2012 Grand Premio Petrobras do Brasil

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Dennisch
I see it more as when the rain falls: who will have the best strategy and the biggest balls.
When it rains, it rains for everyone. So nobody is lucky or unlucky. Unless silly things happen, and we've seen that enough in the dry already.
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Well for example one driver can come into the pits on x lap, it suddenly chucks it down on x+2 lap, just in time for the other drive to make his stop. That's good luck.

gogatrs
Wouldn't that be nice!
A driver's championship decided by the driver's ability!
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Well I know I just meant rain races can go either way, you can either have everyone equal and we see who is good in the wet or you can have one where certain drivers just get lucky, as above.
 
i wouldnt be surprised if they changed Massa's gearbox again. He has been doing quite well in brazil, thats awesome, i would love to see him win even if Vettel was to be WDC.
 
This is yet another display of how good Massa can be against his hyped team-mate.

Regardless of that, is nice to see a 1-2 for McLaren, they are really showing a lot of muscle in terms of performance lately, here I'm hoping that such performance is paired with reliability.

Expecting a WDC victory for Vettel, the guy deserves it, more than Alonso if I'm brutally honest.
 
bzking23
i wouldnt be surprised if they changed Massa's gearbox again. He has been doing quite well in brazil, thats awesome, i would love to see him win even if Vettel was to be WDC.
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There would be no point, there would be nothing to gain since Massa could just let him past later in the race. The only reason they did it in the US was to move him to the cleaner side of the grid. If he was already on the clean side they wouldn't have done it there either.
 
hornet_burnout
Right. Same mistake by me. Wrong driver, still not Romains fault IMO.
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Eh, a "racing incident" in my book, but I would question Grosjean's thinking in that situation - he knows he's going to get past at some point, he had 4/5 minutes left in the session, why risk that move?

His peers wouldn't have tried that move - to me that says it all.

Its the kind of overtake you pull if you're on your last flying lap or racing for position in the race. Not on one of several qualifying laps.
 
Ardius
Eh, a "racing incident" in my book, but I would question Grosjean's thinking in that situation - he knows he's going to get past at some point, he had 4/5 minutes left in the session, why risk that move?

His peers wouldn't have tried that move - to me that says it all.

Its the kind of overtake you pull if you're on your last flying lap or racing for position in the race. Not on one of several qualifying laps.
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He thought his move has expected and that he was going to get by easy:
"I was behind Pedro for the whole lap, I was going to overtake him in a straight line and I don't think he saw me and pushed me into the barriers."
 
As Pedro said though he was on the dry racing line completing his hot lap, he was under no obligation to move and it's not really a place to overtake with the way the track bends there.
 
hornet_burnout
He thought his move has expected and that he was going to get by easy:
"I was behind Pedro for the whole lap, I was going to overtake him in a straight line and I don't think he saw me and pushed me into the barriers."
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But he didn't overtake in a straight line, he tried to overtake at the most awkward part of the entire track - a very fast kink.
I don't think De La Rosa should have expected it, but then again in a HRT I guess you should expect everything.

As I said, "racing incident" - Pedro should have been more aware of Romain..and Romain really should have used a few more brain cells.

The end result was both suffered, so its been resolved naturally.
 
Ardius
But he didn't overtake in a straight line, he tried to overtake at the most awkward part of the entire track - a very fast kink.
I don't think De La Rosa should have expected it, but then again in a HRT I guess you should expect everything.
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I can see Grosjean assumed too much, but when an HRT has a Lotus on his tail for long, he should be expecting a move, and yes, Pedro should make other drivers' life easier.

Hardly a "Grosjean is a clown" incident.
 
Why should Pedro make it easy for people? He's there competing too - he's in a battle with 2 Marussias and his own teammate. He has every right to set his own fast times as Grosjean does.
There is a point where Pedro must commit to his lines and attempt to take the fastest route around the track. Quite obviously this is going to mean getting in the way of faster cars...thats racing.

Personally I think its Romain's responsibility to work out that a HRT isn't going to be a problem to pass going into turn 1. Its both driver's responsibility to give each other space during the session though..within reason.

I think it is another "Grosjean" incident - not so much being a clown - but more not really thinking his way around the track and reacting badly to racing situations.
 
Ten-place penalty for Maldonado for missing a weight check - third reprimand of the year is why it's so big. Alonso up 1 place.
 
In this specific situation Pedro could (should IMO) have left room since it wouldn't hurt his lap. Not saying he should park it or go all the way in the dirty side.

But I concede Grosjean could have avoided the whole thing...

 
Gap that was always going to disappear = not a wise location to place your car. End of story really.
Sure Pedro could have seen it coming and given the gap, but he isn't required to do so, so he can't be blamed entirely for it.

Thats why I think its a racing incident - both drivers could have avoided it but both were going to go for it.

But I do think Grosjean should be more careful considering his record and considering he didn't need to do it. Its passing a HRT in qualifying for crying out loud! Not a pass to decide the championship!
 
Akira AC
This is yet another display of how good Massa can be against his hyped team-mate.

Expecting a WDC victory for Vettel, the guy deserves it, more than Alonso if I'm brutally honest.
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lol and you talk as though Alonso should never ever get beaten by Massa (a guys who's arguably been closer to a title than Vettel's team mate), and can never have an off weekend (like all top drivers do every now and then).

The only hype I see is you talking up how good Massa can be after a short string of strong performances (some of which were down to having different parts on his car), while ignoring how badly he has gotten pounded on the whole while they have been paired together.

If anything, Felipe recent resurgence (whether it's legit or not...people like to buy into these types of things at a moments notice) shows how fast he can be when things are working well for him, and just how consistantly competitive Fernando can be from year to year, despite not having anywhere near the ideal machinery (particularly from a handling stand point).
 
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gogatrs
Wouldn't that be nice!
A driver's championship decided by the driver's ability!
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Not the case since 20 years ago. Grip is more about the car itself, its setup and team decisions than what a driver can do.
Lets put it this way. A pro driver's skill against another cannot compensate a bad tire choice, and to be honest racing has always been more about cars than drivers.

Moreover, if anything changing climate conditions make the race a bit random.
 
avens
Not the case since 20 years ago. Grip is more about the car itself, its setup and team decisions than what a driver can do.
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That's pretty much why I'm not all that much into F1 anymore. GT racing, like GT3, for example, seems to provide a much more level playing field.
 
I don't really agree with that, not entirely anyway. Yes different cars are always going to perform differently but they're never usually that far apart and it still takes a driver to get the job done. So many people hate on Vettel because he always has the "best" car but whether that is true or not he still takes that "best" car and goes out there and gets it done. Not just anyone could do that.
 
SimonK
I don't really agree with that, not entirely anyway. Yes different cars are always going to perform differently but they're never usually that far apart and it still takes a driver to get the job done. So many people hate on Vettel because he always has the "best" car but whether that is true or not he still takes that "best" car and goes out there and gets it done. Not just anyone could do that.
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I agree with that one hundred percent. I've never been one to disregard the driver's performance.

But the difference between the best and the worst teams in F1 seems much, much more dramatic than in various GT3-based racing series, for example. Not necessarily a bad thing that this isn't the case in F1, though, I just happen to not like it as much. If this was GT3, we wouldn't be discussing who's got the fastest car nearly as much ;)
 
I was watching a re-run of the Q3 and saw a Ferrari going into the garage and a little detail caught my attention. There's some unusual writting on the DRS that can be seen from the rear. It's red lettering on white background and I can swear I read " ... .... ... Red Bull".

Can anyone confirm?
 
Here's me hoping this: Alonso rushes up magnificiently into P1 with what I hope is a 100% rain setup in the wet, like he did in Hungaroring 2006.



Vettel falls into 4th, and drops a position to Massa after an epic battle. Thus having Massa's comeback by helping his teammate get WDC and actually fight Alonso for the wins and poles next year.

But it won't happen.

Akira AC
This is yet another display of how good Massa can be against his hyped team-mate.
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Stop the nonsense and watch the video above. Massa HAS and CAN be good, but Alonso, hyped? 👎
 
CarBastard
I was watching a re-run of the Q3 and saw a Ferrari going into the garage and a little detail caught my attention. There's some unusual writting on the DRS that can be seen from the rear. It's red lettering on white background and I can swear I read " ... .... ... Red Bull".

Can anyone confirm?
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I've just rewound it. When Alonso was being pushed back in, the top rear wing element says "THE WORLD'S BEST BANK" on the back of it, red letters on the white background.
 
The Outlaw
If anything, Felipe recent resurgence (whether it's legit or not...people like to buy into these types of things at a moments notice) shows how fast he can be when things are working well for him, and just how consistantly competitive Fernando can be from year to year, despite not having anywhere near the ideal machinery (particularly from a handling stand point).
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Yet someone else trying to justify Alonso's lack of performance just to his car, while his team-mate do perform at the same pace of his competition.

Let us not forget about last race, Massa was pushed down a few positions back just for the sake of his teammate, and even then Massa managed to keep leaders race pace and ranked up more positions and places than his teammate, so no, it is not down to the car, Alonso has been really lame as a championship contender during the last few races, and Massa has demonstrated that is not down to his car, he is simply not up to that.

darkfinal
Stop the nonsense and watch the video above. Massa HAS and CAN be good, but Alonso, hyped? 👎
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Yeah, saw the video, I also saw this:



"Can you confirm you understood that message?"

True champions driving, right there.[/Sarcasm]
 
Also remember Alonso gets all the upgrades first and has had a very different car for many races this year. Only now in the last few races has Massa had the same car. I'm raking nothing away from Alonso but it is a fact he's had better machinery for a lot of this season
 
I think it would be fair to say that Massa outperformed Alonso last race and certainly appears to have found a second wind recently.

It should be said though that Alonso is amongst (if not) the most reliable to get the most out of the car on any given opportunity. You wouldn't necessarily say the same about the likes of Button Webber or (particularly) Massa despite their undeniable speed on occasion.

I think one thing you could say against Alonso, which isn't true for Hamilton or Vettel; Alonso has a second driver who is fundamentally committed to assisting him when required. This has been used a few times to help boost Alonso's performance relative to cars ability, although admittedly, it doesn't usually offer a significant advantage.

For reference, I wouldn't say that Alonso's ability to out-perform the car is overrated.
 

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