2014 NASCAR Thread

[cnd01]

when you have nothing left to really say, other than wanting to have the last word for ego sake.

Look in the mirror

L
What do you mean by equally distribute tracks for one?

I mean make the Chase where it has an equal distribution of the various track lengths run in the first 26. For starters, it needs a road course. Less 1 and 1/2 mile tracks too.

Time and time again in this thread you've been the one talking about how the chase especially 2014 form is bad, hence why I'm sure people will agree they think you dislike it or wish to see it gone, and your current statement loosely implies it without directly saying it.

I have said multiple times that I don't want the chase straight out.

Also how does the entire season not count, yet again?

Because a driver can be hundreds of points back with 10 races to go with no business competing for a championship and still win it with the chase

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Look in the mirror

For what? Yeah I have an ego, but that's because I'm right most of the time I post something here and others get my point as @RACECAR and @MustangRyan did. Which is a contrast to your ego which is just to argue another day even if you are stretching the facts and now trying to put space between you and that fact now. Do a better job and I wont be so blunt it's a very simple concept.

I mean make the Chase where it has an equal distribution of the various track lengths run in the first 26. For starters, it needs a road course. Less 1 and 1/2 mile tracks too.

Well everyone already agrees with you on that front, but I doubt a road course is going to really change the field. I'd say through in Bristol with Martinsville already there and you would probably get more of the effect your looking for.

I have said multiple times that I don't want the chase straight out.

Yeah that's the point, so already you're going to have a bias against this seasons rule change instead of just watching it first like the rest of us to see how it does. It's great to not like it but do try to play Hotline Psychic, Tallulah by saying that whoever wins is going to win off dumb luck. No whoever wins will do so because they're working hard in the first 26 races and then even more so in the last ten. You can clearly see the competition this year has raised their game more so in past chase seasons.

Because a driver can be hundreds of points back with 10 races to go with no business competing for a championship and still win it with the chase

How do they have no business in the championship? Currently Paul Menard is tenth and pulled those machines into the top 10 and sometimes top 5 consistently enough and silently (not much media storm) to have a chance. The guy below him is Harvick, who if you don't think should be in the chase really then I don't know what to tell you. I don't know anyone here who would agree that he doesn't other than your standards as seen now, and Harvick anti-fans.

 

[cnd01]

that's because I'm right most of the time I post something

Opinions are always right to the person posting them

Well everyone already agrees with you on that front, but I doubt a road course is going to really change the field. I'd say through in Bristol with Martinsville already there and you would probably get more of the effect your looking for.

I'd just like to see more road period, but especially one in the chase

Yeah that's the point, so already you're going to have a bias against this seasons rule change instead of just watching it first like the rest of us to see how it does. It's great to not like it but do try to play Hotline Psychic, Tallulah by saying that whoever wins is going to win off dumb luck. No whoever wins will do so because they're working hard in the first 26 races and then even more so in the last ten. You can clearly see the competition this year has raised their game more so in past chase seasons.

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to say that I am. Done it before, and it's no skin off my back to say that I'm pleasantly surprised.

How do they have no business in the championship? Currently Paul Menard is tenth and pulled those machines into the top 10 and sometimes top 5 consistently enough and silently (not much media storm) to have a chance. The guy below him is Harvick, who if you don't think should be in the chase really then I don't know what to tell you. I don't know anyone here who would agree that he doesn't other than your standards as seen now, and Harvick anti-fans.

Because there shouldn't be a chase in the first place in my opinion. While Menard has been very consistent and Harvick has been really fast at times, they have no business being set closer to guys like Gordon, Kenseth, and Johnson who've been both fast and consistent for 26 races and have built a lead just from solid runs week in and week out

 

[MustangRyan]

Look in the mirror


I mean make the Chase where it has an equal distribution of the various track lengths run in the first 26. For starters, it needs a road course. Less 1 and 1/2 mile tracks too.

I have said multiple times that I don't want the chase straight out.

Because a driver can be hundreds of points back with 10 races to go with no business competing for a championship and still win it with the chase

The days of Dale Earnhardt clinching championships just by starting the race at Rockingham were not better. The Chase keeps the racing exciting, as Earnhardt was usually coasting with ten races to go, not needing to race hard for anything, other than a "good points day."

Fans love spending their hard earned money just to see a guy ride around trying to avoid wrecking or blowing up. [/sarcasm]

 

[cnd01]

The days of Dale Earnhardt clinching championships just by starting the race at Rockingham were not better. The Chase keeps the racing exciting, as Earnhardt was usually coasting with ten races to go, not needing to race hard for anything, other than a "good points day."

Fans love spending their hard earned money just to see a guy ride around trying to avoid wrecking or blowing up. [/sarcasm]

Those are definitely benefits of this system. As a fan, I'd want it to be close; however, if a driver has earned that much of a lead, I think that should be rewarded rather than who does the best the last 10

 

[MustangRyan]

As a driver, I would want to race to win every single weekend. This is the first points system that has ever truly encouraged that mindset. Good points days are for losers.

Now, if NASCAR and the tracks would work on redistributing the weekly race purse payouts to pay a lot more to win the race, we would really get to see better racing.

 

[cnd01]

As a driver, I would want to race to win every single weekend. This is the first points system that has ever truly encouraged that mindset. Good points days are for losers.

Now, if NASCAR and the tracks would work on redistributing the weekly race purse payouts to pay a lot more to win the race, we would really get to see better racing.

I think shortening the races will make the races better as well. The purse needs to be the way it is for the smaller teams to be able to turn a half decent profit because business. I like the mentality of going for it every race, but that does bring negative consequences. I think we need more drivers like Kyle Busch who hate finishing 2nd. That'll help the sport

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Opinions are always right to the person posting them

What opinion, if I were merely talking about that I'd agree. But one only has to look just a few short posts back to see you were wrong about 2006 and BK's 2012 Championship. You were called out on it by not just me and now you're just going to grasp at straws to ride this out. What was provided were facts. This little tirade your on with me now is opinion.

I'd just like to see more road period, but especially one in the chase

Noted, and agreed. The end.

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first one to say that I am. Done it before, and it's no skin off my back to say that I'm pleasantly surprised.

No you don't you were proven wrong on your knowledge of international racing on various threads to the point you basically gave up, and no reside mainly here and the Tudor thread. In all those times proven wrong even here you've hardly ever tried to admit it. Look I don't see what being wrong on the internet or agreeing with others is so hard to do.

Because there shouldn't be a chase in the first place in my opinion. While Menard has been very consistent and Harvick has been really fast at times, they have no business being set closer to guys like Gordon, Kenseth, and Johnson who've been both fast and consistent for 26 races and have built a lead just from solid runs week in and week out

Sure they do, Gordon won his race and has basically stayed at the top because of keeping his nose clean to run and finish in the top ten. His better driving team mates Johnson and Earnhardt Jr. are only behind him due to DNFs they have gained but have been more consistent at finishing toward the top than him. Harvick has been far faster and better than Gordon most of the season and "bad luck" as you called it has kept him out of it. Just like it took Brad forever to get where he was due to early season woes. So this bad luck that is beyond their control is reset to allow them a run, I mean you didn't seem to have issue with it when Stewart won in 2011 who was 10th coming into the chase.

So what is troubling to me is this double standard of you wanting to have driver's not run for solid points only which Gordon and crew mainly do. Yet you do want them to run hard which you think the chase doesn't provide. So I don't understand how you can be happy with both if Jeff isn't running hard and is just doing enough for the chase.

Though most drivers are probably running as hard as possible to get to the top 16 one way or another before the cut off and then running even harder after that to win what they were trying to get into those other 26 races.

 

[MustangRyan]

I think shortening the races will make the races better as well. The purse needs to be the way it is for the smaller teams to be able to turn a half decent profit because business. I like the mentality of going for it every race, but that does bring negative consequences. I think we need more drivers like Kyle Busch who hate finishing 2nd. That'll help the sport

I personally don't care if forty-three teams make a decent profit. I would rather see thirty to thirty-five highly competitive cars racing for more money, and just do away with the ten to twelve backmarkers that are just riding around each week. Let them join the Nationwide Series.

With the new TV deal coming next season, paying out money should never be a problem again.

Of course, NASCAR (read as: France, Brian) is going to try to pocket as much of that money as possible, instead of paying the money forward to track operators, team owners, and drivers in all three national series.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I personally don't care if forty-three teams make a decent profit. I would rather see thirty to thirty-five highly competitive cars racing for more money, and just do away with the ten to twelve backmarkers that are just riding around each week. Let them join the Nationwide Series.

With the new TV deal coming next season, paying out money should never be a problem again.

Of course, NASCAR (read as: France, Brian) is going to try to pocket as much of that money as possible, instead of paying the money forward to track operators, team owners, and drivers in all three national series.

Like Bernie

 

[cnd01]

I personally don't care if forty-three teams make a decent profit. I would rather see thirty to thirty-five highly competitive cars racing for more money, and just do away with the ten to twelve backmarkers that are just riding around each week. Let them join the Nationwide Series.

With the new TV deal coming next season, paying out money should never be a problem again.

Of course, NASCAR (read as: France, Brian) is going to try to pocket as much of that money as possible, instead of paying the money forward to track operators, team owners, and drivers in all three national series.

I'd like to see the costs cut so there could be 43 competitive cars lol

NASCAR will squeeze every dime they can get for themselves when it comes to tv rights. France is a shrewd fellow

 

[Ganon83]

According to Pockrass, the new TV money is spread out like this:
820 million per year for 10 years.
10% to NASCAR
25% to teams/drivers via the race purse
65% to track owners*
*Of 36 Cup races, here are the number of races by the five Sprint Cup track owners:
19- ISC (AKA Publicly Traded NASCAR company) (35.51% roughly of the total, which means the France Family is getting around 40% of this TV deal in total)
12- SMI (Bruton Smith) (21.5% of the total)
2- Dover Motorsports (Dover) (3.611% roughly)
2- Mattco Inc. AKA the Mattioli Family (Pocono) (3.611% roughly)
1- Hulman AKA the George Family (Indianapolis) (1.806% roughly)
The track data is flawed however, because I can't calculate for the Nationwide series part of the deal. The schedule could be different for next year, and I doubt the Nationwide track owners are getting as much money as Cup does.
The problem with this is that now track owners don't lose much sleep over night about bad turnout for events, at the expense of the teams not getting as much as they should. Yes the owners are multi millionaires, but for smaller teams, it's ridiculous that NASCAR has had three completely different cars in 10 years, different rules packages every year, and the new money can't cover the costs. There's a good reason why there are no new big teams within the last ten years, with the notable exceptions of MWR (Found a big money backer in Robert Kauffman) and SHR (Freakin Tony Stewart owns half the team now). You could make the argument too that these teams simply replaced DEI and Evernham, but DEI was ran into the ground and so was Evernham (By Gillete).

 

[cnd01]

Idk if this is already in place, but they need to put a cost cap on the truck and nationwide series to help them out on cutting costs. All these new cars coming out left, right, and center for the new series recently haven't helped either. Hopefully, that team business alliance is working on helping out the small guys in that case

 

[RACECAR]

Idk if this is already in place, but they need to put a cost cap on the truck and nationwide series to help them out on cutting costs. All these new cars coming out left, right, and center for the new series recently haven't helped either. Hopefully, that team business alliance is working on helping out the small guys in that case

What...the hell...are you talking about? These new cars aren't coming out "left and Right" as you put it. The new Cup cars only came out in 2013 while 2014 is first season for the new trucks and that's it, only two new vehicles. The Nationwide cars have been the same since 2011, the only difference being the Impalas have been replaced with Camaro bodies. They aren't just chucking cars as frequently as you seem to make it out.

 

[cnd01]

What...the hell...are you talking about? These new cars aren't coming out "left and Right" as you put it. The new Cup cars only came out in 2013 while 2014 is first season for the new trucks and that's it, only two new vehicles. They aren't just chucking cars as frequently as you seem to make it out.

I mean the new Nationwide car was only a few years ago also. The COT era was very short by comparison to the previous generations of cars being only 5 years. The new truck for this year as well. Every NASCAR team has had to update their chassis or build new ones to the new specs in the past 3 or 4 years. Since the COT era began, there's not been more than 2 or 3 consecutive years without a new car being released for one of the series. That's very frequent given how much space has been between updates in the past. I get that there's the ability to just modify the existing chassis, but to be competitive, the teams pretty much have to buy new ones. Those upgrades aren't cheap

 

[RACECAR]

I mean the new Nationwide car was only a few years ago also. The COT era was very short by comparison to the previous generations of cars being only 5 years. The new truck for this year as well. Every NASCAR team has had to update their chassis or build new ones to the new specs in the past 3 or 4 years. Since the COT era began, there's not been more than 2 or 3 consecutive years without a new car being released for one of the series. That's very frequent given how much space has been between updates in the past. I get that there's the ability to just modify the existing chassis, but to be competitive, the teams pretty much have to buy new ones. Those upgrades aren't cheap

SO which one is it?


Also, the COT replaced the old car four years before the Nationwide car was replaced (and even longer before the Gen 6 car replaced it). Its only recently that new cars have been introduced consecutively (2013 for cup cars and 2014 for Trucks). You're really blowing this out of proportion more so then it actually is, making it seem as if the lower series are in some sort of financial trouble.

 

[Ganon83]

They are. Have you not seen how bad most of the truck field is now? 27 truck fields and Jennifer Jo Cobb in the top 15 in points.
Meanwhile Nationwide is effectively Cup Jr. this year. 11 races this year have been won by Cup drivers, many times with them sweeping the top 5. Even though there are full fields in Nationwide for the most part, they also have a lot more S&Ps than any other series. The points leader has only led 104 laps, while Kyle Busch has almost exactly 7 times that.

 

[RACECAR]

They are. Have you not seen how bad most of the truck field is now? 27 truck fields and Jennifer Jo Cobb in the top 15 in points.

My point is, he seems to be suggesting that these new vehicles are what is putting these series in the shape that they are in when they were already heading that way. Does no one remember the amount of jobs lost with all the CUp team mergers? A lot of Nationwide teams struggled around that same time period and it was also happening with the Trucks. Quote frankly, I don't think getting new cars are to blame when this issue began way before both series got new vehicles.

Meanwhile Nationwide is effectively Cup Jr. this year. 11 races this year have been won by Cup drivers, many times with them sweeping the top 5. Even though there are full fields in Nationwide for the most part, they also have a lot more S&Ps than any other series. The points leader has only led 104 laps, while Kyle Busch has almost exactly 7 times that.

Name me a year since 2006 when it hasn't been Cup Jr. Does no one remember Cup drivers driving full time in Nationwide? Remember when Kevin was taking wins for both his own team AND RCR? When Mark Martin was driving "Pork chop"? I remember those vaguely. Hell, I remember one of the 2006 Charlotte races when almost half the field were cup drivers. Trust me, it was a lot worse years before, the most cup drivers these races manage is five when before, it was damn near 8-12 at most companion events.

 

[Ganon83]

My point is, he seems to be suggesting that these new vehicles are what is putting these series in the shape that they are in when they were already heading that way. Does no one remember the amount of jobs lost with all the CUp team mergers? A lot of Nationwide teams struggled around that same time period and it was also happening with the Trucks. Quote frankly, I don't think getting new cars are to blame when this issue began way before both series got new vehicles.
Name me a year since 2006 when it hasn't been Cup Jr. Does no one remember Cup drivers driving full time in Nationwide? Remember when Kevin was taking wins for both his own team AND RCR? When Mark Martin was driving "Pork chop"? I remember those vaguely. Hell, I remember one of the 2006 Charlotte races when almost half the field were cup drivers. Trust me, it was a lot worse years before, the most cup drivers these races manage is five when before, it was damn near 8-12 at most companion events.

To be honest the reason why the Trucks are so bad this year is because Toyota is the only make who is putting big money into it.
2012. Yes there were still a majority of Cup winners but it was right around 50-50, and Cup drivers didn't have a monopoly in the top 5 every week. The old way before 2011 was a much different era and the sport paid a price, the peak of which was Stephen Liecht winning the 2012 ROTY, Andy Lally winning the 2011 ROTY, and Kevin Conway winning the 2010 ROTY. There were effectively no new names, the ones that were were either transplants from other series of racing such as Lally or bad drivers in bad equipment.

 

[Pete05]

So if this is the last race to be broadcasted by TNT, who's doing the next race?

 

[RACECAR]

To be honest the reason why the Trucks are so bad this year is because Toyota is the only make who is putting big money into it.

And Chevy Hasn't? I'm convinced Ford hasn't because when the only team you have is literally the one that wins once a blue moon despite help from a cup team, its not really worth investing into. At least Turner Had competitive Trucks from the moment they came in Hendrick power in all. Ok so Toyota has an edge with the new Truck this year, its only this year. Besides, Kinda helps when they are the manufacterer with the most winning teams under its name (KBM, Thorsport, Red Horse).

2012. Yes there were still a majority of Cup winners but it was right around 50-50, and Cup drivers didn't have a monopoly in the top 5 every week. The old way before 2011 was a much different era and the sport paid a price, the peak of which was Stephen Liecht winning the 2012 ROTY, Andy Lally winning the 2011 ROTY, and Kevin Conway winning the 2010 ROTY. There were effectively no new names, the ones that were were either transplants from other series of racing such as Lally or bad drivers in bad equipment.

Again though, this was happening in 2008, 2009 and 2010 when Cup drivers were driving full time and stealing maximum points full stop.

So if this is the last race to be broadcasted by TNT, who's doing the next race?

ESPN for the rest of the year. They'll finish out their final season as well covering NASCAR.

 

[Pete05]

And Chevy Hasn't? I'm convinced Ford hasn't because when the only team you have is literally the one that wins once a blue moon despite help from a cup team, its not really worth investing into. At least Turner Had competitive Trucks from the moment they came in Hendrick power in all. Ok so Toyota has an edge with the new Truck this year, its only this year. Besides, Kinda helps when they are the manufacterer with the most winning teams under its name (KBM, Thorsport, Red Horse).



Again though, this was happening in 2008, 2009 and 2010 when Cup drivers were driving full time and stealing maximum points full stop.



ESPN for the rest of the year. They'll finish out their final season as well covering NASCAR.

Ok. No more TNT, no more ESPN. Big changes in NASCAR TV land. I guess FOX are still in for their share. It all comes through FOX here in Australia. We're blessed with a FOX monopoly if you want cable.
What's the new TVpackage Mike Helton was talking about earlier?

 

[RACECAR]

Essentially, the NASCAR Coverage for 2015 is now squarely between two family of Networks for the US: Fox Sports (Fox and Fox Sports 1) and NBC Sports (NBC & NBCSN).

 

[The Bman]

Can people stop whining about Goodyear having poor tire compounds? NASCAR allowed the teams to run lower tire pressures, that's why so many tires get flat or blow. TNT even said in the pre-race that they would be running lower pressures in the left-rear and that's where Biffle and Johnson's tire failures were.

 

[Earth]

Sorry but Im still going to whine about it

 

[Ganon83]

And Chevy Hasn't? I'm convinced Ford hasn't because when the only team you have is literally the one that wins once a blue moon despite help from a cup team, its not really worth investing into. At least Turner Had competitive Trucks from the moment they came in Hendrick power in all. Ok so Toyota has an edge with the new Truck this year, its only this year. Besides, Kinda helps when they are the manufacterer with the most winning teams under its name (KBM, Thorsport, Red Horse).

Chevy- Two Turner Scott trucks and the 20/9 (Who suck unless a Cup driver is in it)
Ford- Two BKR trucks
Toyota- KBR, Red Horse, Thorsport.
Everybody else is running old equipment, or equipment that sucks and isn't fully supported by the make.

 

[The Bman]

Oh no, TNT's signature audio screw-ups have returned. Thank god ESPN will take over coverage for the rest of the season.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The current top four are the same drivers that finished in the top four in yesterday's Nationwide race. BK is currently doing what he did yesterday- dominating the race.

 

[The Bman]

TNT talking about Jeff Burton and it took them 20 seconds to realize they were showing Ryan Newman.

 

[meek]

His better driving team mates Johnson and Earnhardt Jr

Dale Jr better than Gordon? Haha good one! Not true now, not true ever... Gordon has 89 wins in 744 races (12%) Dale Jr 21 in 524 races (4%).

Johnson and Earnhardt Jr. are only behind him due to DNFs they have gained but have been more consistent at finishing toward the top than him.

JJ and Dale Jr have one DNF each this year (last week at Daytona for JJ, Texas in April for Jr).
Gordon has none but his Talladega result is basically a DNF (only scored 6 points)...

Johnson and Earnhardt Jr. have been more consistent at finishing toward the top than him.

despite #48 and #88 winning more races, they are substantially behind #24 in points (-27 and -55), because Gordon has been the most consistent one: 13 top 10's, 17 top 20's.
Dale has 12 & 15. JJ 12 & 13...

Harvick has been far faster and better than Gordon most of the season and "bad luck" as you called it has kept him out of it. Just like it took Brad forever to get where he was due to early season woes. So this bad luck that is beyond their control is reset to allow them a run, I mean you didn't seem to have issue with it when Stewart won in 2011 who was 10th coming into the chase.

bad luck is part of racing. You just don't give the title to the fastest car -Harvick's this year most definitely- they have to race for it!
Essentially they're giving people that aren't deserving of it (drivers ranked 2-16 + drivers ranked 17-30 who won races) another chance with the Chase system, when they should be waiting for the next year!

The playoff/tournament system works in NFL/NHL/MLB/NBA because some teams barely meet each other during the regular season, doesn't apply in racing.
I kinda like the elimination system though (let's see how it works out, if JJ is an early exit I'll love it lol) so maybe have the top 4 or 5 drivers racing in some form of it for the title, provided they're within, Idk, 100 points of leader at a certain point in the schedule?
or keep more points (or all of them!) from the regular season in the Chase count to reward the consistent drivers?

Like Bernie

there's no Chase system in F1, the best driver throughout the whole season wins the Championship

Those are definitely benefits of this system. As a fan, I'd want it to be close; however, if a driver has earned that much of a lead, I think that should be rewarded rather than who does the best the last 10

Matt Kenseth rule buddy... won the championship in 2003 by being the most regular, had only one win while Newman had 7 or 8.
NASCAR deemed him not worthy enough and came up with the stupid Chase system the following year, giving way to the Jimme Johnson undue (IMHO, he'd have only 4 titles if we were still using old system) reign.