2014 Grand Prix du Canada

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why not use that stuff at Paul Ricard that kills your tires when you hit it?

that basically what I was trying to get at but I don't remember what it's called

Either way great example đź‘Ť

The idea of the run off is so if someone makes a mistake they can carry on racing. With your solution you just added about 5 safety cars to each race.

Problem is they're racing drivers, if they pull what Rosberg did which was essentially a lock up (which happens), but then the 'YOLO' (heh) esque on the power let's go for fastest lap of the GP...

That bs shouldn't be happening and thus if a driver wants to play dumb even though they know better they should be punished by the track for it in some form. Just like an over eager driver making a bold pass and then getting beached in a sand pit because they failed, it's their fault and maybe next GP they'll be more calculated than angsty driver.

Also I fail to see how there would be more safety cars since the wall of champions already creates that effect.
 
Last edited:
Just wondering, why don't they go back to the days of SAND TRAPS. That would solve all of these problems and would keep cars from plowing into walls at full speed. Now they have this stupid pavement runoff or grass at the majority of tracks that is far more dangerous.

Far more dangerous? I think you're misunderstanding what a sandtrap does to a car, especially a flat-bottom aero-effect car.

You want the car to stay on the ground, on a surface where the tyres grip. I don't think anyone who follows motorsport regularly really thinks sandtraps do that, they demonstrably don't; they persuade the car to be airborne and, if the car approaches laterally, can invert it very easily.


Exhibit A: Melbourne, head on to wall through gravel. Watch the behaviour of the car in the slomo.


Exhibit B: Melbourne, side-on spin to gravel.


EDIT: Didn't see the reply from @prisonermonkeys , as usual he put it much better than me :D
 
Because if a car hits a sand trap at an angle, it can dig in. And if it digs in, it can flip. And if it flips, a simple error become a serious crash. By using tarmac run-off, the driver has the chance to correct the error. And in the case of that chicane, a sand trap would be too small to slow the cars down before hitting the wall. It would only turn the driver into a passenger, guaranteeing an accident.

And before you suggest doing what Paul Ricard does and put tungsten into the tarmac to erode the tyres, you should know that there isn't enough tungsten in the world to do it.
I wasn't going to mention Paul Ricard thank you very much... no need to assume what I'm going to say.

Far more dangerous? I think you're misunderstanding what a sandtrap does to a car, especially a flat-bottom aero-effect car.

You want the car to stay on the ground, on a surface where the tyres grip. I don't think anyone who follows motorsport regularly really thinks sandtraps do that, they demonstrably don't; they persuade the car to be airborne and, if the car approaches laterally, can invert it very easily.


Exhibit A: Melbourne, head on to wall through gravel. Watch the behaviour of the car in the slomo.


Exhibit B: Melbourne, side-on spin to gravel.


EDIT: Didn't see the reply from @prisonermonkeys , as usual he put it much better than me :D


How about this, if the runoff area was all asphalt do you think Ralf would have walked walked away? So in some instances a sand trap does help.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How about this, if the runoff area was all asphalt do you think Ralf would have walked walked away? So in some instances a sand trap does help.


Yes, absolutely. he was on the brakes all the way in and therefore would have slowed more quickly if his braking wheels had been on asphalt rather than sand/gravel. Physics, dude, tyres can not chemically react with gravel and would rather bounce away from it.

This crash was one of the reasons that tarmac was investigated iirc, on tarmac he would most likely not have hit the wall at all, he was going comparatively slowly when he reached it over the gravel.
 
Yes, of course, he was on the brakes all the way in and therefore would have slowed more quickly if his braking wheels had been on asphalt rather than sand/gravel. Physics, dude, tyres can not chemically react with gravel and would rather bounce away from it.
Ok fine, screw sand traps, absolutely worthless pieces of garbage.
 
Hehe, sarcasm potentially detected but I'm distracted by your avatar which appears to show my ex-wife... :D
No, no sarcasm at all.
image.jpg

That's my new opinion of sandtraps thanks to you and prisoner monkeys education. I appreciate the wonderful complement....
 
Mixed feelings for the race, being a Hamilton fan. He was right in there with a shot to reclaim the championship lead but instead he's fallen a few wins away from the top spot, and that's only if he can consistently beat his stellar team mate to the top of the podium over the next few races. But on the other hand, that was one hell of a race right from the first lap! Such a close race with quite a few drivers in with a chance for a podium spot. I was really hoping for Massa's tyres to hold together there before his final stop but, I guess, Ricciardo taking his first win is good enough! He's been driving fantastically all season, I'm not surprised that he's taken his first race this season (not even surprised that he took it before Vettel got one this season), I am surprised it happened this "early" in the season and for the Mercedes troubles which ultimately gave way for that breakthrough win. So, I suppose even though the driver I'm backing didn't win, everything worked out somewhat nicely in the end.

Now another thing, who the hell was the race director and what was he even doing!? Many times throughout the race I saw what looked like a great setup for a pass or a good battle but instead of following the action, we got shots of the crowd or irrelevant footage of a driver in the pits. God damn...
 
Now another thing, who the hell was the race director and what was he even doing!? Many times throughout the race I saw what looked like a great setup for a pass or a good battle but instead of following the action, we got shots of the crowd or irrelevant footage of a driver in the pits. God damn...

I think he is the same for every race besides Monaco and Suzuka.
 
Maybe putting bump strips in the very center or gravel or grass even.

Sorry for the late reply, I think the corner is unique since you're carrying a lot of speed and is in a DRS zone not only but also it's a heavy braking zone, so the problem is you need something to slow the cars just enough to not get an advantage but not damage the cars or unsettle them, as well as not slowing the cars that much to ruin battles.

I can't see a solution expect whoever takes the shortcut should slow down by themselves on the following straight.
 
You could just put a speed bump chicane in the middle.

If in the middle of the run off area though the bumps could again damage and send the cars / debris airborne. I get why they have put the bump all along the edge of area, and similarly why they left a cars width at the end of the bump to stop floors getting damaged. All was needed though was a way to stop cars driving through at full throttle like Rosberg did by putting something at the opening where the cars rejoin. Just a small polystyrene chicane would have slowed Rosberg sufficiently, or another small bump that he would have to navigate. It is unlikely that a crash would result in a car ending up at that corner of the run off area.
 
I know much of the focus is on the crash but did we ever find out what happened to the Mercedes and why both cars were affected at exactly the same time? Also why Lewis retired?
 
If in the middle of the run off area though the bumps could again damage and send the cars / debris airborne. I get why they have put the bump all along the edge of area, and similarly why they left a cars width at the end of the bump to stop floors getting damaged. All was needed though was a way to stop cars driving through at full throttle like Rosberg did by putting something at the opening where the cars rejoin. Just a small polystyrene chicane would have slowed Rosberg sufficiently, or another small bump that he would have to navigate. It is unlikely that a crash would result in a car ending up at that corner of the run off area.

Another bump that he would have to navigate is what I was getting at :)
 
I know much of the focus is on the crash but did we ever find out what happened to the Mercedes and why both cars were affected at exactly the same time? Also why Lewis retired?
It's believed that the MGU-K units failed. This robbed the cars of the braking assistance that comes with the energy harvesting process, which the teams rely on so extensively that they fit smaller brake calipers - with four pistons instead of six - and combined with the heavy braking of the circuit, the cars burned through their brakes.
 
It just gets better... I wonder how long it will be before the FIA relax the rules on the teams because of constant penalties for everyone.

What the teams should of done, is all made an agreement to use a new engine each race, that way the penalties would cancel each other out :P
 
If in the middle of the run off area though the bumps could again damage and send the cars / debris airborne. I get why they have put the bump all along the edge of area, and similarly why they left a cars width at the end of the bump to stop floors getting damaged. All was needed though was a way to stop cars driving through at full throttle like Rosberg did by putting something at the opening where the cars rejoin. Just a small polystyrene chicane would have slowed Rosberg sufficiently, or another small bump that he would have to navigate. It is unlikely that a crash would result in a car ending up at that corner of the run off area.

Indeed. If a car is in absolute trouble/out of control they can smash through the polystyene and have no damage, otherwise they should slow down and go around it, losing time. If you make a mistake, you should lose time, there should be no opportunity to gain it otherwise people are going to exploit the 2 warnings rule.
 
Only Perez was penalized????? WTF!?!?!?! 🤬

Pfff... whatever FIA...

I used to like you Massa... USED...
 
That crash was nuts and Vettel was lucky he was just a meter behind if that.

Only Perez was penalized????? WTF!?!?!?! 🤬

Pfff... whatever FIA...

I used to like you Massa... USED...

From the replays.

It does appear that he turned left at the last second.
 

Attachments

  • capture_20140610_010904.jpg
    capture_20140610_010904.jpg
    100.3 KB · Views: 10
Thank god perez was penalized, what a stupid move he did... he was doing an excellent race and he **cked it on the final. Unlucky Massa
 
Ok, my few quick notes:

Driver of the race - I'm having a hard time to decide between Ricciardo and Rosberg. Against Ricciardo the lack of a "killer" instinct to do the impossible overtake on Perez (something guys like Vettel and Alonso have). Against Rosberg that one mistake at the chicane. In all other aspects of this race they did amazing jobs, with a slight advantage to Rosberg, the way he got his car to the end with severely weakened rear brakes and a lot less power is awe inspiring.

Feel good moment - Ricciardo's first win in Formula 1. May he still grow as a driver and may he be a future World Champion, I think he has it in him.

Feel bad moment - Massa/Perez crash. Although I never had any doubt the blame for that crash was entirely Checo's, desperately (and too late) trying to block Massa and to keep 4th, I felt for both of them, considering their great races up to that point and what a shame it was that both ended that way.

Hot story - Rosberg short cutting the chicane and the "no penalty" decision - This one is difficult to judge. Of course Rosberg went out of the track and in doing it he gained an advantage. Not in his racing position, because Hamilton wasn't even trying to overtake him, but in the "time" he gained. That said, and trying to use logic, reason, and my own F1 experience as a faithful viewer for decades now, I think the stewards reached the right decision. In a way, what happened there was similar to a famous Spa 2009/Raikkonen episode where he went wide in the hairpin, therefore was able to keep a good speed onto the Radillon, up Kemmel straight and because of it managed to overtake Kubica (I think). It was a dodgy move (as Rosberg's is) but because his usage of the out of track portion wasn't considered deliberate, there was no consequence (not even a warning).

The thing is, unlike Raikkonen, Rosberg didn't gain a spot. All we can say is that he didn't lose one. But we can't expect a driver that makes a mistake and goes off track to drive like a granny after. He floored it? Of course he did, as any other race driver would have, including Hamilton.

All this to say that although I understand the frustration felt by Hamilton fans, I also don't think it is fair to call Rosberg a cheater or to call for a harsher penalty for that incident than the "this was your last warning" decision by the stewards.

For those that didn't see / don't remember that Kimi moment, here the video:




To end, just two more paragraphs, to say:

Ferrari ... what a depressing performance.

Hamilton ... keep your cool, face the fact your team mate is a lot tougher than everyone thought he was, and a lot faster than usually credited, and act accordingly, raising your own game so you can be champion as you wish.
Because you can.
As can he.

(I doubt Lewis reads gtplanet, but you never know :D )
 
@Hun200kmh , it's a myth that nothing happened to Nico... corner cuts are cumulative in every race, he received his final warning for this. It's just that he hadn't had enough cuts to take the penalty.

I also heard from someone "in the business" today that some teams may appeal against Perez's 5-place ban and ask for a race ban. If so they won't get it but they may prompt the FIA to revisit the steward's decision.

Supposedly his telemetry shows a clear early brake-and-turn across Massa's path while the camera shows Perez watching Massa's approach in the mirror. If so you can see why drivers would have had enough of this kind of stuff... that was nearly a big aeroplane accident.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back