2015 F1 Mechanics/Aero; Design predictions to win the WCC/WDC. READ FIRST POST

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It just means 1 less penalty for the Renault and Honda boys.

For now, all they've done is delay it to a later race. Honda claim they're about wrapped up the problems with their engine, but unless extreme cooling efforts have been made then it's still going to blow up. And as far as Renault go, it seems they're goal is more of what they did when a new engine comes out. Have so many issues with it they beg the FIA to open up the engine development fully so they can build a more reliable fair competition engine to have customers.

 

[SK8RBOI]

What of F1 was actually entertaining? Maybe it would be worth watching?

Or will that go against everything F1 stands for? I meen, if the racing was good no one would be looking at the advertising on the track so at the end of the day it would to more harm than good!

Yea F1 is better boring..... Makes everything else I watch look good!

 

[TenEightyOne]

What of F1 was actually entertaining? Mabby it wold be worth watching?

Or will that go against everything F1 stands for? I meen if the racing was good, no one would be looking at the advertising on the track so at the end of the day it would to more harm then good!

Yea F1 is betta boring..... Makes every thing else I watch look good!

Blimey, it's like reading Wycliffe's Bible.

Are you sure that all the races this season have lacked actual-racing?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What of F1 was actually entertaining? Mabby it wold be worth watching?

Or will that go against everything F1 stands for? I meen if the racing was good, no one would be looking at the advertising on the track so at the end of the day it would to more harm then good!

Yea F1 is betta boring..... Makes every thing else I watch look good!

You might want to have a look at the Terms of Service again because:

• You will post all messages in English.
• You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters.

If you have anything useful to post on this thread please do so, rather than whatever that is I'm quoting.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Max Moseley has made a sensible suggestion - in exchange for teams agreeing to a budget cap, the technical regulations should be opened up to allow more design freedom. Sauber are the first to throw their support behind the proposal.

 

[TheBook]

Soon to be followed by Marussia and Force India, I'm sure, since they're the teams that are hurting the most.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

James Allen has this interesting piece (it says it's by him, but some of the language suggests that it has come from Williams and was simply posted by him) on the concept of a "co-constructor car", where teams identify core components of a car and would be able to purchase them from other teams, provided that the parts are not performance related. It's being pitched as a way of keeping costs down because smaller teams won't be forced to design and build those components themselves. And given that when Sauber released those images of their cars cut in two, they noted that there are close to 8,000 individual parts to a car, there's a lot of scope for potential here.


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...-customer-cars-in-f1-and-co-constructor-cars/


It just needs some means of keeping the costs down. But I imagine that suppliers would be hard-pressed to justify charging any more than the cost of production. Especially considering that they are intent on keeping the bonus pay-out structure intact, so costs will not be a problem for them.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

James Allen has this interesting piece (it says it's by him, but some of the language suggests that it has come from Williams and was simply posted by him) on the concept of a "co-constructor car", where teams identify core components of a car and would be able to purchase them from other teams, provided that the parts are not performance related. It's being pitched as a way of keeping costs down because smaller teams won't be forced to design and build those components themselves. And given that when Sauber released those images of their cars cut in two, they noted that there are close to 8,000 individual parts to a car, there's a lot of scope for potential here.


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...-customer-cars-in-f1-and-co-constructor-cars/


It just needs some means of keeping the costs down. But I imagine that suppliers would be hard-pressed to justify charging any more than the cost of production. Especially considering that they are intent on keeping the bonus pay-out structure intact, so costs will not be a problem for them.

I read this, along with all the other stuff that is being proposed (e.g. refueling) and there are teams like FI that aren't happy about it though. Now I agree, a drive-train and a basic monocoque and shell and certain upgrades perhaps would be fine. And then the aero parts are just done by the teams themselves and thus placed on the main structure or the car. My issue is how will this effect innovation aspects of the Formula, to me it seems the cars main innovations would be from the higher up teams supplying the cars so in that regard you'd have the competitors and their legion of b teams.

Which could go either way, but I wouldn't expect see a customer supplied car win races or gather podiums very often if at all like that seen back in the 70s and 60s. However, I don't know if I can fully see how it's a bad thing like FI.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-holds-fire-on-f1-engine-tokens

So Mercedes still doesn't want to use tokens and is electing to do so later on. My guess is Spa may be the first place we see them use upgrades for the engine, but if it isn't Spa then it will be Monza if neither...then they're use will be purely to outperform their adversaries next year again all because they had the drop in 2014 and built upon it even more this year with the token distribution being a strategic tool and not an aid they really need.

If that is the case then Mercedes are clearly further out there than I expected after what was seen in Malaysia and subsequent races.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom...o---ferrari-s-ride-height-control-system.html
http://www.formula1.com/content/fom...i-sf15-t---monaco-steering-modifications.html

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom...cedes-f1-w06-hybrid---monaco-monkey-seat.html

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Refuelling (reportedly) rejected. Really:

http://m.skysports.com/article/formula1//9875732

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Customer cars are dead! Long live franchise cars!

http://adamcooperf1.com/2015/06/05/f1s-top-teams-discuss-franchise-cars-contingency-plan/

It looks to be some kind of hybrid between customer cars and third cars, with the "franchise" car run as a satellite operation of the main team, kind of like the satellite teams in V8 Supercars.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Michelin have put in a bid to replace Pirelli as tyre supplier. They want lower-profile tyres, and they're clearly playing the populist agenda by suggesting that they want tyres that the drivers can use to push, as if they can somehow create tyres that will never lose grip.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Michelin have put in a bid to replace Pirelli as tyre supplier. They want lower-profile tyres, and they're clearly playing the populist agenda by suggesting that they want tyres that the drivers can use to push, as if they can somehow create tyres that will never lose grip.

We had those, and it was rubbish. "Shall we go for the one stop strategy today, or start packing up the cars early?"

 

[SK8RBOI]

We had those, and it was rubbish. "Shall we go for the one stop strategy today, or start packing up the cars early?"

How can it get more boring then what it is now?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How can it get more boring then what it is now?

Bulletproof tyres. There's a reason why Michelin is the preferred supplier of tyres for taxi companies - they last forever.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

You need something to change over the duration of the race. Qualifying puts the fastest cars at the front, and engines the way they are without refuelling that all the cars weigh the same, and use fuel at a very similar rate. You take away degrading tyres and what will we have left? 2 hours watching cars go around, no-one overtaking and just the wait for that compulsory change from a set of tyres good enough to last the entire race, onto a second set of tyres good enough to last the entire race.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I think no matter what changes come to the cars people will either call them artificial or boring, we need more tracks that have slow corners following long straights and less high speed sequences where drivers just get stuck behind other cars.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is no formula for circuit design that will guarantee good racing. Spa and Abu Dhabi are equally capable of producing both good and bad racing.

Better racing will come from changing the cars, not the circuits - but the teams will never agree to anything that might jeopardise their advantage, so we get stuck with flimsy tyres and DRS and the teams pretend they have fixed the sport.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

It seems strange to me that the teams have such a big say in the direction of the rules. I doubt that anyone in the decision process is unaware that the aerodynamics are the largest problem with the racing, and costs are just too high for all but the big teams. The FIA are scared they'll push teams away, and teams themselves will direct rules so as not to lose any advantage they currently own.

The problems at the top were highlighted best for me when they voted to allow or deny Manor to enter the 2015 season with a 2014 chassis. The headlines stated how Force India blocked the move, but the truth was that no-one at the table saw the proposal as viable given Manor did not specify a plan in getting a 2015 chassis ready. If allowed at that stage, there would be nothing stopping them using it until the 2016 chassis was ready for testing. Force India were first to vote, and after saying no that was that.

The whole situation there would have felt a lot better, had voting started with the FIA members or better still, all votes been cast at the same time.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It seems strange to me that the teams have such a big say in the direction of the rules.

Because they hold the sport hostage. How many times has Ferrari threatened to walk? How often has Red Bull thrown their toys out of the pram? They want to influence the direction of the sport to protect their position, and they play up to the fan dislike of Ecclestone and the FIA.

 

[Peasantslayer]

The big teams are too important to the future of the sport so they have power, if things could be done more cheaply and the field closed up a bit the big teams wouldn't be able to hold the sport hostage but of course the big teams won't allow that!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How can it get more boring then what it is now?

Did you not watch F1 between say 2003-2007?

I think no matter what changes come to the cars people will either call them artificial or boring, we need more tracks that have slow corners following long straights and less high speed sequences where drivers just get stuck behind other cars.

The problem you pose isn't a circuit issue, but a fundamental flaw with how the FIA has been setting up the rules. Lose a good portion of Aero grip and or create a better balance of Mechanical and Aero grip that doesn't allow washout or dirty air.

Once you've done that instead of seeing cars trail one another for 2 hours you see cars trail and gain due to the slip stream more than being washed out. Thus you will see dog fights for positions. I rather not go back to the early to mid 2000s where Saturday Quali, or the race from the light to turn one told me who was going to be the winner without having to watch the entire race or even half of it.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Perhaps some sort of ground effects could be reintroduced, would that make the cars easier to follow?

 

[GTPorsche]

Mateschitz is once again whining about Renault and stating he's losing interest in the sport. I think he needs to take his tantrum and go sit in a corner for a while.

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.co...m-renault-and-says-hes-losing-interest-in-f1/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Perhaps some sort of ground effects could be reintroduced, would that make the cars easier to follow?

Sure it would but that was already rejected a couple years ago, just like how 1000 hp and bigger tires among other things seem to be rejected.

 

[MHPALA]

New MP4-30 short nose.

 

[GTPorsche]

Is their new strategy to make the car as small as possible so we have less of a chance of spotting it while it circulates the track slowly?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Is their new strategy to make the car as small as possible so we have less of a chance of spotting it while it circulates the track slowly?

HA!

But seriously they're probably thinking or have seen better results from the Williams nose compared to the long old nose they had prior.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/06/19/ferrari-really-close-to-mercedes-power-unit-performance/

 

[GTPorsche]

Well, it would allow more/better airflow under the nose to the floor of the car, so maybe there's something to it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Sure it would but that was already rejected a couple years ago, just like how 1000 hp and bigger tires among other things seem to be rejected.

Where the teams have gotten it so very horribly wrong is the insistence that the fans want to be entertained. Yes, we all want exciting racing, but that is not the same as wanting to be entertained.

Each individual fan wants something different, but I think that it's safe to say that we don't want to see overtaking. We want to see the possibility of overtaking - it should be possible, but not guaranteed; the driver still has to work for it.

Watching last night's GP2 race, there was some fantastic stuff. It was a good balance between strategy and racecraft, and I think that's what Formula 1 needs. We need a scenario where multiple strategies are equally viable. We need tyres that work best when the drivers maintain momentum, but punish errors. We need lower downforce and an increase in mechanical grip. And we need to restructure the finances to be fairer - sure, reward success, reward longevity, but don't pay one team more money for showing up than another team spends over the course of the season.

What still bothers me is that hearing the Tweets during free practice, the fans still blame the FIA and Bernie for the current state of affairs. Nobody seems to acknowledge that the teams have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.