2015/16 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[MUSC4EVER]

Games this weekend...

Saturday
Chelsea v Stoke
Everton v West Ham
Man City v Aston Villa
Newcastle v Bournemouth
Southampton v Sunderland
Swansea v Norwich
Tottenham v Arsenal (12.45 BT)
Watford v Leicester (5.30 Sky)

Sunday
Crystal Palace v Liverpool (1.30 Sky)
West Brom v Man United (4pm Sky)

Obviously Spurs-Arsenal is the stand out game there but there are some other intriguing games too, should be a good weekend...

 

[Dennisch]

Logic.


Morons.

 

[Liquid]

That is everything I hate about football.

Let them have their rich boys' playground. And let them eat dirt when it goes tits up and they come crawling back for election into the domestic league.

 

[Dennisch]

Bovine excrement gathered from the deepest manure pit.

I hope they all see red numbers for a long time.

 

[m8h3r]

This idea of "elite" only makes me sick, so what if Man utd don't get Champions League football, guess what we wasn't good enough this year.

I think dependant on group Leicester would do pretty good in the Champions League. They play better against teams coming at them cause of their counterattacking threat and nobody in there would play to defend. Yeah they'd find it harder to score amongst the likes of Juventus and Barcelona but them coming forward plays into Leicester's style.

 

[Akmuq]

The 5 'elite' teams from England are placed 3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 10th...

I don't know why this idea hasn't died yet, it's probably horrible enough to completely ruin football. It is not the birthright of rich clubs to play in the highest level of competition.


This seems like a Blatter idea.

 

[Famine]

Did [Manchester United] create soccer or did Leicester?

No.

And if that's your argument, I'm sure non-league Sheffield FC and Hallam FC would love to play in the Champions League every year.

 

[lxmmy]

I think the idea of calling a team an 'elite' is just absurd.

Leicester have proven that the Premiership is the best league in the World by ensuring that no team exactly can ease through a game. I am sure the majority of 'avid' football fans would love a team like Leicester or West Ham to be in the UCL.

Also, Payet beats Ozil and Willian to London player of the Year.

 

[Famine]

Leicester have proven that the Premiership is the best league in the World by ensuring that no team exactly can ease through a game.

While I don't know what that means and don't know how it's justification for the Premier League being the best league in the World, I've heard a great deal of comments this year saying that because everyone can beat everyone and no game has an obvious winner any more, the Premier League is the best in the World...

... but the Championship has been like that for years.

 

[Vegard]

CEO of organisation who promotes soccer in order to make big profits suggests actions that would make big profits. Shocking. I never saw that coming.

 

[lxmmy]

While I don't know what that means and don't know how it's justification for the Premier League being the best league in the World, I've heard a great deal of comments this year saying that because everyone can beat everyone and no game has an obvious winner any more, the Premier League is the best in the World...

... but the Championship has been like that for years.

I would say its the best in the World in terms of how close the teams play in such high tempo quality. The competitive balance in the Championship is impressive, but the quality of football is not quite as near the Premiership.

So in; Ligue 1 PSG lead by 23 points, Bundesliga the gap between (Bayern) 1st and (Hertha) 3rd is 20 points, Liga BBVA it has been a race between Real, Atletico and Barca for the past couple of years. Compared to the Premiership the gap between 1st and 5th is just 10 points.

 

[Famine]

I would say its the best in the World in terms of how close the teams play in such high tempo quality. The competitive balance in the Championship is impressive, but the quality of football is not quite as near the Premiership.

You should probably not mention that to the Premier League teams who've been knocked out of cups by Championship ones this season.

So in; Ligue 1 PSG lead by 23 points, Bundesliga the gap between (Bayern) 1st and (Hertha) 3rd is 20 points, Liga BBVA it has been a race between Real, Atletico and Barca for the past couple of years. Compared to the Premiership the gap between 1st and 5th is just 10 points.

10pt covers the top six in the Championship - after six more games.

Last season 12pt covered the top seven at the end of the Championship, with a team missing out on the playoffs on goal difference and the title being decided by 1pt. Last season's Premier League? 12pt covered the top 3 - with 8 fewer games played each.

Fans of the top four teams only see how close the table is by their rivals, not by the league as a whole. The difference between winning the league and relegation in the 2014-15 Championship was 1.065 points per game. In the same season's Premier League it was 1.368 points per game. In the current seasons it's 1.069 for the Championship and 1.178 for the Premier League. In 2013-14, when Leicester ran away with the Championship and the Premier League was won on the last day of the season by Manchester City, it was 1.261 for the Championship and 1.395 for the Premier League. It's a stat that keeps on going and going:

2015-16: 1.178 - 1.069
2014-15: 1.368 - 1.065
2013-14: 1.395 - 1.261
2012-13: 1.395 - 0.717
2011-12: 1.395 - 1.065/0.891*
2010-11: 1.079 - 1.000
2009-10: 1.474 - 1.196
2008-09: 1.474 - 0.957
2007-08: 1.342 - 0.634
2006-07: 1.342 - 1.000
2005-06: 1.500 - 1.391
2004-05: 1.632 - 0.957
*Portsmouth deducted 10pt for entering administration, latter figure represents difference without that deduction

When it comes to close leagues, the Premier League can't touch the Championship. Whenever it gets close, the Championship is always closer - and better for it.

 

[Akmuq]

This has been done to death here.

The Premiership is a jack of all trades on the world stage, high quality, entertaining, unpredictable.

I don't buy the idea that the Championship is the best solely because it's close. It's similar to saying that NASCAR is the best Motorsport because it's close.

Quality is higher in the Premier League, the games are more watchable, whilst still being very competitive.


For the record, I think the Bundesliga is the best league because its highest quality and apart from a couple of outliers at the top, it's pretty competitive.

Although, I don't see why the comparison needs to be made.

 

[lxmmy]

For the record, I think the Bundesliga is the best league because its highest quality and apart from a couple of outliers at the top, it's pretty competitive.

The Bundesliga are quite unpredictable as well. With Frankfurt, Hannover & Hoffenheim are at the bottom and Ingolstadt looking like they can finish in the top 10.

 

[Ross]

I've only watched a few Championship games this season but I have to say, from the games I've watched, there really isn't much of a gap in quality of football between the top half of the Championship and bottom half of the Premier League. Personally, I prefer to watch the Premier League because that's where the team I support play so I have more of an interest in what's going on. I would imagine that is the same for most people that prefer the EPL to the Championship as well.

I would also say that the EPL has more talent in terms of individual players (De Gea, Aguero, Silva, Kane etc). Granted there are some players that have come from lower leagues and are doing well such as Alli and Vardy but I suppose you get the occasional gem in the lower leagues like that.

 

[Famine]

The Premiership is a jack of all trades on the world stage, high quality, entertaining, unpredictable.

It's barely any of those things. Certainly when it comes to quality of football it's behind Spain, Italy and Germany - and maybe France and Portugal too.

As for being unpredictable... in 24 seasons it's been won by five teams. Three of those teams have won 20 titles between them and one has won 13. You could set your watch by the top three in just about every season since 1997*.

This season it's a little different, but that's very much one of two anomalies in the statistics. And it's still more predictable than the Championship in the same season in both cases...

I don't buy the idea that the Championship is the best solely because it's close. It's similar to saying that NASCAR is the best Motorsport because it's close.

Good job no-one said either of those things then.

The point is, again, that everyone's making noises about how amazing the Premier League is because everyone can beat everyone else and it's so close, competitive and unpredictable. I'll have to agree that, yes, this season with Chelsea wallowing in 10th and Spurs, Leicester and West Ham sitting in the top six, it is the least predictable, closest and most competitive it has ever been (2010-11 was closer, but ultimately the top four were who'd you'd expect) - but next to the Championship it's a snoozefest and for 9 of the 12 seasons that the Championship has existed it has been closer than even this unusually competitive Premier League season.

*And this is why, right now, some annoying turd is talking about putting those three - plus financial fair play ignorers Manchester City and perennial also-rans Liverpool - into a breakaway league from which they can never be relegated, excluding the likes of Leicester, Spurs and West Ham who have fair teabagged them this season.

 

[Akmuq]

Spain, Italy and Germany - and maybe France and Portugal too.

Spain and Germany trump it, Italy, France and Portugal are miles behind.

It is definitely entertaining, most teams play positive football that is worth watching.(West Brom, Watford and something Chelsea are the notable exceptions)

And I don't see how there can be an argument on the league being unpredictable when Leicester are top and Chelsea in 10th.


I never said that the Premier League was the highest quality, the most unpredictable or the most entertaining. I just believe that there is a delicate balance this season between top quality play and unpredictable results.

And then there is Liverpool, who manage to alternate between being top quality and mediocre.

 

[Famine]

And I don't see how there can be an argument on the league being unpredictable when Leicester are top and Chelsea in 10th.

As explained above, it's because it's the exception. Even in the one season (of 24) won by a team other than the four major clubs, it was won by a team you wouldn't have been surprised at.

At best you can say that this season is unpredictable...

... but still less than the Championship is.

 

[adamp93]

@Famine I don't really think you can make the comparison of who finishes in the top 4 in the premier league regularly against the championship. The prize for finishing in the top 2 in the championship is to no longer be in it. A different selection of teams every year will almost certainly provide closer finishes. The same argument can be made for almost every other sport, the lower division will be closer/more competitive.

It's also worth pointing out that when people argue over which is the best league in the world they are only referring to the top flights of different countries, they are by definition "better" than the lower leagues.

 

[Famine]

@Famine I don't really think you can make the comparison of who finishes in the top 4 in the premier league regularly against the championship.

That's why I'm not. I'm comparing the points tally of whomever wins the league to the best of the relegated teams. That metric tells you how much better the best team is than the teams not good enough to be in it any more - or how close best and worst are - and every season the team that wins the Championship is closer to relegation from it that the team that wins the Premier League is.

It works for any league with relegation too...

2014-15
1.211 - Ligue 1
1.294 - Bundesliga
1.368 - Premier League
1.395 - Serie A
1.474 - Scottish Premiership
1.552 - La Liga*
1.765 - Eredivisie

*La Liga - Elche relegated due to financial difficulties at 1.395; Eibar would have been relegated otherwise at 1.552

But I keep being told that because Leicester City are top of this one Premier League season and the top four is unusual, the Premier League is close, competitive and unpredictable. Why? Well, people in the Premier League are used to seeing the same top four teams - and, let's be honest, the same top seven. This season the usual top seven are second, third, fourth, fifth, eight, tenth and eleventh.

The metric agrees that this season is close, competitive and unpredictable:

2015-16
1.178 - Premier League
1.229 - Scottish Premiership
1.407 - Serie A
1.593 - La Liga
1.600 - Eredivisie
1.625 - Bundesliga
1.636 - Ligue 1

It's certainly true that, for this season, that's the case - but for the other 23 seasons it isn't. And by the above metric it is still less close than the same Championship season - as with every season in the two leagues ever.


Premier League fans are, understandably, very excited by this season. Welcome to the club - this is what the Championship is like every year.


Anyway. The game that will probably decide the title is today - and in about 2.5 hours.

 

[Dreadmed]

Coquelin is off, Spurs with 2 goals in as many minutes and now they're 2-1 up with 25 left on the clock.

Edit: FT 2-2, Ranieri probably enjoyed that.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Tottenham bigger bottlers than us, doesn't matter though, if Leicester win today it's over.

 

[Ross]

That was probably the best result that Leicester could have hoped for. They could be 5 points clear of Spurs and 8 points clear of Arsenal by the end of the day.

 

[Dennisch]

That was probably the best result that Leicester could have hoped for. They could be 5 points clear of Spurs and 8 points clear of Arsenal by the end of the day.

Fingers crossed!

 

[Akmuq]

Ugh, let them off.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Still think Leicester will win it, but they need to step up. of the top 3 Tottenham have the toughest fixtures, then Arsenal.

 

[Famine]

On second thoughts, bollocks to the Championship.

 

[ECGadget]

Five points clear and 20 ahead of the current champions. Leicester right now has a real buzz about it when you go outside. As a L'pool fan, born close to Tottenham and Arsenal and residing in Leicester... Go Foxes!

 

[sems4arsenal]

Still think Leicester will win it, but they need to step up. of the top 3 Tottenham have the toughest fixtures, then Arsenal.

Baring any miracles, it's over. No way Arsenal claw back an 8 point gap.

 

[Mike Rotch]

It's hard to deny Leicester this title, if they get it. They are performing like champions and cashing in results like clockwork whilst others stumble 👍