2014 NASCAR Thread

[Pete05]

NASCAR should take Morgan Shepherd's licence off him and cut it up in front of his wrinkled face.

You're a has been ol man & are way past your use by date.

Take up driving the bus for the retirement village!

 

[Earth]

I know there is a minimum age in NASCAR there needs to be a maximum age too. I'd say no one 60 or older

 

[cnd01]

I know there is a minimum age in NASCAR there needs to be a maximum age too. I'd say no one 60 or older

He should re-badge his Chevy to a Buick!

 

[The Bman]

He should re-badge his Chevy to a Buick!

Oldsmobile.

 

[cnd01]

Oldsmobile.

Studebaker

 

[GTPorsche]

"Let's see what happened"

Replays show absolutely nothing.

 

[Chqr]

Green White Chequer

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Studebaker

Duesenberg

And Gordon runs out of gas. What a surprise.

 

[Gerarghini]

GOD 🤬 DAMMIT GORDON

 

[The Bman]

There goes Gordon, out of fuel. Not like it matters much considering he's (theoretically) locked into the Chase anyways.

 

[Cale]

WOOOOOOO

 

[Johnny1996]

Evgeni Malkin jersey in the background on that TBS commercial!

Okay, this is the NASCAR thread. We talk NASCAR here, not hockey.

Brad K wins an otherwise boring race for me. Not happy.

But good for Brad. 👍

 

[Müle]

I really hope David Ragan didn't do what it appears he may have done.

Because a lot of people are going to be wanting his head now.

 

[GTPorsche]

I don't think Ragan was involved in that at all. Doesn't help that TNT is 🤬 at race coverage.

 

[The Bman]

Not to sound oblivious but what did Ragan do?

 

[GTPorsche]

Not to sound oblivious but what did Ragan do?

Poor showing by TNT replays, but it looked like he had caused Allgaier to wreck, which brought out the caution.

I'm guessing Gordon fans are mad because Jeff ran out of fuel during that caution... I can't see how anyone would be legitimately mad because it didn't effect the outcome of the race since Brad still won.

 

[iRevelationz]

Not to sound oblivious but what did Ragan do?

From what little I saw, I'd put it together that he went into turn three under Allgaier, got loose/washed up into him, which sent the latter spinning.

At least that's what I see happening from the angles TNT had.

 

[GTPorsche]

Also, just found out that Logano was wrecked from the lead by Shepard. Only caught the last 30 laps of the race.

 

[meek]

Didn't miss much save for JJ's tire troubles @GTPorsche, the race was as boring as Kentucky's, the guys running out of fuel at the end was the high point of the day...

Is Shepherd simply getting too old or did he just ram Logano on purpose? did Logano cut him off one of the 5 10 15 times he lapped #33 earlier?

Why was Johnson the only one to run into tires troubles, so early too?
Is he to be believed when he says "wasn't tire pressures" ?
ETA: minimum recommended inflation was just 12psi on the left side, he blew his left rear twice

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Dale Jr better than Gordon? Haha good one! Not true now, not true ever... Gordon has 89 wins in 744 races (12%) Dale Jr 21 in 524 races (4%).

Well considering one has had much more time to make those stats than the other, I guess you'll say Harvick is also not better than Gordon in current form because he only has 25 wins in his career...

If you merely think overall stats of a career is indicative of how good a driver is each season, then you clearly don't know how by season analysis work for one, and may have a bias toward a driver.

That's the problem you seem to miss and have missed any time you try to prove one of us wrong, you can't read context. I said in this season Junior and JJ are actually better than Gordon who hasn't had nearly the bad luck of his team mates.

-JJ has 6 top 5 which is equal to Gordon the difference here is the average where Gordon finishes 2.6 when in the top 5 JJ is more likely to avg 2.1

-JJ has 12 top 10s to Gordon's 13, here JJ's avg is 4.7 to Gordon's 5.07 when finishing in the top ten. However to make it more fair I dropped Gordon's worst top ten finish to equal 12 v 12 between the two. That avg came out to be JJ 4.7 still obviously to a Gordon 4.7 as well thus being equal.

-Junior has 9 top 5 vs Gordon's 6. Which is 2.6 for both Gordon and Junior, but if we equal the data and drop the worst 3 for Junior to make it 6 v 6 we get a 1.8 for Junior and a 2.6 for Gordon.

- Junior has 13 top tens like Gordon, and his avg (Juniors) is 4.3 while Gordon has a 5.0.

-----
So why is Gordon ahead while his two team mates in 2nd and 3rd are not see below:

JJ and Dale Jr have one DNF each this year (last week at Daytona for JJ, Texas in April for Jr).
Gordon has none but his Talladega result is basically a DNF (only scored 6 points)...

-Bristol Junior found trouble with brakes and ended up finishing a few laps down. Speculated Brake rotor being warped was given by HMS.

-Talledega bad call be Junior and team caused him to finish 26th as wrecks kept falling.

-Texas wreck on lap 14 DNF

- Coca-Cola 600 engine trouble for Junior have the crew adjust his water pressure to ensure he can finish the race. 19th

-JJ had a flat tire while leading in California with under ten laps to go, causes him to finish 24th

-JJ found trouble in Talledega as well and got caught up in a wreck and to be honest that was a bad race for the top 7 in points none of them finished in the top 20 as you put it or more importantly top 10

-JJ Richmond April Race he had a tire issue that ruined his day and never came back from it.

-JJ Daytona wrecked DNF

-JJ NH wrecked DNF, which was already bad due to unscheduled pitstop due to first flat tire, and then blowing second tire and wrecking.

-----
Gordon's major issues to date

-Talledega wreck

-NH Gordon ran out of fuel due to bad call.

Not sure if GT6 is the only place you learned about NASCAR (at this point it seems to be), but a DNF isn't the only quantifiable reason for "bad luck" or bad results, drivers do tend to continue a race for the points even if they finish in 32nd. You may find it reasonable to hang it up but that's not how the real world works.

despite #48 and #88 winning more races, they are substantially behind #24 in points (-27 and -55), because Gordon has been the most consistent one: 13 top 10's, 17 top 20's.
Dale has 12 & 15. JJ 12 & 13...

We just demonstrated a page ago how a driver can come back from a 139 point deficit to win the chase (due to other circumstances of course). I don't get how 27 and 55 is substantially behind? If anything that would still be running for the championship with 2 or even a single race to go. Also you have to be the first person I know of to count top 20s as if something special.

Also Jr has been more consistent than Gordon and so has JJ issues beyond their control have happened but that is racing so they have to work harder. (I showed why above Junior and JJ are better this season)

Someone better inform Tony he's as consistent as Jeff in top 20s that should make him feel good about his year so far.

bad luck is part of racing. You just don't give the title to the fastest car -Harvick's this year most definitely- they have to race for it!
Essentially they're giving people that aren't deserving of it (drivers ranked 2-16 + drivers ranked 17-30 who won races) another chance with the Chase system, when they should be waiting for the next year!

The playoff/tournament system works in NFL/NHL/MLB/NBA because some teams barely meet each other during the regular season, doesn't apply in racing.
I kinda like the elimination system though (let's see how it works out, if JJ is an early exit I'll love it lol) so maybe have the top 4 or 5 drivers racing in some form of it for the title, provided they're within, Idk, 100 points of leader at a certain point in the schedule?
or keep more points (or all of them!) from the regular season in the Chase count to reward the consistent drivers?

They are racing for it for one, and I was explaining to him the idea of the chase since he sees it as a more sinister or inane concept. So we should just hand the trophy to Jeff is what your saying (guys I think I found another Jeff fan). Other than being more brash, your similarities to @ICEYOU are uncanny. Also the tournament style system in other sports isn't due to teams not meeting or barely meeting each other...It has more to do with money and distribution of it.

there's no Chase system in F1, the best driver throughout the whole season wins the Championship

No one said there was, and you already lack the necessary tools to really scrutinize NASCAR do you really want to test my on F1 which I'm probably better traversed in than this.

Matt Kenseth rule buddy... won the championship in 2003 by being the most regular, had only one win while Newman had 7 or 8.
NASCAR deemed him not worthy enough and came up with the stupid Chase system the following year, giving way to the Jimme Johnson undue (IMHO, he'd have only 4 titles if we were still using old system) reign.

And a conspiracy, I'm almost sure you're ICEYOU.

 

[RACECAR]

Chevy- Two Turner Scott trucks and the 20/9 (Who suck unless a Cup driver is in it)
Ford- Two BKR trucks
Toyota- KBR, Red Horse, Thorsport.
Everybody else is running old equipment, or equipment that sucks and isn't fully supported by the make.

When hasn't that been the case though? Sure no one was running the new Trucks last year, but you still could clearly tell who does and doesn't get their engines from JGR/Hendrick or trucks from Turner/KBM. Its not really all different, its just more obvious with this new truck. Hell, people were still running dodges and Fords for goodness sake (I'm looking at you, Jennifer). I don't even understand why Brad is even wasting his time with Ford Apart from his Penske connection, they haven't put nearly the amount of financial support the way Toyota and Chevy have. While Chevy has yet to win a race, they still have far more trucks on track then Ford does.

 

[cnd01]

Didn't a Dodge finish top 5 at Road America in the Nationwide series this season

 

[meek]

Well considering one has had much more time to make those stats than the other, I guess you'll say Harvick is also not better than Gordon in current form because he only has 25 wins in his career...
If you merely think overall stats of a career is indicative of how good a driver is each season, then you clearly don't know how by season analysis work

4% is close to 12% ??

Prorated to 744 races, Dale Jr wins 30.

Even if you pretend Jr won 42, and not 21, in his 524 races and project it to 744, he's still way behind Gordon with 58 wins!
How many titles does Junior have again, I forgot? if you think Junior ever was at Gordon's level, you're deluded.
Now, between JJ and JG is a good debate, especially if you remove Knaus from the equation.
About KH being as good, ask me at the end of 2015, when he completed his first 2 years ever in a top team/car.

may have a bias toward a driver.

guys I think I found another Jeff fan

I'm not a Gordon fan. Bayne, Edwards, Logano, Bowyer, Kyle Busch, Dale Jr rank higher in my heart.

you can't read context. I said in this season Junior and JJ are actually better than Gordon who hasn't had nearly the bad luck of his team mates.

I know what you said... I don't know how Harvick's bad luck magically switched to Gordon's teammates (plural) between posts, though!

JJ has 6 top 5 which is equal to Gordon the difference here is the average where Gordon finishes 2.6 when in the top 5 JJ is more likely to avg 2.1

JJ has 12 top 10s to Gordon's 13, here JJ's avg is 4.7 to Gordon's 5.07 when finishing in the top ten. However to make it more fair I dropped Gordon's worst top ten finish to equal 12 v 12 between the two. That avg came out to be JJ 4.7 still obviously to a Gordon 4.7 as well thus being equal.

1 win versus 3 does that for you

Junior has 9 top 5 vs Gordon's 6. Which is 2.6 for both Gordon and Junior, but if we equal the data and drop the worst 3 for Junior to make it 6 v 6 we get a 1.8 for Junior and a 2.6 for Gordon.

Junior has 13 top tens like Gordon, and his avg (Juniors) is 4.3 while Gordon has a 5.0.

my figures were correct at time of posting, which is the time I was replying to your "88&48 have been better than 24" claim. You're using the UPDATED (after today's race) standings, quite dishonest intellectually.

So why is Gordon ahead while his two team mates in 2nd and 3rd

consistency?
Before today's race, Gordon's average finish 8.7, Earnhardt 10.4, Johnson 10.6, and that's with Gordon winning only once and "Dale having more top 5's"!

I don't get how 27 and 55 is substantially behind? If anything that would still be running for the championship with 2 or even a single race to go

you'd seriously like your chances down 27 or 55 with 2 races left? I to the optimism!

Also you have to be the first person I know of to count top 20s as if something special.

not special but it does mean you're in the above half plus of the field.

Someone better inform Tony he's as consistent as Jeff in top 20s that should make him feel good about his year so far.

problem with Stewart is not his lack of top 20's, it's his lack of wins, top 5's and top 10's so far... Ambrose got as many top 5's for Christ sake's! time to heat up -again- Smoke!

. So we should just hand the trophy to Jeff is what your saying

did I say such thing? the rules aren't changing because I dislike them, but yeah, a real Championship system is much more fair in racing to me, whoever happening to lead at the end becoming Champ, with not one race more important than the others.

Also the tournament style system in other sports isn't due to teams not meeting or barely meeting each other...It has more to do with money and distribution of it.

you lack the necessary tools to really scrutinize sports.

Before interleague play, NL team played the AL team ONCE, in the World Series. Before the Series, only the top FOUR (not 12 or 16) teams made the playoffs.
NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAA teams play by regional conferences and/or divisions...

Not all teams can play each other (especially in NFL), and certainly not all at the same time, every week end... all NASCAR drivers do, barring injury
-->playoff system in racing=stupid !

All saw there was more money to make so expanded or created playoffs, doesn't mean it's fair, or good.

do you really want to test me on F1 which I'm probably better traversed in than this

I watched my first NASCAR race 22 years ago but didn't follow seriously until fairly recently.
I've been following F1 almost 30 years, you can try me, not sure I'll like where this is going as in your world, Schumacher (multiple champ, ~Gordon) is probably no better than Coulthard (second tier, good teammate, ~Dale Jr), or Hakkinen/Damon Hill (best equipment, helped by rules, ~Johnson) is the most deserving World Champ ever, right?

And a conspiracy

put your tinfoil hat down?
I only said that NASCAR thought wise to change a system which had worked for years, and has given Johnson an IMHO usurped status in the All Time Greats, because of 2003 season (and opportunity for more $).
Let me guess, JJ fan, right? JJ fan who knows his champ is nowhere near Petty and Dale Sr, and might not even be close to his teammate if it weren't for Chase racing and Knaus ?

I'm almost sure you're ICEYOU.

I have no idea who ICEYOU is, ask a mod to check my IP and provider if you don't believe me, and while you're at it, ask him to ...

you already lack the necessary tools to really scrutinize NASCAR

... change your username to PHDinNASCAR ?

 

[AMPMROCKETFANN]

Chevy- Two Turner Scott trucks and the 20/9 (Who suck unless a Cup driver is in it)
Ford- Two BKR trucks
Toyota- KBR, Red Horse, Thorsport.
Everybody else is running old equipment, or equipment that sucks and isn't fully supported by the make.

Close. Chevy: All Turner trucks (they basically are the factory team at this point) , NTS (they were on the side of the 20 truck at one point), and RCR whenever they show up.
Ford: BKR( with one private satellite team #92 that hasn't done squat since Chastain left)
Toyota: KBM-JGR (factory team), Red Horse, Thorsport (semi-factory; they both run Triad engines badged as Toyotas)

Everyone else: Old, unsupported left-overs that either have cosmetic upgrades or are previous spec trucks

 

[Ganon83]

meek speaks too good English to be ICEYOU

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

4% is close to 12% ??

Prorated to 744 races, Dale Jr wins 30.

Even if you pretend Jr won 42, and not 21, in his 524 races and project it to 744, he's still way behind Gordon with 58 wins!
How many titles does Junior have again, I forgot? if you think Junior ever was at Gordon's level, you're deluded.
Now, between JJ and JG is a good debate, especially if you remove Knaus from the equation.
About KH being as good, ask me at the end of 2015, when he completed his first 2 years ever in a top team/car.

RCR was a top team and has fallen in the past couple years not sure where you're getting your info from, and even though Harvick doesn't have any championship wins all it takes is a couple of seasons for him to be Gordon status?

Also where do I say 4% is close to 12%? What I said was Gordon has been racing 10 years more than Junior so how can you compare a guy that has had more chances at the same consistent team. Also I never said Junior is overall better than Gordon which you for the second time don't get I said for this season and even last season it could be argued Junior has done a better job than Gordon.

I'm not a Gordon fan. Bayne, Edwards, Logano, Bowyer, Kyle Busch, Dale Jr rank higher in my heart.

If you say so...

I know what you said... I don't know how Harvick's bad luck magically switched to Gordon's teammates (plural) between posts, though!

It didn't you quoted me saying how you don't think Junior has ever been better than Gordon, this season suggest Junior is better than Gordon, currently in this season. Because we're talking about this season.

1 win versus 3 does that for you

Actually the info I showed does that for you, Gordon has had ample opportunities to win and faltered as has been his issue the past few years.

my figures were correct at time of posting, which is the time I was replying to your "88&48 have been better than 24" claim. You're using the UPDATED (after today's race) standings, quite dishonest intellectually.

No one said they weren't, but since the race happened it does count I could claim the same to you about how you're butchering my post with snippets and then misquoting me like below.

consistency?
Before today's race, Gordon's average finish 8.7, Earnhardt 10.4, Johnson 10.6, and that's with Gordon winning only once and "Dale having more top 5's"!

Yes and as I demonstrated which you decided not to quote, why Gordon has a better finishing avg.

you'd seriously like your chances down 27 or 55 with 2 races left? I to the optimism!

Considering drivers have come back from it in the past and that 27 points could easily be made up in a race say Junior gets a top 5 and Gordon has a bad day. JJ could do the same just a little longer. It's not optimism it's simple math and reference to NASCAR history, not sure about you but most of us, me included, have been watching for several years. (I've watched since 93-94)

not special but it does mean you're in the above half plus of the field.


problem with Stewart is not his lack of top 20's, it's his lack of wins, top 5's and top 10's so far... Ambrose got as many top 5's for Christ sake's! time to heat up -again- Smoke!

Really you don't say? That was my point top 20s aren't what get you a championship or make you competitive in the chase it's top tens and more importantly top fives. Top 20s in pre-chase form also didn't get you any where.

did I say such thing? the rules aren't changing because I dislike them, but yeah, a real Championship system is much more fair in racing to me, whoever happening to lead at the end becoming Champ, with not one race more important than the others.

No you implied it by saying that there is some massive deficit. As well as:

Essentially they're giving people that aren't deserving of it (drivers ranked 2-16 + drivers ranked 17-30 who won races) another chance with the Chase system, when they should be waiting for the next year!

Anyone reading this would say that none of those drivers to you seem to have a chance outside of the chase and only with the chase they're getting second life. Which then can be extended to if they win the championship it's hollow.

you lack the necessary tools to really scrutinize sports.

Before interleague play, NL team played the AL team ONCE, in the World Series. Before the Series, only the top FOUR (not 12 or 16) teams made the playoffs.
NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAA teams play by regional conferences and/or divisions...

Not all teams can play each other (especially in NFL), and certainly not all at the same time, every week end... all NASCAR drivers do, barring injury
-->playoff system in racing=stupid !

All saw there was more money to make so expanded or created playoffs, doesn't mean it's fair, or good.

What do I lack exactly? What you seem to not understand is the set up of for example the NBA and its season see teams play against all if not most of the teams considering there is 82 games. The set up for the finals is about money and some people have shown (though I don't agree) that mainly the popular teams are given a better financial gain to make it to the playoffs. Or more so that teams that seem like a profitable play off to watch, and what will return more money to investors. Even if partially true how is that a great system?

I watched my first NASCAR race 22 years ago but didn't follow seriously until fairly recently.
I've been following F1 almost 30 years, you can try me, not sure I'll like where this is going as in your world, Schumacher (multiple champ, ~Gordon) is probably no better than Coulthard (second tier, good teammate, ~Dale Jr), or Hakkinen/Damon Hill (best equipment, helped by rules, ~Johnson) is the most deserving World Champ ever, right?

My world? I've followed F1 for 20 years, maybe if you actually went to F1 threads you'd see that I'm in there more than here so it's nice to assume I don't know what F1 is...

Schumi is a seven time champ, and was in the running for the title nearly every year (bar 96 and mainly 99 due to his broken leg), Gordon not so much, I'd say JJ is a better comparison and Gordon is more like a Nigel Mansell good but not as great as Senna, Piquet, Schumi, Prost.

put your tinfoil hat down?
I only said that NASCAR thought wise to change a system which had worked for years, and has given Johnson an IMHO usurped status in the All Time Greats, because of 2003 season (and opportunity for more $).
Let me guess, JJ fan, right? JJ fan who knows his champ is nowhere near Petty and Dale Sr, and might not even be close to his teammate if it weren't for Chase racing and Knaus ?

As @MustangRyan pointed out that's not necessarily true that the system worked as well as you put it since it changed various times before the chase was included. I'm not a JJ fan I'm a Dale Sr. and Dale Jr fan. Also Gordon had a great Crew Cheif in Ray Evernham that helped him get 3 championships for you to say somehow that JJ isn't a good driver is stupid and I only somewhat stand the guy, but what he and his team has done is play the rule book along with having a competent fast driver. You don't win nearly as many races as Earnhardt Sr or your supposedly amazing team mate in a smaller time span. Your premise on anyone winning the championship in chase format is asinine. Also what if Gordon loses his lead between now and the start of the chase? Will you still maintain that his lead over teammates was that great of a margin?

I have no idea who ICEYOU is, ask a mod to check my IP and provider if you don't believe me, and while you're at it, ask him to ...

... change your username to PHDinNASCAR ?

One you can't do that, it's none of our business, and even if your IPs didn't match it's not that hard to change them you know with VPNs or simply just moving somewhere else and other methods, it's just not that hard. Also why would I change my name to that because I dared to continue with this conversation? Because I've studied different racing serious for a long time due to interest and wanting to potentially work in that area one day, so not sure what your issue is...

 

[MustangRyan]

I think everyone else knew that LMS was saying that Dale was driving better than Gordon this year. Yes, Gordon has better career stats. If all you are going to do is bring out career stats that take absolutely nothing into context, I'm just going throw out the names David Pearson and Richard Petty, drop the mic, and walk off stage.

 

[cnd01]

I think everyone else knew that LMS was saying that Dale was driving better than Gordon this year. Yes, Gordon has better career stats. If all you are going to do is bring out career stats that take absolutely nothing into context, I'm just going throw out the names David Pearson and Richard Petty, drop the mic, and walk off stage.

Dale Earnhardt, I win!

 

[Rhykus Finlay]

Good for Brad K, fun to watch the last 2 laps or so XD.

But, I feel bad for him. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=E48AC99F7EF3209BB2ECE48AC99F7EF3209BB2EC

Really, really bad. XD

 

[MustangRyan]

Dale Earnhardt, I win!

David Pearson won 105 times in 574 career starts (18.3% win rate), despite being a part-time driver. Had Pearson run full Cup schedules in his prime, he might have more wins than Petty, whose total would definitely be lower than 200 wins.

If he drove full time today, he would win, on average, 13 races every two seasons, for 16 full seasons.

In 1973, Pearson started only 18 of the 28 races. He won 11 of his 18 starts, with 14 total top 5 finishes. Without even showing up to 10 of the 28 races, he still finished 8th in points.

In the only three seasons that he actually ran the full schedule, he won the Cup Series title all three times.