2014 United Sports Car Championship

[Earth]

Audi is very serious about buiding a Daytona Prototype

"I am personally in favour of Daytona Prototypes, because I think it is important to make overall wins," he explained. "Class wins [with the R8 GRAND-AM] are nice, but at the end of the day you have to win the race."

He stressed that an Audi USCR car would definitely "look like an Audi".

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106774

 

[cnd01]

Glad to hear. Audi will only run the Rolex 24, 12 hours of Sebring, and maybe the petit le mans more than likely even if they build a chassis and everything. I am glad they have DP interest though.

 

[hawkeye122]

My Econ teacher (Surprisingly) spoke about Audi today in class, and how they have a rather brilliant PR machine.

"How many of you know what Audi is?"
Almost everyone raised their hand.
"Now lets say that your parents wanted to give you a car, would you take a Lexus, and Audi, an Acura, or an Infiniti?"
Just about everyone again picked Audi.

He then went on to explain that back in the early 90's, no one wanted to buy an Audi. "They were, in most cases, garbage. And then in the late 90's, they started a racing program, and have won the 24 hours of Le Mans 6 times." (I didnt have the heart to correct him)
"Since then, everyone loves an Audi. And they ought to, they're great cars. But before the racing program, they were nothing"

It would make sense for Audi to continue in the USCR. Now that Audi only runs the WEC, they've got to keep their racing cred up with one of the largest car markets in the world.

 

[Wilbur]

Interesting that they would go that route but makes more sense to use a pre-built chassis and add their engine to it.

I'm sure they will take that chassis and find how to build a DP/LMP2 hybrid.

This is going to sound dumb since I'm still new to road racing in general. Is the engine the R8 uses fast enough to basically drop in a DP chassis and keep up? Or would it need a different Audi engine package all together?

 

[RACECAR]

Interesting that they would go that route but makes more sense to use a pre-built chassis and add their engine to it.

I'm sure they will take that chassis and find how to build a DP/LMP2 hybrid.

This is going to sound dumb since I'm still new to road racing in general. Is the engine the R8 uses fast enough to basically drop in a DP chassis and keep up? Or would it need a different Audi engine package all together?

I'd suspect with some tinkering (like How Steve Dinan has done with the BMW V8 or the Lozano Brothers with the Cayanne V8), it would be. Production based engines are pretty much all that are allowed in the the DPs as far as I'm aware.

 

[BKGlover]

Hmmm... Audi-Riley? Not bad.

I remember the Porsche engine deal. As I remember, that Cayanne V8 car beat the Flat-6 cars.

 

[hawkeye122]

Hmmm... Audi-Riley? Not bad.

I remember the Porsche engine deal. As I remember, that Cayanne V8 car beat the Flat-6 cars.

It did. The guys from Stuttgart werent especially happy about it either.

 

[Wilbur]

I'd suspect with some tinkering (like How Steve Dinan has done with the BMW V8 or the Lozano Brothers with the Cayanne V8), it would be. Production based engines are pretty much all that are allowed in the the DPs as far as I'm aware.

That's what I was thinking too, I wonder if anyone will switch outside Audi itself if that happens.

If only Rum-Bum would step up with Audi to DP! Now that would be one heck of a nicer car in all ways!

 

[freshseth83]

My Econ teacher (Surprisingly) spoke about Audi today in class, and how they have a rather brilliant PR machine.

"How many of you know what Audi is?"
Almost everyone raised their hand.
"Now lets say that your parents wanted to give you a car, would you take a Lexus, and Audi, an Acura, or an Infiniti?"
Just about everyone again picked Audi.

He then went on to explain that back in the early 90's, no one wanted to buy an Audi. "They were, in most cases, garbage. And then in the late 90's, they started a racing program, and have won the 24 hours of Le Mans 6 times." (I didnt have the heart to correct him)
"Since then, everyone loves an Audi. And they ought to, they're great cars. But before the racing program, they were nothing"

It would make sense for Audi to continue in the USCR. Now that Audi only runs the WEC, they've got to keep their racing cred up with one of the largest car markets in the world.

That's funny. That your Econ teacher would pit Audi against the Japanese Luxury makes that haven't been in your region for nearly as long as Audi. The funny thing is, Audi are behind Lexus Mercedes and BMW in America- where the USCR will run.

 

[cnd01]

That's funny. That your Econ teacher would pit Audi against the Japanese Luxury makes that haven't been in your region for nearly as long as Audi. The funny thing is, Audi are behind Lexus Mercedes and BMW in America- where the USCR will run.

And that's why they are going to run a DP...

 

[polarbear345]

And that's why they are going to run a DP...

"They are thinking of running a DP"

No one knows but them, and I doubt they've told anyone outside of the people that may be working on it.

 

[MustangManiac]

"They are thinking of running a DP"

No one knows but them, and I doubt they've told anyone outside of the people that may be working on it.

In and around the race community and auto industry an Audi DP in the USCR is pretty much a sure thing. Then it is a toss up between a US based DTM (if it ever materializes) or Indycar.

 

[cnd01]

"They are thinking of running a DP"

No one knows but them, and I doubt they've told anyone outside of the people that may be working on it.

They might not considering how much they loved running P1 in the ALMS.

In and around the race community and auto industry an Audi DP in the USCR is pretty much a sure thing. Then it is a toss up between a US based DTM (if it ever materializes) or Indycar.

I've heard this news rumored since about last September. I would think USDTM would be the logical route of those choices. I would try to establish a customer R8 program in GTLM next year also rather than putting eggs in too many baskets.

 

[Hun200kmh]

A racing program does a lot for a company. Audi has a similar story in Europe, but a couple of decades earlier. In the 70s Audi was an odd german automaker, not as popular as VW or Opel, not as classy as Mercedes, not as Sporty as BMW. Then, they launched this:

And raced it like this:

Audi was never again that other german automaker.


Funny that in the USA it's their Le Mans prototypes that did the same trick twenty years later.

 

[Mac K]

Hmmm... Audi-Riley? Not bad.

I remember the Porsche engine deal. As I remember, that Cayanne V8 car beat the Flat-6 cars.

I loved the Porsche Rileys, they were awesome

 

[cnd01]

I loved the Porsche Rileys, they were awesome

I was a Porsche Crawford man myself. Alex Job racing Ruby Tuesdays 23 with Mike Rockefeller anchoring.

Edit: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/audi-confirms-it-wants-to-build-a-daytona-prototype/ more good new on the Audi DP program. Looks like Audi is trying to bend the rules to let their 5L V10 engine approved. I say make them run the 4.0L V8. No special treatment.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Funny that in the USA it's their Le Mans prototypes that did the same trick twenty years later.

Well Audi was synonymous with ALMS during the glory years.

 

[freshseth83]

You won't last long if you run a business on what may happen. I'm sure if Audi, Porsche and Toyota called tomorrow and said they wanted to run full USCR seasons they would announce the class in a heartbeat as manufacturer teams are what bring in serious cash, but that's not what we have as they are busy with their WEC programs. This whole deal is ultimately about the GTE class, the inclusion of LMP's is just there to not totally screw those teams over.

Adding onto that, the WEC has basically turned P1 in regional series' into a thing of the past with both Asian and European LM series only having LMP2 and LMPC classes. So really USCR is just doing what the other regional series have done and eliminate LMP1.

What? There is no 'may happen'. Porsche had the intention of running LMP1 in the ALMS. That is gone because there isn't any LMP1 with the merger. How is that running a business on what may happen? What you said makes no sense. Porsche are the most popular brand in this form of Motorsport. They're represented in just about every series of GT racing. Their 'business' is safe irregardless of an LMP1 car. 👍

And what's this about not screwing over the LMP teams? They're already screwed in America with this merger. There was NO lmp2 teams in ALMS this season until Risi announced it would be back to GTE. There might be an LMP1 team that drops down to LMP2 for the USCR, that's only a possibility. What USCR is really doing is propping up their DP's as the top class because that's what they've 'invented' and invested in. Not LMP1. Don't get it confused with them following other series like the ELMS. Why run the ELMS in P1 if you can run the WEC? More exposure, more competition. Don't even mention AsLMS which isn't even off the ground.

The misconception seems to be that the USCR is doing this because the lack of interest in LMP1. That's so far from the truth, and if you buy into it they've already succeeded in their- IMO- brainwash. 3 LMP1 vs. LMP2. That's what ALMS 2013 was looking like before Risi decided to rejoin GTE. There's even reports that Rebellion is looking to run a 2nd car in some of the races this year. So not just 3, but possible of 4. Then Sebring had 2 Audis, 2 Rebellions, 1 Muscle Milk and 1 Dyson. 6 LMP1 cars vs. 5 LMP2 cars at Sebring. Tell me again which class was better represented and how the USCR is doing what "regional series" do.

And that's why they are going to run a DP...

because Grand AM's DP's are so popular, it's for PR. "We won the Daytona 24, LeMans 24hr, Sebring 12hr etc." Audi going to DP beating up on private teams like they did at LeMans before Peugeot arrived.

 

[RACECAR]

Let me guess, you're the one that's leading the "Breakaway" Series, aren't you?


Also if you are so sure that P1 wasn't dropped because lack of interest, then name me all the teams that were interested in P1 Fulltime in the ALMS this season because this is all I've seen:


Muscle Milk
Dyson Racing

Rebellion racing is about the only European team we know for sure that is running P1 full time this season and even then, its because they got sick of playing second fiddle to the Factory Hybrids in WEC.

 

[freshseth83]

Let me guess, you're the one that's leading the "Breakaway" Series, aren't you?

What 'breakaway series'? Oh, that's right, the rumor probably started from the disappointment of someone in LMP1. Can you refute what I said or you just asking baseless questions? ESM was going to run GTE until Risi showed up. There was no one to run LMP2 except Chris Tucker and he wasn't interested until ESM decided to do P2. So basically P2 was even more dead in the U.S. than P1, but that's what the USCR decided to include in their 'top class'. What's there to disagree about? The notion they got rid of the LMP1 class because it was a 'dying breed' or whatever you want to label it is silly.

Rebellion racing is about the only European team we know for sure that is running P1 full time this season and even then, its because they got sick of playing second fiddle to the Factory Hybrids in WEC.

2nd Fiddle huh? That's why they're still racing there right? They qualified in front of an Audi as well. They decided on ALMS with one of their 3 cars. That's why they will have 2 at some races in WEC and 2 in some races in ALMS.

 

[aarror]

It's for PR. "We won the Daytona 24, LeMans 24hr, Sebring 12hr etc." Audi going to DP beating up on private teams like they did at LeMans before Peugeot arrived.

Quoted for the truth.

 

[RACECAR]

What 'breakaway series'? Oh, that's right, the rumor probably started from the disappointment of someone in LMP1.

Yep, (supposedly Duncan Dayton, the same guy who ironically couldn't even keep his own team going in P1.) See the joke?

Can you refute what I said or you just asking baseless questions? ESM was going to run GTE until Risi showed up. There was no one to run LMP2 except Chris Tucker and he wasn't interested until ESM decided to do P2. So basically P2 was even more dead in the U.S. than P1, but that's what the USCR decided to include in their 'top class'. What's there to disagree about? The notion they got rid of the LMP1 class because it was a 'dying breed' or whatever you want to label it is silly.

The fact that your points have no concreate proof to them, especially the part about Porsche planning to race in the USCR when there is no official word anywhere (from Porsche or any credible soure for that matter)that they even said or stated this, just you (I'm seeing a pattern here). Also, I love how you've managed to jump around the question and then call it "baseless" when a lot of your Conspiracy theories seem to Lack solid proof. I'm willing to bet if it wasn't for Grand-Am being owned by NASCAR, you wouldn't even be coming with this hilarious theory (like many Sportscar elitists have).

BTW, still waiting for you to list those interested teams. And as for me "refuting" what you said, let me show you what seemingly you never can show me: Proof. I'll show you proof at how P1 has gotten laughably worse:


2009 P1 class:

De Ferran Motorsport
Patron Highcroft Racing
Intersport Racing
Autocon Motorsport*
Corsa Motorsports*


2010 LMP Class (Combined P1 & P2)

Patron Highcroft Racing (P2)
Muscle Milk Team Cytosport (P2)
Drayson Racing*(P1)
Dyson Racing Team(P2)
Intersport Racing*(P1)
Autocon Motorsports*(P1)

2011 P1 Class:

Dyson Racing Team
Muscle Milk Aston Martin Racing
Autocon*
Oryx*

2012 P1 Class:

Muscle Milk Pickett Racing
Dyson Racing Team

*= Hasn't run full season


There you go, all actual proof pulled straight from the actual team standings, not fiction made up in my mind. Now its your turn to show me proof

2nd Fiddle huh? That's why they're still racing there right? They qualified in front of an Audi as well. They decided on ALMS with one of their 3 cars. That's why they will have 2 at some races in WEC and 2 in some races in ALMS.

Keyword: Qualified. Where did they finish? Behind them. Nowhere did I state they left WEC, only that they are tired of winning a 'Best of the rest" class within a class and not overall wins, Something the ALMS gives them the opportunity to do.

Again, here's Proof:

"We want to build upon those results in 2013 and aim to add to our tally of overall race wins,” said team manager Bart Hayden. “The visibility generated by overall wins is more in line with what our partners require and desire. The WEC is a World Championship and we would like to find a way to continue racing there too. Over the coming weeks, we will be striving to put together a program to complement our presence in the ALMS. We are a team that has grown up with the Le Mans spirit since our involvement in the GT class in the early 2000s and we want to continue racing in championships that mix the very best professional prototype and GT teams. I will be particularly pleased if we can succeed in finding a way to run cars in both the ALMS and the FIA WEC in 2013.”

link


Now argue with me how that isn't them being sick of playing second fiddle to the factory teams. Yes they are still racing in WEC, but clearly its not important to the point where they want nothing to do with the ALMS.

 

[Mac K]

Seth can you ever go anywhere without starting an argument of some kind?

 

[RACECAR]

The main problem I have with Seth is most of time, he just posts stuff and instead of trying to find anything to back it up (like I just did), just expects everyone to believe it. The Super GT thread, he wanted us to believe something based on some shoddy, questionable website (nothing reputable or legit) instead of again, waiting on actual proof (in that case, any official statement from Honda).

 

[Furinkazen]

The health of prototypes - Grand Am DP's have only been getting around 12 per race at most regular events this year I believe. Add to this that ALMS has NEVER had a strong prototype field - its used to be around 2004 two outdated Dyson Lola's against the Champion Racing Audi R8, then when Porsche came in they effectively merged classes to give Audi some competition. Highcroft gave some competition when they came in, but was that not with a P2 car? Was it not a P2 car that De Ferran won the ALMS in? The prototypes have never been in good health, to be honest most of ALMS has never been in good health.

GT? Well GTS / GT1 was always a dying category and around 2004 was just Corvette vs the ACEMCO Saleen S7R, with Aston Martin's DBR9 chipping in sometime in the years afterwards. GTE (aka GT2) had been the best class and done well, with BMW, Porsche, Corvette, Aston Martin, Lotus, and now Dodge.

Point is the ALMS has always struggled, and the merger is good as Grand Am in all honesty has struggled a little in the Prototype respect.

Re post on the point of prototype grids in the ALMS, and I would add on a general front I still don't know why you can't restrict older LMP1's a little in a cheaper LMP1 for teams like Rebellion, and LMP1-AM division if you will.

 

[cnd01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D3ggWV5iso&feature=youtu.be&safe=active

Dane Cameron driving the Sahlen's BMW Riley around Turner Field during an Atlanta Braves game for Jackie Robinson day.

 

[Earth]

Audi going to DP beating up on private teams like they did at LeMans before Peugeot arrived.

Ganassi is no pushover. And when Michael Shank gets full Ford factory support with the company's new DP, Audi will definitely have a fight on its hands

 

[cnd01]

Ganassi is no pushover. And when Michael Shank gets full Ford factory support with the company's new DP, Audi will definitely have a fight on its hands

Don't forget the likes of FIA WEC LMP2 and NAEC championship winning team, Starworks. Wayne Taylor isn't to shabby himself. Audi will be balanced out even by grand am bop anyway, so it won't be a slaughterfest.

More good news: Pedro Lamy is joining Stephane Sarrazin in the 8 Star motorsports corvette DP for road atlanta and other events. Enzo Potoliccio will drive the team's second corvette DP in select other races. Tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/8starmotor/status/325015247654121473/photo/1

 

[hawkeye122]

Don't forget the likes of FIA WEC LMP2 and NAEC championship winning team, Starworks. Wayne Taylor isn't to shabby himself. Audi will be balanced out even by grand am bop anyway, so it won't be a slaughterfest.

More good news: Pedro Lamy is joining Stephane Sarrazin in the 8 Star motorsports corvette DP for road atlanta and other events. Enzo Potoliccio will drive the team's second corvette DP in select other races. Tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/8starmotor/status/325015247654121473/photo/1

Audi will make a massive stink if they are getting routinely beat by Privateers. They'll either find a way to get their car faster anyways, and threaten to leave if they get bop-d

 

[MustangManiac]

Audi will make a massive stink if they are getting routinely beat by Privateers. They'll either find a way to get their car faster anyways, and threaten to leave if they get bop-d

Then they can leave, I have been sick of guessing which Audi is going to win LaMans the past ten years or so...not my idea of racing.