writers and many times they do not have any source to back up what they are saying and sometimes they twist words.
While the BBC tries to stay unbiased, at the end of the day, even they are simply giving a news report with their opinion attached to it. Its up to you to extract the bare facts and seperate it from the opinions.

Unless the BBC had written, "The FIA stated that the reason was because Alonso didn't gain an advantage" then you would have a point, but seeing as it was a line thrown in the rest of the article, its pretty clear it was Andrew Benson's own part-explanation for why Alonso didn't get a penalty (or perhaps simply to further back-up that nothing serious really happened).

 

[Akira AC]

I did not say that the BBC is a trashy outlet, its just there are those out there. What Andrew Benson writes is his opinion, you do not have to read it as facts, if you choose to, then you are heading down a dangerous road with regards to news articles...the media are very manipulative writers and many times they do not have any source to back up what they are saying and sometimes they twist words.
While the BBC tries to stay unbiased, at the end of the day, even they are simply giving a news report with their opinion attached to it. Its up to you to extract the bare facts and seperate it from the opinions.

Unless the BBC had written, "The FIA stated that the reason was because Alonso didn't gain an advantage" then you would have a point, but seeing as it was a line thrown in the rest of the article, its pretty clear it was Andrew Benson's own part-explanation for why Alonso didn't get a penalty (or perhaps simply to further back-up that nothing serious really happened).

Exactly,the whole issue is mainly FIA fault,since the DRS activation zone is managed by them is logical to think that deactivation of the device is also manage by them,system glitches happens all the time,and I don't think that there is much down to it,is just a systematic error outside from human error,unless its FIA management error but I don't think that it is the case.

Besides is nothing serious or important as some other events in the race,like the times when Perez hit other cars,which I consider quite relevant,besides Alonso is doing quite badly this season,so this event shouldn't get the importance that it deserves.

 

[Akmuq]

So..... 3 whole weeks.
I think I'll watch the full race again tomorrow.