2015 TUDOR United Sportscar Championship

[RACECAR]

What is the difference? They both hail from the land of missing lugnuts,missing tire walls,and G-W-C x3 FTW.

The difference is that you made it out to be that IMSA (which is not the old the Grand-Am team) made these rules for detuned GT3 cars when It was Grand-Am that made it two years prior to the merger, which simply combined that class with the useless GTC class from the ALMS. Ironically, IMSA consists of the old ALMS crew.

 

[catamount39]

When stock GT3 takes over GTD, and P is fixed again, and PC is resolved, I think this series will start to shine...if these SC periods get fixed.

 

[IforceV8]

The difference is that you made it out to be that IMSA (which is not the old the Grand-Am team) made these rules for detuned GT3 cars when It was Grand-Am that made it two years prior to the merger, which simply combined that class with the useless GTC class from the ALMS. Ironically, IMSA consists of the old ALMS crew.

http://www.imsa.com/articles/class-specifications-2014-united-sportscar-racing-debut-taking-shape-0

 

[RACECAR]

http://www.imsa.com/articles/class-specifications-2014-united-sportscar-racing-debut-taking-shape-0

And you're trying to tell me that this is somehow worse then when Grand-Am had the rules? The cars were still slower then the GTE class so the "adjustments" made are hardly noticeable. Also, Ferrari and Audi were the only two makes to actually make Grand-Am Specific cars so the only teams that had any "costly" work to change over were Turner Motorsports and the Viper Team. Besides, Both of them look way better this season anyhow.

Edit: Come to think of it, I actually want to debunk the "Cost" myth using the Z4. Last year's car in TUSC Trim:

Full GT3 Spec

According to the team owner, it didn't take much to convert it between the two.

 

[TDZdave]

There's not much in the visuals other then the rear wing and dive planes on the nose,

 

[catamount39]

The IMSA GTD spec ripped out the ABS and TC. Which completely changes the car since they were constructed to be used with those in place.

 

[RACECAR]

The IMSA GTD spec ripped out the ABS and TC. Which completely changes the car since they were constructed to be used with those in place.

They weren't "Ripped" out, just disabled. Again as Will Turner said, not a lot had to be done to convert their car between the two specs.

 

[catamount39]

Still only will be happy next year when it's plain FIA GT3.

 

[GTPorsche]

Ah yes, another episode of "DHH 🤬 on twitter" currently.

I realize it's a legitimate concern he's bringing up.. driver safety in regards to the driver changes and belts being secured properly, but does this guy ever not have anything negative to say?

 

[catamount39]

Ah yes, another episode of "DHH 🤬 on twitter" currently.

I realize it's a legitimate concern he's bringing up.. driver safety in regards to the driver changes and belts being secured properly, but does this guy ever not have anything negative to say?

If he said something positive he'd probably be under the influence.

 

[IforceV8]

Ah yes, another episode of "DHH 🤬 on twitter" currently.

I realize it's a legitimate concern he's bringing up.. driver safety in regards to the driver changes and belts being secured properly, but does this guy ever not have anything negative to say?

Why would anybody with a brain be happy with this?

 

[catamount39]

Why would anybody with a brain be happy with this?

That you're spot on. 👍 If we had seperate fueling and tires it'd help with this...in a way. They should be tightened before the car starts rolling.

 

[IforceV8]

HANS with no belt on it.

 

[GTPorsche]

Yeah, I'm not saying he's wrong, but I only ever see him tweet when an issue arises.

But this is IMSA... they have in-car cameras. How are they not catching these infractions?

 

[TDZdave]

Yeah, I'm not saying he's wrong, but I only ever see him tweet when an issue arises.

But this is IMSA... they have in-car cameras. How are they not catching these infractions?

Its not worthy of a caution, so they wont police it,

 

[RACECAR]

Ah yes, another episode of "DHH 🤬 on twitter" currently.

I realize it's a legitimate concern he's bringing up.. driver safety in regards to the driver changes and belts being secured properly, but does this guy ever not have anything negative to say?

The better question is, does he ever shut the 🤬 up? There's bringing up safety concerns and then there's just being a massive, annoying prick.

 

[GTPorsche]

Its not worthy of a caution, so they wont police it,

It wouldn't bring out a caution, it would be a drive-through or a stop/go penalty if they actually enforced it.

 

[TDZdave]

It wouldn't bring out a caution, it would be a drive-through or a stop/go penalty if they actually enforced it.

You missed the joke....

 

[IforceV8]

And you're trying to tell me that this is somehow worse then when Grand-Am had the rules? The cars were still slower then the GTE class so the "adjustments" made are hardly noticeable. Also, Ferrari and Audi were the only two makes to actually make Grand-Am Specific cars so the only teams that had any "costly" work to change over were Turner Motorsports and the Viper Team. Besides, Both of them look way better this season anyhow.

I didnt say a damn thing about the GA GT car,but since you did that was stupid idea 1.0,current GTD is the upgraded version 2.0.

You forgot about Aston BTW.

 

[RACECAR]

I didnt say a damn thing about the GA GT car,but since you did that was stupid idea 1.0,current GTD is the upgraded version 2.0.

And I didn't say you did, I pointed out to you that the regs were made by Grand-Am and Not IMSA as you implied, which were to keep the Tube-Frame GT cars competitive with the new GT3 based cars. IMSA simply slightly patched GTD to accommodate the Viper and BMW as well as to keep the Porsche teams competitive and keep them below GTLM (which is abit questionable considering they never were outright faster then a GTE spec car anyway, but whateves).

2016 is when the actual 2.0 Comes out

You forgot about Aston BTW.

The TRG Astons were abit of a partial entry in Grand Am so the few races they did, they hardly made a dent. Obviously, that changed once they became season regulars in 2014.

 

[IforceV8]

Grand Am/IMSA/NASCAR-they are all the same thing to me.

 

[cnd01]

The IMSA GTD spec ripped out the ABS and TC. Which completely changes the car since they were constructed to be used with those in place.

Not a tough swap. Just an ECU.

Ah yes, another episode of "DHH 🤬 on twitter" currently.

I realize it's a legitimate concern he's bringing up.. driver safety in regards to the driver changes and belts being secured properly, but does this guy ever not have anything negative to say?

Anything and everything out of his mouth is negativity and a waste of time reading.

Why would anybody with a brain be happy with this?

Because race car drivers are grown men and women who can make conscious decisions for themselves regarding personal safety just like any professional in any other field.

 

[RACECAR]

Grand Am/IMSA/NASCAR-they are all the same thing to me.

Here's the issue you aren't getting:

Your post seemed to imply that those GT rules were made specifically for the merger (IMSA) when they are simply adjustments of a rules package that existed since 2011 (Grand-Am).

Also, Grand-Am and all its personel are gone. The Current IMSA is the former ALMS crew so again, not the same.

 

[cnd01]

@RACECAR don't let facts get in the way of blaming NASCAR for everything the ALMS/IMSA guys screwed up because ISC bought them out. We all know everything to blame in sports car racing today is all because NASCAR has to make sure its DPs win and there's a green-white-checkerd finish every race. It doesn't matter if the same people who killed the ALMS are in charge now

That you're spot on. 👍 If we had seperate fueling and tires it'd help with this...in a way. They should be tightened before the car starts rolling.

Drivers tighten them either way on track whether they're tightened or not before. That's what pretty boy DHH conveniently doesn't say

 

[RACECAR]

I'm just gonna say this:

I'll take a US based Sportscar series with multiple classes AT ALL then have next to none at all (even if it means having morons with more money then talent since unfortunately, even F1 can't escape this problem).

 

[IforceV8]

Here's the issue you aren't getting:

Your post seemed to imply that those GT rules were made specifically for the merger (IMSA) when they are simply adjustments of a rules package that existed since 2011 (Grand-Am).

Also, Grand-Am and all its personel are gone. The Current IMSA is the former ALMS crew so again, not the same.

Did they have a chance to fix the rules in 2013,yes, did they,no. Call it whatever you want the fact is that IMSA (re)wrote a set of rules for the GTD class that sucked and have since seen the flood of new GT3 cars entering the PWC and have fixed the rules for 2016.

The cars will be cheaper since they wont have to be modified and they will be easier to drive since they will have the downforce they were originally designed to have.

 

[RACECAR]

Did they have a chance to fix the rules in 2013,yes, did they,no. Call it whatever you want the fact is that IMSA (re)wrote a set of rules for the GTD class that sucked and have since seen the flood of new GT3 cars entering the PWC and have fixed the rules for 2016.

You seem to have missed the part where in 2013, not all the cars in class were GT3 Machinery (like the are now, minus the Porsches) so just letting full spec GT3 cars in would have left behind those still running tube frame GT cars. I get it, you hate the GTD rules but your displeasure reeks of NASCAR hate (which is unnecessary considering the only thing they control is the ownership and that's it).

Another fact you appear to have missed is that while it wasn't exactly the same way, PWC also didn't initially have the GT3 cars in full spec either (otherwise, the Cadillac CTS-V wouldn't have had any chance against them) and only last year did they manage to do so.

At the end of the day in spite of all this, we still have a American Sports car series with ACO spec cars in it. Its either that or nothing AT ALL.

The cars will be cheaper since they wont have to be modified and they will be easier to drive since they will have the downforce they were originally designed to have.

Again, this "Cost" issue is a myth. All the adjustments to fit in GTD are simply bolt on and bolt off (again, refer to the Z4 GT3). The Audi itself is another example of bolt on and off parts as is the Aston Martin and Viper.

 

[IforceV8]

You seem to have missed the part where in 2013, not all the cars in class were GT3 Machinery (like the are now, minus the Porsches) so just letting full spec GT3 cars in would have left behind those still running tube frame GT cars

My reference to 2013 was regarding the press release I linked before from July'13, it has nothing to do with the GA GT class.

I get it, you hate the GTD rules but your displeasure reeks of NASCAR hate (which is unnecessary considering the only thing they control is the ownership and that's it).

Hate is a strong word,but is I can live with it.

Another fact you appear to have missed is that while it wasn't exactly the same way, PWC also didn't initially have the GT3 cars in full spec either (otherwise, the Cadillac CTS-V wouldn't have had any chance against them) and only last year did they manage to do so.

Please provide the specific BOP changes the WC made to the GT3 cars starting in 2013 since you brought it up. I only said the GT3 class had a flood of new entries.

Again, this "Cost" issue is a myth. All the adjustments to fit in GTD are simply bolt on and bolt off (again, refer to the Z4 GT3). The Audi itself is another example of bolt on and off parts as is the Aston Martin and Viper.

Who paid for those IMSA specific parts? Who pays for the labor needed to make the changes to the car? T&M $$$

At the end of the day in spite of all this, we still have a American Sports car series with ACO spec cars in it. Its either that or nothing AT ALL.

Time will tell on that.

 

[RACECAR]

Please provide the specific BOP changes the WC made to the GT3 cars starting in 2013 since you brought it up. I only said the GT3 class had a flood of new entries.

There is no "GT3" class in WC, just the GT class opened up to GT3 cars but with some changes, one of which included the exact same regulation that disabled traction control (which actually caused the cars to not have their tires heat up quickly).

Who paid for those IMSA specific parts? Who pays for the labor needed to make the changes to the car? T&M $$$

When I say its a myth, I'm reffering to this idea of yours that its somehow going to be "cheaper" to run the cars as regular GT3 cars when as Turner Motorsports proved, it was very simple and was hardly as expensive as you seemed to make it. You made it sound like buying some bolt on parts was a massive expense when it wasn't.

Time will tell on that.

Unless you know that GTLM is about to be removed , I'm pretty sure that's going nowhere. LMP2 isn't the only ACO spec cars you know.

 

[IforceV8]

There is no "GT3" class in WC, just the GT class opened up to GT3 cars but with some changes, one of which included the exact same regulation that disabled traction control (which actually caused the cars to not have their tires heat up quickly).

When 26 of the 28 cars entered for Mosport and Detroit in GT and GT-A are GT3 cars, the class is GT3. Regarding the TC I think the issue with the GT3 cars is the lack of a launch control system which required the tweaking of the TC.

Unless you know that GTLM is about to be removed , I'm pretty sure that's going nowhere. LMP2 isn't the only ACO spec cars you know.

Removed no, but car count could be a issue for GTLM next year. Falken,Porsche,and BMW are all question marks next year. We think Ford will run 2 cars but to my knowledge that has not been confirmed by Ford or Ganassi. I would bet that Chip and Ford are at Le Mans announcing the 2016 Ford GT program.